Rick Carlisle on Luka Doncic: "Even before this series started, I think he's proven he's a top-5 player in the world. This series certainly validates that. We've just got to keep building the team around him. This is going to be an important offseason on many levels."
— Callie Caplan (@CallieCaplan) June 6, 2021
***Official 2020-2021 Dallas Mavericks Season Thread***
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So you just live in a fantasy world, got it.
What dramatic injury has he sustained since showing he can clearly operate at a high level just several months ago? Dude looked as good as he ever has for about an 8 week stretch.
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Well, after about an hour of sadness, I'm ready to discuss the offseason! Is JRich's option a player or team option? How much money are y'all willing to give Timmy?
Infection_Ag11 said:PatAg said:You are operating under the assumption that KP is going to recover and gain his mobility back.Infection_Ag11 said:South Platte said:Infection_Ag11 said:
They can't do anything with KP for at least two years, and like I said before his absence in this series was largely a product of matchups and scheme. He's a 20/10 guy in most series he'll be involved in going forward.
They need at least one more D and 3 guy and one more guy who can create his own shot.
You and some other posters on here know way more about matchups than I do, but true superstars don't get neutralized through matchups. I guess KP will max out at being a good #3 star, not the #2 we were hoping for. Nothing wrong with keeping him around for the long haul but we need to get a huge fish to sign.
KP is a very unique player (as in he's really the only type of player like him in the league) and has a very unique weakness because he's not a complete, superstar type of player. There's one type of defender that can just completely shut him down, and it's the 6'8"-6'9" great defending wing with both size and length. He can't park himself at the elbow and shoot free throws all night like he can against smaller guys, and he can't go by them like he can bigs and less athletic traditional forward. Because he's so tall and upright, he's not gonna be able to take these defenders off the dribble like he can traditional forwards and centers (for similar reasons that 6'4" corners suck in man coverage against smaller receivers) and because he's so slight and weak for his size they can body him out of his spots I'm inside 20 feet or so. They're also so long he can't shoot uncontested jumpers over them. So really he can't do anything except hit the occasional open shot on a lockout against such defenders.
Well, there's only about 10 guys in the league like that and the Clippers have 3 of them (PG, Kawhi, MM). Two of them are top 5 wing defenders in the world. They parked one of those three on him about 80% of the series and forgot about him.
It's part of the reason they are such a terrible matchup for Dallas. They can completely neutralize one of the Mavs two best players without really having to do anything or sacrifice any other aspect of their defense.
He averaged almost 25/10 when Luka was out earlier this year, and hasn't sustained anything more than a minor ankle sprain since.
This x 100. I wish we had played someone different in the playoffs just so KP would have played better and the game plan would have been different. KP was great last year and was good for most of this year. It was a terrible matchup and the game plan took him out of this series. He did what the coaching staff asked him to do. And it worked for the most part bc it let Luka get a ton of open space. Luka is amazing but KP spacing the floor and taking a top defender to the corner helped him get his points this series.
Im still waiting on an explanation from Carlisle regarding playing Burke over Brunson. I honestly thought Brunson must be hurt but then he played in the 4th. I honestly can't even make up a possible explanation for that. I've always loved rick but that's completely ridiculous. Ive never advocated for letting him go but maybe a new voice is needed at this point. He's made multiple move that have left me scratching my head.
I don't expect us to let him go. And if we did I'm sure he'd do great with another team. But his moves in game 7 were mind boggling to me.
I don't expect us to let him go. And if we did I'm sure he'd do great with another team. But his moves in game 7 were mind boggling to me.
Infection_Ag11 said:
What dramatic injury has he sustained since showing he can clearly operate at a high level just several months ago? Dude looked as good as he ever has for about an 8 week stretch.
Ok top of your point which I agree with, at what point do we just say it's taking too much time for him to be what we were hoping he would be?
It's been like 2 years since the trade. I mean cmon. He's just not a top tier player.
BallerStaf2003 said:Infection_Ag11 said:
What dramatic injury has he sustained since showing he can clearly operate at a high level just several months ago? Dude looked as good as he ever has for about an 8 week stretch.
Ok top of your point which I agree with, at what point do we just say it's taking too much time for him to be what we were hoping he would be?
It's been like 2 years since the trade. I mean cmon. He's just not a top tier player.
He was always meant to be a #2. At his best, he is that. This summer he has a full offseason not coming off injury for the first time in 4 years. I would wait and see what this coming season brings. I also think that, even if he is just a #3 most nights, you can win with Luka plus two guys like that.
So KP either needs to be a consistently good sidekick and they just need to add defense and shooting/ball handling, or they need to go get another fringe all-star caliber player to pair up with those two.
