Grapesoda2525 said:

---

M.C. Swag said:

---

Grapesoda2525 said:

---

Why would the clippers take Mathews?

He's not good and his contract is terrible.

---

Because the $24m is a sunk cost for LA. The Clippers already made it clear they dont want Deandre Jordan, but they don't have a say in whether they pay that $24m or not. So trading for Mathews at least reduces that by about $6m and it gets rid of a guy they no longer want or need (with the addition of Gortat).

---

Doesn't Matthews have a player option after this year that he could opt in to?

I thought the mavs were stuck with Matthews this year and next year.

---

Nope. Are you a Mavs fan?

M.C. Swag said:

---

Grapesoda2525 said:

---

M.C. Swag said:

---

Grapesoda2525 said:

---

Why would the clippers take Mathews?

He's not good and his contract is terrible.

---

Because the $24m is a sunk cost for LA. The Clippers already made it clear they dont want Deandre Jordan, but they don't have a say in whether they pay that $24m or not. So trading for Mathews at least reduces that by about $6m and it gets rid of a guy they no longer want or need (with the addition of Gortat).

---

Doesn't Matthews have a player option after this year that he could opt in to?

I thought the mavs were stuck with Matthews this year and next year.

---

Nope. Are you a Mavs fan?

---

Yes, but I haven't followed the team very closely the last few years.

It was my way of protesting for the brain trust pretty much ignoring the draft.

They seem to be doing things the right way tho by picking up smith and doncic.

Ah well that was the reason Mathews wasn't included in the Atlanta Hawks trade for Doncic. The original deal was #3 pick + Bazemore for #5 pick + Wes Mathews (essentially a $20m benefit to Atlanta as Bazemore has 2 years left on his deal vs Mathews 1 yr). The Mavs wanted to hold onto Mathews contract for better use as a trade piece...as we're seeing here with DJ.

^Whether you or I agree with the valuation of those moves is a whole different topic, but I'm just outlining the Mavs FO perspective and why Mathews is NOW being available for the DJ trade and why it makes sense for the Clippers to take him.

M.C. Swag said:

---

Ah well that was the reason Mathews wasn't included in the Atlanta Hawks trade for Doncic. The original deal was #3 pick + Bazemore for #5 pick + Wes Mathews (essentially a $20m benefit to Atlanta as Bazemore has 2 years left on his deal vs Mathews 1 yr). The Mavs wanted to hold onto Mathews contract for better use as a trade piece...as we're seeing here with DJ.

^Whether you or I agree with the valuation of those moves is a whole different topic, but I'm just outlining the Mavs FO perspective and why Mathews is NOW being available for the DJ trade and why it makes sense for the Clippers to take him.

---

That does make sense. Thanks for clarifying.

I was wondering why the mavs didn't take bazemore, but that totally makes sense. I missed that major detail.

An interesting take on possibly acquiring deandre Jordan.


https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2018/6/28/17347170/why-deandre-jordan-isnt-the-answer-for-the-mavericks

I tend to agree. I think Cuban is just trying to make the playoffs and get swept by golden state this year in the first round instead of trying to continue a rebuild that has netted some good pieces so far.


Getting cousins or capela would be a different story tho

I never thought I could look at a 25/12 guy and think "Nah, I don't really want that guy on my team." But I keep having that thought with Cousins. I just feel like there are some empty numbers there; while he certainly adds something to your team, there is an offsetting detriment. Then there is the achilles question.

Posters who want Cousins....there is a poor history with big heavy guys recovering from achilles injuries. Putting everything else aside in terms of his personality, he may very well never physically be the same player that he was unfortunately. There is a significant risk on what you would be getting. Cousins may not even be able to play much next season.

I'm not sure Capela is worth a max contract, but I would be ok if we got him for one. I also would be ok with someone like Favors for a midrange deal.

I don't think Capela is worth the Max, but Cuban does have a history of overpaying to put rivals in a tough spot. He may do that with Houston or New Orleans.

isnt deandre a one year rental?


not following the logic. who are the bigs becoming free agents next year>

awinlonghorn said:

---

isnt deandre a one year rental?


not following the logic. who are the bigs becoming free agents next year>

---

No one good. Look up a few posts. Mavs likely lock up Jordan long term if they trade for him.

I can talk myself into liking a deal to get Jordan as long as it doesn't mean mortgaging the future.

-He's still in his prime, and has had a healthy career.
-He'd be one of the few "big name" FAs the Mavs have signed while still in their prime (unlike the Mavs' A'mare era).
-Would give Dirk one last playoff run.
-Would make 2018-19 really fun to watch.

