PatAg said:

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South Platte said:

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This is going to be really painful when Atlanta wins its first playoff series with Young and we get ushered out rudely for the 2nd year in a row by a Clippers team that's going absolutely nowhere.

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eastern conference

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Very true, but does that really make anyone feel better? We're the franchise who has the next face of the NBA, not freaking Atlanta with a wannabe Steph Curry who plays more like Muggsy Bogues.

South Platte said:

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This is going to be really painful when Atlanta wins its first playoff series with Young and we get ushered out rudely for the 2nd year in a row by a Clippers team that's going absolutely nowhere.

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Dallas would rout the Knicks, they can't generate any offense.

South Platte said:

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This is going to be really painful when Atlanta wins its first playoff series with Young and we get ushered out rudely for the 2nd year in a row by a Clippers team that's going absolutely nowhere.

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Imagine if we had Capela over KP.

BallerStaf2003 said:

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Saint Pablo said:

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South Platte said:

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This is going to be really painful when Atlanta wins its first playoff series with Young and we get ushered out rudely for the 2nd year in a row by a Clippers team that's going absolutely nowhere.

---

Imagine if we had Capela over KP.

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Imagine if we played the Knicks in a series, or we're in the east.

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We'd beat the Knicks no doubt, but they have a much better team around Trae than we do around Luka and that is what is so discouraging to me. We really have no chance with how our team is currently constructed unless Luka is playing perfectly for an entire series.

The Shank Ag said:

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PatAg said:

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The Shank Ag said:

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If I could be Rick for one game, I'd rock this tonight.

Starters:
Luka
Tim
DFS
KP
Dwight (for offensive rebounding chances and athleticism)

We would sit in a zone 60+% of the game. Being in a zone mitigates the need for Kleber to start and guard the robot. If they shoot 55% from three, you live with it. What you don't live with is Kawhi getting 20+ from midrange, or letting any of the slew of guys that are killing you around the basket get to the rim. Sink the defense in, get rebounds, don't give near as many shots from within 18 feet.

On offense, you park Tim and DFS around the three point line, have dwight roaming short corner to short corner opposite the ball, and you run P&R with Luka/Kris over and over until you get a clean luka look to shoot or drive, a clean KP roll or pop. If luka gets the drive and the D collapses you look for the oop to Dwight or kick to whichever of Tim and DFS are open for a three ball look. Like in remember the titans "It's like novacaine, give it time and it will work"

When Luka comes out, you switch the P&R person to dwight or Maxi, and tell KP to stay within 6 feet of the basket posting up with everything he has. If it's not there, you stay in the same P&R setup you were in before.


The thing killing the offense more than anything isn't missed open shots by KP or the other guys. It's guys like DFS, Tim, Richardson, and Brunson trying to do too much. Yes, each of these guys can get to the rim and score, but too often they are trying to do what Luka does and throw up some terrible off the dribble jumper or drive into a crowd of guys without finding the open guy. Run the simple P&R offense until a look opens up. If it's not there let Luka do the crazy stuff, or if he's out, dump it inside to KP. If both are out, weather the storm, keep running the same stuff and don't try to be the hero.

---

What team are you watching where you think posting up KP, and dumping it in to KP, are things that can/should happen?

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KP didn't forget to play basketball overnight. He didn't forget how to play against the clippers in one season. He was dominate against them last year before he got hurt. He's been dominate much of his career when he hasn't been hurt. People are giving up on him WAYYYYY too fast and I hope the Mavs front office haven't (i.e. do something stupid like trade him this offseason for pennies on the dollar). At some point he will be a force again. That could be tonight. That could be Friday. Maybe next season. But the time will come and the unicorn will show why he was given that moniker.

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How do you know that?

Imo i think he's done being the player he was. His body betrayed him.

A big part of his game was his mobility, he was like an even tallen Klay Thompson. He doesn't appear to have that in his game anymore.

The Shank Ag said:

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PatAg said:

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The Shank Ag said:

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If I could be Rick for one game, I'd rock this tonight.

