5 year, $182 million for Snell.
Unreal.
Unreal.
***** Official Houston Astros 2024-2025 Offseason Thread *****
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Last: 29 min ago by Mathguy64
Dodgers rotation: Snell, Yamamoto, Ohtani (once available), Glasnow, Kershaw (presumably), May, Gonsolin, Miller, more. Also favored for Sasaki. https://t.co/USaq2NPVpn
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) November 27, 2024
The Dodgers estimated luxury tax payroll will be around $321 million in 2025.
— Michael Schwab (@michaelschwab13) November 27, 2024
That's $80M over the tax for the Dodgers.
Insane.
spadilly said:
5 year, $182 million for Snell.
Unreal.
I wonder how much of that is "deferred"
"Some," apparently.
Dodgers’ deal with Blake Snell includes some deferred money, source tells The Athletic. https://t.co/ZO6X9C4b1k
— Fabian Ardaya (@FabianArdaya) November 27, 2024
Snell gets $52M signing bonus #dodgers
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) November 27, 2024
Serious question… what's stopping other teams from giving out the Ohtani deal and cheating system?
Let's go get Juan Soto and pay him all his money starting in 2035 after he's retired with 4 rings for us
Let's go get Juan Soto and pay him all his money starting in 2035 after he's retired with 4 rings for us
Looks like Dodgers ownership is using money made from success to build further on that success.
tjack16 said:
Serious question… what's stopping other teams from giving out the Ohtani deal and cheating system?
Let's go get Juan Soto and pay him all his money starting in 2035 after he's retired with 4 rings for us
There are no other players like Ohtani. No one else wants a super deferred deal. No one else makes crazy money in endorsements like Ohtani.
Farmer1906 said:Snell gets $52M signing bonus #dodgers
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) November 27, 2024
Dodgers’ deal with Blake Snell includes some deferred money, source tells The Athletic. https://t.co/ZO6X9C4b1k
— Fabian Ardaya (@FabianArdaya) November 27, 2024
There is no way the LAD payroll is under $500MM. All that deferred money is bull*****
Insane how much money they are spending. Why bother at this point?
Snell is deferred? So it's what? $3MM/yr, 5 years and a lump sum of $140MM
MLB is going to implode over the Dodgers doing this. Because nobody else can get players to do this.
MLB is going to implode over the Dodgers doing this. Because nobody else can get players to do this.
...and some of y'all wanted those b-stards to win the World Series over the Yankees
F-ck
the
Dodgers
F-ck
the
Dodgers
I was rooting for an asteroid.
TRM said:
I was rooting for an asteroid.
This last world series was the equivalent of hitting the brown note in a stadium full of people
MLB is going to have to get a handle on this deferred pay crap. Is it time for a salary floor and cap in baseball?Mathguy64 said:
Snell is deferred? So it's what? $3MM/yr, 5 years and a lump sum of $140MM
MLB is going to implode over the Dodgers doing this. Because nobody else can get players to do this.
Wabs said:MLB is going to have to get a handle on this deferred pay crap. Is it time for a salary floor and cap in baseball?Mathguy64 said:
Snell is deferred? So it's what? $3MM/yr, 5 years and a lump sum of $140MM
MLB is going to implode over the Dodgers doing this. Because nobody else can get players to do this.
Very much yes. And make it a hard cap with no deferrals. Dodgers are just gaming the system at this point… but the Astros are the cheaters? Sure.
I love Texas Aggie sports, but I love Texas A&M more.
MLB will never do a hard cap. I'm not too worried about the Dodgers shenanigans. It's really on MLB for applying a time value of money that wasn't very accurate because they didn't anticipate high inflation. The deferred amounts should be 100% applied over the life of the contract for luxury tax purposes. If the team wants to pay the money 10 years from now then fine but no guessing game over whether a dollar 10 years from now is worth 1 dollar today or 50 cents.
Dodgers don’t appear to be out on Juan Soto even now. Hard to see them as a favorite however. Even this juggernaut of a team with a great business model and huge revenue has to have limits, no?
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) November 27, 2024
Great business model? I guess it would be easy to just have an endless amount of money to spend. A caveman could do that.
I will give it to the Dodgers in that they do draft well and keep their farm stocked.
They always seem to have pieces available to make the deadline deals that supplement their large FA acquisitions.
They always seem to have pieces available to make the deadline deals that supplement their large FA acquisitions.
So is Blake snell half black half white? Or full white trying to be black? Or half Mexican half white. I literally can't figure out his ethnicity from looking at him.
Go listen to him talk and see what you think
Marvin said:Wabs said:MLB is going to have to get a handle on this deferred pay crap. Is it time for a salary floor and cap in baseball?Mathguy64 said:
Snell is deferred? So it's what? $3MM/yr, 5 years and a lump sum of $140MM
MLB is going to implode over the Dodgers doing this. Because nobody else can get players to do this.
Very much yes. And make it a hard cap with no deferrals. Dodgers are just gaming the system at this point… but the Astros are the cheaters? Sure.
Just say that a deferral counts extra each year against the CBT.
