amercer said:

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The Japanese surrendered because we had beaten them back to their home islands, the massive fire bombing, the nukes, AND because Russia was about to invade from the north.

---

I know someone who claims that the only reason we used atomic bombs in Japan was to force their surrender before the Soviet Union could take them. He thinks that Japan rightfully belonged to the Soviet Union and that we stole it from them.

He also thinks that the Soviet Union won World War II and we just provided unnecessary help.

flown-the-coop said:

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SteveA said:

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Quote:

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Japan has entered the chat…

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Well, I guess we can drop some atomic bombs in Iran now. Good thinking.

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Why not?

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We would be the Pariah of the world.

eric76 said:

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Gigem314 said:

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eric76 said:

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Gigem314 said:

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eric76 said:

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Gigem314 said:

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Quote:

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Trump doesn't have the guts to stick it out. He's like the bully on the playground who starts something on the spur of the moment and then cries how unfair it is when his desires don't come to fruition.

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Yes, clearly Iran is the victim of the big mean bully Trump. Iran has never bullied anyone on the playground and cried how unfair it is when someone hits back. Such educated analysis of what's going on in the world.

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There isn't just one bully.

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Yes, there is this case. Iran has bullied Israel and U.S. troops for decades in the ME. They have funded and given aid to terrorist organizations that have murdered innocent civilians and harmed/killed U.S. troops.

The idea that Donald Trump started this fight with Iran shows your complete ignorance of history and what's gone on that region for decades. It's a fight that's been going on via proxy for many years. But because he chose to bomb them, he's the bully on the playground who can't finish anything. Do you even understand how ignorant that sounds?

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Nonsense.

Yeah, we have had issues with Iran over time. But anyone who thinks that we can force regime change by dropping a few bombs on them is an idiot.

If we want regime change, it will take troops on the ground. A lot of troops on the ground.

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No, the issue isn't nonsense. It's a very serious one. And you appear to know very little about it, nor care to. Your primary focus here is opposing Trump, which is shortsighted. You also show your ignorance by assuming regime change was the goal of our actions.

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Please list those countries that bombing without sending in troops has resulted in regime change. Where has that so-called strategy ever worked?

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Please list the quotes from U.S. officials saying regime change was the primary reason we bombed Iran. I'll wait.

eric76 said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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SteveA said:

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Quote:

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Japan has entered the chat…

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Well, I guess we can drop some atomic bombs in Iran now. Good thinking.

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Why not?

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We would be the Pariah of the world.

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We seek to lead the world through strength not popularity.

flown-the-coop said:

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FWTXAg said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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K. Thankfully adults are in charge and not your party.

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K. I don't have a party. People who do are lost little puppies.

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the "I hate everyone and everything party" is still a party.

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It's more like "I hate everyone when a Republican is President but think everyone is overacting when a Democrat is President"

What exit strategy? The war little excursion is already over. We won and the Strait of Hormuz is wide open. Also, Iran no longer has a nuke that they didn't even have after midnight hammer anyway.

So what does the OP even mean?

What objective and agenda Trump is really trying to accomplish?

It probably ultimately boils down to self-aggrandizement.

He satisfied his donors.

DeschutesAg said:

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What objective and agenda Trump is really trying to accomplish?

It probably ultimately boils down to self-aggrandizement.

---

Handling Iran is George Washington level selflessness for Trump. It's a high stakes roll of his 80 years legacy because he is convicted to do the right thing.

Why be so cheap and say he's just being Trump? Take a logical appraisal of the situation and you are not going to arrive at self-aggrandizement.

DeschutesAg said:

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What objective and agenda Trump is really trying to accomplish?

It probably ultimately boils down to self-aggrandizement.

---

How is bombing Iran and risking political clout over military action and higher gas prices "self-aggrandizement"?

flown-the-coop said:

---

DeschutesAg said:

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What objective and agenda Trump is really trying to accomplish?

It probably ultimately boils down to self-aggrandizement.

---

Handling Iran is George Washington level selflessness for Trump. It's a high stakes roll of his 80 years legacy because he is convicted to do the right thing.

Why be so cheap and say he's just being Trump? Take a logical appraisal of the situation and you are not going to arrive at self-aggrandizement.

---

You first.

Gigem314 said:

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DeschutesAg said:

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What objective and agenda Trump is really trying to accomplish?