I will say they need to figure it out, because everything I've heard is that Luka has a very different personality from Dirk and will not stick around if he's not getting help. He'll bolt for a super team if we consistently get knocked out in round 1.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
And I wouldn't blame him one bit. He has to get some serious help.
awrollins said:
Well, after about an hour of sadness, I'm ready to discuss the offseason! Is JRich's option a player or team option? How much money are y'all willing to give Timmy?
Player option. But he cost himself $$$ this year and stands to lose more next year if he stacks another stinker year here with it, so I expect him to opt out. He can still get a decent amount for multiple years to make it worth walking away from 1 for $11
I really do think this team is snake bit when it comes to playoff matchups. Ever since golden state in 2007, it seems like we always get the one team we really don't want and often it's in the first round.Infection_Ag11 said:Southlake said:
Well, I'm disappointed but am sure we couldn't win the next round. But neither can the Clippers; they're done.
Great job with a team still building. Every team needs to make adjustments. The KP experiment was a flop. Can we get something for him? Or is he relegated to a very expensive role player. Who's Cuban gonna get?
But the joke is on the Clippers: they tanked to play the Mavs and the Mavs took them to 7 exhausting games.
The frustrating thing is we actually matchup better against Utah, and especially Denver/Phoenix. The latter two can't defend KP or Luka really at all.
I remember we had the 2 seed one year and got screwed over by drawing a healthy #7 San Antonio team that was hurt all year, but suddenly had their legendary 3 healthy and ready to go.
I guarantee you we didn't want the clippers last year or this year.
Belichick and popovich are masters at manipulating the matchups. I think the Mavericks are so averse to tank or lose games on purpose to manipulate matchups that it hurts them when the playoffs comes around.
The clock is definitely ticking on Luka here. Have to make progress quickly because I do think he's the type that would bolt. I do think making KP work after a healthy offseason while supplementing as best they can is likely their best bet. Given what KP is still owed, he's not a good trade asset. I also think the Clippers being a bad matchup have made the situation with KP seem worse than it is
Southlake said:
Well, I'm disappointed but am sure we couldn't win the next round. But neither can the Clippers; they're done.
Great job with a team still building. Every team needs to make adjustments. The KP experiment was a flop. Can we get something for him? Or is he relegated to a very expensive role player. Who's Cuban gonna get?
But the joke is on the Clippers: they tanked to play the Mavs and the Mavs took them to 7 exhausting games.
Yeah totally. The Clippers must be so embarrassed by this. Excellent prank!
Infection_Ag11 said:BallerStaf2003 said:Infection_Ag11 said:
What dramatic injury has he sustained since showing he can clearly operate at a high level just several months ago? Dude looked as good as he ever has for about an 8 week stretch.
Ok top of your point which I agree with, at what point do we just say it's taking too much time for him to be what we were hoping he would be?
It's been like 2 years since the trade. I mean cmon. He's just not a top tier player.
He was always meant to be a #2. At his best, he is that. This summer he has a full offseason not coming off injury for the first time in 4 years. I would wait and see what this coming season brings. I also think that, even if he is just a #3 most nights, you can win with Luka plus two guys like that.
So KP either needs to be a consistently good sidekick and they just need to add defense and shooting/ball handling, or they need to go get another fringe all-star caliber player to pair up with those two.
I will say they need to figure it out, because everything I've heard is that Luka has a very different personality from Dirk and will not stick around if he's not getting help. He'll bolt for a super team if we consistently get knocked out in round 1.
Have you told him that? Somehow he still thinks he deserves the ball more despite all the evidence to the contrary.
Btw, don't think I've ever disagreed with your posts on politics, here, or premium. Thank you for your perspective.
Can you imagine being this delusional?
Kristaps Porzingis on his role this series and in future with Mavs: "There's a little bit of a mental battle because that's not what I'm used to and where I'm most comfortable. ... Whatever I do, it seems like it's always something, so I just try to be as professional as I can."
— Callie Caplan (@CallieCaplan) June 6, 2021
Grapesoda2525 said:I really do think this team is snake bit when it comes to playoff matchups. Ever since golden state in 2007, it seems like we always get the one team we really don't want and often it's in the first round.Infection_Ag11 said:Southlake said:
Well, I'm disappointed but am sure we couldn't win the next round. But neither can the Clippers; they're done.
Great job with a team still building. Every team needs to make adjustments. The KP experiment was a flop. Can we get something for him? Or is he relegated to a very expensive role player. Who's Cuban gonna get?
But the joke is on the Clippers: they tanked to play the Mavs and the Mavs took them to 7 exhausting games.
The frustrating thing is we actually matchup better against Utah, and especially Denver/Phoenix. The latter two can't defend KP or Luka really at all.
I remember we had the 2 seed one year and got screwed over by drawing a healthy #7 San Antonio team that was hurt all year, but suddenly had their legendary 3 healthy and ready to go.
I guarantee you we didn't want the clippers last year or this year.
