Everyone is familiar with NIMBY, but how many are familiar with BANANA?

Build Absolute Nothing Anywhere Near Anything

eric76 said:

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Everyone is familiar with NIMBY, but how many are familiar with BANANA?

Build Absolute Nothing Anywhere Near Anything

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I like that. Let's do it. I know lazy ass people that want an HEB 15 minutes form them because they can't get their lazy asses to the one that's 25 minutes away.

Stop building anything anywhere and I bet peoples financial and obesity situations would be improved too.

WestAustinAg said:

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Jbob04 said:

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You must live in the city where these aren't being built. Us country folks don't want them.

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If you want the US to remain #1 in its economy, its military power and still have jobs you will learn to like them.

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According to the Google, the majority of the new data centers that people complain about are being built in rural areas. Like many things, that makes sense.

Besides, if it's a problem - move. Problem solved.

That is dumb as ****

Jbob04 said:

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That is dumb as ****

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But was any of it a lie?

Telling people to move is stupid. I'm sure you are a city slicker and don't own **** so it doesn't matter you.

Gibbons Creek used to be a lignite coal plant. They literally removed dirt, dug out the lignite and burned it. For decades. Whatever Elon wants to do with it will be a much better choice than leaving it vacant.

This thread is about data centers not chip plants

Jbob04 said:

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Telling people to move is stupid. I'm sure you are a city slicker and don't own **** so it doesn't matter you.

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No. People have to deal with situations they don't like that are happening where they live all the time. It's called living in a world that constantly evolves, usually because there's money to be made from it.

That's life. Deal with it. I guarantee we all have ancestors that dealt with similar or worse that caused them to move.

No Spin Ag said:

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Jbob04 said:

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Telling people to move is stupid. I'm sure you are a city slicker and don't own **** so it doesn't matter you.

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No. People have to deal with situations they don't like that are happening where they live all the time. It's called living in a world that constantly evolves, usually because there's money to be made from it.

That's life. Deal with it. I guarantee we all have ancestors that dealt with similar or worse that caused them to move.

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My ancestors moved out of Germany in the mid-1880s because the place went to shift. They sailed on a boat for a couple of months to a new continent only to find the place they moved to was probably different from what they were led to believe. Many on this board have the same background. But God forbid they move.

SMM48 said:

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Folks always assume it's drinking water. It's not.

Potable water is preferred for cooling .

Also water usage is extremely small compared to overall water usage. The demand is growing

So the concern is real but the framing is bad.

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You do understand that potable water is drinking water, correct?

Yes, water usage of data centers compared to overall water usage is pretty miniscule. But that's also akin to saying that one garbage dump is pretty miniscule compared to the amount of garbage produced overall.

It is about where the centers are located as much as anything, and what the local ecosystem conditions are. I don't care what it is like in Oregon when I'm talking about a data center in my back yard in Texas.

Burdizzo said:

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Fightin_Aggie said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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The water use thing has been overblown. The energy use is a different matter. The thing is that a lot of these data centers want to have their energy use behind the meter. But it's going to take permitting reform by Congress to get it done. And the issue with that is neither party wants to do something where if they do it, the other side comes out of it looking good as well. So everyone loses with higher utility bills. Yay Congress.

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The water usage is a major issue if you consider that its not just the direct water used by the data centers but also the water used by the electrical generation for the data center.

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Do you have numbers to substantiate what you just posted?

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You do understand that most electrical generation, regardless of where that energy is used, requires a significant amount of cooling water and production water, correct?

FWTXAg said:

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schmellba99 said:

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And if data centers aren't nearly the big deal that some here claim them to be, I want to start seeing them planted in the middle of master planned communities and neighborhoods. I mean, no big deal, right?

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Right. If you don't want a data center next to you, then make sure you own the land you don't want one on.

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Yeah! Because anybody can just go out and buy hundreds and thousands of acres on a whim!

I'm not texags rich, so going out and buying 500+ acres where the proposed data center will be, plus the multiple thousands of acres around it at a cost of multiple millions to hundreds of millions of dollars just doesn't fit in my budget. I know I'm in the minority on this, but here I am.

Good God, the whole "just move, or buy all of the land!" is such a stupid worn out lazy trope.

YouBet said:

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schmellba99 said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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The water use thing has been overblown. The energy use is a different matter. The thing is that a lot of these data centers want to have their energy use behind the meter. But it's going to take permitting reform by Congress to get it done. And the issue with that is neither party wants to do something where if they do it, the other side comes out of it looking good as well. So everyone loses with higher utility bills. Yay Congress.

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No, it really isn't. Especially when most data centers are located in an area that is already overdrawn on water.