It probably ultimately boils down to self-aggrandizement.

---

How is bombing Iran and risking political clout over military action and higher gas prices "self-aggrandizement"?

---

Trump is doing what his donors wanted him to do. Nothing more nothing less. He has lost and is trying to salvaged some sort of victory. He didn't risk political clout he lost it all. Trump is going to do what's best for him we know this war wasn't good for Americans so something has to be in it for Trump. Donors paid and we got what we got.

Haleyscomet50 said:

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Gigem314 said:

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DeschutesAg said:

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What objective and agenda Trump is really trying to accomplish?

It probably ultimately boils down to self-aggrandizement.

---

How is bombing Iran and risking political clout over military action and higher gas prices "self-aggrandizement"?

---

Trump is doing what his donors wanted him to do. Nothing more nothing less. He has lost and is trying to salvaged some sort of victory. He didn't risk political clout he lost it all.Trump is going to do what's best for him we know this war wasn't good for Americans so something has to be in it for Trump. Donors paid and we got what we got.

---

He didn't risk it political he just lost it all?!?!?

I assume by that you mean it was stolen from him by IRGC posts, Tehran Tom, MSM and their merry band of drones on the interwebs?

Trump is enjoying an 84% approval rating amongst his supporters, down from 85% this time in 2018. And that's according to CNN.

Man, that one's gotta sting this morning.

AggieVictor10 said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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DeschutesAg said:

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What objective and agenda Trump is really trying to accomplish?

It probably ultimately boils down to self-aggrandizement.

---

Handling Iran is George Washington level selflessness for Trump. It's a high stakes roll of his 80 years legacy because he is convicted to do the right thing.

Why be so cheap and say he's just being Trump? Take a logical appraisal of the situation and you are not going to arrive at self-aggrandizement.

---

You first.

---

Excellent discussion.

I invite you to reread my posts then if you are so inclined you can start a whole thread about how ftc is a know nothing who just slurps orange man drippings day and night. That work for you?

In the interim, try not derailing threads so adults can get on with the discussion. Quit making it about me.

Taking control of Venezuela crude before closing the SOH was planned long before he was in office, if you can't see it then you are blinded by TDS or think like a child.

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/5868335-trump-iran-peace-proposal-backlash/

Interesting article. It discusses the debate going on right now inside Trump circles on the two exit options.

One faction inside the Trump regime and its bmd's think we should make a deal with the current regime.

The other faction is insisting we must keep the blockade and sanction pressure on and continue the threat and use of our military power to force the current regime to collapse or be overthrown, followed by regime change, and the new regime must be a regime we can trust or we won't end the blockade.

flown-the-coop said:

---

Haleyscomet50 said:

---

Gigem314 said:

---

DeschutesAg said:

---

What objective and agenda Trump is really trying to accomplish?

It probably ultimately boils down to self-aggrandizement.

---

How is bombing Iran and risking political clout over military action and higher gas prices "self-aggrandizement"?

---

Trump is doing what his donors wanted him to do. Nothing more nothing less. He has lost and is trying to salvaged some sort of victory. He didn't risk political clout he lost it all.Trump is going to do what's best for him we know this war wasn't good for Americans so something has to be in it for Trump. Donors paid and we got what we got.

---

He didn't risk it political he just lost it all?!?!?

I assume by that you mean it was stolen from him by IRGC posts, Tehran Tom, MSM and their merry band of drones on the interwebs?

Trump is enjoying an 84% approval rating amongst his supporters, down from 85% this time in 2018. And that's according to CNN.

Man, that one's gotta sting this morning.

---

Do you really believe a cnn poll? Ive never believed them. How about we do a poll here a real one of Trump supporters do you think 8/10 support what he has done in Iran?

Haleyscomet50 said:

---

Gigem314 said:

---

DeschutesAg said:

---

What objective and agenda Trump is really trying to accomplish?

It probably ultimately boils down to self-aggrandizement.

---

How is bombing Iran and risking political clout over military action and higher gas prices "self-aggrandizement"?

---

Trump is doing what his donors wanted him to do. Nothing more nothing less. He has lost and is trying to salvaged some sort of victory. He didn't risk political clout he lost it all. Trump is going to do what's best for him we know this war wasn't good for Americans so something has to be in it for Trump. Donors paid and we got what we got.