All the reasons I liked Jordan as a player before are still valid.

I wonder if we get him, if we still have a shot at Randle. Or if we would need/want them both.

Sounds like DJ is a guarantee at this point. Only question is whether he opts out and the Mavs sign him as a free agent or he opts-in and Wes Mathews+ goes to the Clippers. The opt-in scenario is clearly the best case. It would allow the Mavs to give DJ a test run before deciding his contract next year (when he turns 31). Should be cheaper. If he opts-out I really hope the Mavs don't give him 20M+ over 4 years. That is what I would be afraid of.

jeffdjohnson said:

---

Sounds like DJ is a guarantee at this point. Only question is whether he opts out and the Mavs sign him as a free agent or he opts-in and Wes Mathews+ goes to the Clippers. The opt-in scenario is clearly the best case. It would allow the Mavs to give DJ a test run before deciding his contract next year (when he turns 31). Should be cheaper. If he opts-out I really hope the Mavs don't give him 20M+ over 4 years. That is what I would be afraid of.

---

It's hard to trust that guy.

I wouldn't believe anything until it's official.

Straight up Matthews for Deandre works.

jeffdjohnson said:

---

Sounds like DJ is a guarantee at this point. Only question is whether he opts out and the Mavs sign him as a free agent or he opts-in and Wes Mathews+ goes to the Clippers. The opt-in scenario is clearly the best case. It would allow the Mavs to give DJ a test run before deciding his contract next year (when he turns 31). Should be cheaper. If he opts-out I really hope the Mavs don't give him 20M+ over 4 years. That is what I would be afraid of.

---

What about 3yr-$60m?

I'd be interested in this Wes for DeAndre AND signing another big

PatAg said:

---

I'd be interested in this Wes for DeAndre AND signing another big

---

Derrick Favors

Clippers are making this difficult...they dont want wes matthews bad contract

I dont blame them. Matthews is almost useless to a team in their state. Pretty much like he's basically useless here.

DannyDuberstein said:

---

I dont blame them. Matthews is almost useless to a team in their state. Pretty much like he's basically useless here.

---

Again, his utility goes beyond on ththe court. The fact remains that LA DOESNT want Jordan. They traded for Gortat which means they don't need him either. At this point they're stuck with that $24m contract whether they like it or not. So unless someone out there is offering a comparable contract for a better player, Wes Mathews (a perfect locker room guy) for $6m less is prolly as good as it gets. No one else can absorb DJs contract and no one else is going to offer more than some other expiring contract.

Personally I tell LA these are the final terms, take it or leave it. Because the Clippers don't have any leverage to dictate more than a $6m cap shavings for a decent bench guy and terrific professional like Mathews.

Oh and I should add that Mathews would still remain a viable trade piece for the Clippers as well. They could easily flip him for another cheaper player to someone else fairly easily.

Not sure that Matthews is a viable trade piece. I like his attitude but no one is giving up anything for him. He's a negative asset. The only way you get something back for him is if it's a team trying to clear cap space and you get back a "better" player who is on the books for more years. But clippers dont want anyone on the books for more than 1 year so that's moot.

If I'm the clippers and think Deandre wants to leave, then I play hardball and don't take Wes. Let Deandre opt out and take a longer deal with the mavs or someone else. That would be ideal for clippers. Taking on Wes is only a benefit once Deandre has already opted in.

I'm guessing clippers probably eventually cave and trade him, but I understand where they are coming from in refusing to take Wes.

mavsfan4ever said:

---

Not sure that Matthews is a viable trade piece. Expiring contracts ARE VIABLE. I like his attitude but no one is giving up anything for him. Clippers aren't giving up anything; they're gaining $6m of additional cap space for a player they don't want or need. He's a negative asset. DJ wants an extension and Clippers don't want to give him one. He's a negative asset to them as well. The only way you get something back for him is if it's a team trying to clear cap space and you get back a "better" player who is on the books for more years. But clippers dont want anyone on the books for more than 1 year so that's moot. Mathews only has 1 year left on his deal.

If I'm the clippers and think Deandre wants to leave, then I play hardball and don't take Wes. Let Deandre opt out and take a longer deal with the mavs or someone else. That would be ideal for clippers. Taking on Wes is only a benefit once Deandre has already opted in. This whole idea of trading is based around the fact that DJ opts in. There's no debate if he opts out.

