Been on the internet long before these new data centers came along.

Prophet00 said:

---

I'm guessing he means closed loop evaporative vs. closed loop air chilled? With the air chilled systems, after filling it, the annual loss is basically zero, isn't it?

---

Yes, we don't do the evaporative. Only air cooled. Once we close it up that is it. There will be times of maintenance.

Urban Country Boy said:

---

Prophet00 said:

---

I'm guessing he means closed loop evaporative vs. closed loop air chilled? With the air chilled systems, after filling it, the annual loss is basically zero, isn't it?

---

Yes, we don't do the evaporative. Only air cooled. Once we close it up that is it. There will be times of maintenance.

---

So you don't lose any water due to periodic blow down to reduce scaling?

Jbob04 said:

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Been on the internet long before these new data centers came along.

---

Ha! No. You really think that? They were smaller, yes. But your Internet ran through them. You really can't believe there were no data centers until now? It is about scale and demand.

Burdizzo said:

---

Urban Country Boy said:

---

Prophet00 said:

---

I'm guessing he means closed loop evaporative vs. closed loop air chilled? With the air chilled systems, after filling it, the annual loss is basically zero, isn't it?

---

Yes, we don't do the evaporative. Only air cooled. Once we close it up that is it. There will be times of maintenance.

---

So you don't lose any water due to periodic blow down to reduce scaling?

---

Just stop. How does that compare to evaporative cooling? Please show your calculations.

The overwhelming majority of new hyperscale data centers are being built to handle the compute capacity necessary for AI. When I got into the data center industry 20 years ago, the power capacity required for the average server rack was about 5KW. Now it's about 50KW, with the maximum topping out between 100-150KW. Back then, a data center with 5,000 racks was massive. Now we're seeing complexes with 8-10 buildings at 5,000 racks each. It's a totally different ballgame now.

Aggie Dad Sip said:

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The overwhelming majority of new hyperscale data centers are being built to handle the compute capacity necessary for AI. When I got into the data center industry 20 years ago, the power capacity required for the average server rack was about 5KW. Now it's about 50KW, with the maximum topping out between 100-150KW. Back then, a data center with 5,000 racks was massive. Now we're seeing complexes with 8-10 buildings at 5,000 racks each. It's a totally different ballgame now.

---

Yep, What he said.

What make me laugh are the people online saying how bad data centers are, as they post on sites, here, Instagram, Facebook, Tik Tok, X, Youtube, etc. Clueless. You can disconnect in protest. Ha! No you can't.

Urban Country Boy said:

---

Burdizzo said:

---

Urban Country Boy said:

---

Prophet00 said:

---

I'm guessing he means closed loop evaporative vs. closed loop air chilled? With the air chilled systems, after filling it, the annual loss is basically zero, isn't it?

---

Yes, we don't do the evaporative. Only air cooled. Once we close it up that is it. There will be times of maintenance.

---

So you don't lose any water due to periodic blow down to reduce scaling?

---

Just stop. How does that compare to evaporative cooling? Please show your calculations.

---

Blowdown water is less than evaporative cooling, but it is not zero.

Is that a correct statement?

Urban Country Boy said:

---

What make me laugh are the people online saying how bad data centers are, as they post on sites, here, Instagram, Facebook, Tik Tok, X, Youtube, etc. Clueless. You can disconnect in protest. Ha! No you can't.

---

@grok are data centers bad?

Urban Country Boy said:

---

What make me laugh are the people online saying how bad data centers are, as they post on sites, here, Instagram, Facebook, Tik Tok, X, Youtube, etc. Clueless. You can disconnect in protest. Ha! No you can't.

---

And yet as another poster noted earlier, I've been using the internet since the 90's. And strangely enough, it has never been necessary to destroy farms, and ranches, and rural communities to stay online.

It's only with the new generation of ai… for students who are too lazy to write their own papers, and employees who are too lazy to return their own emails, and nerds with their imaginary ai girlfriends… that the need to destroy rural communities became a thing.

So if you need that imaginary ai girlfriend that bad, build your crap in industrial areas where they are not destroying farm and ranch land, and the quality of life of rural communities.