Belichick and popovich are masters at manipulating the matchups. I think the Mavericks are so averse to tank or lose games on purpose to manipulate matchups that it hurts them when the playoffs comes around.
The organization reportedly really wanted Denver, because they have had a lot of success against them and Dallas is a terrible matchup for them. I think we'd have waxed them in 5 or 6 games.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Mark Cuban tells ESPN that he will not consider a coaching change. "Let me tell you how I look at coaching. You don't make a change to make a change. Unless you have someone that you know is much, much, much better, the grass is rarely greener on the other side." https://t.co/Rmr1411xBl
— Tim MacMahon (@espn_macmahon) June 6, 2021
I think Cuban is right to keep Carlisle. The problem is Cuban and trader Donnie can't ever draft anyone really good besides luka and they can't convince anyone with talent to willingly choose coming to the Mavericks.
Luka was drafted, KP was traded for, hardaway was traded for.
When's the last time we convinced someone good to come here?
Luka was drafted, KP was traded for, hardaway was traded for.
When's the last time we convinced someone good to come here?
Dude Brunson couldn't play this series. He was being hunted on D and was tossing up brick after brick. In the last 4 games he scored a total of 18 points on 22 shot attempts and he refuses to pass the ball. Burke was the only guard on the team who hadn't played so Rick played him. He literally went down the roster and played every single vet we had until they proved they couldn't be relied on.
I'd have rather seen Hypeman Hinton than Burke
Grapesoda2525 said:
I think Cuban is right to keep Carlisle. The problem is Cuban and trader Donnie can't ever draft anyone really good besides luka and they can't convince anyone with talent to willingly choose coming to the Mavericks.
Luka was drafted, KP was traded for, hardaway was traded for.
When's the last time we convinced someone good to come here?
The hope would be that Luka's presence makes us a more appealing spot but I agree. The front office hasn't been able to assemble a "good" team in about a decade now.
I also think you misunderstand me, I think KP at his best IS an all star player. I just haven't seen him play that way most of this year, and he definitely doesn't play like the player he was in New York.
There IS a chance that he regains some of that mobility/ability in the offseason, of course. I also dont think there is any way we get any value if we decide to trade him either.
Ideal world, KP spends the offseason developing some of that Dirk ability in the post. Whether thats handling doubles better, passing out of it better, learning to recognize when to go quick. Or even developing a more consistent turn around jumper. It's crazy how bad his shot looked this postseason.
There IS a chance that he regains some of that mobility/ability in the offseason, of course. I also dont think there is any way we get any value if we decide to trade him either.
Ideal world, KP spends the offseason developing some of that Dirk ability in the post. Whether thats handling doubles better, passing out of it better, learning to recognize when to go quick. Or even developing a more consistent turn around jumper. It's crazy how bad his shot looked this postseason.
Mavs fans last year thought by luka showing what he could do in the bubble against the hated clippers would get free agents to actually take us seriously, but free agents reacted to Cuban and Donnie like they were the fat kid without deodorant at the 7th grade dance.jtstanley4621 said:Grapesoda2525 said:
I think Cuban is right to keep Carlisle. The problem is Cuban and trader Donnie can't ever draft anyone really good besides luka and they can't convince anyone with talent to willingly choose coming to the Mavericks.
Luka was drafted, KP was traded for, hardaway was traded for.
When's the last time we convinced someone good to come here?
The hope would be that Luka's presence makes us a more appealing spot but I agree. The front office hasn't been able to assemble a "good" team in about a decade now.
Will taking the clippers to 7 games change anything? I'm skeptical. Any player who watched that series could see that luka is a bad ass and he desperately needs help, but it seems like all of the guys who don't need money anymore just want to play for the clippers, Lakers, nets, or heat and don't take anyone else's calls at all.
They have to figure out their identity on offense. That said, the correct answer includes Luka and KP on the floor, and you go from there. This entire offense of Luka driving right, getting the defender on his butt cheek, and ad libbing doesn't get enough out of the rest of the team. He has to learn how to throw an entry pass into the block, reverse the ball, rely on a teammate to handle the ball...all of this involves playing through Porzingis regularly.
I also would like to see Powell more. You get Porzingis closer to the rim, then Powell functions more like OT did with the Rockets. I know, old school, but offensive rebounding is still a thing.
I also would like to see Powell more. You get Porzingis closer to the rim, then Powell functions more like OT did with the Rockets. I know, old school, but offensive rebounding is still a thing.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
jtstanley4621 said:Grapesoda2525 said:
I think Cuban is right to keep Carlisle. The problem is Cuban and trader Donnie can't ever draft anyone really good besides luka and they can't convince anyone with talent to willingly choose coming to the Mavericks.
Luka was drafted, KP was traded for, hardaway was traded for.
When's the last time we convinced someone good to come here?
