millionaires

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Caliber
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In reply to LMCane • 12:11p, 11/10/25
AG
LMCane said:
Just saw a podcast stating the number of households with two million dollars of investable assets (not including home) is:

1.8%

that seems unbelievable!

If you think it sounds too low, it's the "investable assets" part. Lots of people are really rich in real estate, but that wouldn't count as investable assets, so skews the numbers a fair bit.
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BenTheGoodAg
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In reply to Caliber • 12:14p, 11/10/25
AG
So we're back to the real estate argument again as a calculation of net worth...

Assets minus Liabilities
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Caliber
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In reply to BenTheGoodAg • 12:17p, 11/10/25
AG
BenTheGoodAg said:
So we're back to the real estate argument again as a calculation of net worth...

Assets minus Liabilities

Is real estate considered an "investable asset"?

They didn't say Net worth, they said only 1.8% have $2million in investable assets... $2million net worth is about the 90% percentile.
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BenTheGoodAg
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In reply to Caliber • 12:23p, 11/10/25
AG
This thread has always been a Net Worth discussion. LMCane has made multiple passes at trying to reframe this conversation to not include real estate as part of Net Worth. So I'm not surprised to see another post that seems to redirect away from real estate as part of the conversation.

And yes... Real estate can be part of an investment portfolio. Is it liquid like an equity? Perhaps not...
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Proposition Joe
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In reply to LMCane • 12:23p, 11/10/25
LMCane said:
Just saw a podcast stating the number of households with two million dollars of investable assets (not including home) is:

1.8%

that seems unbelievable!


Two key points:

1) It does not include home. Meaning households renting immediately will have a big chunk of investable assets compared to homeowners.

2) "households" casts a pretty wide net. If someone makes $150k/year salary and invests it moderately, assuming a 3% raise each year they've got $1MM in 15 years. So take two people like that who marry each other and you've got a $2MM household.
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62strat
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In reply to Proposition Joe • 1:46p, 11/10/25
AG
Proposition Joe said:
LMCane said:
Just saw a podcast stating the number of households with two million dollars of investable assets (not including home) is:

1.8%

that seems unbelievable!




2) "households" casts a pretty wide net. If someone makes $150k/year salary and invests it moderately, assuming a 3% raise each year they've got $1MM in 15 years. So take two people like that who marry each other and you've got a $2MM household.

yeh, two married people each making $150k, sounds about like the average american family.
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Proposition Joe
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In reply to 62strat • 1:49p, 11/10/25
62strat said:
Proposition Joe said:
LMCane said:
Just saw a podcast stating the number of households with two million dollars of investable assets (not including home) is:

1.8%

that seems unbelievable!




2) "households" casts a pretty wide net. If someone makes $150k/year salary and invests it moderately, assuming a 3% raise each year they've got $1MM in 15 years. So take two people like that who marry each other and you've got a $2MM household.

yeh, two married people each making $150k, sounds about like the average american family.


... which is why that number is 1.8% and not 50%.
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AggieFrog
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1:51p, 11/10/25
AG
Perplexity says it's closer to 4% of US households with >$2M in investable assets. If you further look at households with college graduates, that number increases to 8-10%.
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Ghost of Bisbee
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In reply to BenTheGoodAg • 9:47p, 11/10/25
AG
BenTheGoodAg said:
This thread has always been a Net Worth discussion. LMCane has made multiple passes at trying to reframe this conversation to not include real estate as part of Net Worth. So I'm not surprised to see another post that seems to redirect away from real estate as part of the conversation.

And yes... Real estate can be part of an investment portfolio. Is it liquid like an equity? Perhaps not...


lol this is so true

Primary residence is an asset, therefore it is part of net worth.
I can understand the argument for those who don't want to include their vehicles or jewelry, however those are assets too.

If LMCane wants to exclude their primary residence from their NW calc, more power to em. However, they're wrong
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Texag5324
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In reply to Ghost of Bisbee • 7:56a, 11/11/25
Ghost of Bisbee said:
BenTheGoodAg said:
This thread has always been a Net Worth discussion. LMCane has made multiple passes at trying to reframe this conversation to not include real estate as part of Net Worth. So I'm not surprised to see another post that seems to redirect away from real estate as part of the conversation.

