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Ken Berger ?@KBergCBS
Since the Nets are using the non-taxpayer mid-level, their payroll cannot exceed $74M under new rules.

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Also something to consider.

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Age talks, too. Dirk and Marion are both 34. Is he going to still count on them in 5 years?

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True but I was speaking in terms of now. Dirk & Marion today > Joe Johnson & Wallace.

From listening to Williams, he wants to win now. I don't see that happening. Not anything close to a championship anyway. Maybe getting out of the first or second round. Like the Mavs from '01-05 basically.

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So does production...Dirk and Marion averaged 21.6 and 10.6 (32.2)ppg; Wallace and Joe Johnson averaged 15.2 and 18.8 ppg (34). There ppg are identical with the age factor going to the Nets (34 for both Dirk and Marion and 29 and 31 for wallace and Johnson).

So he has a better chance to win AND get more money in Brooklyn. Just saying.

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Johnson gets more points obviously due to the fact he jacks up a lot more shots. And his D is nowhere near Marion's. Johnson is the better offensive player. Marion is the better defensive player. We all know that.

And I think we all know Dirk > Wallace.

Side bit: Nick Calathes signed in Russia. 09 pick for the Mavs won't join for at least another year.

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From listening to Williams, he wants to win now. I don't see that happening.

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if by "win" you mean compete for a championship, that isn't gonna happen in Dallas or Brooklyn.

edit: typos

[This message has been edited by Dan 07 (edited 7/3/2012 12:07p).]

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True but I was speaking in terms of now. Dirk & Marion today > Joe Johnson & Wallace.

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Dirk+Marion+Vince+RoddyB or Lopez+Humphries+Wallace+Johnson+Brooks

I know which one I pick.

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So does production...Dirk and Marion averaged 21.6 and 10.6 (32.2)ppg; Wallace and Joe Johnson averaged 15.2 and 18.8 ppg (34). There ppg are identical with the age factor going to the Nets (34 for both Dirk and Marion and 29 and 31 for wallace and Johnson)

So he has a better chance to win

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isolating points per game and using that to determine that Nets > Mavs? Come on man. I know you hate the Mavs, but you're better than that.

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if by "win" you mean compete for a championship, that isn't gonna happen in Dallas or Brooklyn.

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Agree. I don't think either of these teams will win a ship with or without Deron.

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Dirk+Marion+Vince+RoddyB or Lopez+Humphries+Wallace+Johnson+Brooks

I know which one I pick.

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I agree with your conclusion based on the rosters you listed. But for the Mavs, you only list players currently under contract, for the Nets you include guys who aren't currently under contract. Who the Mavs will add is speculative, at best, at this point, but I doubt they go in to next season with those as their top 4 [knock on wood]. I'm not saying you should try to guess who the Mavs will sign, I'm only pointing that the Mavs probably have a few moves to make that will make the two rosters a little more competitive.

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if by "win" you mean compete for a championship, that isn't gonna happen in Dallas or Brooklyn.
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Agree. I don't think either of these teams will win a ship with or without Deron.

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I think that all depends on what else could be added to a D-Will/Dirk combo. Those two guys would attract some good veterans who want a chance to compete for a ring. The Mavs have been very good at making these manuevers.

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True but I was speaking in terms of now. Dirk & Marion today > Joe Johnson & Wallace.

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Not based on production. If you mean your personal preference than ok, but in terms of ppg, that's not an accurate statement.

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Johnson gets more points obviously due to the fact he jacks up a lot more shots. And his D is nowhere near Marion's. Johnson is the better offensive player. Marion is the better defensive player. We all know that.

And I think we all know Dirk > Wallace.

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I'm certainly not arguing that Wallace or Johnson for that matter are better than Dirk; but I am saying that the combo of Johnson and Wallace are better than Dirk and anyone that the mavs pair with him as the roster is currently consituted.

Regarding Johnson and his volume shooting, in 11-12 he shot 45% from the field, where Dirk shot 45%. He's almost as efficient as Dirk in terms of FG% last year and has a career FG% of 44%; to call him a volume shooter isn't accurate.

In terms of Wallace, his defense is just as good as Marion's. He was all all defensive team in 2010 and received almost 50% of the vote for 2011 all defensive team, and has led the league in steals (2006 I believe)

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I agree with your conclusion based on the rosters you listed. But for the Mavs, you only list players currently under contract, for the Nets you include guys who aren't currently under contract. Who the Mavs will add is speculative, at best, at this point, but I doubt they go in to next season with those as their top 4 [knock on wood]. I'm not saying you should try to guess who the Mavs will sign, I'm only pointing that the Mavs probably have a few moves to make that will make the two rosters a little more competitive.

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Who would you put? Mavs dont have a lot of room to add people. Maybe they bring back Terry with Bird Rights? Maybe Kidd? That still isn't a sexy situation, even if you do have a great owner and Dirk.

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The Mavs have been very good at making these manuevers.

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they have? you sure about that one?

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Who would you put?

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I have no idea. Seems like the Mavs are "interested" in pretty much every free agent.

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Mavs dont have a lot of room to add people. Maybe they bring back Terry with Bird Rights? Maybe Kidd?

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Haywood amnesty. Trade exception from Odom trade. Jet/Kidd Bird rights or S&T. MLE. If they sign DWill they won't have much [if any] room left under the cap, but they still have some options.

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That still isn't a sexy situation, even if you do have a great owner and Dirk.

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I'm not saying it makes the Mavs better than the Nets. Just saying it's a lot closer than the original roster comparison you posted.

I just miss TC.