Urban Country Boy said:

---

Burdizzo said:

---

Urban Country Boy said:

---

Prophet00 said:

---

I'm guessing he means closed loop evaporative vs. closed loop air chilled? With the air chilled systems, after filling it, the annual loss is basically zero, isn't it?

---

Yes, we don't do the evaporative. Only air cooled. Once we close it up that is it. There will be times of maintenance.

---

So you don't lose any water due to periodic blow down to reduce scaling?

---

Just stop. How does that compare to evaporative cooling? Please show your calculations.

---

AI = Artificial Irrigation?

IIIHorn said:

---

Urban Country Boy said:

---

Burdizzo said:

---

Urban Country Boy said:

---

Prophet00 said:

---

I'm guessing he means closed loop evaporative vs. closed loop air chilled? With the air chilled systems, after filling it, the annual loss is basically zero, isn't it?

---

Yes, we don't do the evaporative. Only air cooled. Once we close it up that is it. There will be times of maintenance.

---

So you don't lose any water due to periodic blow down to reduce scaling?

---

Just stop. How does that compare to evaporative cooling? Please show your calculations.

---

AI = Artificial Irrigation?

---

A friend of mine who went to another school as an undergrad in the early to mid 1970s was talking to other math and computer people in his dorm room about their university getting an AI program one evening. The more they talked, the madder his roommate go. He finally opened up and said that if anyone was going to get an AI program, it should be the animal science department, not science and/or engineering.

AI = Artificial Insemination

Burdizzo said:

---

Urban Country Boy said:

---

Burdizzo said:

---

Urban Country Boy said:

---

Prophet00 said:

---

I'm guessing he means closed loop evaporative vs. closed loop air chilled? With the air chilled systems, after filling it, the annual loss is basically zero, isn't it?

---

Yes, we don't do the evaporative. Only air cooled. Once we close it up that is it. There will be times of maintenance.

---

So you don't lose any water due to periodic blow down to reduce scaling?

---

Just stop. How does that compare to evaporative cooling? Please show your calculations.

---

Blowdown water is less than evaporative cooling, but it is not zero.

Is that a correct statement?

---

In a closed loop cooling system you don't need any blowdown. Usually a glycol solution (like in your car's radiator) is used to prevent scaling. Occasionally some water will need to be made up to replace water lost to leakage but that will be minimal.

Closed loop systems can't achieve temperatures as low as evaporative systems and the difference can be as much as 25 degrees in low humidity environments. I don't know how important that is for data centers.

McInnis said:

---

Burdizzo said:

---

Urban Country Boy said:

---

Burdizzo said:

---

Urban Country Boy said:

---

Prophet00 said:

---

I'm guessing he means closed loop evaporative vs. closed loop air chilled? With the air chilled systems, after filling it, the annual loss is basically zero, isn't it?

---

Yes, we don't do the evaporative. Only air cooled. Once we close it up that is it. There will be times of maintenance.

---

So you don't lose any water due to periodic blow down to reduce scaling?

---

Just stop. How does that compare to evaporative cooling? Please show your calculations.

---

Blowdown water is less than evaporative cooling, but it is not zero.

Is that a correct statement?

---

In a closed loop cooling system you don't need any blowdown. Usually a glycol solution (like in your car's radiator) is used to prevent scaling. Occasionally some water will need to be made up to replace water lost to leakage but that will be minimal.

Closed loop systems can't achieve temperatures as low as evaporative systems and the difference can be as much as 25 degrees in low humidity environments. I don't know how important that is for data centers.

---

The solution in those cases is usually to increase the footprint to increase the computing power which also means more electricity, but since I don't design these things for a living I probably don't know what I am talking about. I only provide consulting services to some of the utilities providing service to them.

eric76 said:

---

IIIHorn said:

---

Urban Country Boy said:

---

Burdizzo said:

---

Urban Country Boy said:

---

Prophet00 said:

---

I'm guessing he means closed loop evaporative vs. closed loop air chilled? With the air chilled systems, after filling it, the annual loss is basically zero, isn't it?