And yes... Real estate can be part of an investment portfolio. Is it liquid like an equity? Perhaps not...


lol this is so true

Primary residence is an asset, therefore it is part of net worth.
I can understand the argument for those who don't want to include their vehicles or jewelry, however those are assets too.

If LMCane wants to exclude their primary residence from their NW calc, more power to em. However, they're wrong



What if they're way underwater on their mortgage, is it still an asset? I think there's a lot of variables to the house being an asset claim.

I know someone who makes less than $40k, doesn't have much money in the bank, and just bought a $285k house with 2% down. I think in his case the house is a liability, he likely won't be able to afford it and it's just extra debt for his finances. But in his mind he thinks, great I'm building equity.

If someone is house poor and cash poor, then can the house they own really be called an asset, especially if it's old and needs a ton of maintenance?
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Proposition Joe
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In reply to Texag5324 • 7:59a, 11/11/25
Only the equity in the house is an asset. The rest isn't owned by you, it's owned by the bank.
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62strat
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In reply to Texag5324 • 8:10a, 11/11/25
AG
Texag5324 said:
Ghost of Bisbee said:
BenTheGoodAg said:
This thread has always been a Net Worth discussion. LMCane has made multiple passes at trying to reframe this conversation to not include real estate as part of Net Worth. So I'm not surprised to see another post that seems to redirect away from real estate as part of the conversation.

And yes... Real estate can be part of an investment portfolio. Is it liquid like an equity? Perhaps not...


lol this is so true

Primary residence is an asset, therefore it is part of net worth.
I can understand the argument for those who don't want to include their vehicles or jewelry, however those are assets too.

If LMCane wants to exclude their primary residence from their NW calc, more power to em. However, they're wrong



What if they're way underwater on their mortgage, is it still an asset? I?


Yes, that's why net worth is assets minus liabilities. In your example, this home is a net negative to your worth. It's not realized until you get rid of it. A home value can fluctuate. Your Liability could decrease or the home value could increase.


Funny, kinda sounds just like a stock now doesn't it?
You think that when you go red on a stock, it simply no longer becomes a part of your net worth calculation or that those stocks are no longer assets?

No one ever said an asset has to always be worth more than its liability to you.
Cars are a great example. Stocks, homes, fine art, a business, nearly any asset could be a net negative to your wealth at some point.
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62strat
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In reply to Proposition Joe • 8:13a, 11/11/25
AG
Proposition Joe said:
Only the equity in the house is an asset. The rest isn't owned by you, it's owned by the bank.


This is worded weird., or wrong.

The house is an asset. The loan is a liability.
The difference, which could be negative, is part of your overall net worth.

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I bleed maroon
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In reply to Proposition Joe • 8:16a, 11/11/25
AG
Proposition Joe said:
Only the equity in the house is an asset. The rest isn't owned by you, it's owned by the bank.

Incorrect, mi amigo. The house is an asset. The loan is a liability. The difference between the two is the equity (which can be either positive or negative). The bank owns nothing, unless they foreclose.

Don't throw around accounting terms you don't understand lightly.

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Proposition Joe
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In reply to 62strat • 8:22a, 11/11/25
62strat said:
Proposition Joe said:
Only the equity in the house is an asset. The rest isn't owned by you, it's owned by the bank.


This is worded weird., or wrong.

The house is an asset. The loan is a liability.
The difference, which could be negative, is part of your overall net worth.


I was wording in the framework of the post I was replying to - yes the house is the asset and the loan is a liability, but as far as what actually increases your net worth -- positive equity in the house is what matters.

A $1MM house with $1MM loan still due is a wash on your net worth.
A $1MM house with $500k loan still due is +$500k on your net worth.
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Caliber
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8:26a, 11/11/25
AG
...and this is why this thread is 81 pages long. 2 pages overall of talking about people with a Networth of $1million and another 79 discussing what we should count in that calculation?
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I bleed maroon
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In reply to Proposition Joe • 8:51a, 11/11/25
AG
Proposition Joe said:
62strat said:
Proposition Joe said:
Only the equity in the house is an asset. The rest isn't owned by you, it's owned by the bank.


