Does anyone get the feeling that the Spurs might not be in San Antonio long term? Peter Holt lost the team in his divorce, the WNBA team has left and now the Rampage are being sold to Las Vegas. I hope not, but these seem to be signs. Tell me how wrong I am, please!
***** 2019-2020 San Antonio Spurs *****
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Last: 4 yr ago by Enzo The Baker
Agzonfire said:
Does anyone get the feeling that the Spurs might not be in San Antonio long term? Peter Holt lost the team in his divorce, the WNBA team has left and now the Rampage are being sold to Las Vegas. I hope not, but these seem to be signs. Tell me how wrong I am, please!
I hope not, but I also don't know if San Antonio will strongly support a bad team long term. We are extremely spoiled.
Agzonfire said:
Does anyone get the feeling that the Spurs might not be in San Antonio long term? Peter Holt lost the team in his divorce, the WNBA team has left and now the Rampage are being sold to Las Vegas. I hope not, but these seem to be signs. Tell me how wrong I am, please!
I was thinking this too. I sure hope not but wouldn't be surprised if it happened at some point. I don't know the numbers, but by just watching tv, attendance seems to be abysmal.
The location of AT&T was not the smartest long term play. WTF were they thinking?
Ownership wanted AT&T near Fiesta Texas or near Retama to pull in from Austin.
The people that pull in more tax dollars than they give out wanted it near Freeman because it would revitalize the area. Yeah, 41 games a year isn't going to make someone build a restaurant or strip center, dumbasses.
The people that pull in more tax dollars than they give out wanted it near Freeman because it would revitalize the area. Yeah, 41 games a year isn't going to make someone build a restaurant or strip center, dumbasses.
The team is still in the Holt Family. Peter Holt's daughter and son in law run the Spurs now. 
Gig 'em Aggies!
Gig 'em Aggies!
And the Holts don't own 100%. Billionaire Jim Leininger is another, as is David Robinson, Mark Mays (Lowry's son and CEO of Clear Channel), Stephen Lang, Zachry Hospitality (yes, that Zachry), Valero, and a bunch of others.mike073 said:
The team is still in the Holt Family. Peter Holt's daughter and son in law run the Spurs now.
Guitarsoup said:And the Holts don't own 100%. Billionaire Jim Leininger is another, as is David Robinson, Mark Mays (Lowry's son and CEO of Clear Channel), Stephen Lang, Zachry Hospitality (yes, that Zachry), Valero, and a bunch of others.mike073 said:
The team is still in the Holt Family. Peter Holt's daughter and son in law run the Spurs now.
All local guys, so I suppose that's good.
DD out again tonight. Eff it. Just put in KJ and bench Forbes for the rest of the season. Let Samanic get some run too.
Related, I went to the Austin Spurs game on Sunday and both Luka and Keldon had their moments, but the consistency just isn't there yet. Metu looked the best, which was a little disappointing TBH.
Related, I went to the Austin Spurs game on Sunday and both Luka and Keldon had their moments, but the consistency just isn't there yet. Metu looked the best, which was a little disappointing TBH.
Forbes played less minutes than DJ, White, Walker and Mills and we got the win. Weird.
Marco: 16 minutes, 1 rebound, 0 assists, 0 points
Guitarsoup said:
Marco: 16 minutes, 1 rebound, 0 assists, 0 points
I would just buy him out at this point. His numbers are atrocious. And it doesn't even take his terrible defense into account.
I know everyone here is on the burn it down bandwagon, but Marco is a really good player and the young guys are likely learning how a legit NBA offense works at every practice.Enzo The Baker said:Guitarsoup said:
Marco: 16 minutes, 1 rebound, 0 assists, 0 points
I would just buy him out at this point. His numbers are atrocious. And it doesn't even take his terrible defense into account.
I agree that the young guys should be getting the bulk of the playing time, but lets be real. This is a lost season. Playoffs are unlikely (though not impossible), trade deadline came and went with no movement. At this point, the only thing Pop can do is tinker with minutes and lineups and try to find some things that can roll over into next season.
I don't understand why Pop does the things he does, but the guy has over 1,000 wins and a handful of championship rings. I trust that the dude knows what he is doing. He's earned the benefit of the doubt.
I agree with all of that. It's just more fun to play coach from my office chair.
Guitarsoup said:
Marco: 16 minutes, 1 rebound, 0 assists, 0 points
But he drinks wine with Pop after every game, so it's all good.
I just don't understand it with Marco in particular. He can't defend, can't create, just score. You put him in and if he misses his first 2-3 shots, sit him back down.
Dude's a turnstyle at the defensive end, and teams go after him there because they know he can't defend to save his life. No wonder Kawhi wanted out.