---

Yes, we don't do the evaporative. Only air cooled. Once we close it up that is it. There will be times of maintenance.

---

So you don't lose any water due to periodic blow down to reduce scaling?

---

Just stop. How does that compare to evaporative cooling? Please show your calculations.

---

AI = Artificial Irrigation?

---

A friend of mine who went to another school as an undergrad in the early to mid 1970s was talking to other math and computer people in his dorm room about their university getting an AI program one evening. The more they talked, the madder his roommate go. He finally opened up and said that if anyone was going to get an AI program, it should be the animal science department, not science and/or engineering.

AI = Artificial Insemination

---

Artificial insinuation?

Urban Country Boy said:

---

What make me laugh are the people online saying how bad data centers are, as they post on sites, here, Instagram, Facebook, Tik Tok, X, Youtube, etc. Clueless. You can disconnect in protest. Ha! No you can't.

---

I know dick about how they work but it would behoove your industry to do some education of the public if the newest gen doesn't suck water. Right now most of the public perceives them as just another massive burden on the residential water supply. And perception is reality.

That's just one aspect. Convincing the public the water is not an issue but then winning hearts and minds on all of the other issues with them is a separate matter...light pollution, noise pollution, physical eyesore.

SunrayAg said:

---

Urban Country Boy said:

---

What make me laugh are the people online saying how bad data centers are, as they post on sites, here, Instagram, Facebook, Tik Tok, X, Youtube, etc. Clueless. You can disconnect in protest. Ha! No you can't.

---

And yet as another poster noted earlier, I've been using the internet since the 90's. And strangely enough, it has never been necessary to destroy farms, and ranches, and rural communities to stay online.

It's only with the new generation of ai… for students who are too lazy to write their own papers, and employees who are too lazy to return their own emails, and nerds with their imaginary ai girlfriends… that the need to destroy rural communities became a thing.

So if you need that imaginary ai girlfriend that bad, build your crap in industrial areas where they are not destroying farm and ranch land, and the quality of life of rural communities.

---

Destroying farms and ranches and rural communities? How are these centers doing this any faster than all other industrial ventures?

You are using the language of the Thunbergs.

SunrayAg said:

---

Urban Country Boy said:

---

What make me laugh are the people online saying how bad data centers are, as they post on sites, here, Instagram, Facebook, Tik Tok, X, Youtube, etc. Clueless. You can disconnect in protest. Ha! No you can't.

---

And yet as another poster noted earlier, I've been using the internet since the 90's. And strangely enough, it has never been necessary to destroy farms, and ranches, and rural communities to stay online.

It's only with the new generation of ai… for students who are too lazy to write their own papers, and employees who are too lazy to return their own emails, and nerds with their imaginary ai girlfriends… that the need to destroy rural communities became a thing.

So if you need that imaginary ai girlfriend that bad, build your crap in industrial areas where they are not destroying farm and ranch land, and the quality of life of rural communities.

---

I really hope this a troll post. Or
You're 70+.

Go be the guy that never wanted to adopt email this time but is going to be 100x faster adoption.


For the record. I wish it wasn't here. But it is. And not going away.

Burdizzo said:

---

Urban Country Boy said:

---

Prophet00 said:

---

I'm guessing he means closed loop evaporative vs. closed loop air chilled? With the air chilled systems, after filling it, the annual loss is basically zero, isn't it?

---

Yes, we don't do the evaporative. Only air cooled. Once we close it up that is it. There will be times of maintenance.

---

So you don't lose any water due to periodic blow down to reduce scaling?

---

Either you're part of the solution or part of the precipitate.

WestHoustonAg79 said:

---

SunrayAg said:

---

Urban Country Boy said:

---

What make me laugh are the people online saying how bad data centers are, as they post on sites, here, Instagram, Facebook, Tik Tok, X, Youtube, etc. Clueless. You can disconnect in protest. Ha! No you can't.

---

And yet as another poster noted earlier, I've been using the internet since the 90's. And strangely enough, it has never been necessary to destroy farms, and ranches, and rural communities to stay online.