This is worded weird., or wrong.

The house is an asset. The loan is a liability.
The difference, which could be negative, is part of your overall net worth.


I was wording in the framework of the post I was replying to - yes the house is the asset and the loan is a liability, but as far as what actually increases your net worth -- positive equity in the house is what matters.

A $1MM house with $1MM loan still due is a wash on your net worth.
A $1MM house with $500k loan still due is +$500k on your net worth.

I had a winky face in my post above. Sorry it didn't appear to show up. But...

It's OK to admit you were wrong on this one. It would be like me trying to explain the "Vig" to someone. A little humility goes a long way.

As for why this thread is so long - this is a rare area where there is a right and a wrong way to present net worth. Those who are arguing want to arbitrarily move components in or out of a purely mathematical equation because of their personal preferences. The others can't let those inaccuracies slide.
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YouBet
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In reply to I bleed maroon • 8:59a, 11/11/25
AG
Yes, the very definition of Net Worth means your home is included and anyone that disagrees with that is simply a dumbass. #facts

I think we can all move on from this mythical debate now.
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GeorgiAg
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In reply to YouBet • 9:07a, 11/11/25
AG
YouBet said:
Yes, the very definition of Net Worth means your home is included and anyone that disagrees with that is simply a dumbass. #facts

I think we can all move on from this mythical debate now.

Of course it is. Hell, a Cabbage Patch Doll collection is an asset. I don't know if I started this or not, but my comment was I don't like to include it. I will have to live somewhere. If I have a $1 million house with $700k equity, and I move, I may not buy another house that expensive, but I will have something. I guess I could rent, but the point is I have no idea where I will be in 5, 10, 15 years. So how much of that $700k is actual liquid asset?

For my planning and calculation purposes, I exclude it.
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YouBet
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In reply to GeorgiAg • 9:08a, 11/11/25
AG
That's fine. I'm referring to earlier debates on here where people said it's not part of Net Worth. It is and those people are dumb.
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I bleed maroon
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In reply to GeorgiAg • 9:36a, 11/11/25
AG
GeorgiAg said:
YouBet said:
Yes, the very definition of Net Worth means your home is included and anyone that disagrees with that is simply a dumbass. #facts

I think we can all move on from this mythical debate now.

Of course it is. Hell, a Cabbage Patch Doll collection is an asset. I don't know if I started this or not, but my comment was I don't like to include it. I will have to live somewhere. If I have a $1 million house with $700k equity, and I move, I may not buy another house that expensive, but I will have something. I guess I could rent, but the point is I have no idea where I will be in 5, 10, 15 years. So how much of that $700k is actual liquid asset?

For my planning and calculation purposes, I exclude it.

Yes - with all due respect , you were one that helped start this nonsense as I recall - and you're still wrong. You HAVE TO include it in net worth. You can (and maybe should?) exclude it from any analysis you want, but YOU CAN'T EXCLUDE IT FROM NET WORTH, or you are wrong. Heck, I like to market-value all assets and liabilities at their disposal value when doing my own analysis, but net worth is net worth. If you fill out a bank loan application, are you going to exclude it? Of course not. Don't fool yourself.
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YouBet
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In reply to I bleed maroon • 9:52a, 11/11/25
AG
Correction: GeorgiaAg is still dumb. I missed where he said his $700k in home equity is not liquid so therefore he does not consider it net worth.

Assets don't have to be liquid to be assets.

If he does not want to include his net worth in analysis that is focused on different types of assets, then go for it.
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62strat
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In reply to GeorgiAg • 10:12a, 11/11/25
AG
GeorgiAg said:
YouBet said:
Yes, the very definition of Net Worth means your home is included and anyone that disagrees with that is simply a dumbass. #facts

I think we can all move on from this mythical debate now.

I will have to live somewhere.

This is the worst argument against including a home in net worth that is out there. It has no bearing on the definition of net worth.

