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Northage Development + Petition
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Last: 1 day ago by PS3D
[Post your opinion again without the insulting and your post will stay on the thread. -Staff]
Macy's Live Music Venue!
Northgate was railing against exactly what you listed from the start. And frankly, people treated the businesses and citizens like they were overreacting. Cut to today, and the list of "problems" a new development is tasked with solving trace back to these very changes that businesses and citizens were "overreacting" to years ago.
This.FtnTXAg03 said:
Northgate was railing against exactly what you listed from the start. And frankly, people treated the businesses and citizens like they were overreacting. Cut to today, and the list of "problems" a new development is tasked with solving trace back to these very changes that businesses and citizens were "overreacting" to years ago.
Something, something different city council.
Right. The issue is now we're treating the late 1990s "improvements" as the "new" default and how "that" is the "old" Northgate, and I think I mentioned "never fully implemented, never fully worked" as part of the various plans that have come and gone.FtnTXAg03 said:
Northgate was railing against exactly what you listed from the start. And frankly, people treated the businesses and citizens like they were overreacting. Cut to today, and the list of "problems" a new development is tasked with solving trace back to these very changes that businesses and citizens were "overreacting" to years ago.
maroon barchetta said:
Macy's Live Music Venue!
Personally, my idea was renovating the Macy's into a new, combined Dillard's space, then turning the old Dillard's (the original Dillard's, not Service Merchandise-Dillard's) into additional corridor space. I'm thinking something like what was done to the former Bonwit Teller at Forest Fair Mall, adding a new restaurant and a huge nightclub inside. Granted, the mall DOES have a nightclub but it's in the wrong place and has no access to the interior.
City of College Station needs to hear from the citizens.
At this point the city bureaucracy is convincing counsel that "everyone" wants this to happen.
At this point the city bureaucracy is convincing counsel that "everyone" wants this to happen.
Tamfal86
PS3D said:
Why the focus on Northgate? It's getting harder and harder to get there and access anything, why not build the "entertainment district" elsewhere? Heck, I'm surprised that the city isn't talking to CBL Properties to redevelop Post Oak Mall into some sort of hybridized retail/entertainment district.
I agree with this! The entire POM property would make a fantastic entertainment district. I know the city only owns the Macy's building, but as more and more of the mall dies out, perhaps a master plan could be developed to better utilize that entire property.
Ever been to Watters Creek in Allen? Or Grandscape in The Colony? Amazing shopping/entertainment districts! Something like that would be amazing here, and the POM property offers the space for it.
As I mentioned before, I'm afraid Northgate--while charming in its own way--has already strayed too far from its roots (if you want to call them that) to serve as a suitable "entertainment district" going forward, as the community grows even more. There are just too many high-rises and apartment buildings that aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
Well said.AggiePhil said:PS3D said:
Why the focus on Northgate? It's getting harder and harder to get there and access anything, why not build the "entertainment district" elsewhere? Heck, I'm surprised that the city isn't talking to CBL Properties to redevelop Post Oak Mall into some sort of hybridized retail/entertainment district.
I agree with this! The entire POM property would make a fantastic entertainment district. I know the city only owns the Macy's building, but as more and more of the mall dies out, perhaps a master plan could be developed to better utilize that entire property.
Ever been to Watters Creek in Allen? Or Grandscape in The Colony? Amazing shopping/entertainment districts! Something like that would be amazing here, and the POM property offers the space for it.
As I mentioned before, I'm afraid Northgate--while charming in its own way--has already strayed too far from its roots (if you want to call them that) to serve as a suitable "entertainment district" going forward, as the community grows even more. There are just too many high-rises and apartment buildings that aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
Trump will fix it.
tamfal86 said:
City of College Station needs to hear from the citizens.
At this point the city bureaucracy is convincing counsel that "everyone" wants this to happen.
I gave suggestions in a previous thread on what kind of surveys needed to be sent to residents and to all students, staff, and faculty at the University as well as former students and season ticket holders for athletics.
My comment was pulled for some reason that was not explained.
The city would rather rush into some decision and declare (FINALLY) a financial victory with a land deal than have to sort thru actual input from the people that frequent Northgate or pay taxes in the city. That input might be counter to what they want to do.
Better to just not ask and say "welp, we asked 30 people on the Aggieland board! That's our market research!!"
If this was in Bryan, I'm sure they would hit the ball out of the park.
The city's requirements (police, restroom, parking, rideshare pickup/drop-off) limit available ground floor space. But I agree that it would be great if the city made it possible for there to be additional nonresidential space in the building once that makes sense.ZoneClubber said:
A giant residential student housing building with 3500 sq feet of retail? That's 1% or less of the usable square footage.