It's only with the new generation of ai… for students who are too lazy to write their own papers, and employees who are too lazy to return their own emails, and nerds with their imaginary ai girlfriends… that the need to destroy rural communities became a thing.

So if you need that imaginary ai girlfriend that bad, build your crap in industrial areas where they are not destroying farm and ranch land, and the quality of life of rural communities.

---

I really hope this a troll post. Or
You're 70+.

Go be the guy that never wanted to adopt email this time but is going to be 100x faster adoption.


For the record. I wish it wasn't here. But it is. And not going away.

---

I'm not sure what exactly I'm supposed to be trolling about?

I mean, i have been on the internet since the 90's, and I have never seen farms and ranches destroyed for data centers until the last year or two. So what is trolling about pointing that fact out?

I believe it is also a truthful statement that AI technology is for people who are too intellectually lazy to do their own work. I still write 100% of my own reports, and would never trust a bot to do it for me. Again, not sure what i'm supposed to be trolling about. Just stating the truth.

And the fact that I own land in a rural area that has been farmed and ranched by my family for well over a century... Why should I be bothered that a huge company is doing cloak and dagger **** in the shadows, trying to put an 1100 acre data center right down the road. I'm sure my family will love the constant humming sound 24/7/365. Im sure it will be so wonderful when our starry sky is drowned out by the light pollution. And when all of the wildlife starts going away because of the noise and the lights, I mean who needs deer anyway, right? And I'm so looking forward to our residential wells going dry because the data center drills a little bit deeper. And when the families who have been in the area for generations discover that they don't want to live next to that garbage... and sell out and start moving away... the rural community is no more.

But, yeah, tell me more about how I'm trolling.

The fight over where the data center is, what livestock it displaces, what water it uses, what noise and light polution it makes etc is the fight worth having. These will get built, designs are out there for space, ocean floor, rural Texas (for example)...everything is fair game.

Dismissing the need for it entirely is where the troll accusation probably comes from.

I'm sure you're being genuine.

90s internet was basically a Piper Cub. You could land it on a pasture, no big deal. Today's internet is a 747. Needs a real runway, fuel, tower, ground crew, the whole nine yards. You can't park a 747 on a hayfield no matter how mad you are about it.

Nobody pulls up to Bush Intercontinental and complains that their granddaddy flew an Aeronca off the back forty in 1958 without all this infrastructure, so today's pilots must just be lazy and should fly out of an industrial park. That'd be ridiculous. But it's the same shape of argument.

All the stuff you're referencing already had the infrastructure built for it for the last 15+ years. Google's been putting hyperscale data centers on rural land since 2006 (The Dalles, OR). Microsoft Quincy WA in 2007. Apple in NC around 2010. Facebook in Oregon 2011. All before chatgpt was a thing. AI is just the newest plane in the sky, airport was already built.

What's next isn't a bigger plane, it's more like every person in the country deciding they gotta fly somewhere new every hour of every day. The scaling problem isn't "bigger plane," it's a thousand flights a day going to a hundred million.

Sims said:

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The fight over where the data center is, what livestock it displaces, what water it uses, what noise and light polution it makes etc is the fight worth having. These will get built, designs are out there for space, ocean floor, rural Texas (for example)...everything is fair game.

Dismissing the need for it entirely is where the troll accusation probably comes from.

I'm sure you're being genuine.

90s internet was basically a Piper Cub. You could land it on a pasture, no big deal. Today's internet is a 747. Needs a real runway, fuel, tower, ground crew, the whole nine yards. You can't park a 747 on a hayfield no matter how mad you are about it.

Nobody pulls up to Bush Intercontinental and complains that their granddaddy flew an Aeronca off the back forty in 1958 without all this infrastructure, so today's pilots must just be lazy and should fly out of an industrial park. That'd be ridiculous. But it's the same shape of argument.

All the stuff you're referencing already had the infrastructure built for it for the last 15+ years. Google's been putting hyperscale data centers on rural land since 2006 (The Dalles, OR). Microsoft Quincy WA in 2007. Apple in NC around 2010. Facebook in Oregon 2011. All before chatgpt was a thing. AI is just the newest plane in the sky, airport was already built.