Starters:
Luka
Tim
DFS
KP
Dwight (for offensive rebounding chances and athleticism)

We would sit in a zone 60+% of the game. Being in a zone mitigates the need for Kleber to start and guard the robot. If they shoot 55% from three, you live with it. What you don't live with is Kawhi getting 20+ from midrange, or letting any of the slew of guys that are killing you around the basket get to the rim. Sink the defense in, get rebounds, don't give near as many shots from within 18 feet.

On offense, you park Tim and DFS around the three point line, have dwight roaming short corner to short corner opposite the ball, and you run P&R with Luka/Kris over and over until you get a clean luka look to shoot or drive, a clean KP roll or pop. If luka gets the drive and the D collapses you look for the oop to Dwight or kick to whichever of Tim and DFS are open for a three ball look. Like in remember the titans "It's like novacaine, give it time and it will work"

When Luka comes out, you switch the P&R person to dwight or Maxi, and tell KP to stay within 6 feet of the basket posting up with everything he has. If it's not there, you stay in the same P&R setup you were in before.


The thing killing the offense more than anything isn't missed open shots by KP or the other guys. It's guys like DFS, Tim, Richardson, and Brunson trying to do too much. Yes, each of these guys can get to the rim and score, but too often they are trying to do what Luka does and throw up some terrible off the dribble jumper or drive into a crowd of guys without finding the open guy. Run the simple P&R offense until a look opens up. If it's not there let Luka do the crazy stuff, or if he's out, dump it inside to KP. If both are out, weather the storm, keep running the same stuff and don't try to be the hero.

---

What team are you watching where you think posting up KP, and dumping it in to KP, are things that can/should happen?

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I guess it's the former post up player/former coach in me.

Couple things.

There is a difference in dumping it to him "posting up" 10-12 ft from the basket as he's been doing and telling him from block to block is your home for the immediate future. He's 7'3 and athletic. If they try fronting him the entire time, you get him to pin and reverse the ball quick for a dump. Or you get them sucked into thinking you are going to lob it over the front and skip it somebody spotted up the helpside guy is supposed to cover. Kind of like a QB looking off a safety and throwing it the opposite way.

KP didn't forget to play basketball overnight. He didn't forget how to play against the clippers in one season. He was dominate against them last year before he got hurt. He's been dominate much of his career when he hasn't been hurt. People are giving up on him WAYYYYY too fast and I hope the Mavs front office haven't (i.e. do something stupid like trade him this offseason for pennies on the dollar). At some point he will be a force again. That could be tonight. That could be Friday. Maybe next season. But the time will come and the unicorn will show why he was given that moniker.

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Did KP actually ever do these things you tare talking about? I was mostly aware of his highlight reel, and then the scouting report articles that came out after we traded for him. I dont remember him being a force in the post.

KP needs an offseason where he isn't healing and a regular, non-compressed schedule. The last year has just been ****ed. And Rick needs to reset on how he's being used. I'm not ready to give up on him yet although I'd listen to offers

Locked On Mavs has said this could potentially be a difference maker next year and I don't get it at all. He blows in this playoff series because he didn't get a regular offseason last year?

PatAg said:

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The Shank Ag said:

---

PatAg said:

---

The Shank Ag said:

---

If I could be Rick for one game, I'd rock this tonight.

Starters:
Luka
Tim
DFS
KP
Dwight (for offensive rebounding chances and athleticism)

We would sit in a zone 60+% of the game. Being in a zone mitigates the need for Kleber to start and guard the robot. If they shoot 55% from three, you live with it. What you don't live with is Kawhi getting 20+ from midrange, or letting any of the slew of guys that are killing you around the basket get to the rim. Sink the defense in, get rebounds, don't give near as many shots from within 18 feet.

On offense, you park Tim and DFS around the three point line, have dwight roaming short corner to short corner opposite the ball, and you run P&R with Luka/Kris over and over until you get a clean luka look to shoot or drive, a clean KP roll or pop. If luka gets the drive and the D collapses you look for the oop to Dwight or kick to whichever of Tim and DFS are open for a three ball look. Like in remember the titans "It's like novacaine, give it time and it will work"

When Luka comes out, you switch the P&R person to dwight or Maxi, and tell KP to stay within 6 feet of the basket posting up with everything he has. If it's not there, you stay in the same P&R setup you were in before.