Carroll and San Antonio agreed to a buyout. Likely headed to Houston.
Probably didn't help that he said him and Pop didn't jell in basketball. I thought when Spurs signed him he was going to be a guy that would hustle on the court for them.
Brian Wright off to a rough start in his career. Although I'd still assume RC and Pop make the final calls anyways.
He and Westbrook can have fashion-offs now. God, the NBA is so lame now.
Someone needs to take the wine opener and keys to the franchise away from Pop.
What a **** show this franchise is becoming under the bitter old egomaniac of a man.
What a **** show this franchise is becoming under the bitter old egomaniac of a man.
AG 2000' said:
Someone needs to take the wine opener and keys to the franchise away from Pop.
What a **** show this franchise is becoming under the bitter old egomaniac of a man.
First time missing the playoffs in over 20 consecutive years. Calm down, you overzealous little girl.
Thanks for making his point
AG 2000' said:
Someone needs to take the wine opener and keys to the franchise away from Pop.
What a **** show this franchise is becoming under the bitter old egomaniac of a man.
Thanks for reminding me about the ignore function.
Obi Wan Ginobili said:AG 2000' said:
Someone needs to take the wine opener and keys to the franchise away from Pop.
What a **** show this franchise is becoming under the bitter old egomaniac of a man.
First time missing the playoffs in over 20 consecutive years. Calm down, you overzealous little girl.
Our problems started before this year.
* Giving Patty a fat deal at midnight of free agency starting
* Giving Gasol's old, slow, defensive turnstyle of a self a fat deal
* Kawhi leaving
* LaMarcus asking for trade
* DeRozan's multi-year sulking (and those idiots are still contemplating giving him a max deal by the way)
* Continued Larry Brown coaching model of rookies need to "get over themselves", even if it means watching the continued abuse of Forbes, Ferrari, and Mills on both ends of the floor
Now you've got giving Carroll this fat deal and buying him out after he only appears in 15 games. Really? the guy didn't even get run, while Pop's wine drinking buddy Marco is out there getting torched every night. We gave a guy a three year deal, he doesn't even get any run in the first season, and you buy him out before the season ends just to watch him go down the street to Houston?
So, just to recap, you've got the Spurs now paying Gasol and Carroll $11 million combined to either sit retired on a beach or play for your division rival. You're paying Patty and Marco a combined $18 million to drink wine and play turnstyle on defense every night, and show up one of every four or five games on offense.
Despite the Spurs having leverage with Carroll, he walked only giving up the prorated minimum this week. The Spurs got bent over on the way out the door by him despite having all the leverage with him. Gutless.
And to cap it all off now you've got Murray and Walker posting cryptic stuff on Instagram to each other on how they're being held back and looking forward to get the opportunity one day to lead this team. Meanwhile, Lonnie sits and watches Pop's culture crew of Patty, Forbes, and Beli suck it up every night.
If you think this is going well, think Pop's doing great, or that this team is headed in the right direction, sorry, I just flat out disagree with you here. It's a hard pill to swallow - this team and front office has been great for so long, and we've been spoiled for sure. But that doesn't mean we should be okay with watching it get flushed down the crapper because of some terrible mix of arrogance and incompetence at the top.
AG 2000' said:Obi Wan Ginobili said:AG 2000' said:
Someone needs to take the wine opener and keys to the franchise away from Pop.
What a **** show this franchise is becoming under the bitter old egomaniac of a man.
First time missing the playoffs in over 20 consecutive years. Calm down, you overzealous little girl.
Our problems started before this year.
* Giving Patty a fat deal at midnight of free agency starting
* Giving Gasol's old, slow, defensive turnstyle of a self a fat deal
* Kawhi leaving
* LaMarcus asking for trade
* DeRozan's multi-year sulking (and those idiots are still contemplating giving him a max deal by the way)
* Continued Larry Brown coaching model of rookies need to "get over themselves", even if it means watching the continued abuse of Forbes, Ferrari, and Mills on both ends of the floor
Now you've got giving Carroll this fat deal and buying him out after he only appears in 15 games. Really? the guy didn't even get run, while Pop's wine drinking buddy Marco is out there getting torched every night. We gave a guy a three year deal, he doesn't even get any run in the first season, and you buy him out before the season ends just to watch him go down the street to Houston?
So, just to recap, you've got the Spurs now paying Gasol and Carroll $11 million combined to either sit retired on a beach or play for your division rival. You're paying Patty and Marco a combined $18 million to drink wine and play turnstyle on defense every night, and show up one of every four or five games on offense.