I'm guessing clippers probably eventually cave and trade him, but I understand where they are coming from in refusing to take Wes. I don't understand the extreme viewpoint for Wes. Is he worth $18m? Hell no. But he's not some scrub. He is still a quality nba player and by all accounts is a terrific glue guy. There is literally no harm in acquiring him if DJ opts in to his deal. Less money, viable plyaer and trade piece for almost 33% less money.

---

LAC clearly wants him to opt-out and leave. The Mavs (if they are smart) should not pay DJ 25M this season. That market doesn't exist any more. Logically DJ should opt-in and take the cash. However he can't force a trade to the Mavs unless this is done before 7/1. Considering the Mavs poo poo platter deluxe offer, if I were the Clippers I would hold DJ until the trade deadline if he opts-in to see what else might pop up. I'm starting to think the opt-in Mathews+ trade won't go down (I don't blame the Clippers as it is a crap offer).

It wouldn't surprise me if there is a back-channel deal where DJ opts out and the Mavs try to make him whole with a 3/60M deal as mentioned. It would be an overpay according to current market, but it would also me necessary in order to entice DJ to opt out.

M.C. Swag said:

---

mavsfan4ever said:

---

Not sure that Matthews is a viable trade piece. Expiring contracts ARE VIABLE. I like his attitude but no one is giving up anything for him. Clippers aren't giving up anything; they're gaining $6m of additional cap space for a player they don't want or need. He's a negative asset. DJ wants an extension and Clippers don't want to give him one. He's a negative asset to them as well. The only way you get something back for him is if it's a team trying to clear cap space and you get back a "better" player who is on the books for more years. But clippers dont want anyone on the books for more than 1 year so that's moot. Mathews only has 1 year left on his deal.

If I'm the clippers and think Deandre wants to leave, then I play hardball and don't take Wes. Let Deandre opt out and take a longer deal with the mavs or someone else. That would be ideal for clippers. Taking on Wes is only a benefit once Deandre has already opted in. This whole idea of trading is based around the fact that DJ opts in. There's no debate if he opts out.

I'm guessing clippers probably eventually cave and trade him, but I understand where they are coming from in refusing to take Wes. I don't understand the extreme viewpoint for Wes. Is he worth $18m? Hell no. But he's not some scrub. He is still a quality nba player and by all accounts is a terrific glue guy. There is literally no harm in acquiring him if DJ opts in to his deal. Less money, viable plyaer and trade piece for almost 33% less money.

---

---

I think what I was saying went over your head. I understand everything about why clippers would trade for Wes bc it saves them space. You said that they could then trade Wes for another cheaper player and I was mainly responding to that. They aren't getting a player back in a trade unless that player (1) isn't very good and (2) has a multi year deal that the team is wanting to shed. And the clippers don't want a multi year deal so that is moot.

Clippers would obviously prefer that Deandre just opt out so that they don't have to take on Wes. So they should play hardball.

jeffdjohnson said:

---

LAC clearly wants him to opt-out and leave. The Mavs (if they are smart) should not pay DJ 25M this season. That market doesn't exist any more. Logically DJ should opt-in and take the cash. However he can't force a trade to the Mavs unless this is done before 7/1. Considering the Mavs poo poo platter deluxe offer, if I were the Clippers I would hold DJ until the trade deadline if he opts-in to see what else might pop up. I'm starting to think the opt-in Mathews+ trade won't go down (I don't blame the Clippers as it is a crap offer).

It wouldn't surprise me if there is a back-channel deal where DJ opts out and the Mavs try to make him whole with a 3/60M deal as mentioned. It would be an overpay according to current market, but it would also me necessary in order to entice DJ to opt out.

---

Agree with this. Clippers could likely get more at trade deadline so might as well hope that he opts out and then just keep him if he opts in (and try to trade st trade deadline).

And I hope we don't overpay for Jordan.

mavsfan4ever said:

---

M.C. Swag said:

---

mavsfan4ever said:

---

Not sure that Matthews is a viable trade piece. Expiring contracts ARE VIABLE. I like his attitude but no one is giving up anything for him. Clippers aren't giving up anything; they're gaining $6m of additional cap space for a player they don't want or need. He's a negative asset. DJ wants an extension and Clippers don't want to give him one. He's a negative asset to them as well. The only way you get something back for him is if it's a team trying to clear cap space and you get back a "better" player who is on the books for more years. But clippers dont want anyone on the books for more than 1 year so that's moot. Mathews only has 1 year left on his deal.

If I'm the clippers and think Deandre wants to leave, then I play hardball and don't take Wes. Let Deandre opt out and take a longer deal with the mavs or someone else. That would be ideal for clippers. Taking on Wes is only a benefit once Deandre has already opted in. This whole idea of trading is based around the fact that DJ opts in. There's no debate if he opts out.

