My totals are not to your level yet but in terms of proportions, my insurance will probably be double my property taxes this year. Really ****ing with my budget the last few years...I guess I got spoiled for a while.aggie_wes said:
Homeowners insurance went from 2300 - 3300 - 5600 - 8700 during COVID. We're up for renewal late this year and I'm expecting it to be close to 10k.
Never had a claim. This may be the year my insurance cost exceeds my property taxes. FKING ridiculous.
homeowner's insurance - NOT sustainable
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Last: 7 mo ago by Comeby!
Cheaper to you, as in less then your deductible, guess it depends on several factors (like deductible) but don't think it's likely.YouBet said:htxag09 said:What do you mean? Like cheaper to you or just the overall cost is less?YouBet said:
Has anyone found that buying a roof out of pocket is any cheaper than handling through insurance?
Cheaper to me. As in paying cash and avoiding all the middle men.
But I replaced my roof preemptively a few years ago. It was 25 years old, had a small leak, and we were in the market for a new house so knew a new roof wouldn't be a bad thing when we went to sell or lease. I think I reached out to 6 roofers and 5 of them send me their spiel about how their system showed I had a hail storm and a roof would be $20k and they'd do everything w/ insurance for me, etc., etc.
Long story short....after realizing I was paying out of pocket and not interested in going through insurance, the price dropped 40-50% when taking out all stuff like replacing all decking, etc.
Now I'm sure everyone's favorite roofer will be along shortly to tell me I'm wrong....but that was my experience.
YouBet said:htxag09 said:What do you mean? Like cheaper to you or just the overall cost is less?YouBet said:
Has anyone found that buying a roof out of pocket is any cheaper than handling through insurance?
Cheaper to me. As in paying cash and avoiding all the middle men.
With 2% wind/hail deductibles, I imagine a replacement paid cash will be comparable to deductible.
Roll it back years ago and USAA had a single price deductible.
Likely not a surprise but velocity (metric used by carriers and the industry to compare claims vs policies under contract) has dropped. Rising deductibles and fear of losing coverage is driving people to not make claims.
Insurance companies got us right where they want us.
Here is just one example. The poster says some storms have rolled through and that his neighbors are getting their roofs replaced, so hey, why not me as well? No mention of any knowledge of any damage, but if the neighbors are getting them replaced, then surely he should be able to as well.
Now, imagine how many times this occurs and how much it is driving an increase to everyone else's premiums. I am sure there is blame to go around between the insurance adjuster approving, the roofing companies encouraging people to file with their insurance, and the homeowners looking for a way to get someone else to pay for their old roof being replaced.
https://texags.com/forums/61/topics/3492787/replies/68637627
Now, imagine how many times this occurs and how much it is driving an increase to everyone else's premiums. I am sure there is blame to go around between the insurance adjuster approving, the roofing companies encouraging people to file with their insurance, and the homeowners looking for a way to get someone else to pay for their old roof being replaced.
https://texags.com/forums/61/topics/3492787/replies/68637627
YouBet said:
Has anyone found that buying a roof out of pocket is any cheaper than handling through insurance?
Anecdotally. I was able to get a new roof last year under insurance. I believe the roofing company charged $28k.
That same roofer's quote for a similar size house, but cash pay, was about 1/2 that (I think $12k, but maybe $14). It was my BF's rental property, and he wound up going with someone else who charged less than $10k, cash.
right...but that cash roof didn't have titanium nails and rust proofing, so just not comparable to a "high end" job.
Captain Winky said:
Here is just one example. The poster says some storms have rolled through and that his neighbors are getting their roofs replaced, so hey, why not me as well? No mention of any knowledge of any damage, but if the neighbors are getting them replaced, then surely he should be able to as well.
Now, imagine how many times this occurs and how much it is driving an increase to everyone else's premiums. I am sure there is blame to go around between the insurance adjuster approving, the roofing companies encouraging people to file with their insurance, and the homeowners looking for a way to get someone else to pay for their old roof being replaced.
https://texags.com/forums/61/topics/3492787/replies/68637627
If you have a roof that's 10-12 years old, might as well play the game.
I'd never had a homeowners claim in 20 years of homeownership. As soon as the roof on my house passed the 10 year mark, my premium jumped the highest percentage it's ever gone up (it had actually been pretty stable the few years before that).
When the adjuster came out, he confirmed, if you wait until your roof is "too old", they will deny your claim (even if it's damaged) because they deem the wear and tear due to age to be more significant than the damage.
So, you have to hit the "sweet spot" where they acknowledge your roof needs replacement, but that it's due to damage and not age.
I got my new roof last year. My premium did go up a little bit more, but not nearly as much as it did the year the roof hit 10 years old.
House will be paid off in less than 7 years. Barring something catastrophic, this will be the one and only new roof I put on it. Once it's paid for, I'll drop back to minimum coverage and do repairs to the extent that's possible.