---

And you actually believe all this?

Saying the United States "lost" by destroying Iran's nuclear facilities, decimating most of their leadership, and weakening their military…is quite the take. And all because Trump's donors wanted it. Maybe it was the aliens that told him to.

Haleyscomet50 said:

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flown-the-coop said:

---

Haleyscomet50 said:

---

Gigem314 said:

---

DeschutesAg said:

---

What objective and agenda Trump is really trying to accomplish?

It probably ultimately boils down to self-aggrandizement.

---

How is bombing Iran and risking political clout over military action and higher gas prices "self-aggrandizement"?

---

Trump is doing what his donors wanted him to do. Nothing more nothing less. He has lost and is trying to salvaged some sort of victory. He didn't risk political clout he lost it all.Trump is going to do what's best for him we know this war wasn't good for Americans so something has to be in it for Trump. Donors paid and we got what we got.

---

He didn't risk it political he just lost it all?!?!?

I assume by that you mean it was stolen from him by IRGC posts, Tehran Tom, MSM and their merry band of drones on the interwebs?

Trump is enjoying an 84% approval rating amongst his supporters, down from 85% this time in 2018. And that's according to CNN.

Man, that one's gotta sting this morning.

---

Do you really believe a cnn poll? Ive never believed them. How about we do a poll here a real one of Trump supporters do you think 8/10 support what he has done in Iran?

---

yes.

DeschutesAg said:

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https://thehill.com/policy/defense/5868335-trump-iran-peace-proposal-backlash/

Interesting article. It discusses the debate going on right now inside Trump circles on the two exit options.

One faction inside the Trump regime and its bmd's think we should make a deal with the current regime.

The other faction is insisting we must keep the blockade and sanction pressure on and continue the threat and use of our military power to force the current regime to collapse or be overthrown, followed by regime change, and the new regime must be a regime we can trust or we won't end the blockade.

---

This isn't two factions in the Trump regime, this is Mark Levin and Hugh Hewitt. The Hill is really scratching the bottom of the oil barrel with that lame arse "reporting".

Haleyscomet50 said:

---

Gigem314 said:

---

DeschutesAg said:

---

What objective and agenda Trump is really trying to accomplish?

It probably ultimately boils down to self-aggrandizement.

---

How is bombing Iran and risking political clout over military action and higher gas prices "self-aggrandizement"?

---

Trump is doing what his donors wanted him to do. Nothing more nothing less. He has lost and is trying to salvaged some sort of victory. He didn't risk political clout he lost it all. Trump is going to do what's best for him we know this war wasn't good for Americans so something has to be in it for Trump. Donors paid and we got what we got.

---

https://www.axios.com/2026/05/06/iran-us-deal-one-page-memo

Quote:

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The White House believes it's getting close to an agreement with Iran on a one-page memorandum of understanding to end the war and set a framework for more detailed nuclear negotiations, according to two U.S. officials and two other sources briefed on the issue.

The big picture: The U.S. expects Iranian responses on several key points in the next 48 hours. Nothing has been agreed yet, but the sources said this was the closest the parties had been to an agreement since the war began.

---

Quote:

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Among other provisions, the deal would involve Iran committing to a moratorium on nuclear enrichment, the U.S. agreeing to lift its sanctions and release billions in frozen Iranian funds, and both sides lifting restrictions around transit through the Strait of Hormuz.

Many of the terms laid out in the memo would be contingent on a final agreement being reached, leaving the possibility of renewed war or an extended limbo in which the hot war has stopped but nothing is truly resolved.

---

Quote:

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Behind the scenes: The one-page, 14-point memorandum of understanding (MOU) is being negotiated between Trump's envoys Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner and several Iranian officials, both directly and through mediators.

---

Quote:

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The duration of the moratorium on uranium enrichment is being actively negotiated, with three sources saying it would be at least 12 years and one putting 15 as a likely landing spot. Iran proposed a 5-year moratorium on enrichment and the U.S. demanded 20.

---

More info is inside the article at the link.

Article from 48 hours ago about what was then the next 48 hours?

Nice!

DeschutesAg said:

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https://www.axios.com/2026/05/06/iran-us-deal-one-page-memo

Quote:

---

The White House believes it's getting close to an agreement with Iran on a one-page memorandum of understanding to end the war and set a framework for more detailed nuclear negotiations, according to two U.S. officials and two other sources briefed on the issue.