What's next isn't a bigger plane, it's more like every person in the country deciding they gotta fly somewhere new every hour of every day. The scaling problem isn't "bigger plane," it's a thousand flights a day going to a hundred million.

---

Well said.

techno-ag said:

---

Sims said:

---

The fight over where the data center is, what livestock it displaces, what water it uses, what noise and light polution it makes etc is the fight worth having. These will get built, designs are out there for space, ocean floor, rural Texas (for example)...everything is fair game.

Dismissing the need for it entirely is where the troll accusation probably comes from.

I'm sure you're being genuine.

90s internet was basically a Piper Cub. You could land it on a pasture, no big deal. Today's internet is a 747. Needs a real runway, fuel, tower, ground crew, the whole nine yards. You can't park a 747 on a hayfield no matter how mad you are about it.

Nobody pulls up to Bush Intercontinental and complains that their granddaddy flew an Aeronca off the back forty in 1958 without all this infrastructure, so today's pilots must just be lazy and should fly out of an industrial park. That'd be ridiculous. But it's the same shape of argument.

All the stuff you're referencing already had the infrastructure built for it for the last 15+ years. Google's been putting hyperscale data centers on rural land since 2006 (The Dalles, OR). Microsoft Quincy WA in 2007. Apple in NC around 2010. Facebook in Oregon 2011. All before chatgpt was a thing. AI is just the newest plane in the sky, airport was already built.

What's next isn't a bigger plane, it's more like every person in the country deciding they gotta fly somewhere new every hour of every day. The scaling problem isn't "bigger plane," it's a thousand flights a day going to a hundred million.

---

Well said.

---

Bingo. We won't stop them but we can regulate the ever loving dog **** out of them until they are not practical to build or they are like living next to a silent white building.

Whatever it is, local governments and operators better get their **** together quick. I know where I am, people are pissed. I'm seeing images sent by folks I know of things INSIDE the properties that I don't even know how they got access to including drone footage, and random drive throughs during build. If they can get access to crucial operating infrastructure during build or completion, seems like a good way to lose a data center to a pissed off neighbor.

"Bingo. We won't stop them but we can regulate the ever loving dog **** out of them until they are not practical to build or they are like living next to a silent white building."

This is precisely what Obama said about coal.

SunrayAg said:

---

Urban Country Boy said:

---

What make me laugh are the people online saying how bad data centers are, as they post on sites, here, Instagram, Facebook, Tik Tok, X, Youtube, etc. Clueless. You can disconnect in protest. Ha! No you can't.

---

And yet as another poster noted earlier, I've been using the internet since the 90's. And strangely enough, it has never been necessary to destroy farms, and ranches, and rural communities to stay online.

It's only with the new generation of ai… for students who are too lazy to write their own papers, and employees who are too lazy to return their own emails, and nerds with their imaginary ai girlfriends… that the need to destroy rural communities became a thing.

So if you need that imaginary ai girlfriend that bad, build your crap in industrial areas where they are not destroying farm and ranch land, and the quality of life of rural communities.

---

I'm assuming you are from Sunday given your username. I'm from Canyon. Small towns have been dying LONG before data centers. A bigger problems are estate taxes (kids have to sell the land), increases in the cost of land( people moving out of cities and rich entities buying up land, like Gates and other family offices/PE), and frankly the kids that don't want the rural life. I've lived in several small towns in Texas. My dad grew up in small town Montana. This is a story that has been happening for decades.

Im not the biggest proponent of AI, but saying it doesn't have any economic value is wrong.

I picked my site because they best fit my belief. I had to have the closed loop. The site did not disrupt any neighborhood. No farm land was used. I wrote two papers on the "Ethics of Engineering" while at TAMU. It matters.

Sims said:

---

The fight over where the data center is, what livestock it displaces, what water it uses, what noise and light polution it makes etc is the fight worth having. These will get built, designs are out there for space, ocean floor, rural Texas (for example)...everything is fair game.