As far as not including it in your own analysis, I could give so many reasons why it's foolish not to.. but I think I already did in this thread, so just go look.
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AgOutsideAustin
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10:14a, 11/11/25
AG
This thread and the retirement thread……….geez
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GeorgiAg
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10:16a, 11/11/25
AG
Quote:
Of course it is....

.... I don't like to include it ... for planning and calculation purposes...

Good lord, the NET WORTH Police are out today.
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62strat
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In reply to Proposition Joe • 10:17a, 11/11/25
AG
Proposition Joe said:
62strat said:
Proposition Joe said:
Only the equity in the house is an asset. The rest isn't owned by you, it's owned by the bank.


This is worded weird., or wrong.

The house is an asset. The loan is a liability.
The difference, which could be negative, is part of your overall net worth.


I was wording in the framework of the post I was replying to -

I don't care what 'framework' you were wording to, your words are simply wrong and confusing.

'The rest isn't owned by you'?? The rest of what? The rest of 'equity'?
That makes zero sense. Equity is not implied to be positive. It's simply the difference, plus or minus.
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YouBet
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In reply to GeorgiAg • 10:17a, 11/11/25
AG
GeorgiAg said:
Quote:
Of course it is....

.... I don't like to include it ... for planning and calculation purposes...

Good lord, the NET WORTH Police are out today.


Regulators, mount up!
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I bleed maroon
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In reply to GeorgiAg • 10:21a, 11/11/25
AG
GeorgiAg said:
Quote:
Of course it is....

.... I don't like to include it ... for planning and calculation purposes...

Good lord, the NET WORTH Police are out today.

Once again, the problem is:

Quote:
"Of course it is. Hell, a Cabbage Patch Doll collection is an asset. I don't know if I started this or not, but my comment was I don't like to include it. I will have to live somewhere. If I have a $1 million house with $700k equity, and I move, I may not buy another house that expensive, but I will have something. I guess I could rent, but the point is I have no idea where I will be in 5, 10, 15 years. So how much of that $700k is actual liquid asset?"

This paragraph: Total bullcrap, as My Cousin Vinny would say (my .gif game is not strong).

Quote:
For my planning and calculation purposes, I exclude it.

This paragraph: Just fine.


You can't have it both ways.
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GeorgiAg
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10:23a, 11/11/25
AG
ChatGPT FWIW:
Quote:
A Simple Rule of Thumb (used by a lot of planners)
Net worth: count 100% of home equity.
Retirement planning: count 0 - 25% of home equity unless you have a specific liquidation plan (downsizing, reverse mortgage, etc.).
This keeps things honest without assuming you'll cannibalize your primary residence.

Think of it like:
Net worth is a scoreboard.
Financial planning is the actual game strategy.

I mean if you are here to have a dick measuring contest, fine. I come here to try to plan for retirement.
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I bleed maroon
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In reply to GeorgiAg • 10:25a, 11/11/25
AG
GeorgiAg said:
ChatGPT FWIW:
Quote:
A Simple Rule of Thumb (used by a lot of planners)
Net worth: count 100% of home equity.
Retirement planning: count 0 - 25% of home equity unless you have a specific liquidation plan (downsizing, reverse mortgage, etc.).
This keeps things honest without assuming you'll cannibalize your primary residence.

Think of it like:
Net worth is a scoreboard.
Financial planning is the actual game strategy.

I mean if you are here to have a dick measuring contest, fine. I come here to try to plan for retirement.

Then post it on a retirement planning thread, not a net worth of a million or more thread!

Just kind of kidding around now - you and I can both take it, so consider this good-natured ribbing.
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62strat
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In reply to GeorgiAg • 10:28a, 11/11/25
AG
GeorgiAg said:
ChatGPT FWIW:
Quote:
A Simple Rule of Thumb (used by a lot of planners)
Net worth: count 100% of home equity.
Retirement planning: count 0 - 25% of home equity unless you have a specific liquidation plan (downsizing, reverse mortgage, etc.).
This keeps things honest without assuming you'll cannibalize your primary residence.

Think of it like:
Net worth is a scoreboard.
Financial planning is the actual game strategy.