Despite the Spurs having leverage with Carroll, he walked only giving up the prorated minimum this week. The Spurs got bent over on the way out the door by him despite having all the leverage with him. Gutless.
And to cap it all off now you've got Murray and Walker posting cryptic stuff on Instagram to each other on how they're being held back and looking forward to get the opportunity one day to lead this team. Meanwhile, Lonnie sits and watches Pop's culture crew of Patty, Forbes, and Beli suck it up every night.
If you think this is going well, think Pop's doing great, or that this team is headed in the right direction, sorry, I just flat out disagree with you here. It's a hard pill to swallow - this team and front office has been great for so long, and we've been spoiled for sure. But that doesn't mean we should be okay with watching it get flushed down the crapper because of some terrible mix of arrogance and incompetence at the top.
- Patty was being pursued by multiple teams. He's a good three point shooter and a universally respected teammate, the kind every team wants and needs. Your personal bias doesn't change these facts.
- Gasol was a great signing at the time. No one expected him to be an all-NBA defensive center at his age, but in a TEAM defense, he was fine. He wasn't brought in to lock down the other teams center. He was brought in to warp opposes defenses with his shooting ability. I guess we can ignore their 61-21 regular season that year. Gasol definitely held us back from 70 wins.
- Please explain how this is ANYONES fault other than Kawhi and his dumbass uncle. Please. I need a good laugh today.
- Weird how you use LaMarcus asking for a trade to prove your point but leave out the part where they worked it out and still made the playoffs with no Kawhi. It's almost like your argument is so bad you have to lie to yourself to get them typed out.
- A) Is he sulking? He's put up two of his highest PER years since he came into the league. Doesn't really fit the narrative of someone sulking, does it? B) Even if he is sulking, how is that Pop's fault? The team he played his first 9 years with traded him. He was a part of the communinty. He loved Toronto, and the fans loved him back. How is it Pop's fault that he was unhappy about the trade? Should we have sent DeMar back for free and said "sorry buddy, you're feelings trump this business". What kind of argument were you trying to make with this sulking crap?
- Again, 1,000+ wins, 5 rings, and universally accepted as a top 3 coach of all time. I think his stance on rookies can be justified by his pedigree as a champion.
This season sucks. No one is questioning that. It's hard watching a team make the playoffs for 22 straight years and then fall on their faces this badly, but this pitchfork **** needs to stop.
Popovich built a winner around Kawhi. Kawhi listened to his snake of an uncle and **** on the team he was under contract to, and because the NBA cares more about superstars in big markets, the Spurs had to bend over and take it. They got what they could from the situation. Pop would never have pursued DeRozan on his own. He never fit the style that got Pop all those rings. But what was he supposed to do???
Hey, I think Pop is a great coach and thank him for all he has done. At the same time, the last three years with the Spurs, he just doesn't have the juice. Hell, he didn't have it with Team USA either. Too busy trying to philosophize.
If you can't acknowledge that without personal insults, we should agree to disagree.
On Kawhi, there's a lot out there now that the Mills/Gasol signings were the beginning of the discord between Kawhi and Pop. Kawhi wanted Paul George, and the Spurs went with the kulture instead. Now, do I believe that things could have ended differently? Highly unlikely. But damn - Kawhi had George's ear and Pop appears to not even have given that a thought.
I don't blame them for the Gasol deal initially, but always assumed they'd trade him at the end (or at least his contract). Instead they just cut him a check.
Yeah, Mills had interest from other teams. But you don't set the market against yourself at 12:01 of free agency, you let him bring other offers to you and then make a decision.
DDR hasn't proven jack, he's still an issue, and it's scary as hell thinking that they will potentially give a guy who can't show up for the playoffs a max deal or anything near it.
And that's not even counting all the playoff series he's gotten outcoached during over the last several years, but I let those go against the balance of the titles and regular season record Pop's led this franchise too.
The fact all of this has happened and now our young core is openly showing contempt on social media about the situation should be a huge warning to everyone. And given Pop's propensity for telling players they need to get over themselves, he should take his own advice. As should anyone who sticks their head in a hole in the ground to defend him for what he did 5+ years go as if that means anything here now in 2020 with how he is managing and coaching this squad.
If you can't acknowledge that without personal insults, we should agree to disagree.
On Kawhi, there's a lot out there now that the Mills/Gasol signings were the beginning of the discord between Kawhi and Pop. Kawhi wanted Paul George, and the Spurs went with the kulture instead. Now, do I believe that things could have ended differently? Highly unlikely. But damn - Kawhi had George's ear and Pop appears to not even have given that a thought.
I don't blame them for the Gasol deal initially, but always assumed they'd trade him at the end (or at least his contract). Instead they just cut him a check.