Dismissing the need for it entirely is where the troll accusation probably comes from.

I'm sure you're being genuine.

90s internet was basically a Piper Cub. You could land it on a pasture, no big deal. Today's internet is a 747. Needs a real runway, fuel, tower, ground crew, the whole nine yards. You can't park a 747 on a hayfield no matter how mad you are about it.

Nobody pulls up to Bush Intercontinental and complains that their granddaddy flew an Aeronca off the back forty in 1958 without all this infrastructure, so today's pilots must just be lazy and should fly out of an industrial park. That'd be ridiculous. But it's the same shape of argument.

All the stuff you're referencing already had the infrastructure built for it for the last 15+ years. Google's been putting hyperscale data centers on rural land since 2006 (The Dalles, OR). Microsoft Quincy WA in 2007. Apple in NC around 2010. Facebook in Oregon 2011. All before chatgpt was a thing. AI is just the newest plane in the sky, airport was already built.

What's next isn't a bigger plane, it's more like every person in the country deciding they gotta fly somewhere new every hour of every day. The scaling problem isn't "bigger plane," it's a thousand flights a day going to a hundred million.

---

another city slicker telling us country folk it's no big deal. Cool

I'd be willing to bet I had covered more of lake limestone by the time I was 10 years old than you have since you bought your lake property there, but that's just a guess...but you go on picking fights at the exact time you need to gain support.

Squadron7 said:

---

"Bingo. We won't stop them but we can regulate the ever loving dog **** out of them until they are not practical to build or they are like living next to a silent white building."

This is precisely what Obama said about coal.

---

Great! Let's get it going! Are you saying I need to stop voting republican and vote for a democrat in order to get the right people for the job? Not a problem, I can make that happen.

Been to Quincy, WA too.

When I went there in 2020, I thought, there's no way in hell I'm ever coming back here. But, 3 months later, I was right back there.

Quincy had two places to eat - Subway and McDonald's.

The data center I worked in was large but the Yahoo one was ridiculous. I think the other one was Google. It's been a minute.

Anyway, sure they took up a lot of farmland but, there was plenty more.

As far as jobs, there was - security guard, reception and the loading dock and that was about it.

reineraggie09 said:

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SunrayAg said:

---

Urban Country Boy said:

---

What make me laugh are the people online saying how bad data centers are, as they post on sites, here, Instagram, Facebook, Tik Tok, X, Youtube, etc. Clueless. You can disconnect in protest. Ha! No you can't.

---

And yet as another poster noted earlier, I've been using the internet since the 90's. And strangely enough, it has never been necessary to destroy farms, and ranches, and rural communities to stay online.

It's only with the new generation of ai… for students who are too lazy to write their own papers, and employees who are too lazy to return their own emails, and nerds with their imaginary ai girlfriends… that the need to destroy rural communities became a thing.

So if you need that imaginary ai girlfriend that bad, build your crap in industrial areas where they are not destroying farm and ranch land, and the quality of life of rural communities.

---

I'm assuming you are from Sunday given your username. I'm from Canyon. Small towns have been dying LONG before data centers. A bigger problems are estate taxes (kids have to sell the land), increases in the cost of land( people moving out of cities and rich entities buying up land, like Gates and other family offices/PE), and frankly the kids that don't want the rural life. I've lived in several small towns in Texas. My dad grew up in small town Montana. This is a story that has been happening for decades.

Im not the biggest proponent of AI, but saying it doesn't have any economic value is wrong.

---

SunrayAg can correct me if I'm stating this poorly, but Sunray has neither grown nor shrunk materially for decades. It is a small farming community.

Any significant economic value, other than the landowners that sold their property for the plant, will be realized by Amarillo & Dumas.

SunrayAg stated a valid concern.

Sims said:

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I'd be willing to bet I had covered more of lake limestone by the time I was 10 years old than you have since you bought your lake property there, but that's just a guess...but you go on picking fights at the exact time you need to gain support.

---

Nope. Born and raised there and I don't live on the lake. Live close to it in the middle of 100 acres. Part of my land has been in my family since the 1850's.