If the city lays off of Euclidian use-based zoning there, it might allow for the building management to shift some square footage to offices or businesses that don't need to be on the ground floor (e.g., a yoga studio or anything where people are going to spend some time so the elevator ride will be a relatively minor inconvenience).
But the key is to make it easy to do. Building managers will have compatible uses in mind, so the city doesn't need to babysit for that reason. If the city makes people go through 3 layers of rigmarole to switch the space to something suitable for an office or business, I worry that will prevent them from even trying.
Brian Alg
Brazos Coalition for Responsible Government and Moderator Restraint
Brazos Coalition for Responsible Government and Moderator Restraint
I think maintaining the existing structure would be more interesting and cause less of an issue. A fully-enclosed "streetscape" would not only not use existing infrastructure or disrupt businesses, but be unique in its own way, avoid the summer heat, and so on...as well as tying into a revitalization of the mall, thus replacing Northgate and fixing the mall, all within budget.AggiePhil said:PS3D said:
Why the focus on Northgate? It's getting harder and harder to get there and access anything, why not build the "entertainment district" elsewhere? Heck, I'm surprised that the city isn't talking to CBL Properties to redevelop Post Oak Mall into some sort of hybridized retail/entertainment district.
I agree with this! The entire POM property would make a fantastic entertainment district. I know the city only owns the Macy's building, but as more and more of the mall dies out, perhaps a master plan could be developed to better utilize that entire property.
Ever been to Watters Creek in Allen? Or Grandscape in The Colony? Amazing shopping/entertainment districts! Something like that would be amazing here, and the POM property offers the space for it.
As I mentioned before, I'm afraid Northgate--while charming in its own way--has already strayed too far from its roots (if you want to call them that) to serve as a suitable "entertainment district" going forward, as the community grows even more. There are just too many high-rises and apartment buildings that aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
To illustrate this I've attached an annotated picture of the mall's proposed redevelopment. Notice the "entertainment district" doesn't need to be terribly large. 100,000 square feet of space including corridors should be plenty.
The "leaders" want to kill Northgate, and it has been that way for years, now they have their chance.
https://www.kbtx.com/2025/01/09/local-developer-expresses-disappointment-with-citys-decision-bid-northgate-parking-lot/
You can see Oldham Goodwin's plan submitted to the city for the site. They incorporated the old gas station property off University as well for a comprehensive plan.
https://www.scribd.com/document/813400525/Oldham-Goodwin-conceptual-site-plans-and-renderings#from_embed
You can see Oldham Goodwin's plan submitted to the city for the site. They incorporated the old gas station property off University as well for a comprehensive plan.
https://www.scribd.com/document/813400525/Oldham-Goodwin-conceptual-site-plans-and-renderings#from_embed
all nice and sterile. Nothing historic or organic. Just another city scape. Those developers are not on my prayer list.
Brian Alg said:The city's requirements (police, restroom, parking, rideshare pickup/drop-off) limit available ground floor space. But I agree that it would be great if the city made it possible for there to be additional nonresidential space in the building once that makes sense.ZoneClubber said:
A giant residential student housing building with 3500 sq feet of retail? That's 1% or less of the usable square footage.
If the city lays off of Euclidian use-based zoning there, it might allow for the building management to shift some square footage to offices or businesses that don't need to be on the ground floor (e.g., a yoga studio or anything where people are going to spend some time so the elevator ride will be a relatively minor inconvenience).
But the key is to make it easy to do. Building managers will have compatible uses in mind, so the city doesn't need to babysit for that reason. If the city makes people go through 3 layers of rigmarole to switch the space to something suitable for an office or business, I worry that will prevent them from even trying.
Blaming zoning for why there's no second-level commercial retail is silly. With the things required for thatelevators just for customers, freight elevators, etc. it makes the cost of business so much higher, and Northgate is not some place like where a high-end yoga studio would locate anyway. Even in Houston, you either see ground level retail below residential or two-level strip centers, (almost) never both. Yes, they do exist but that's River Oaks in Houston. Northgate is not River Oaks in Houston.
I should also mention that while stuff like that *did* exist locally in Northgate, stuff like the vintage clothing store off University Drive, you can't build a set-up like that anymore because of fire code and accessibility reasons.
Is there any way to spell Northgate correctly in the title of this thread?
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I see the petition is up to nearly 14,000 signatures. I really hope the council will not ignore that. Again, I ask, maybe this big of a decision should be left up to the voters. Is that possible?
I am not seeing Oldham Goodwin's offer associated with the plan. Is that known?