Diggity said:
right...but that cash roof didn't have titanium nails and rust proofing, so just not comparable to a "high end" job.
The day I saw a roofer driving around my hood in a custom wrapped Tesla truck just confirmed what I already knew.
The guy who did my roof is actually pretty trustworthy. He didn't make any outlandish claims about qualify or anything. He did say he was putting a little bit better roof on that the builder grade one I was replacing.
But he said quality doesn't matter - 10 years is the new lifespan, as determined by the insurance companies. Anything more than that means higher premiums and likely a denied claim. So you get screwed both ways.
State Farm offered up $28k as the replacement value, so that's what he billed. Can't say I blame him, and no homeowner cares what the roofer bills the insurance company since it doesn't change the deductible that they have to pay.
This is true.Captain Winky said:
Here is just one example. The poster says some storms have rolled through and that his neighbors are getting their roofs replaced, so hey, why not me as well? No mention of any knowledge of any damage, but if the neighbors are getting them replaced, then surely he should be able to as well.
Now, imagine how many times this occurs and how much it is driving an increase to everyone else's premiums. I am sure there is blame to go around between the insurance adjuster approving, the roofing companies encouraging people to file with their insurance, and the homeowners looking for a way to get someone else to pay for their old roof being replaced.
https://texags.com/forums/61/topics/3492787/replies/68637627
Added to that are the exorbitant mark up and aggressive sales tactics from roofers (not all of them but too many), increased cost on materials/labor and then more frequent sever weather. Recipe for disaster.
Some people think their insurance is like a maintenance or warranty plan to fix your roof when it gets old. Not what its intended for and its very difficult for adjusters to determine wear and tear from storm damage. Also very difficult to determine when the damage occurred and if it even happened while they were insuring the home.
it's a totally messed up system, but I have to think with premiums/replacement values skyrocketing and people moving towards 3-5% deductibles, the days of people looking at their insurance policies as a "free roof" coupon may be ending. Screwed up and painful way to get there for sure.
Honestly, I'd rather pay cash for a new roof out of pocket at my discretion rather than have the insurance companies jack around my premium because they think a 10 year old roof (that's perfectly fine) is uninsurable.
Every time I get a bill from my insurance company, I hold my breath while opening it. Between that and the outrageous CAD valuations every year, these are the two financial things that cause me the most stress.
Every time I get a bill from my insurance company, I hold my breath while opening it. Between that and the outrageous CAD valuations every year, these are the two financial things that cause me the most stress.
TXTransplant said:YouBet said:
Has anyone found that buying a roof out of pocket is any cheaper than handling through insurance?
Anecdotally. I was able to get a new roof last year under insurance. I believe the roofing company charged $28k.
That same roofer's quote for a similar size house, but cash pay, was about 1/2 that (I think $12k, but maybe $14). It was my BF's rental property, and he wound up going with someone else who charged less than $10k, cash.
Yes, this is what I assumed would be the case.
If you've never been through the process, the roofers don't quote the homeowners or insurance company a price (if filing on insurance).
You file a claim, the adjuster comes out and looks at the roof, and the adjuster tells you/the roofer the max insurance will pay for a repair.
Obviously, the roofer is going to bill whatever max the insurance company comes back with - doesn't matter how much the job actually costs - because that's allowed. The total on the final invoice will match the estimate.
The homeowner doesn't care how much the job costs, because they still owe the sane deductible.
I suspect some insurance companies pay less than the cost, others pay more, and overall, it all washes out - with some extra for the roofing companies since they have to "deal with difficult insurance companies".
I think the only way out of this is to have a separate deductible just for roofs that is a percentage of the total cost of the roof (say 50%). That's the only way homeowners have any skin in the game.
You file a claim, the adjuster comes out and looks at the roof, and the adjuster tells you/the roofer the max insurance will pay for a repair.
Obviously, the roofer is going to bill whatever max the insurance company comes back with - doesn't matter how much the job actually costs - because that's allowed. The total on the final invoice will match the estimate.
The homeowner doesn't care how much the job costs, because they still owe the sane deductible.
I suspect some insurance companies pay less than the cost, others pay more, and overall, it all washes out - with some extra for the roofing companies since they have to "deal with difficult insurance companies".
I think the only way out of this is to have a separate deductible just for roofs that is a percentage of the total cost of the roof (say 50%). That's the only way homeowners have any skin in the game.
This is the mentality that is screwing over everyone else who doesn't decide they, "might as well play the game". The people who don't take advantage of the system and consider a new roof just the cost of home ownership get doubly screwed by paying for their own sh/t and getting hit with higher premiums.
Yeah, I don't like it at all. It's a game, and I don't like that I played it.