I'm guessing clippers probably eventually cave and trade him, but I understand where they are coming from in refusing to take Wes. I don't understand the extreme viewpoint for Wes. Is he worth $18m? Hell no. But he's not some scrub. He is still a quality nba player and by all accounts is a terrific glue guy. There is literally no harm in acquiring him if DJ opts in to his deal. Less money, viable plyaer and trade piece for almost 33% less money.

---

---

I think what I was saying went over your head. I understand everything about why clippers would trade for Wes bc it saves them space. You said that they could then trade Wes for another cheaper player and I was mainly responding to that. They aren't getting a player back in a trade unless that player (1) isn't very good and (2) has a multi year deal that the team is wanting to shed. And the clippers don't want a multi year deal so that is moot.

Clippers would obviously prefer that Deandre just opt out so that they don't have to take on Wes. So they should play hardball.

---

Thanks for that subtle shot.

Beyond that, my point about Wes being another trade piece for the Clippers is that they can essentially do another ladder swap for a cheaper expiring contract and shed even more salary (whether he's a better player than Mathews or not is somewhat tertiary as moving salary is the prime benefit for a young team looking for FA additions). And again, Wes isn't some junk player. He's a quality nba player than can be a really good bench player or an average starter.

Isn't the fact that LAC is pushing back on the deal for Wes proof enough they don't think these options are worth it?

Pretty much. Let me convince you how great it is for you to take this spare for $18MM. But look how much you save! This type of deal is an option for them, but come on, it's not exactly enticing.

M.C. Swag said:

---

mavsfan4ever said:

---

M.C. Swag said:

---

mavsfan4ever said:

---

Not sure that Matthews is a viable trade piece. Expiring contracts ARE VIABLE. I like his attitude but no one is giving up anything for him. Clippers aren't giving up anything; they're gaining $6m of additional cap space for a player they don't want or need. He's a negative asset. DJ wants an extension and Clippers don't want to give him one. He's a negative asset to them as well. The only way you get something back for him is if it's a team trying to clear cap space and you get back a "better" player who is on the books for more years. But clippers dont want anyone on the books for more than 1 year so that's moot. Mathews only has 1 year left on his deal.

If I'm the clippers and think Deandre wants to leave, then I play hardball and don't take Wes. Let Deandre opt out and take a longer deal with the mavs or someone else. That would be ideal for clippers. Taking on Wes is only a benefit once Deandre has already opted in. This whole idea of trading is based around the fact that DJ opts in. There's no debate if he opts out.

I'm guessing clippers probably eventually cave and trade him, but I understand where they are coming from in refusing to take Wes. I don't understand the extreme viewpoint for Wes. Is he worth $18m? Hell no. But he's not some scrub. He is still a quality nba player and by all accounts is a terrific glue guy. There is literally no harm in acquiring him if DJ opts in to his deal. Less money, viable plyaer and trade piece for almost 33% less money.

---

---

I think what I was saying went over your head. I understand everything about why clippers would trade for Wes bc it saves them space. You said that they could then trade Wes for another cheaper player and I was mainly responding to that. They aren't getting a player back in a trade unless that player (1) isn't very good and (2) has a multi year deal that the team is wanting to shed. And the clippers don't want a multi year deal so that is moot.

Clippers would obviously prefer that Deandre just opt out so that they don't have to take on Wes. So they should play hardball.

---

Thanks for that subtle shot.

Beyond that, my point about Wes being another trade piece for the Clippers is that they can essentially do another ladder swap for a cheaper expiring contract and shed even more salary (whether he's a better player than Mathews or not is somewhat tertiary as moving salary is the prime benefit for a young team looking for FA additions). And again, Wes isn't some junk player. He's a quality nba player than can be a really good bench player or an average starter.

---

Shedding salary of an expiring contract doesn't do any good after free agency is over. Shedding contracts is about cap space, which is basically pointless in the middle of the season. So even if clippers could trade Wes for a cheaper contract, which I'm doubtful they could, what's the point? The clippers goal here isn't to just save a little cash. It's all about cap space and flexibility. And reading Wes for a cheaper contract after free agency does nothing for cap space. Having Deandre opt out is the clear best option for Clippers and that's why they are playing hardball. If he opts in, then in my opinion they should just trade him at the trade deadline instead of clearing 6 million in cap space by taking on Wes.

You are overrating Wes as a player and as an asset.