Pretty sure that's illegal now…
homeowner's insurance - NOT sustainable
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Last: 7 mo ago by Comeby!
$30k roof? Roofer nets $10k min
I think a conversation that needs to be had here is what kind of roof coverage everyone has and whether it's replacement cost value or actual cash value. If it's replacement cost, then yeah, you should be paying through the nose on an older roof. If it's actual cash value, then coverage should be much cheaper.
To put it in easy to understand terms, think of it like car insurance. If you had replacement value on a 10 year old car, the insurer would be on the hook for $30k for s new replacement if your $8k pos got hit, so of course they're going to charge you a ton. If actual cash value, they're on the hook for just the remaining value of the car and will charge you less.
Beyond that though, they're on the hook for leaks and other damage caused by the failure of an older roof, so their risk from ancillary damages goes up with roof age.
Instead of getting replacement value coverage, people should be getting actual cash value and socking away money to pay for a new roof in 10-15 years.
To put it in easy to understand terms, think of it like car insurance. If you had replacement value on a 10 year old car, the insurer would be on the hook for $30k for s new replacement if your $8k pos got hit, so of course they're going to charge you a ton. If actual cash value, they're on the hook for just the remaining value of the car and will charge you less.
Beyond that though, they're on the hook for leaks and other damage caused by the failure of an older roof, so their risk from ancillary damages goes up with roof age.
Instead of getting replacement value coverage, people should be getting actual cash value and socking away money to pay for a new roof in 10-15 years.
that whole conversation becomes immaterial when the deductible ends up being the same or more as the out of pocket cost for a new roof, no?
using your car example, it would be analogous to the insurance company requiring you buy a new car every 10 years, where you could pay them $15K to buy you a "$30K" car....or go out and buy the car yourself for $12K.
using your car example, it would be analogous to the insurance company requiring you buy a new car every 10 years, where you could pay them $15K to buy you a "$30K" car....or go out and buy the car yourself for $12K.
So if you have a roof that is more than ten years old and you don't want to be one of the people that plays the game that screws everyone else, should you just go to 5% since they're going to deny your claim anyway?
as far as I can tell...that's not an option.
These companies won't write any policies for homes with roofs over a certain again (in specific areas).
These companies won't write any policies for homes with roofs over a certain again (in specific areas).
Can the insurance validate the age of your roof? No permit in my county for a new roof. How am I supposed to know how old my roof is? I'm guessing the same year I bought it and that was less than 10 years ago.
cena05 said:
Can the insurance validate the age of your roof? No permit in my county for a new roof. How am I supposed to know how old my roof is? I'm guessing the same year I bought it and that was less than 10 years ago.
Satellite imagery.
I quoted this and it doesn't matter. They won't lower your rate to where the risk vs premium is actually reasonable. It's a red herring.topher06 said:
So if you have a roof that is more than ten years old and you don't want to be one of the people that plays the game that screws everyone else, should you just go to 5% since they're going to deny your claim anyway?
My roof was just destroyed by a Hail Storm in December. USAA paid minus deductible no questions asked. Don't always believe the roofer that knocks on your door. The problem is after all the money we are paying these damn insurance companies they are still barely breaking even or taking a loss in the state of Texas. It is unsustainable within current model. They are gettin killed by weather on one end and killed by frivolous lawsuits on the other end. Being a public defender in Texas is a great career. Abbot needs to reign in his lawyer buddies but that won't ever happen. Big auto carriers are leaving the state as we speak.
So it seems like the play is to replace your roof every 10 years and pay the cheapest price possible. Sorry roof salesman, not interested in 30-year shingles.
Their pitch starts falling apart really quick when they start explaining how the 30-year shingles on your roof are shot after 15 years because things like Texas heat take life off of them....Captain Winky said:
So it seems like the play is to replace your roof every 10 years and pay the cheapest price possible. Sorry roof salesman, not interested in 30-year shingles.
Some insurance companies issue cat bonds (in place of or to supplement reinsurance) and investors buy them. Investors are guaranteed a certain rate of return and the funds in the cat bond trust pays the insurance company in the event of a cat even trigger.SlackerAg said:
I bet the financial firms will eventually get into the game (if not already) & create an equivalent to "whole life insurance" where it's a hybrid of insurance & investment.
Likely only an issue if you have a claim.