Yeah, Mills had interest from other teams. But you don't set the market against yourself at 12:01 of free agency, you let him bring other offers to you and then make a decision.
DDR hasn't proven jack, he's still an issue, and it's scary as hell thinking that they will potentially give a guy who can't show up for the playoffs a max deal or anything near it.
And that's not even counting all the playoff series he's gotten outcoached during over the last several years, but I let those go against the balance of the titles and regular season record Pop's led this franchise too.
The fact all of this has happened and now our young core is openly showing contempt on social media about the situation should be a huge warning to everyone. And given Pop's propensity for telling players they need to get over themselves, he should take his own advice. As should anyone who sticks their head in a hole in the ground to defend him for what he did 5+ years go as if that means anything here now in 2020 with how he is managing and coaching this squad.
Spurs top-end roster talent is clearly below what they enjoyed through most of their long playoff run with guys like Duncan, Manu, Parker, Kawhi, etc. And Pop at 71 is the oldest active coach in the NBA.
Rebuild is needed. Roster and coaching. It was a fantastic long run, but that run and era has ended.
Rebuild is needed. Roster and coaching. It was a fantastic long run, but that run and era has ended.
AG 2000' said:
. Kawhi wanted Paul George, and the Spurs went with the kulture instead. Now, do I believe that things could have ended differently? Highly unlikely. But damn - Kawhi had George's ear and Pop appears to not even have given that a thought.
Where did you hear this? From the reports I heard, George wanted to come but the Spurs and Pacers couldn't find a deal to work. Also, from the Pacers' perspective, doing another trade with the team that completely bent you over in landing Kawhi and Bertans....yea. That was likely never to happen even if the Spurs offered the world. The Spurs would have given up anyone not named Kawhi Leonard IMO.
Here is the thing. Pop has always done it this way. He has always valued culture over talent. He has always sought continuity over sweeping moves. And I think it is accurate that everything was set to keep chugging along right up until Zaza happened. For whatever reason all that downtime allowed a discord to develop.
Pop has been making strange decisions for 20 years. You could easily argue that we should have 2 more championships. He is not without fault. But he does get the benefit of the doubt because he developed the culture and infrastructure to get us there to begin with.
My only beef with the current Pop is he does seem to take losing a lot easier than he used to. He used to have a legendary competitive fire. Maybe he still has it but I've seen signs that I don't like. It's very strange too because he is favoring vets over rookies most of the time.. but they still aren't producing. It's the most uncomfortable series of coaching decisions he's ever had to make.
The craziest part of this is I really enjoy watching this team play most of the time. Lots of interesting talent. They just haven't been able to put it all together consistently.
Pop has been making strange decisions for 20 years. You could easily argue that we should have 2 more championships. He is not without fault. But he does get the benefit of the doubt because he developed the culture and infrastructure to get us there to begin with.
My only beef with the current Pop is he does seem to take losing a lot easier than he used to. He used to have a legendary competitive fire. Maybe he still has it but I've seen signs that I don't like. It's very strange too because he is favoring vets over rookies most of the time.. but they still aren't producing. It's the most uncomfortable series of coaching decisions he's ever had to make.
The craziest part of this is I really enjoy watching this team play most of the time. Lots of interesting talent. They just haven't been able to put it all together consistently.
AG 2000' said:
On Kawhi, there's a lot out there now that the Mills/Gasol signings were the beginning of the discord between Kawhi and Pop. Kawhi wanted Paul George, and the Spurs went with the kulture instead. Now, do I believe that things could have ended differently? Highly unlikely. But damn - Kawhi had George's ear and Pop appears to not even have given that a thought.
We tried to trade for PG13, but didn't have the bullets in the gun to get it done.
Indiana for Sabonis (20yo ottery pick currently putting up 18/13 as an All-star) and Dipo (24yo combo with serious promise putting up 16/5/4 that year with good shooting).
We had nothing they wanted.
Not sure why they didn't want Gasol+Bonner+Zarko Paspaji's rights
Let's look at this.Quote:
And that's not even counting all the playoff series he's gotten outcoached during over the last several years, but I let those go against the balance of the titles and regular season record Pop's led this franchise too.
2019: 7th seed. Lost to 2 seed Nuggets in 7 games. Out coached or out-talented? Yeah, Jokic, JamalMurray, Gary Harris, Paul Millsap, Will Barton are better than DD, LMA, White, Gay, and Forbes
2018: 7th seed. Lost to 2 seed Warriors. Out coached or out talented? Pretty obvious.