But if you have a 10+ year old roof and an adjuster comes out and approves a replacement, take it. Because you're gonna pay through the nose in premium increases and likely become uninsurable at some point. If your claim is denied, then pay out of pocket. That's basically what I would have had to do if my claim was denied.
At this point, considering the premiums I've paid since owning this house, I consider myself even with the insurance company. My roof cost roughly what I've paid in premiums. So, I haven't gotten something for nothing.
No one is getting rewarded for going 20-30 years with no claims, so there is no point in wearing it as a badge of honor.
The people really getting screwed are the ones who have significant damage that needs repair but are now getting denied because the insurance companies have dug themselves such a hole the last couple of years.
But if you have a 10+ year old roof and an adjuster comes out and approves a replacement, take it. Because you're gonna pay through the nose in premium increases and likely become uninsurable at some point. If your claim is denied, then pay out of pocket. That's basically what I would have had to do if my claim was denied.
At this point, considering the premiums I've paid since owning this house, I consider myself even with the insurance company. My roof cost roughly what I've paid in premiums. So, I haven't gotten something for nothing.
No one is getting rewarded for going 20-30 years with no claims, so there is no point in wearing it as a badge of honor.
The people really getting screwed are the ones who have significant damage that needs repair but are now getting denied because the insurance companies have dug themselves such a hole the last couple of years.
I want to know where these insurance companies that are paying 100% overhead and profit are at?
Even as an insurance agent I agree with this take. It sucks that everything is going up and roof claims are primary cause but one person not making a claim doesn't save the industry. If you can make a claim on a 10-20 year roof and get approved for wind/hail damage then you should do it.
I work for Allstate and would be glad to run quotes for anyone that is interested in reducing their rate. We have been super competitive in Dallas and Houston and can still offer a 1% wind/hail deductible. I've been able to help several Texans customers so far. My email is ckeith@allstate.com
I work for Allstate and would be glad to run quotes for anyone that is interested in reducing their rate. We have been super competitive in Dallas and Houston and can still offer a 1% wind/hail deductible. I've been able to help several Texans customers so far. My email is ckeith@allstate.com
Small 3/1 1950s ranch house / hunting cabin was recently increased to 2,200. Dropped insurance coverage
Had to replace a few shingles on the simple roof line after Beryl which cost 250.
Seriously considering dropping the main home policy when it renews. It's gotten ridiculous.
Had to replace a few shingles on the simple roof line after Beryl which cost 250.
Seriously considering dropping the main home policy when it renews. It's gotten ridiculous.
With the large percentage deductibles showing up and adjusters being trained to ignore more and more damage as normal wear and tear, I think we will start to see more and more people waiting until there are leaks to repair things and some of the cheaper repair methods like elastomeric spray coatings get commercialized. The fact that today you may have to get a freaking public adjuster in some cases and that magically doubles or triples the price because the roofer is no longer working with an insurance company is mind blowing.
TXTransplant said:
Honestly, I'd rather pay cash for a new roof out of pocket at my discretion rather than have the insurance companies jack around my premium because they think a 10 year old roof (that's perfectly fine) is uninsurable.
Every time I get a bill from my insurance company, I hold my breath while opening it. Between that and the outrageous CAD valuations every year, these are the two financial things that cause me the most stress.
Another layer of the problem is hail claims are not chargeable, meaning your rate won't increase at renewal due to the claim. Fire, water, theft etc are all charitable but not wind/hail. Your rate actually will go down because they update the year of your roof to new.
I'm sure I'm being somewhat ignorant here, but I do not understand the obsession of getting roofs fixed that requires a freaking 4th dimension radar tool to even tell you if you have damage. Had a friend tell me when they sold their house that when they had their roof assessed they used computer modeling to go back in time to pinpoint when there were hail storms and where it happened so they could determine if his roof was damaged. WTF?
I'm all about keeping stuff maintained before you get to the point of breakage, like anything else in life, but good lord it feels like everyone involved with roofs on either side has created a mythical point of no return for roofs.
I'm all about keeping stuff maintained before you get to the point of breakage, like anything else in life, but good lord it feels like everyone involved with roofs on either side has created a mythical point of no return for roofs.
That isn't space age technology.
Easy software subscription that tracks zip codes and geographic locations of hail storms. Puts it in a database.
Store the data. Someone can query it.
We have hail size, wind speed, rain, etc data going back 30+ years.
Easy software subscription that tracks zip codes and geographic locations of hail storms. Puts it in a database.
Store the data. Someone can query it.
We have hail size, wind speed, rain, etc data going back 30+ years.
The Silverback said:TXTransplant said:
Honestly, I'd rather pay cash for a new roof out of pocket at my discretion rather than have the insurance companies jack around my premium because they think a 10 year old roof (that's perfectly fine) is uninsurable.
Every time I get a bill from my insurance company, I hold my breath while opening it. Between that and the outrageous CAD valuations every year, these are the two financial things that cause me the most stress.