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Conflicting info on this as of late. It sounds like the newer designs don't use near the water that older designs may have due to recycling. Still seems like stress on systems that are already at risk due to drought and water shortages which are now happening across most of the country.

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The newer designs don't use as much water as some of the earlier ones, but they still use water.

It's also not just the water, it's everything else about them. They are super awesome when the multiple 10,000kva generators fire up in a power outage or when they do their weekly maintenance cycles. Everybody within a mile or more knows it happens.

FWTXAg said:

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Jbob04 said:

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FWTXAg said:

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schmellba99 said:

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And if data centers aren't nearly the big deal that some here claim them to be, I want to start seeing them planted in the middle of master planned communities and neighborhoods. I mean, no big deal, right?

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Right. If you don't want a data center next to you, then make sure you own the land you don't want one on.

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It's early, but congrats on the dumbest post of the day so far!!

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Congrats on being every bit as Liberal as any Democrat in the world. Private property rights are the foundation of conservatism.

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So if I bought every lot around your house and decided to make a pig farm or turn them into a junkyard, you'd be all for it then huh?

schmellba99 said:

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Burdizzo said:

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Fightin_Aggie said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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The water use thing has been overblown. The energy use is a different matter. The thing is that a lot of these data centers want to have their energy use behind the meter. But it's going to take permitting reform by Congress to get it done. And the issue with that is neither party wants to do something where if they do it, the other side comes out of it looking good as well. So everyone loses with higher utility bills. Yay Congress.

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The water usage is a major issue if you consider that its not just the direct water used by the data centers but also the water used by the electrical generation for the data center.

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Do you have numbers to substantiate what you just posted?

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You do understand that most electrical generation, regardless of where that energy is used, requires a significant amount of cooling water and production water, correct?

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Yes. What is the number? I didn't think that was a hard question.

eric76 said:

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Everyone is familiar with NIMBY, but how many are familiar with BANANA?

Build Absolute Nothing Anywhere Near Anything

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So, is this appeeling or not?

Jbob04 said:

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This thread is about data centers not chip plants

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Cows?

HollywoodBQ said:

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schmellba99 said:

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And if data centers aren't nearly the big deal that some here claim them to be, I want to start seeing them planted in the middle of master planned communities and neighborhoods. I mean, no big deal, right?

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During the dot.com era and subsequent meltdown, I lived in the Master Planned Community of Highlands Ranch, Colorado.

Data centers weren't a big deal then and they were almost always built on inexpensive land along Colorado's Front Range.

Highlands Ranch did a great job of having office spaces, schools, residential, retail, worship spaces and lots of open spaces mixed in.

You could certainly put a data center in the middle of a master planned community like Highlands Ranch however, it wouldn't be a good economic decision. Which is why data centers will continue to pop up in rural areas where land is cheap and they have access to reliable power and can create physical security. It's not like it's a petrochemical plant where a data spill could potentially kill people in the surrounding neighborhoods.

Frankly, I'm not sure what all the uproar is about.

Other than people interacting with their phones and finally figuring out how governments lure in businesses via tax breaks.

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I'm willing to bet that the data centers being built today aren't exactly the same as what you are describing.

Data centers aren't some little unseen building with glass window panes that look like an office building. Significnatly more complex than that, much larger and put a strain on local resources when things aren't planned out carefully. Besides that, they F up the landscape just like stupid ass solar farms and windmills do.

I know it comes as a shock to many, but sometimes people are just tired of the "progress" and don't want massive change being forced on them left and right day in and day out. It doesn't help that a whole lot, if not most, of these types of projects are never advertised and most of the time the public doesn't hear about them until the deal is already done.

It's really easy to talk about how they are no big deal when it isn't your community they are talking about. I get it, until this one popped up in my area I didn't have much thought about them other than sympathising with people that didn't want them in their back yard.

IIIHorn said:

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Jbob04 said:

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This thread is about data centers not chip plants

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Cows?

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Potato


If you want to see a water intensive operation, you should see how much water corn and potato chip manufacturers like Frito Lay disposes of.

BrazosDog02 said:

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eric76 said:

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Everyone is familiar with NIMBY, but how many are familiar with BANANA?

Build Absolute Nothing Anywhere Near Anything

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I like that. Let's do it. I know lazy ass people that want an HEB 15 minutes form them because they can't get their lazy asses to the one that's 25 minutes away.

Stop building anything anywhere and I bet peoples financial and obesity situations would be improved too.

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I ran across the term about 30 or 35 years ago in The Economist.

Burdizzo said:

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IIIHorn said:

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Jbob04 said:

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This thread is about data centers not chip plants

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Cows?