The thing killing the offense more than anything isn't missed open shots by KP or the other guys. It's guys like DFS, Tim, Richardson, and Brunson trying to do too much. Yes, each of these guys can get to the rim and score, but too often they are trying to do what Luka does and throw up some terrible off the dribble jumper or drive into a crowd of guys without finding the open guy. Run the simple P&R offense until a look opens up. If it's not there let Luka do the crazy stuff, or if he's out, dump it inside to KP. If both are out, weather the storm, keep running the same stuff and don't try to be the hero.

---

What team are you watching where you think posting up KP, and dumping it in to KP, are things that can/should happen?

---

I guess it's the former post up player/former coach in me.

Couple things.

There is a difference in dumping it to him "posting up" 10-12 ft from the basket as he's been doing and telling him from block to block is your home for the immediate future. He's 7'3 and athletic. If they try fronting him the entire time, you get him to pin and reverse the ball quick for a dump. Or you get them sucked into thinking you are going to lob it over the front and skip it somebody spotted up the helpside guy is supposed to cover. Kind of like a QB looking off a safety and throwing it the opposite way.

KP didn't forget to play basketball overnight. He didn't forget how to play against the clippers in one season. He was dominate against them last year before he got hurt. He's been dominate much of his career when he hasn't been hurt. People are giving up on him WAYYYYY too fast and I hope the Mavs front office haven't (i.e. do something stupid like trade him this offseason for pennies on the dollar). At some point he will be a force again. That could be tonight. That could be Friday. Maybe next season. But the time will come and the unicorn will show why he was given that moniker.

---

Did KP actually ever do these things you tare talking about? I was mostly aware of his highlight reel, and then the scouting report articles that came out after we traded for him. I dont remember him being a force in the post.

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This is full of it (season he got hurt in NY). Before he fell in love with staying back and jacking up long 3s or driving against smaller, better on the ball defenders, he had his back to the basket. (the video starts with a few drives but there's several stretches of nothing but post ups). He has great ball fakes, great turn around motion, great up and unders, even a few hooks, and can attack the rim when somebody bites on a fake.

I have a feeling a lot of people didn't watch his career in New York.

I get it, people love to hate on him for what he's paid vs what he has produced so far. He's the on-team villain of social media and message boards. But the dude is still special, he's not washed up.

I just don't think he's physically right. Had the bubble, got hurt, then this season is cranking up not all that long after. Just think the whole thing has been very disruptive

When was the last time we've seen any of that in a Mavs uniform?

No one is questioning his 'unicorn' status during his stint in NY. The question is; "After a litany of lower body injuries, is he now merely a hobbled horse?"

M.C. Swag said:

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When was the last time we've seen any of that in a Mavs uniform?

No one is questioning his 'unicorn' status during his stint in NY. The question is; "After a litany of lower body injuries, is he now merely a hobbled horse?"

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He dominated the Clippers less than a year ago in the playoffs until he got hurt. And did it in long stretches last year before COVID. Sure, maybe his injury from last year's playoffs and what he has gone through this year is the straw that hurt the camel's back, and he will never be productive again. But people are acting like they haven't seen KP play well in 4-5 years or that he's never been productive after his injury in NY. That's just not true.

I'm as frustrated as everyone with how he's playing and how he's being used by Carlisle. But I'm not ready to give up on him yet. He's our best option going forward. The chance of him ever returning to unicorn status may be low, but at least there is a chance. Trading him for pennies on the dollar would mean we basically have no chance of being better than we currently are for the foreseeable future in my opinion. I can't see us getting much for him and there are no free agents that I'd be excited to get this summer.

M.C. Swag said:

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South Platte said:

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PatAg said:

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South Platte said:

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This is going to be really painful when Atlanta wins its first playoff series with Young and we get ushered out rudely for the 2nd year in a row by a Clippers team that's going absolutely nowhere.

---

eastern conference

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Very true, but does that really make anyone feel better? We're the franchise who has the next face of the NBA, not freaking Atlanta with a wannabe Steph Curry who plays more like Muggsy Bogues.