Diggity said:
as far as I can tell...that's not an option.
These companies won't write any policies for homes with roofs over a certain again (in specific areas).
It is possible. I switched to Progressive early last year. They did ask the roof age but weren't sticklers when I indicated it was over 10yo. All I know is the roof wasn't new when I bought 12 years ago. Beryl then came through and tore up the roof. That's when I realized that I had signed up for a 5% deductible on "named storms"…which covers just about everything these days. Needless to say, paying the deductible didn't make sense.
cena05 said:
Can the insurance validate the age of your roof? No permit in my county for a new roof. How am I supposed to know how old my roof is? I'm guessing the same year I bought it and that was less than 10 years ago.
In Texas there is a database that shows all insurance claims that have been filed on a house. I can't remember if it shows detailed amounts but I am pretty sure it shows the type of claim that was made. I previously ran into issues on companies not wanting to write a new policy because the roof was over 10 years old back in 2017. As the shingles become older they become more brittle which allows smaller hail to damage them easier.
Gotcha, but not all roofs are replaced via claims and I have a metal roof, which I assume is harder to determine the age.
almost done with mortgage payments...how insanely dumb would I be to self-insure with these stupid rates continue to increase annually?!?! I know it HAS to be crossing owners minds without a mortgage...outside of tornado or fire wiping it out (which I'd like to know the actuarial odds of happening), it would absolutely save gargantuan dollars for folks not in danger of hurricanes being more inland...
If I were to the point of having my mortgage paid off, considering that deductibles are essentially the cost of a roof replacement now, I would look at insuring my house for whatever deductible percentage I was comfortable with but excluding roof from the policy. Just make sure to have a pool of money for potential roof replacement or know how you would pay for it when it is needed.
Really dumb question and sorry if derailing, but does anyone know how I can tell by just looking at my State Farm declarations page if I have acv or rcv coverage? Can't remember or find it on there and roof is 9 years old, so depending on which I have I'm expecting for a rate increase next year when that benchmark hits.
I have SF and in the declarations document, under the heading Loss Settlement Provisions, it says replacement cost - similar construction.
This is the only reference to this in my policy, so I'm assuming that's it. I know mine is RCV because that's the settlement I received. If you have any doubt, call your agent.
This is the only reference to this in my policy, so I'm assuming that's it. I know mine is RCV because that's the settlement I received. If you have any doubt, call your agent.
look at the policy type, If it says HO3 you have ACV on the roof and RCV on the house. If it's A4 you have replacement cost on both.
Yep rates have increased for all of us. My premium is reasonable after upping the deductible; basically eliminating claims for hail damage.
YouBet said:
Has anyone found that buying a roof out of pocket is any cheaper than handling through insurance?
I have gotten non insurance quotes for a roof that ended up being about 2/3 the price of the insurance price.
There is software they use to quote every task when you run through insurance so things like removing satellite dishes and reinstalling them have line items. If it's a hail claim and window needs to be replaced they can itemize the screen, removing and reattaching the blinds, moving furniture in front of the window and replacing it, cleaning up any debris in house from the install, etc. it all adds up quick.
The biggest problem with self insurance is if your net worth is really high enough that you could eat the total loss of your home in the event of fire, you likely need to think about umbrella insurance to protect you from frivolous lawsuits. But no company will write you an umbrella policy if you don't have home owners insurance.
Curious if anyone has any advice here for a situation I'm in now...
Decided to give goosehead a call and have them shop insurance for me on my home back in early February. Guy I was working with initially found me a cheaper product through the same company I already had a policy with and I said sounds great. My home is super old but has a 11 year old roof (after reading through this thread I'm seeing the issue already). Because its a new product they send someone out to inspect the house. SageSure comes back and says they aren't going to do the new policy because the roof needs to be replaced we went back and forth sending and resending pictures but ultimately they are saying go pound sand and get the new roof.
The whole thing seems like a racket. If I hadn't tried to switch products they would have continued to take my money at the higher premium no issues but because I go for a cheaper product now all of a sudden the roof is too old at 11 years (its literally on the policy).
Now I don't know if I did something wrong here but the guy with goosehead cancelled the old policy when he tried to get this one in place (kinda makes sense). But now after SageSure has come back and said no dice I basically don't have coverage until I go and pay for a new roof.