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Potato


If you want to see a water intensive operation, you should see how much water corn and potato chip manufacturers like Frito Lay disposes of.

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I was referring to fertilizer.


Btw ... watch your step when the chips are down.

schmellba99 said:

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HollywoodBQ said:

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schmellba99 said:

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And if data centers aren't nearly the big deal that some here claim them to be, I want to start seeing them planted in the middle of master planned communities and neighborhoods. I mean, no big deal, right?

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During the dot.com era and subsequent meltdown, I lived in the Master Planned Community of Highlands Ranch, Colorado.

Data centers weren't a big deal then and they were almost always built on inexpensive land along Colorado's Front Range.

Highlands Ranch did a great job of having office spaces, schools, residential, retail, worship spaces and lots of open spaces mixed in.

You could certainly put a data center in the middle of a master planned community like Highlands Ranch however, it wouldn't be a good economic decision. Which is why data centers will continue to pop up in rural areas where land is cheap and they have access to reliable power and can create physical security. It's not like it's a petrochemical plant where a data spill could potentially kill people in the surrounding neighborhoods.

Frankly, I'm not sure what all the uproar is about.

Other than people interacting with their phones and finally figuring out how governments lure in businesses via tax breaks.

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I'm willing to bet that the data centers being built today aren't exactly the same as what you are describing.

Data centers aren't some little unseen building with glass window panes that look like an office building. Significnatly more complex than that, much larger and put a strain on local resources when things aren't planned out carefully. Besides that, they F up the landscape just like stupid ass solar farms and windmills do.

I know it comes as a shock to many, but sometimes people are just tired of the "progress" and don't want massive change being forced on them left and right day in and day out. It doesn't help that a whole lot, if not most, of these types of projects are never advertised and most of the time the public doesn't hear about them until the deal is already done.

It's really easy to talk about how they are no big deal when it isn't your community they are talking about. I get it, until this one popped up in my area I didn't have much thought about them other than sympathising with people that didn't want them in their back yard.

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I've done work at Switch multiple times in Vegas and Grand Rapids.

I've seen the pinnacle of modern data centers.

Switch DCs are impressive af. Especially compared to AWS.

One data center used 30 million gallons of water without paying for it.

From https://www.politico.com/news/2026/05/08/georgia-data-centers-water-00909988

Quote:

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The neighbors of a data center in Georgia are steaming after they discovered the facility had sucked up nearly 30 million gallons of water without initially paying for it.

Outrage started bubbling up last year when residents of an affluent subdivision named Annelise Park in Fayetteville, Georgia, noticed their water pressure was unusually low. When the county utility investigated, officials discovered two industrial-scale water hookups feeding a data center campus located 20 miles south of downtown Atlanta. One water connection had been installed without the utility's knowledge, and the other was not linked to the company's account and therefore wasn't being billed.

...

Georgia is home to more than 200 data center facilities and their thirst for water is turning into a political flashpoint. The entire state is experiencing moderate to high levels of drought, and Gov. Brian Kemp declared a state of emergency last month in response to one of Georgia's worst wildfire outbreaks in years.

One resident said frustration with data centers boiled over after local officials told community members to scale back their water usage.

"We get this notification from Fayette County water system saying you need to stop watering your lawns to help conserve water," said James Clifton, an attorney and property rights advocate who obtained and shared the 2025 letter to QTS.

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I posted before but recent WSJ article shared that 61% of the country is experiencing drought. The places that aren't are not data center locations.

Water and water rights are about to be the next big crisis in this country. It's always been an issue in some parts but it's about to get scaled.

Bring on the desalination plants.

That sounds like 1) theft, and 2) negligently bad management by the water utility.


It is also an article from politico. Even they can be factually correct, but they are usually about as biased as Pravda. I am also going to go out on a limb and predict this wasn't because of data center operations. Rather it was the contractor doing the site work to build it

agracer said:

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doubledog said:

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Hank the Grifter said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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The water use thing has been overblown. The energy use is a different matter. The thing is that a lot of these data centers want to have their energy use behind the meter. But it's going to take permitting reform by Congress to get it done. And the issue with that is neither party wants to do something where if they do it, the other side comes out of it looking good as well. So everyone loses with higher utility bills. Yay Congress.

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Can you expand on the water usage concern being overblown? I'm asking sincerely. Because that's the number one issue I see raised with these things. Especially in areas where water scarcity is already a concern.