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I legit dgaf about the Hawks. Congrats on winning 1 round. Id still rather have Luka.

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Of course. No team would want Young over Luka, but they will always be linked and right now Atlanta's success and our potential failure is embarrassing and discouraging. Our inability to win a series with Luka is going to become a story.

For a franchise that hasn't won a playoff series since the 2011 Finals, I think winning 1 playoff series would be huge and something to build on.

Hopefully we still find a way to win this series.

mavsfan4ever said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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When was the last time we've seen any of that in a Mavs uniform?

No one is questioning his 'unicorn' status during his stint in NY. The question is; "After a litany of lower body injuries, is he now merely a hobbled horse?"

---

He dominated the Clippers less than a year ago in the playoffs until he got hurt. And did it in long stretches last year before COVID. Sure, maybe his injury from last year's playoffs and what he has gone through this year is the straw that hurt the camel's back, and he will never be productive again. But people are acting like they haven't seen KP play well in 4-5 years or that he's never been productive after his injury in NY. That's just not true.

I'm as frustrated as everyone with how he's playing and how he's being used by Carlisle. But I'm not ready to give up on him yet. He's our best option going forward. The chance of him ever returning to unicorn status may be low, but at least there is a chance. Trading him for pennies on the dollar would mean we basically have no chance of being better than we currently are for the foreseeable future in my opinion. I can't see us getting much for him and there are no free agents that I'd be excited to get this summer.

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He dominated in 2 games....and that was mostly hot jump shooting. Like, if you watch that NY highlight reel and still believe thats the same player that's been on the court for the Mavs, then our eyes are just seeing different things.

I'm not saying we should trade KP for pennies on the dollar but at the same time the NBA isn't a league where teams can afford to live with "sunk cost fallacies."

I agree he doesn't seem to move like he used to. I'm not sure if that's because bulking up cost him some mobility, if it's the injuries that have worn him down and made him less fluid, if he's not as free moving because of the offense he's playing in and doesn't feel like he is allowed to move everywhere on the court, or a combination of all of the above. It's probably a little of all of it.

But when I watch that video, I also notice that the positions the Knicks are putting him in are completely different than how we use him. And their players are actively looking for him. But I guess it's a chicken or the egg issue. Is he not performing well because Carlisle isn't using him properly and the players aren't looking for him enough? Or is Carlisle choosing not to use him and the players aren't looking for him because they know he's not the same player now?

South Platte said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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South Platte said:

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PatAg said:

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South Platte said:

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This is going to be really painful when Atlanta wins its first playoff series with Young and we get ushered out rudely for the 2nd year in a row by a Clippers team that's going absolutely nowhere.

---

eastern conference

---

Very true, but does that really make anyone feel better? We're the franchise who has the next face of the NBA, not freaking Atlanta with a wannabe Steph Curry who plays more like Muggsy Bogues.

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I legit dgaf about the Hawks. Congrats on winning 1 round. Id still rather have Luka.

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Of course. No team would want Young over Luka, but they will always be linked and right now Atlanta's success and our potential failure is embarrassing and discouraging. Our inability to win a series with Luka is going to become a story.

For a franchise that hasn't won a playoff series since the 2011 Finals, I think winning 1 playoff series would be huge and something to build on.

Hopefully we still find a way to win this series.

---

I just don't understand how the two situations are connected. Yea we traded Trae for Luka...but nothing else applies to the 2 teams and their playoff series. Like, were you embarrassed for the Hawks when they didn't even get invited to the bubble last year?

The Mavs won more games than the Hawks in a better conference and are tied with a better team in the first round. You'd have to actively ignore all that context to draw any conclusion that leads YOU to be embarrassed of the Mavs compared to whatever tf the Hawks are doing.

mavsfan4ever said:

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I agree he doesn't seem to move like he used to. I'm not sure if that's because bulking up cost him some mobility, if it's the injuries that have worn him down and made him less fluid, if he's not as free moving because of the offense he's playing in and doesn't feel like he is allowed to move everywhere on the court, or a combination of all of the above. It's probably a little of all of it.