Say you defer $100MM for 5 years. Each year the salary hit for the CBT should be 100/5=20 plus a penalty of 10-20%. Make the penalty the cost of inflation plus the increase in the CBT each year plus a penalty on top of that. Make it cost LA draft picks. I would also limit the amount of deferral. The Shohei deal is a joke in terms of what LA is actually spending each year.
Looking into Dodgers payroll, it looks like they have several deferrals including Ohtani, Freeman and Snell. They are paying Justin Turner in deferral salary in 2025 & 2026.
Ohtani's is the most egregious with a $2 million salary out of $70 million a year. It's just ridiculous.
A few deferrals are ok, but it looks like LA is trying to game the system with the idea that the tax penalties will be raised in the future, so it won't affect it that much.
Manfred sucks as a commissioner, but if he can help solve this competitive balance between the haves and the have-nots as well as the blackout thing, I'll tip my cap and eat crow. I have little faith that he can do that.
Ohtani's is the most egregious with a $2 million salary out of $70 million a year. It's just ridiculous.
A few deferrals are ok, but it looks like LA is trying to game the system with the idea that the tax penalties will be raised in the future, so it won't affect it that much.
Manfred sucks as a commissioner, but if he can help solve this competitive balance between the haves and the have-nots as well as the blackout thing, I'll tip my cap and eat crow. I have little faith that he can do that.
Changes in the future tax rates is irrelevant. They calculate TVM for the contract based on a rate in the CBA over the life of the contract, so Ohtani's $70M a year counts as roughly $46M a year towards the luxury tax this year. The difference between the $46M and $70M never counts towards any tax, it's assumed that $46M in 2024 roughly equates to $70M in 2034 (when it is paid). The fix is simple, just don't apply an interest rate and count all $70M towards the luxury tax now, which will eliminate a lot of incentive for doing this.agproducer said:
Looking into Dodgers payroll, it looks like they have several deferrals including Ohtani, Freeman and Snell. They are paying Justin Turner in deferral salary in 2025 & 2026.
Ohtani's is the most egregious with a $2 million salary out of $70 million a year. It's just ridiculous.
A few deferrals are ok, but it looks like LA is trying to game the system with the idea that the tax penalties will be raised in the future, so it won't affect it that much.
Manfred sucks as a commissioner, but if he can help solve this competitive balance between the haves and the have-nots as well as the blackout thing, I'll tip my cap and eat crow. I have little faith that he can do that.
The bigger issue is what other teams can do this? Would Ohtani do this with the Rays or would he be concerned they have to file for bankruptcy in 2034 when it's time to get paid? Who would buy the Rays in 2034 knowing they are half a billion on the hook for a guy not playing on the team and with a crap market to generate revenue?
redline248 said:
Go listen to him talk and see what you think
I need to hear him say "nuh bruh nuh that's my shoe bruh"
I didn't know that. Great analysis.MaxPower said:Changes in the future tax rates is irrelevant. They calculate TVM for the contract based on a rate in the CBA over the life of the contract, so Ohtani's $70M a year counts as roughly $46M a year towards the luxury tax this year. The difference between the $46M and $70M never counts towards any tax, it's assumed that $46M in 2024 roughly equates to $70M in 2034 (when it is paid). The fix is simple, just don't apply an interest rate and count all $70M towards the luxury tax now, which will eliminate a lot of incentive for doing this.agproducer said:
Looking into Dodgers payroll, it looks like they have several deferrals including Ohtani, Freeman and Snell. They are paying Justin Turner in deferral salary in 2025 & 2026.
Ohtani's is the most egregious with a $2 million salary out of $70 million a year. It's just ridiculous.
A few deferrals are ok, but it looks like LA is trying to game the system with the idea that the tax penalties will be raised in the future, so it won't affect it that much.
Manfred sucks as a commissioner, but if he can help solve this competitive balance between the haves and the have-nots as well as the blackout thing, I'll tip my cap and eat crow. I have little faith that he can do that.
The bigger issue is what other teams can do this? Would Ohtani do this with the Rays or would he be concerned they have to file for bankruptcy in 2034 when it's time to get paid? Who would buy the Rays in 2034 knowing they are half a billion on the hook for a guy not playing on the team and with a crap market to generate revenue?
But -- that is a good point. Other teams are not able to do this -- especially small market teams.
The competitive balance is out of whack. You have to spend to compete, and many cannot. The smaller market teams are just farm teams for the richer, big market clubs.
That has been the case for a long long time.agproducer said:I didn't know that. Great analysis.MaxPower said:Changes in the future tax rates is irrelevant. They calculate TVM for the contract based on a rate in the CBA over the life of the contract, so Ohtani's $70M a year counts as roughly $46M a year towards the luxury tax this year. The difference between the $46M and $70M never counts towards any tax, it's assumed that $46M in 2024 roughly equates to $70M in 2034 (when it is paid). The fix is simple, just don't apply an interest rate and count all $70M towards the luxury tax now, which will eliminate a lot of incentive for doing this.agproducer said:
Looking into Dodgers payroll, it looks like they have several deferrals including Ohtani, Freeman and Snell. They are paying Justin Turner in deferral salary in 2025 & 2026.