The big picture: The U.S. expects Iranian responses on several key points in the next 48 hours. Nothing has been agreed yet, but the sources said this was the closest the parties had been to an agreement since the war began.

---

Quote:

---

Among other provisions, the deal would involve Iran committing to a moratorium on nuclear enrichment, the U.S. agreeing to lift its sanctions and release billions in frozen Iranian funds, and both sides lifting restrictions around transit through the Strait of Hormuz.

Many of the terms laid out in the memo would be contingent on a final agreement being reached, leaving the possibility of renewed war or an extended limbo in which the hot war has stopped but nothing is truly resolved.

---

Quote:

---

Behind the scenes: The one-page, 14-point memorandum of understanding (MOU) is being negotiated between Trump's envoys Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner and several Iranian officials, both directly and through mediators.

---

Quote:

---

The duration of the moratorium on uranium enrichment is being actively negotiated, with three sources saying it would be at least 12 years and one putting 15 as a likely landing spot. Iran proposed a 5-year moratorium on enrichment and the U.S. demanded 20.

---

More info is inside the article at the link.

---

And the enriched uranium they have now? What about that?

Quote:

---

And the enriched uranium they have now? What about that?

---

Iran would have to give it up.

DeschutesAg said:

---

Quote:

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And the enriched uranium they have now? What about that?

---

Iran would have to give it up.

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Yes...

But it wasn't in that "plan" above...

eric76 said:

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amercer said:

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The Japanese surrendered because we had beaten them back to their home islands, the massive fire bombing, the nukes, AND because Russia was about to invade from the north.

---

I know someone who claims that the only reason we used atomic bombs in Japan was to force their surrender before the Soviet Union could take them. He thinks that Japan rightfully belonged to the Soviet Union and that we stole it from them.

He also thinks that the Soviet Union won World War II and we just provided unnecessary help.

---

Your someone who claims that is an ideological, historically ignorant idiot. The Soviets took what they actually could. Pieces of Mongolia and some of the northern, poorly defended Japanese islands....that after we had crushed the Japanese militarily. Beating a defeated, morale crushed, second tier Japanese Kwangtung Army is hardly a measuring stick. After that the Soviets were spent in far East. As far as further conquest went, outside of Eastern Europe the Soviets were nothing. Eastern Europe might have been a real problem, but in the Pacific, we would have butchered them.

DeschutesAg said:

---

What objective and agenda Trump is really trying to accomplish?

It probably ultimately boils down to self-aggrandizement.

---

Here is a reminder on why we got involved. It hasn't changed.

https://www.state.gov/releases/office-of-the-spokesperson/2026/03/secretary-of-state-marco-rubio-remarks-to-press-6/

USA*** said:

---

eric76 said:

---

amercer said:

---

The Japanese surrendered because we had beaten them back to their home islands, the massive fire bombing, the nukes, AND because Russia was about to invade from the north.

---

I know someone who claims that the only reason we used atomic bombs in Japan was to force their surrender before the Soviet Union could take them. He thinks that Japan rightfully belonged to the Soviet Union and that we stole it from them.

He also thinks that the Soviet Union won World War II and we just provided unnecessary help.

---

Your someone who claims that is an ideological, historically ignorant idiot. The Soviets took what they actually could. Pieces of Mongolia and some of the northern, poorly defended Japanese islands....that after we had crushed the Japanese militarily. Beating a defeated, morale crushed, second tier Japanese Kwangtung Army is hardly a measuring stick. After that the Soviets were spent in far East. As far as further conquest went, outside of Eastern Europe the Soviets were nothing. Eastern Europe might have been a real problem, but in the Pacific, we would have butchered them.

---

Yeah.

I have no understanding why he believes those things. His father definitely doesn't agree with him.

In addition to the above, he thinks that we had no right to Hawaii and no right to defend it from the Japanese.

I don't even try to argue with him any more. He just gets ticked off that everyone doesn't agree fully with him.

BusterAg said:

---

DeschutesAg said:

---

What objective and agenda Trump is really trying to accomplish?

It probably ultimately boils down to self-aggrandizement.