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The Mavs have been very good at making these manuevers.
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they have? you sure about that one?

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Absolutely. The Odom trade was the exception as of late but the vast majority of their signings/trades have worked out very well. Since they hosted a Championship Trophy a year ago how could you question that? Now you can always go back and ask why they didn't keep that team together but I understand how giving Chandler a max deal scared the hell out of them.

and then there was this rumor

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Source: Lakers are prepared to offer the Andrew Bynum and Metta World Peace to the Magic provided Howard signs extension

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[This message has been edited by MW03 (edited 7/3/2012 12:57p).]

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Haywood amnesty. Trade exception from Odom trade. Jet/Kidd Bird rights or S&T. MLE. If they sign DWill they won't have much [if any] room left under the cap, but they still have some options.

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I guess it is possible to get something decent from the S&T of Terry or Kidd, but generally when you trade someone away, you are getting a future pick or an ending contract or something not that good. Like remember when the Mavs S&T for Dampier? What did Golden State get? Luis Flores, Christian Laettner, Eduardo Najera, Mladen Sekularac, $3mm and two ****ty first rounders.

If Mavs get Deron, the Haywood Amnesty doesn't get them cap space.

So it is POSSIBLE to get something for KIdd/Terry, but unlikely. Rarely does the back end team come out ahead on the S&T unless you get some kinda big dumb brute cap fodder throw in like Ben Wallace.

JET likely going to the Celtics.

Looks like JET is taking the full MLE. No S&T necessary.

Not sure how that will work. IF ray goes back to Boston, I don't see JET being in the game late in the 4th and I doubt he would be OK with that.

He's definitely a good pick up for them. They need his offense.

I was hoping JET would at least wait until Deron signed somewhere to go elsewhere. If we don't get DWill it seems like the Mavs would make an offer then.

I think Shuttlesworth is leaving Boston. Clippers want him and need outside shooting and a 2 guard. MIami wants him but only has the 3mm and has a really good 2 guard.

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If Mavs get Deron, the Haywood Amnesty doesn't get them cap space.

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Why would this be the case?

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I agree with your conclusion based on the rosters you listed. But for the Mavs, you only list players currently under contract, for the Nets you include guys who aren't currently under contract. Who the Mavs will add is speculative, at best, at this point, but I doubt they go in to next season with those as their top 4 [knock on wood]. I'm not saying you should try to guess who the Mavs will sign, I'm only pointing that the Mavs probably have a few moves to make that will make the two rosters a little more competitive.

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I think that all depends on what else could be added to a D-Will/Dirk combo. Those two guys would attract some good veterans who want a chance to compete for a ring. The Mavs have been very good at making these manuevers.

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The Mavs obviously have already demonstrated the ability to put together a championship roster. The Nets have not.

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I just miss TC.

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Me too. And Barrera.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

In spite of GS and preps Mavs' hatred, the guys on the NBA channel said the Mavs have the ability to make a ton of cap space over night.

We'll see how it plays out. Not signing Chandler and Barrera last year is looking more and more like a mistake though.

1 Dirk 20mm
2 Deron 17mm
3 Marion 8.4
4 V4ince 3mm
5 RodyB 2.2
6 Jones 1.3
7 Kidd 10mm cap hold, 5mm realistic salary?
8 cap hold (about $500k)
9 cap hold
10 cap hold
11 cap hold
12 cap hold
13 cap hold

56.9mm with Kidd at 5mm to resign. 51.9 if they renounce Kidd and everyone else. But you have to place a cap hold on all roster spots. So if they keep Kidd at 5mm, then $3mm in cap holds, they have 59.9mm for the cap.

The expected salary cap is $58mm.

what about the trade exception for Odom?

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In spite of GS and preps Mavs' hatred, the guys on the NBA channel said the Mavs have the ability to make a ton of cap space over night.

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I don't hate the Mavs, and they can create a lot of cap space, but signing Deron kills it completely as I have shown. Numbers are numbers and like or dislike of a team is completely irrelevant.

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what about the trade exception for Odom?

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They can use that no matter what their cap situation is. The only catch is that it has to be for a single player. No multiple player deal.

You can't trade Kidd+Odom Exception for a max player. You can't trade the Odom exception for Houston's three rookies.

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The expected salary cap is $58mm.

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Wasn't this the figure this year? Salary cap is revenue-based. Adding those extra games could push the salary cap higher. I thought it was going to be around 60-61 for 2012-2013.

The cap figure really depends on what Kidd signs for. If the salary cap increases by 1-2 million, adding in the Odom trade exception + the TC trade exception I think the Mavs would be in decent shape.

I'd like to see us pull a S&T for Anthony Randolph.

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Wasn't this the figure this year? Salary cap is revenue-based. Adding those extra games could push the salary cap higher. I thought it was going to be around 60-61 for 2012-2013.

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It hasn't been determined, but 15 less games than normal hurts the total basketball revenue.

08: 56mm
09: 58.7mm
10: 57.7mm
11: 58mm
12: 58mm

I don't know how we will have much higher cap than it has been for the past half decade with 15 less games.

Even if it goes up, the Mavs would still be over with Deron and their trade exception and MLE are their only real assets to acquire past the cap.

Mavs have 4 trade exceptions + MLE:
8.9 Odom
3.1 Corey Brewer
4.2 TC
2.2 Rudy F

One TE per player, the Mavs could do some damage via S&T (like I want us to do with Anthony Randolph) or trading outright.

Also: BKN are using their trade exception on Reggie Evans.

[This message has been edited by Judge (edited 7/3/2012 3:16p).]