Brian Alg
Brazos Coalition for Responsible Government and Moderator Restraint
Brazos Coalition for Responsible Government and Moderator Restraint
Not sure of their original offer but they sent a letter to the city amending it to $13.5 million (not sure if the city can consider that but I think they can reject all proposals and restart the process).Brian Alg said:
I am not seeing Oldham Goodwin's offer associated with the plan. Is that known?
https://www.kbtx.com/2025/01/09/local-developer-expresses-disappointment-with-citys-decision-bid-northgate-parking-lot/
Sounds like the Mayor's mind is made up already.
https://wtaw.com/college-station-mayor-john-nichols-on-wtaw-49/
https://wtaw.com/college-station-mayor-john-nichols-on-wtaw-49/
I would feel disgruntled by the result too, the accepted proposal has no mix-use focus and only has a token amount of retail that the Northgate Core Zoning already requires of any development.Quote:
The letter cited "clear technical flaws" in the request for proposal process and the city's clear preference for a larger offering price rather than "a true mixed-use development as described in the RFP."
The OG plan is at least better in that regard.
I saw that they wanted to change it to $13.5. But I was curious how much lower theirs was. I think there is a big difference between if it was $12.7 or if it was millions less than Capstone's $13 million offer.
I called Oldham Goodwin in the off chance that they were willing to divulge what their bid was. I am not holding my breath. But for sure if I get a call back, I will let y'all know.
I called Oldham Goodwin in the off chance that they were willing to divulge what their bid was. I am not holding my breath. But for sure if I get a call back, I will let y'all know.
Brian Alg
Brazos Coalition for Responsible Government and Moderator Restraint
Brazos Coalition for Responsible Government and Moderator Restraint
Tailgate88 said:
Sounds like the Mayor's mind is made up already.
https://wtaw.com/college-station-mayor-john-nichols-on-wtaw-49/
And the surprise is…
Thanks for that. Even if it was much lower this process is very odd.
The city chose a sealed bid process to allow it to choose a proposal that offered "the highest value", not necessarily monetary. One of the criteria was public space, the OG proposal beats the Capstone proposal up and down the field in that regard. Mayor Nichols has stated in numerous outlets he's focused on housing housing housing, the OG proposal appears to win by a large margin when they combine the Northgate lot with their other property. OG even went above and beyond to offer to help build a pedestrian bridge over University.
OG has a right to be angry. They were misled and the result is a project that will produce less tax revenue and provide fewer community benefits. Considering OG's offer to up their bid, the property is more valuable than participants in the bid process imagined. At an absolute minimum this process has to be ended and a new one started.
The city chose a sealed bid process to allow it to choose a proposal that offered "the highest value", not necessarily monetary. One of the criteria was public space, the OG proposal beats the Capstone proposal up and down the field in that regard. Mayor Nichols has stated in numerous outlets he's focused on housing housing housing, the OG proposal appears to win by a large margin when they combine the Northgate lot with their other property. OG even went above and beyond to offer to help build a pedestrian bridge over University.
OG has a right to be angry. They were misled and the result is a project that will produce less tax revenue and provide fewer community benefits. Considering OG's offer to up their bid, the property is more valuable than participants in the bid process imagined. At an absolute minimum this process has to be ended and a new one started.
The fact that OG's plan incorporated the gas station property at University and Boyett would make it a more compelling project just on that factor alone. It would allow there to be a much more comprehensive plan for those pieces of property and could allow for a larger green space/public area which would be very beneficial to Northgate. I appreciate OG calling them out.
Tailgate88 said:
Sounds like the Mayor's mind is made up already.
https://wtaw.com/college-station-mayor-john-nichols-on-wtaw-49/
https://librarystage.municode.com/tx/college_station/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=PTICICH_ARTXINRERE_LIMITATIONS_RECALLS
https://www.tml.org/DocumentCenter/View/184/City-Council---Recall---Home-Rule---2010-05-PDF
If they can't be recalled every single politician that votes for this should be primaried on the spot. That includes William Wright.
Please email council if you haven't already! I think the only way to get the OG proposal back would be to end this process and start another RFP, so please ask them to do that if you support the OG proposal (or just a better plan, in general).Captn_Ag05 said:
The fact that OG's plan incorporated the gas station property at University and Boyett would make it a more compelling project just on that factor alone. It would allow there to be a much more comprehensive plan for those pieces of property and could allow for a larger green space/public area which would be very beneficial to Northgate. I appreciate OG calling them out.