The hope would be that Luka's presence makes us a more appealing spot but I agree. The front office hasn't been able to assemble a "good" team in about a decade now.
When does Luka become a free agent? Can't help but feel like there is little chance he stays in Dallas
Pretty sure next year is his last under contract, and then a year of him being a restricted free agent.
He will very likely sign his extension this off-season. It is not time to hit the panic button just yet.
wangus12 said:jtstanley4621 said:Grapesoda2525 said:
I think Cuban is right to keep Carlisle. The problem is Cuban and trader Donnie can't ever draft anyone really good besides luka and they can't convince anyone with talent to willingly choose coming to the Mavericks.
Luka was drafted, KP was traded for, hardaway was traded for.
When's the last time we convinced someone good to come here?
The hope would be that Luka's presence makes us a more appealing spot but I agree. The front office hasn't been able to assemble a "good" team in about a decade now.
When does Luka become a free agent? Can't help but feel like there is little chance he stays in Dallas
MJ won a title in his 8th season, I think. He had to wait for some guys to get old. Wouldn't it be nice if Luka added something to his game instead of looking for different teammates? How about a back to the basket game? Passing out of double teams in the post? 2 man pick and roll? Get better at FT's?
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
Of course Luka has areas to work on. I seriously doubt anyone, including him, doesn't know that. But if you list the 10 biggest issues on the Mavs, the 22 year old needing to fine tune his game won't be there, with the possible exception of FTs at #10.
The only major thing on that list I see for Luka is bumping his FT % up into the high 80s. He developed a really strong mid range game. I think I'd like to see him really develop his catch and shoot 3, for possessions when another player is handling the rock. He showed a HUGE increase on his 3s off the dribble, he kind of transitioned away from his lunging step back 3s, into a "bringing his front foot back to his back foot" stepback. It seemed way more reliable and mechanically sound.94chem said:wangus12 said:jtstanley4621 said:Grapesoda2525 said:
I think Cuban is right to keep Carlisle. The problem is Cuban and trader Donnie can't ever draft anyone really good besides luka and they can't convince anyone with talent to willingly choose coming to the Mavericks.
Luka was drafted, KP was traded for, hardaway was traded for.
When's the last time we convinced someone good to come here?
The hope would be that Luka's presence makes us a more appealing spot but I agree. The front office hasn't been able to assemble a "good" team in about a decade now.
When does Luka become a free agent? Can't help but feel like there is little chance he stays in Dallas
MJ won a title in his 8th season, I think. He had to wait for some guys to get old. Wouldn't it be nice if Luka added something to his game instead of looking for different teammates? How about a back to the basket game? Passing out of double teams in the post? 2 man pick and roll? Get better at FT's?
I think, obviously, this is a huge off-season for KP as well. Can he truly get healthy and gain back some of what he lost in mobility? Can he add to his game ( he is also still a young player at 25)? He's essentially not had a healthy offseason in 3 years, and it would be best for us if he did actually develop into the player that deserves the contract he gets.
I'd say he needs to fix whatever is mechanically broken in his shot, it looked extremely off to end the season. Then just spend 2-3 months in the mid-post learning to read double teams, and either passing out of it or developing a reliable jumper from it.
June 22 - NBA Draft Lottery
June 29 - NBA Draft Day
Aug 2 - teams can start negotiations with free agents at 5 pm
Aug 6 - Teams can officially start signing players and completing trades
That's a long wait. The way I see it, are likely course is a combination of a free agent signing of an impact player, and up to 5-6 players leaving the team via trades.
June 29 - NBA Draft Day
Aug 2 - teams can start negotiations with free agents at 5 pm
Aug 6 - Teams can officially start signing players and completing trades
That's a long wait. The way I see it, are likely course is a combination of a free agent signing of an impact player, and up to 5-6 players leaving the team via trades.
Think conditioning and free throws are close to that list if not on it. I won't say they lost two games because of Luka, but if he were better conditioned they wouldn't have looked so bad in the 4th. If Luka wants to be a top 5 player all time, he needs to do both of those things.Ol Jock 99 said:
Of course Luka has areas to work on. I seriously doubt anyone, including him, doesn't know that. But if you list the 10 biggest issues on the Mavs, the 22 year old needing to fine tune his game won't be there, with the possible exception of FTs at #10.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I think Lonzo Ball does a lot of the things the Mavericks need done. Defense, can hit the 3 when open (streakily), and a good passer to ease the burden on Luka/give some diversity to the offense. I think he could be had for what's leftover after resigning Hardaway.
I think you resign Hardaway, because what's out there as unrestricted isn't much different than what Hardaway does, if not worse.
I like Lonzo on this squad. His three point shooting improved a ton this year and he has been pretty stout on D this year.
Pretty bummed out today. Helluva season, but still sad to be out and it stings losing to those guys.
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