But when I watch that video, I also notice that the positions the Knicks are putting him in are completely different than how we use him. And their players are actively looking for him. But I guess it's a chicken or the egg issue. Is he not performing well because Carlisle isn't using him properly and the players aren't looking for him enough? Or is Carlisle choosing not to use him and the players aren't looking for him because they know he's not the same player now?

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HOW? When i watch that video i see a guy that sets hard screens and fights to seal his man in the paint. KP doesn't do any of that. And whenever we do toss him the ball in the paint, he literally gets moved off his spot by ANYONE. The guy in that video that would power dribble through multiple defenders making hard contact to flush a dunk is light years away from the player we have.

KP's offensive portfolio has regressed almost entirely to spot up shooting and turnaround fadeaways.

I know he’s playing better but this is a mechanical play. Right foot drop step, two handed power dribble, dunk. Elementary basketball. That is not what happened pic.twitter.com/V150YFVixs

— Kirk (@KirkSeriousFace) May 31, 2021

Another thing from my Game 3 analysis article is KP's post-ups.

It's been a rough series, KP scored 5 points on 9 possessions. Watched all 9 again, 6 of 9 were against guards.

Non-Luka KP lineups really struggle to score (-17 for the series). They need to get KP going somehow pic.twitter.com/yCsvoYTeh9

— Iztok Franko (@iztok_franko) May 29, 2021

If you believe that the unicorn can come back, fine. I actually love the optimism. But I can't accept the postulation that he's shown it's still in him to be that again. It's blind faith imo if that's what you're arguing.

I know stats don't say it all, but in his last season before injury, KP averaged 22.7 points, 6.6 rebounds, and 2.4 blocks per game. He also shot 43.9% from the field, and 39.5% from distance, all on an average of 20.6 shots per game. That was in 48 games, and he hoisted 228 3s.

This season, he's played 43 games (so 5 fewer). He's averaged 20.1 points, 8.9 rebounds, and 1.3 blocks per game. He's shooting 47.6% from the field, 37.6% from distance, all on an average of 18.5 shots per game. And he's jacked 258 3s.

So what do we know about 2021 KP compared to pre-injury KP?

1. He's averaging 2.6 fewer points.
2. He's shooting 2 fewer attempts.
3. His shooting from the field is up 4 percentage points.
4. This is despite the fact that he's shooting 1.2 more 3s per game, and the fact that he's shooting 2% worse from 3 this season.
5. He's averaging 2.3 more rebounds.
6. He's blocking 1.1 fewer shots.
7. He's shooting 2 fewer attempts.

If you want to go deeper, compared to his last season with the Knicks, this year:

• He has more dunks in fewer games
• A higher percentage of his 2PA are from inside 10 feet
• His FG% inside 10 feet is way up

Bottom line: I expected KP to take a step forward from what he was with the Knicks since he was playing with Luka, and obviously that hasn't happened for whatever reason.

But offensively, he's pretty close to the same player statistically. Watching him move looks different, but production-wise it's pretty similar and has even improved in some areas. There's no way I would have guessed that he's spending more shots inside 10 feet this season compared to his last Knicks campaign.

The problem with KP is his defense. That's where the injury shows up. His DBPM is down, as are his number of blocks and his block percentage. Personally, I think he's playing timid on defense and babying his leg.

MW03 said:

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Bottom line: I expected KP to take a step forward from what he was with the Knicks since he was playing with Luka, and obviously that hasn't happened for whatever reason.

But offensively, he's pretty close to the same player statistically. Watching him move looks different, but production-wise it's pretty similar and has even improved in some areas. There's no way I would have guessed that he's spending more shots inside 10 feet this season compared to his last Knicks campaign.

The problem with KP is his defense. That's where the injury shows up. His DBPM is down, as are his number of blocks and his block percentage. Personally, I think he's playing timid on defense and babying his leg.

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Interesting snapshot. Appreciate you putting this together.

I truly believe Carlisle and Luka are the only reason KPs raw box score numbers are as good as they are because the player wearing the Mavs uniform is NOT the same guy that was in NY.

Luka is obviously hoarding the lion's share of the team's usage so there's a limit to what other players can do when they get the ball, but it's alarming to me that KP can't create his own shot anymore. His "% of FGs assisted" is alarmingly high and I'd hazard to guess that if you look strictly at the 4 games of this playoff series, it's got to be over 90%.