Not sure what exactly "public space" means in this context. The Capstone bid gives the city a ton of space on the ground floor in the form of restroom, police, and parking. it looks like the difference between OG and Capstone is that instead of city parking on the ground floor, they have retail. I think privately managed retail property is a better use of that ground floor than city parking. But I don't think it would be crazy if the city decision makers considered ground floor city parking to be "public space." I don't know. But I don't think the "public space" argument is a slam dunk in OG's favor necessarily.rocketscience said:
The city chose a sealed bid process to allow it to choose a proposal that offered "the highest value", not necessarily monetary. One of the criteria was public space, the OG proposal beats the Capstone proposal up and down the field in that regard.
Comparing housing in Capstone's bid against housing OG's bid combined with housing in OG's other property is not the right comparison. The right way to compare is marginal increase vs. marginal increase. If Capstone is going to create 450 units and OG was going to increase their original 300 to 800, you'd have a point. I don't see that here, though (what OG released is not very detailed). But if you want to compare OG's combined residential space, the right thing to compare to is Capstone's 301 Patricia plus OG's other proposed building (if they don't get the 301 Patricia).rocketscience said:
Mayor Nichols has stated in numerous outlets he's focused on housing housing housing, the OG proposal appears to win by a large margin when they combine the Northgate lot with their other property.
A pedestrian bridge would be dope. I would love to see one. But as far as I can tell OG's offer was not very concrete. What's it worth? They aren't pledging funds or moving the ball as far as I can tell.rocketscience said:
OG even went above and beyond to offer to help build a pedestrian bridge over University.
From OG's selection from their bid:
OG's offer to "work in good faith [...] to explore" doesn't seem like that much to get excited about.Quote:
The buyer will work in good faith with the City of College Station and Texas A&M University to explore an overhead pedestrian overpass connection point from this property to Texas A&M University.
They have every right to be angry. But I am not convinced they were misled from what I have seen so far. It is just as likely that they tried to lowball their bid and are using this hullabaloo with the petition as an opportunity to follow up with a more competitive bid. I don't know though. I would need more information from OG. What OG has shown so far though does not make it clear OG got bamboozled. Maybe they did. But I am not seeing evidence of that.Quote:
OG has a right to be angry. They were misled and the result is a project that will produce less tax revenue and provide fewer community benefits. Considering OG's offer to up their bid, the property is more valuable than participants in the bid process imagined. At an absolute minimum this process has to be ended and a new one started.
If this is an attempt to put in an after-the-deadline bid using the additional information they got from the unsealing of the apparent winning offer, the city should be super hesitant to let that happen. If the city does it this time, everyone will lowball in closed bid processes from here on out since the city will have shown that "final offer" doesn't necessarily mean "final offer."
Brian Alg
Brazos Coalition for Responsible Government and Moderator Restraint
Brazos Coalition for Responsible Government and Moderator Restraint
Well said, sir. You have been nails on this thread.
Trump will fix it.
Councilman Yancy, can you propose that the council put this matter on a ballot so the voters decide?
"Work in good faith" and "explore" and "plan to" when mentioned on a project in Bryan will get immediate praise and "knocking it out of the park" platitudes.
Why wouldn't it be the same a few blocks south?
Why wouldn't it be the same a few blocks south?
A pedestrian bridge for University Drive is a really dumb idea. Unless you completely reconstruct University Drive to be sunken below grade, any pedestrian bridge will have a bunch of switchbacks just to cross a six-lane road (which makes it much longer) and then, like Wellborn, close off the pedestrian crosswalk on the road, which makes the whole thing LESS safe. Seems like OG's parking idea is to shunt over public parking to Lot 30, where A&M will charge out the nose for even daytime lunch traffic and cutting the city out of it entirely.
Capstone put forward a plan that would work with what the city wanted, OG didn't, and treating like the city did some crime by snubbing OG's plan is why I feel this board has some of the worst takes outside of Reddit.
Capstone put forward a plan that would work with what the city wanted, OG didn't, and treating like the city did some crime by snubbing OG's plan is why I feel this board has some of the worst takes outside of Reddit.
That's actually not true. OG's plan was to replace the existing surface parking lot with a greater number of free public parking spaces on the first floor of the parking garage than exist on the surface lot today.
Capstones plan as presented by staff is to charge for parking and have a revenue share agreement with the city.
TxDot and the City of College Station shared their plans for pedestrian cross walks over university drive in a recent council meeting, you might want to look into that as well.
Capstones plan as presented by staff is to charge for parking and have a revenue share agreement with the city.
TxDot and the City of College Station shared their plans for pedestrian cross walks over university drive in a recent council meeting, you might want to look into that as well.