Ohtani's is the most egregious with a $2 million salary out of $70 million a year. It's just ridiculous.
A few deferrals are ok, but it looks like LA is trying to game the system with the idea that the tax penalties will be raised in the future, so it won't affect it that much.
Manfred sucks as a commissioner, but if he can help solve this competitive balance between the haves and the have-nots as well as the blackout thing, I'll tip my cap and eat crow. I have little faith that he can do that.
The bigger issue is what other teams can do this? Would Ohtani do this with the Rays or would he be concerned they have to file for bankruptcy in 2034 when it's time to get paid? Who would buy the Rays in 2034 knowing they are half a billion on the hook for a guy not playing on the team and with a crap market to generate revenue?
But -- that is a good point. Other teams are not able to do this -- especially small market teams.
The competitive balance is out of whack. You have to spend to compete, and many cannot. The smaller market teams are just farm teams for the richer, big market clubs.
That drives innovation from the smaller market team. They work to level the playing field by thinking outside the box. The big market teams hire those guys away and implement it with their clubs. Then it all starts over again.
One key issue is that MLB steps in and ruins innovation. It's like when they banned the shift or made relievers pitch to 3 batters. If they mess around and force SP to itch a certain amount, it'll keep hurting the innovative teams.
Absolutely true, but it hasn't seemed this extreme or lopsided before.Farmer1906 said:That has been the case for a long long time.agproducer said:I didn't know that. Great analysis.MaxPower said:Changes in the future tax rates is irrelevant. They calculate TVM for the contract based on a rate in the CBA over the life of the contract, so Ohtani's $70M a year counts as roughly $46M a year towards the luxury tax this year. The difference between the $46M and $70M never counts towards any tax, it's assumed that $46M in 2024 roughly equates to $70M in 2034 (when it is paid). The fix is simple, just don't apply an interest rate and count all $70M towards the luxury tax now, which will eliminate a lot of incentive for doing this.agproducer said:
Looking into Dodgers payroll, it looks like they have several deferrals including Ohtani, Freeman and Snell. They are paying Justin Turner in deferral salary in 2025 & 2026.
Ohtani's is the most egregious with a $2 million salary out of $70 million a year. It's just ridiculous.
A few deferrals are ok, but it looks like LA is trying to game the system with the idea that the tax penalties will be raised in the future, so it won't affect it that much.
Manfred sucks as a commissioner, but if he can help solve this competitive balance between the haves and the have-nots as well as the blackout thing, I'll tip my cap and eat crow. I have little faith that he can do that.
The bigger issue is what other teams can do this? Would Ohtani do this with the Rays or would he be concerned they have to file for bankruptcy in 2034 when it's time to get paid? Who would buy the Rays in 2034 knowing they are half a billion on the hook for a guy not playing on the team and with a crap market to generate revenue?
But -- that is a good point. Other teams are not able to do this -- especially small market teams.
The competitive balance is out of whack. You have to spend to compete, and many cannot. The smaller market teams are just farm teams for the richer, big market clubs.
That drives innovation from the smaller market team. They work to level the playing field by thinking outside the box. The big market teams hire those guys away and implement it with their clubs. Then it all starts over again.
One key issue is that MLB steps in and ruins innovation. It's like when they banned the shift or made relievers pitch to 3 batters. If they mess around and force SP to itch a certain amount, it'll keep hurting the innovative teams.
I'm not sure you would ever get a negotiated agreement on how to handle / count luxury tax in collective bargaining. Each side has vested interests in keeping things the way they are. Steve Cohen, the Steinbrenners, and the folks who run the Dodgers aren't going to give up this loophole because they can use it to their advantage, and other owners are going to want to kill it. There you have division in ownership. On the players union side, they would see any regulation / restriction of deferred money and changes to CBT as a limit on free agency and the open market, and they would push back on it. I'm not sure how the snake gets put back in the can on this one. The next lockout / CBA negotiations have the potential to be more ugly than the last.
MLB only cares about the Dodgers, NYY, Red Sox and maybe the Cubs. They will set rules to favor these teams. The rest can go pound sand. It's a shltty organization.
On this issue, I think all but a few teams are against it so I'd almost guarantee there are changes with how deferred money is treated. From MLB's perspective, this isn't really good for health of the league. No doubt whoever buys the Dodgers has to account for massive amounts of dead money payments. That means they will be bought for less than they otherwise would have, which is a data point that will be used against other owners when they sell.
Mathguy64 said:
There is no way the LAD payroll is under $500MM. All that deferred money is bull*****
Just another indictment on Manfred's abysmal leadership at MLB. All the rev sharing in the form of luxury taxes is completely neutered by the loophole the dodgers are exploiting as a large market team.
By today's money, Snell is getting 5/162.5 for ages 32-36.
Would you prefer Bregman or Snell for that pricepoint?
Would you prefer Bregman or Snell for that pricepoint?
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