I mean if you are here to have a dick measuring contest, fine. I come here to try to plan for retirement.

so unless you are 100% sure of your living situation when retirement comes, it's silly to not include it.

My parents lived in Texas 35 years (23 in same house).. little did they know, 5+ years into retirement, they're selling their home, which was paid off, and moved to be by me in CO. They paid for their current house in cash, and had nearly half a million left over.

If this were you, why would you not include $500k in your plan? Why would you exclude it? Because 'you have to live somewhere' is a pretty sorry excuse for not including it. That is a half of a million absolutely real dollars that are now gaining 10%+ in the market for my parents.
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GeorgiAg
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In reply to 62strat • 10:42a, 11/11/25
AG
If I'm doing a personal financial statement for a loan or whatever, of course I include it. I'm a conservative dude so in my mind it's in the background.

I also inherited timberland from my grandfather in South Georgia that I share with my two sisters. That is probably worth a few million. But we are never going to sell it. I may mention it on a loan application, but I don't even really know the FMV. My grandfather burned it in my head and my sisters' heads that it will never be sold. Mom is 89 and has a good bit too. We'll get more when she passes (hopefully never!). I'm just going to give that to my nieces and nephews - all that I have now and all that I get.

I don't include that in MY net worth calculation. I am under arrest from the Net Worth police?

Maybe I'll start a LIQUID/SEMI-LIQUID RETIREMENT ASSETS MINUS LIABILITIES thread.
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I bleed maroon
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In reply to GeorgiAg • 10:51a, 11/11/25
AG
GeorgiAg said:
If I'm doing a personal financial statement for a loan or whatever, of course I include it. I'm a conservative dude so in my mind it's in the background.

I also inherited timberland from my grandfather in South Georgia that I share with my two sisters. That is probably worth a few million. But we are never going to sell it. I may mention it on a loan application, but I don't even really know the FMV. My grandfather burned it in my head and my sisters' heads that it will never be sold. Mom is 89 and has a good bit too. We'll get more when she passes (hopefully never!). I'm just going to give that to my nieces and nephews - all that I have now and all that I get.

I don't include that in MY net worth calculation. I am under arrest from the Net Worth police?

Maybe I'll start a LIQUID/SEMI-LIQUID RETIREMENT ASSETS MINUS LIABILITIES thread.

Good idea! There are 50 or more retirement planning threads - post it there!

But don't post that you're worth a million when your actual net worth is 5 million. Or the reverse!
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62strat
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In reply to GeorgiAg • 10:53a, 11/11/25
AG
GeorgiAg said:


I don't include that in MY net worth calculation. I am under arrest from the Net Worth police?


If someone sued you 'for all that you're worth', they'd certainly want to know about it. Or if you declared bankruptcy, or, maybe a more realistic example, your spouse divorces you. It would be fraud to 'conveniently' leave out this land in your asset column.

It's doesn't matter how many hypothetical examples you come up with, the definition doesn't change. Your net worth includes that land, plain and simple. Doesn't matter what you prefer to do.
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YouBet
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In reply to GeorgiAg • 10:56a, 11/11/25
AG
GeorgiAg said:
If I'm doing a personal financial statement for a loan or whatever, of course I include it. I'm a conservative dude so in my mind it's in the background.

I also inherited timberland from my grandfather in South Georgia that I share with my two sisters. That is probably worth a few million. But we are never going to sell it. I may mention it on a loan application, but I don't even really know the FMV. My grandfather burned it in my head and my sisters' heads that it will never be sold. Mom is 89 and has a good bit too. We'll get more when she passes (hopefully never!). I'm just going to give that to my nieces and nephews - all that I have now and all that I get.

I don't include that in MY net worth calculation. I am under arrest from the Net Worth police?

Maybe I'll start a LIQUID/SEMI-LIQUID RETIREMENT ASSETS MINUS LIABILITIES thread.

There is actually a lot you can do with that equity in your home. It doesn't have to just sit there on the balance sheet and be a number if you needed/wanted to tap into it.

I won't speak to the forest you own.
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