South Platte said:

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PatAg said:

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South Platte said:

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This is going to be really painful when Atlanta wins its first playoff series with Young and we get ushered out rudely for the 2nd year in a row by a Clippers team that's going absolutely nowhere.

---

eastern conference

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Very true, but does that really make anyone feel better? We're the franchise who has the next face of the NBA, not freaking Atlanta with a wannabe Steph Curry who plays more like Muggsy Bogues.

---

Mavericks have the face of the NBA, but can't get any talent around him. When the hell is that going to change?

Grapesoda2525 said:

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South Platte said:

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PatAg said:

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South Platte said:

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This is going to be really painful when Atlanta wins its first playoff series with Young and we get ushered out rudely for the 2nd year in a row by a Clippers team that's going absolutely nowhere.

---

eastern conference

---

Very true, but does that really make anyone feel better? We're the franchise who has the next face of the NBA, not freaking Atlanta with a wannabe Steph Curry who plays more like Muggsy Bogues.

---

Mavericks have the face of the NBA, but can't get any talent around him. When the hell is that going to change?

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"This off season" says the FO every off season.

A buddy said he thinks Kawhi is the best player in this series...where do y'all think this series would sit if Luka and Kawhi swapped squads? I genuinely believe the Clips would have swept.

Saint Pablo said:

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A buddy said he thinks Kawhi is the best player in this series...where do y'all think this series would sit if Luka and Kawhi swapped squads? I genuinely believe the Clips would have swept.

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It depends on if Kawhi is still allowed to push off with impunity like he does every time he goes to the hole. It's like there's a different set of rules for him and I don't know if they'd give him that leeway in Dallas.

Just an area where Dončić will get better with years as his defense & rep with the ref improves.

The other area for Dončić is improving the use of his physicality on drives. Kawhi is great at doing a subtle push with an off-hand...to make space on his drives. pic.twitter.com/P5Qx3KxGdF

— Iztok Franko (@iztok_franko) June 2, 2021

Saint Pablo said:

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A buddy said he thinks Kawhi is the best player in this series...where do y'all think this series would sit if Luka and Kawhi swapped squads? I genuinely believe the Clips would have swept.

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Does Kawhi have a hurt neck in this scenario?

I think we are having 2 different discussions. I'm not saying he was never good for the Mavs, Im saying the way he is playing right now he is not capable of doing the things you want him to do.

Kawhi is a basketball robot. I've never seen a better midrange shooter that can also drain from deep, get to the rack, and play defense. He may be the most complete player to ever grace the NBA

Rick is either crazy or a genius. Probably both

Boban Marjanovic's expected to replace Maxi Kleber in the Mavericks' starting lineup for Game 5, a league source tells me, as Ty Lue just predicted in his pre-game presser.

— tim cato (@tim_cato) June 3, 2021

PatAg said:

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I think we are having 2 different discussions. I'm not saying he was never good for the Mavs, Im saying the way he is playing right now he is not capable of doing the things you want him to do.

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I agree with this. KP is playing awful right now. No arguing that.

I was just pointing out that it's not accurate to say he has never been productive or never dominated for stretches in his time here. With the way the media and most fans are acting, you'd think his last good season was 5 years ago and he's played like this his entire time with the Mavs. Could he have been better last year, maybe a little. But he was pretty damn good and I don't think anyone expected much more than that. If he was much better than what he showed last year, he'd be a legit superstar/all nba candidate. Hell, he was already second team all bubble.

awrollins said:

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Rick is either crazy or a genius. Probably both

Boban Marjanovic's expected to replace Maxi Kleber in the Mavericks' starting lineup for Game 5, a league source tells me, as Ty Lue just predicted in his pre-game presser.

— tim cato (@tim_cato) June 3, 2021

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Haha well it'll be interesting at least.

BOBAN!!

I quite literally do not care what we get for him, I want KP's sorry ass out of here. I'm 6'1, out of shape, and have no basketball experience outside of rec hoops and I'm not confident his soft ass could drive to the rack on me.