2017: Lost to Warriors after Kawhi Was taken out by Zaza. Spurs were winning at the time to a superior Warriors team, too. On the way to the WCF, the Spurs beat one of the best Rockets teams in 20 years.
2016: Embarrassing loss to the #3 Thunder when they had Durant, Ibaka, Adams, and Brodie. Kawhi didn't play good and we wasted Tim's last season. Out coached? Maybe. But they had a ton of talent, too.
2015: Lost to #2 Clippers in 7. This one hurt. Manu playing hurt and it showed. Parker and Green were colder than a witch's tit in a brass bra. That was the peak clippers team, with healthy 25yo Blake Griffin (26/13/6 for the playoffs) Chris Paul (think he was healthy until he blew out his hamstring against the Rockets, put up 22/9 on 50/42/94 shooting in the playoffs), Reddick (44/40/94 shooting in the playoffs), Jordan (13p/13p with .716 shooting in the playoffs), plus Jamal Crawford, Austin Rivers, and Matt Barnes.
2014: BEAT ****ING EVERYONE
2013: Lazy ass Kawhi didn't box out Bosh, decided to just watch the play. Bosh gets and offensive rebound and I had to sleep in the guest room for a week because I was so angry.
2012: Lost to Thunder in the WCF. I think Ibaka hit 300 straight shots from 16 feet. Kawhi was outscored handily by Stephen Jackson, who played 40 less minutes than him over 6 games. Danny Green and I shot the same FG% that series.
Pop consistently out coached in the playoffs? I don't see it. He hasn't had a lot of good hands to play recently. But like everyone here, I'm ready for him to move to Napa.
I miss the Beautiful Game. Probably won't see again any time soon.Guitarsoup said:2014: BEAT ****ING EVERYONEQuote:
And that's not even counting all the playoff series he's gotten outcoached during over the last several years, but I let those go against the balance of the titles and regular season record Pop's led this franchise too.
Guitarsoup said:Let's look at this.Quote:
And that's not even counting all the playoff series he's gotten outcoached during over the last several years, but I let those go against the balance of the titles and regular season record Pop's led this franchise too.
2019: 7th seed. Lost to 2 seed Nuggets in 7 games. Out coached or out-talented? Yeah, Jokic, JamalMurray, Gary Harris, Paul Millsap, Will Barton are better than DD, LMA, White, Gay, and Forbes
2018: 7th seed. Lost to 2 seed Warriors. Out coached or out talented? Pretty obvious.
2017: Lost to Warriors after Kawhi Was taken out by Zaza. Spurs were winning at the time to a superior Warriors team, too. On the way to the WCF, the Spurs beat one of the best Rockets teams in 20 years.
2016: Embarrassing loss to the #3 Thunder when they had Durant, Ibaka, Adams, and Brodie. Kawhi didn't play good and we wasted Tim's last season. Out coached? Maybe. But they had a ton of talent, too.
2015: Lost to #2 Clippers in 7. This one hurt. Manu playing hurt and it showed. Parker and Green were colder than a witch's tit in a brass bra. That was the peak clippers team, with healthy 25yo Blake Griffin (26/13/6 for the playoffs) Chris Paul (think he was healthy until he blew out his hamstring against the Rockets, put up 22/9 on 50/42/94 shooting in the playoffs), Reddick (44/40/94 shooting in the playoffs), Jordan (13p/13p with .716 shooting in the playoffs), plus Jamal Crawford, Austin Rivers, and Matt Barnes.
2014: BEAT ****ING EVERYONE
2013: Lazy ass Kawhi didn't box out Bosh, decided to just watch the play. Bosh gets and offensive rebound and I had to sleep in the guest room for a week because I was so angry.
2012: Lost to Thunder in the WCF. I think Ibaka hit 300 straight shots from 16 feet. Kawhi was outscored handily by Stephen Jackson, who played 40 less minutes than him over 6 games. Danny Green and I shot the same FG% that series.
Pop consistently out coached in the playoffs? I don't see it. He hasn't had a lot of good hands to play recently
. But like everyone here, I'm ready for him to move to Napa.
No, no, no. You're wrong. He's made it abundantly clear that stats/facts/etc don't matter. His baseless opinions are superior.
2012 playoffs also featured the g******ed Kendrick Perkins game. He hit something like 7 of 8 midrange shots. That was infuriating.
If I remember this sequence of events correctly, I was screaming at Pop through the TV because he spiked the football too early by sitting Duncan with a minute left before the Heat made their 4th quarter comeback in Game 6Quote:
2013: Lazy ass Kawhi didn't box out Bosh, decided to just watch the play. Bosh gets and offensive rebound and I had to sleep in the guest room for a week because I was so angry.
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