---

Here is a reminder on why we got involved. It hasn't changed.

https://www.state.gov/releases/office-of-the-spokesperson/2026/03/secretary-of-state-marco-rubio-remarks-to-press-6/

---

I was speaking to Trump's psychological makeup, his NPD, and his personal motivations. There has clearly been an intermixing of US policy decisions / US goals and his NPD, his business empire objectives, and the growth of his family fortune in his first-term and second-term foreign policy decisions. That is a matter of record. Which brings us back to the question: what are Trump's personal agenda items and motivations in this Iran War? Understand that and you'll understand what exit options he'll accept.

Ditto for Putin in the Ukraine War.

At this point Trump is being played by the Iranians.

He underestimated their ability to shut down the strait and for whatever reason seems incapable of resuming military action.

It appears the resolution will be some half-ass agreement that the Iranians will easily be able to work around.

Iran will be substantially weakened but long term there won't be any materiel difference from the old regime.

DeschutesAg said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

DeschutesAg said:

---

What objective and agenda Trump is really trying to accomplish?

It probably ultimately boils down to self-aggrandizement.

---

Here is a reminder on why we got involved. It hasn't changed.

https://www.state.gov/releases/office-of-the-spokesperson/2026/03/secretary-of-state-marco-rubio-remarks-to-press-6/

---

I was speaking to Trump's psychological makeup, his NPD, and his personal motivations. There has clearly been an intermixing of US policy decisions / US goals and his NPD, his business empire objectives, and the growth of his family fortune in his first-term and second-term foreign policy decisions. That is a matter of record. Which brings us back to the question: what are Trump's personal agenda items and motivations in this Iran War? Understand that and you'll understand what exit options he'll accept.

Ditto for Putin in the Ukraine War.

---

I love how you state conjecture so positively as fact.

You ARE a true believer for sure...

DeschutesAg said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

DeschutesAg said:

---

What objective and agenda Trump is really trying to accomplish?

It probably ultimately boils down to self-aggrandizement.

---

Here is a reminder on why we got involved. It hasn't changed.

https://www.state.gov/releases/office-of-the-spokesperson/2026/03/secretary-of-state-marco-rubio-remarks-to-press-6/

---

I was speaking to Trump's psychological makeup, his NPD, and his personal motivations. There has clearly been an intermixing of US policy decisions / US goals and his NPD, his business empire objectives, and the growth of his family fortune in his first-term and second-term foreign policy decisions. That is a matter of record. Which brings us back to the question: what are Trump's personal agenda items and motivations in this Iran War? Understand that and you'll understand what exit options he'll accept.

Ditto for Putin in the Ukraine War.

---

So Trump is Hitler is not enough now he is Putin? You cannot be serious with that drivel.

NPD, a clinical diagnosis that Trump has never been shown to have really undermines the rest of the post. A true NPD is not able to show empathy. His visiting with Angel Moms and their stories of personal interactions with him prove with no doubt Trump is NOT a true narcissist. So that crap should stop as it really just begets the TDS designation.

So what are his personal motivations for the war in your absolutely unbiased perspective? What is a matter of record is that he DID NOT increase his wealth in the first term. And the action in Iraq comes at substantial risk to the remainder of his 2nd term and how is legacy is viewed for generations. EVERY SINGLE PUNDIT worth a listen to will point this out. Hell, Dems & libs & CMs and TDSers and purported R pearl clutchers all think this was a mistake and will destroy Rs in the midterms.

Is it now your contention that Trump did this for the self serving interest of putting a drag on his economic program and costing the Rs in the midterms so he can listen to impeachment nonsense was done to enrich himself, his donors, his family & friends?

And this compares to Putin wanting to re-secure a territory they once laid claim to and has historically been a part of Rus for a thousand years?

Entertaining reading on a Saturday morning to say the least.

SA68AG said:

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At this point Trump is being played by the Iranians.

He underestimated their ability to shut down the strait and for whatever reason seems incapable of resuming military action.

It appears the resolution will be some half-ass agreement that the Iranians will easily be able to work around.

Iran will be substantially weakened but long term there won't be any materiel difference from the old regime.

---

Folks were wondering what ActBlue was pushing out today. Thanks for providing.

But seriously, how did you arrive at these conclusions? It's not based on evidence so what is it based on?

Sadly they believe it and regurgitate it