More context, I live in Houston and actually had a little bit of roof damage after Beryl came through and got the necessary spots repaired from an actual roofer (not some handy man).
Shouldn't I just go and file a claim on the "old" policy? I feel like I know how that is gonna go. They are gonna send our their 3rd party assessor and deny the claim, right? So then what? They won't insure the home cause I need a new roof (11 year old roof) but then also wont accept a claim either? This whole thing is a mess.
Decided to give goosehead a call and have them shop insurance for me on my home back in early February. Guy I was working with initially found me a cheaper product through the same company I already had a policy with and I said sounds great. My home is super old but has a 11 year old roof (after reading through this thread I'm seeing the issue already). Because its a new product they send someone out to inspect the house. SageSure comes back and says they aren't going to do the new policy because the roof needs to be replaced we went back and forth sending and resending pictures but ultimately they are saying go pound sand and get the new roof.
The whole thing seems like a racket. If I hadn't tried to switch products they would have continued to take my money at the higher premium no issues but because I go for a cheaper product now all of a sudden the roof is too old at 11 years (its literally on the policy).
Now I don't know if I did something wrong here but the guy with goosehead cancelled the old policy when he tried to get this one in place (kinda makes sense). But now after SageSure has come back and said no dice I basically don't have coverage until I go and pay for a new roof.
More context, I live in Houston and actually had a little bit of roof damage after Beryl came through and got the necessary spots repaired from an actual roofer (not some handy man).
Shouldn't I just go and file a claim on the "old" policy? I feel like I know how that is gonna go. They are gonna send our their 3rd party assessor and deny the claim, right? So then what? They won't insure the home cause I need a new roof (11 year old roof) but then also wont accept a claim either? This whole thing is a mess.
Have you tried State Farm or Allstate lately. I'm the least loyal to insurance (it's all evil), but both have been much cheaper than the cheaper outfits previously. I wouldn't give up shopping is my point. Brokers don't quote Allstate or State Farm.
I didn't read every response in here but I did read a lot of it.
I'm a roofing contractor in San Antonio and 100% agree with everyone talking about the roof claims being a big problem.
It drives me nuts. I'll go look at a several houses in area after a small hail storm comes through and tell homeowner they're good. Just some cosmetic damage, but nothing worth paying a deductible over. I'm talking tiny little bits that knock 5 or so granules off here and there and make little black spots. That damages is never going to be a problem.
But then I'll come back a few months later and half the neighborhood is reroofed. Part of me is upset feeling like I missed out but then I remind myself, no, this is a bunch of bull ****, I gave the right advice and why in the hell did these adjusters approve these claims?? I expect roofers to be shady, but I'd think the adjusters would step up and deny the claims.
So all of a sudden people are getting new roofs all the time. I'm a 3rd generation roofer here in San Antonio and it used to be normal for people to get 20+ years out of a roof. Back then they were "lowly" 3 tab roofs.
It's all a big racket.
The price of materials is insane now too.
I'm a roofing contractor in San Antonio and 100% agree with everyone talking about the roof claims being a big problem.
It drives me nuts. I'll go look at a several houses in area after a small hail storm comes through and tell homeowner they're good. Just some cosmetic damage, but nothing worth paying a deductible over. I'm talking tiny little bits that knock 5 or so granules off here and there and make little black spots. That damages is never going to be a problem.
But then I'll come back a few months later and half the neighborhood is reroofed. Part of me is upset feeling like I missed out but then I remind myself, no, this is a bunch of bull ****, I gave the right advice and why in the hell did these adjusters approve these claims?? I expect roofers to be shady, but I'd think the adjusters would step up and deny the claims.
So all of a sudden people are getting new roofs all the time. I'm a 3rd generation roofer here in San Antonio and it used to be normal for people to get 20+ years out of a roof. Back then they were "lowly" 3 tab roofs.
It's all a big racket.
The price of materials is insane now too.
Also in response to a poster above talking about using advanced imaging or whatever to determine if the roof is damaged. EXACTLY!!! The hail storm that it takes to do real damage to your roof where it needs to be replaced is a very violent thing. It wakes the whole family up and you're afraid the windows are going to break. When it's done all of the neighbors come out and are like "wtf was that!!!!" Branches and leafs are all knocked off the trees and you've got to clean it all up. Your car is dented to crap and has a busted windshield. THATS how you know you've had a hail storm. You don't need a roofer to knock on your door and tell you you had a hail storm and just take a look at this print out I have as proof. YOU WILL KNOW!