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Closed loop chilled water cooling systems consume very little water, however they do consume a lot of energy.

https://blog.vantage-dc.com/2026/04/22/cooling-without-the-drain-how-closed-loop-systems-cut-day-to-day-water-use/

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Closed loop systems use water cooled centrifugal chillers which use forced draft cooling towers which use a ton of water. Not many data centers are using air cooled chillers (which use way more energy overall than water cooled centrifugals).

I was at the Trane plant last summer and they were filling orders for 20+ 2,500 Ton machines for a single customer. They aren't using close loop hot side cooling systems for those chillers.

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This is incorrect. Closed loop are just that. Air cooled.

So I am on a hyperscale data center project. One of our buildings is 1/4 mile long. We are using direct to chip cooling. Closed loop. After filling, no water usage, except for maintenance. We don't do evaporated anymore.

Edit: If you want to know anything about hyperscale data centers, ask me. Being in design and construction I think I can answer your questions. I am not involved in the politics.

Urban Country Boy said:

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agracer said:

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doubledog said:

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Hank the Grifter said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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The water use thing has been overblown. The energy use is a different matter. The thing is that a lot of these data centers want to have their energy use behind the meter. But it's going to take permitting reform by Congress to get it done. And the issue with that is neither party wants to do something where if they do it, the other side comes out of it looking good as well. So everyone loses with higher utility bills. Yay Congress.

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Can you expand on the water usage concern being overblown? I'm asking sincerely. Because that's the number one issue I see raised with these things. Especially in areas where water scarcity is already a concern.

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Closed loop chilled water cooling systems consume very little water, however they do consume a lot of energy.

https://blog.vantage-dc.com/2026/04/22/cooling-without-the-drain-how-closed-loop-systems-cut-day-to-day-water-use/

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Closed loop systems use water cooled centrifugal chillers which use forced draft cooling towers which use a ton of water. Not many data centers are using air cooled chillers (which use way more energy overall than water cooled centrifugals).

I was at the Trane plant last summer and they were filling orders for 20+ 2,500 Ton machines for a single customer. They aren't using close loop hot side cooling systems for those chillers.

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This is incorrect. Closed loop are just that. Air cooled.

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Closed loop are not zero water consumption. They are just a lower water consumption than some other cooling system.

Burdizzo said:

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Urban Country Boy said:

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agracer said:

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doubledog said:

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Hank the Grifter said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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The water use thing has been overblown. The energy use is a different matter. The thing is that a lot of these data centers want to have their energy use behind the meter. But it's going to take permitting reform by Congress to get it done. And the issue with that is neither party wants to do something where if they do it, the other side comes out of it looking good as well. So everyone loses with higher utility bills. Yay Congress.

---

Can you expand on the water usage concern being overblown? I'm asking sincerely. Because that's the number one issue I see raised with these things. Especially in areas where water scarcity is already a concern.

---

Closed loop chilled water cooling systems consume very little water, however they do consume a lot of energy.

https://blog.vantage-dc.com/2026/04/22/cooling-without-the-drain-how-closed-loop-systems-cut-day-to-day-water-use/

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Closed loop systems use water cooled centrifugal chillers which use forced draft cooling towers which use a ton of water. Not many data centers are using air cooled chillers (which use way more energy overall than water cooled centrifugals).

I was at the Trane plant last summer and they were filling orders for 20+ 2,500 Ton machines for a single customer. They aren't using close loop hot side cooling systems for those chillers.

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This is incorrect. Closed loop are just that. Air cooled.

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Closed loop are not zero water consumption. They are just a lower water consumption than some other cooling system.

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Explain.

Please, tell me. How much water does a closed loop water to chip system use? Be aware, I design and build these. Now, tell me what you know.

Urban Country Boy said:

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So I am on a hyperscale data center project. One of our buildings is 1/4 mile long. We are using direct to chip cooling. Closed loop. After filling, no water usage, except for maintenance. We don't do evaporated anymore.

Edit: If you want to know anything about hyperscale data centers, ask me. Being in design and construction I think I can answer your questions. I am not involved in the politics.

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I hate data centers and I hope you are out of a job soon.

Jbob04 said:

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Urban Country Boy said:

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So I am on a hyperscale data center project. One of our buildings is 1/4 mile long. We are using direct to chip cooling. Closed loop. After filling, no water usage, except for maintenance. We don't do evaporated anymore.

Edit: If you want to know anything about hyperscale data centers, ask me. Being in design and construction I think I can answer your questions. I am not involved in the politics.

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I hate data centers and I hope you are out of a job soon.

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But you are on the Internet complaining about, well, what you are using.

I'm guessing he means closed loop evaporative vs. closed loop air chilled? With the air chilled systems, after filling it, the annual loss is basically zero, isn't it?