Another layer of the problem is hail claims are not chargeable, meaning your rate won't increase at renewal due to the claim. Fire, water, theft etc are all charitable but not wind/hail. Your rate actually will go down because they update the year of your roof to new.
And this is exactly why I went ahead and filed a claim for a new roof. I felt like a new roof was the only option I had to at least try to keep my premium under control. And I wasn't going to pay out of pocket without at least asking to see if it would be covered. That's just being a good steward of my money.
And that whole model is just nuts. But don't hate the player, hate the game.
ChoppinDs40 said:
That isn't space age technology.
Easy software subscription that tracks zip codes and geographic locations of hail storms. Puts it in a database.
Store the data. Someone can query it.
We have hail size, wind speed, rain, etc data going back 30+ years.
I realize that. I was being a little hyperbolic. But if you have to run a model that says a storm passed over my house 3 years ago that totaled my roof (allegedly) while we have suffered zero negative impacts from it then that seems like a process ripe for abuse. Along with everything else around this issue from both sides.
As others have said, the entire racket around this is going to either force insurance companies to change practice here and/or force people off of insurance and only fix a roof when there is an actual problem.
Mildly amazing to me we can put a man on the moon, catch a rocket with chopsticks, etc etc but cannot engineer a cost effective roofing system that can withstand some hail.
So what about metal roofs? How do those stand up? Most people have moved to metal down here on the coast in my hood but we don't get hail.
Ducks4brkfast said:
Mildly amazing to me we can put a man on the moon, catch a rocket with chopsticks, etc etc but cannot engineer a cost effective roofing system that can withstand some hail.
Oh, we can…
I have a very affordable, semi-sustainable solution but I'm sure putting a 50+ year roof on would break the insurance scam and be heavily lobbied against. It's like hydrogen cars
There is no way you were paying $2K two years ago, if so you had a great deal.GenericAggie said:
2 years ago we paid 2K, frisco, 4000 square feet.
2025 we're paying 6K with higher deductible and lower coverage.
Any brokers out there or any observations from the forum?
This is a complete scam.
I am in Southlake and have been paying over $4K the past 7-8 years (currently $5.5K) on 3,800 sf.
Both home insurance and Texas real estate tax system are making home ownership value very questionable.
Not only are insurance rates spiking wildly, getting a claim paid at fair market is a year+ legal battle with providers like Allstate.
Not only are insurance rates spiking wildly, getting a claim paid at fair market is a year+ legal battle with providers like Allstate.
Good question on metal roof…shopping now and one accidentally put metal and was approx $500 less with Allstate before updating to shingle.
Our family got a rebate of 300-ish from Germania at end of policy year b/c had metal (6-7 years who).
Our family got a rebate of 300-ish from Germania at end of policy year b/c had metal (6-7 years who).
Pooh-ah!
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Wasn't there a poster on here a month or so ago saying that his insurance company told him to replace his ~12 year old metal roof or they were going to drop him?
Edit: Here's the thread. Quoting a 10+ year old metal roof high enough to try and get the owner to go elsewhere. They don't want to insure it, but didn't explicitly tell him to replace it.
https://texags.com/forums/59/topics/3530411
Edit: Here's the thread. Quoting a 10+ year old metal roof high enough to try and get the owner to go elsewhere. They don't want to insure it, but didn't explicitly tell him to replace it.
https://texags.com/forums/59/topics/3530411
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GenericAggie said:Ducks4brkfast said:
Mildly amazing to me we can put a man on the moon, catch a rocket with chopsticks, etc etc but cannot engineer a cost effective roofing system that can withstand some hail.
Oh, we can…
I have a very affordable, semi-sustainable solution but I'm sure putting a 50+ year roof on would break the insurance scam and be heavily lobbied against. It's like hydrogen cars
Ya, I'm not sure if I got sold some ocean front property in Arizona, but I just built my hour 18 months ago in grapevine and my roof is rated for 25 years. It's supposed to withstand slightly larger than golf ball sized hail. I can't remember the test but I think they drop metal balls at heavier and heavier weights from 30 feet on the roofs to get a rating.
I think I ended up spending more on the roof but then opted for 5% roof deductible.
Helpful. Thanks.
Poor insurance companies losing hundreds of millions while making BILLIONS.
And yes HistAg09 your example is 100% accurate and is the main problem with insurance and roofers. I know 2 roofers who are not greedy
Want to fix the problem? eliminate roof coverage.
And yes HistAg09 your example is 100% accurate and is the main problem with insurance and roofers. I know 2 roofers who are not greedy
Want to fix the problem? eliminate roof coverage.
Wonder how much profit the roofing companies make knowing that the insurance companies will pay for a new roof. A few years ago I got a new roof and if I had a one percent deductible, my out of pocket would have been zero. The roofer ate the one percent.
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