So, in short, I'm a roofer and insurance claims is what put me through college and what's providing for my family currently. But I totally agree with everyone here calling roofers out for all of these claims that have our insurance premiums so high. I'm telling you, a very large percentage of the roofs that have been claimed out all of these years didn't need to be replaced at all. Just people out making money.
We should be more pissed at the scum bags that game the system for a new roof when they don't need one or are too cheap to pay for their own. There doesn't seem to be as much backlash to the posters who have openly admitted to "playing the game" and getting insurance to pick up the tab. These f/cks are screwing us all.
On second thought, maybe there isn't much backlash because I'm just one of the morons in the minority that isn't a money sucking weasel.
On second thought, maybe there isn't much backlash because I'm just one of the morons in the minority that isn't a money sucking weasel.
I don't want to get into an internet argument, but calling out homeowners as "scumbags" because we filed a claim on our insurance policy that an adjuster who is employed by the insurance company came out and APPROVED is unfair.
I don't know if I needed a new roof (it wasn't leaking, so my instinct says I could have gone another few years, at least), but my insurance company sure as heck said I did. So, considering the tens of thousands of dollars I've paid them over 20+ years, I'm not "taking one for team" and declining the coverage I've rightfully paid for when the cost of my premium is directly tied to the age of my roof.
I honestly didn't think my claim would be approved, but it was, and it would have been financially irresponsible for me to decline that coverage. And there isn't anyone posting on this board who wouldn't have done the same.
It's also not my fault that the insurance company determined the replacement value of the roof to be $28k, when it probably would have cost 1/2 that if I'd paid out of pocket entirely and not involved the insurance company.
We aren't "gaming the system". We aren't taking advantage of loopholes or manipulating the system. We are simply playing the game that the insurance companies have set up. There is a difference.
I don't even blame the roofers for this, as they are just taking advantage of a system that happens to be set up in their favor. This is entirely on the insurance companies. Homeowners and roofers aren't forcing them to approve claims.
I don't know if I needed a new roof (it wasn't leaking, so my instinct says I could have gone another few years, at least), but my insurance company sure as heck said I did. So, considering the tens of thousands of dollars I've paid them over 20+ years, I'm not "taking one for team" and declining the coverage I've rightfully paid for when the cost of my premium is directly tied to the age of my roof.
I honestly didn't think my claim would be approved, but it was, and it would have been financially irresponsible for me to decline that coverage. And there isn't anyone posting on this board who wouldn't have done the same.
It's also not my fault that the insurance company determined the replacement value of the roof to be $28k, when it probably would have cost 1/2 that if I'd paid out of pocket entirely and not involved the insurance company.
We aren't "gaming the system". We aren't taking advantage of loopholes or manipulating the system. We are simply playing the game that the insurance companies have set up. There is a difference.
I don't even blame the roofers for this, as they are just taking advantage of a system that happens to be set up in their favor. This is entirely on the insurance companies. Homeowners and roofers aren't forcing them to approve claims.
Aggies don't lie, cheat or steal.... hats off to you, brother!
Serious question...how is this situation the roofers' fault when the insurance companies have to APPROVE the claims? If a "very large" percentage of roofs didn't need to be replaced, why did insurance companies approve the claims?lotsofhp said:
So, in short, I'm a roofer and insurance claims is what put me through college and what's providing for my family currently. But I totally agree with everyone here calling roofers out for all of these claims that have our insurance premiums so high. I'm telling you, a very large percentage of the roofs that have been claimed out all of these years didn't need to be replaced at all. Just people out making money.
Also, why are insurance companies writing replacement estimates that are for so much more money than what roofers are willing to charge if someone bypasses insurance and pays cash for a roof?
I can't really blame a roofing company for making their invoice match the $ on the insurance estimate, if that's what is allowed. It would be terrible business practice to do otherwise - especially when your competitors are submitting invoices for the full estimate.
It should be no surprise to anyone that an industry (roofing) seized an opportunity to make money from insurance companies who were too eager to write claim checks to homeowners.
I had just assumed they'd be much higher but I'll follow your advice and shop it out.
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