the only thing they push back on is paying taxes/tuition and other "third party payment" or "cash like" transactions.

i get it, but would be nice to earn some points there.

a 5-figure Roth transfer bonus paid upfront/untaxed/on top of limits was enough for me to trust my entire Roth there, plus 3% match on contributions/backdoor



and not sure how much trust is needed to just have a credit card offering the best cash back in the game, not like you even have to turn your portfolio over to them

Fidelity: 3% cash back in which we roll 80% into a low risk mutual fund with the other 20% to our granddaughters 529. We use this card for the majority of purchases now.

Southeast Airlines Visa: Probably need to cancel this. This was our go-to. Flew SWA a lot when kids were younger. Don't fly with them much anymore.

United Airlines: We fly from IAH to SFO several times a year to see son and family. Use only for tickets on United flights.

Diggity said:

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Retired Principal said:

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Fidelity: 3% cash back in which we roll 80% into a low risk mutual fund with the other 20% to our granddaughters 529. We use this card for the majority of purchases now.

Southeast Airlines Visa: Probably need to cancel this. This was our go-to. Flew SWA a lot when kids were younger. Don't fly with them much anymore.

United Airlines: We fly from IAH to SFO several times a year to see son and family. Use only for tickets on United flights.

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don't you need to be enrolled in their wealth management program to get that? seems like a pretty big caveat

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Yes.

This thread is interesting. On the related thread that I started, we are told going the cash back route is the worst option you can take with a card.

But this thread seems to be the opposite. To each his own.

arrow said:

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I'm "grandfathered" in to what is effectively a zero fee Capital One Venture. 2X on everything. I'll keep using this card as long as they let me.

Citi AA Executive (Admiral's Club for my family has been worth it for me so far. Although DFW clubs during our recent spring break trip sucked.)

Citi Strata Premier (3X Gas, Groceries, Restaurants. Points now transfer to AA miles)

I'm in the DFW area and have learned I value airport perks more than hotel perks. Currently, American Airlines miles and status offer me the most value when traveling.

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The zero fee Venture card is a big win. I'm grandfathered in at $59/year, which I thought was pretty good. Never knew it was free. Won't be upgrading to Venture X - it's just not worth it. I pretty much just use my points for travel eraser, but I travel enough that I get about 2% back. CapOne travel portal is terrible, though. I have used the VISA Signature hotels perk many times, but it's not as good as it used to be.

Also have the Fidelity 2% back card, which I have been using to pay for things like my home and auto insurance, and a big car repair bill that I had a few months ago. I probably should just use this card 100% of the time, but I still favor the Venture on most day to day purchases.

Kiddo uses my Chase Sapphire (not reserve). He spends enough that we usually end up with enough points to get a free domestic ticket somewhere every couple years or so. I actually wanted him to be an authorized user on my Venture account, but that option is a lot more expensive on CapOne than Chase. Also helps that his spending is kept completely separate from mine, so I can track it. Not sure what I'll do with that card when he graduates and gets his own line.

Mooch off of my BFs Chase United card when we buy United tickets and his Am Ex for Centurion lounge access. I wish Cap One had more lounges. Those are awesome.

Proposition Joe said:

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YouBet said:

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This thread is interesting. On the related thread that I started, we are told going the cash back route is the worst option you can take with a card.

But this thread seems to be the opposite. To each his own.

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Cash back is the easiest, but it's typically the worst value.

Transferring to other travel partners is typically the best value, but it can be a cumbersome process.

Some people like the game. I'll bonus ***** on brokerage and bank account signups, but over the years have decided cash back is the better move for me with CC redemption - get it off my plate and back invested somewhere else.

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Yeah, and I think it makes a difference if you for some reason need a one-time cash infusion for something. In hindsight, I probably should have just converted my recent points transfer to cash because that was $3,700 I could have used for some out of pocket moving/house expenses I'm about to incur. Oh well.

I'm going to run an analysis today comparing AMEX Gold against Citi Strata Elite. Basically determine if expected point accrual from AMEX makes more sense than expected point accrual from Citi Strata and weigh cost/benefit of being able to transfer points to AA using Citi whereas I can't with AMEX.

AA is going to become our primary airline next month so would like to fly free and enjoy the upgrades on that unless AMEX Gold points accrual which is best in class on food and groceries (from what I can tell) makes more sense.

Quote:

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unless AMEX Gold points accrual which is best in class on food and groceries (from what I can tell) makes more sense.

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doesn't sound like this applies to you but for those that keep groceries and restaurants each under 500/month better combo would be AMEX BCP 6% groceries $95 AF + Citi Custom Cash 5% restaurants no AF

the problem with that Citi card (in my case) is the $500 limit. Sadly, I average quite a bit more than that on restaurants, so it would be a PITI to have to track where I am halfway through the month and move to another card.

...and I see you totally referenced that in your post. I'm a lazy reader sometimes.

I'm trying use these Amex Plat/CSR/Hilton Aspire coupons books right now. We are not typically fancy eaters, but I've found some places on our upcoming vacation to use the CSR and Amex dining credits and Hilton resort credits. Plus a the CSR travel credit and I can book excursions through the Chase portal to accrue 8x points while also fulfilling a SUB requirement.

https://www.awardhelper.com/csr-triple-stack

this site helps with that research.

I've found the Resy choices are a lot more plentiful than the Open Table "exclusives" linked to the CSR (especially for cheaper places). I don't have any issue using either them in Houston but could see it being a pain in a smaller city.

Jeeper79 said:

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Ag CPA said:

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BOA Premium Rewards, cash back for daily spend
Amex Plat for airlines and FHR (hotel) bookings (5x)
Amex Gold for restaurants and groceries (4x)
Citi AAdvantage Executive MC for airline miles and club membership
Hilton Amex Aspire, business/leisure travel and using FNAs
Marriott Amex Brilliant, same as Hilton but will probably drop soon, not using as much anymore

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My back of napkin math shows over $2k in annual fees. Do you hold or churn these cards?

We're mostly churning big AF cards right now so I'm not one to talk. We have 2 CSRs, Amex Plat, Amex Bus Gold, and Hilton Aspire. All but the Hilton Aspire will get dropped this year, though. And the Aspire will probably go away after we travel next year.

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Hold all of these. I won't go through all of them (btw someone on the Amex vs Chase thread just did a great analysis of the Platinum card) but we get our AF back on all of these and then some after considering what the FNAs on the hotel cards would have been if paid in cash. The BOA Visa has a $95 AF but you can get a credit of $100 for airline gift cards each year to offset it (also need it to shop at Costco).

The one that is debatable is the Citi card pending what you value an Admirals Club membership because otherwise we just use it to top off AAdvantage miles/loyalty points for status (you also get a loyalty point bonus for certain points milestones unrelated to card spending). Until recently every cardholder got their own membership but Citi started charging another fee for 3 additional cardholder memberships, which still may be worth it if several family members travel a lot.

I've found good benefit from the Amex Plat but they recently closed the loophole to buy "travel bank" credits on United with the $200 incidental perk. You could argue this was never the intended use, but it's worked for 5 years so it's not like they didn't know about. Makes is a bit harder to count that as a pure passthrough benefit.

Not breaking news of course, but the constant waiting list/crowds for the lounges makes that whole experience a lot less beneficial. I have still gotten value on long layovers, but you really need to be there 2 hours before your flight if you plan to actually use it.

I had Amex platinum for years and recently downgraded to basic green. Just didn't see the value - but I'm also not very good at staying up to date with perks and maximizing.

Otherwise I mainly use chase sapphire (personal) and United pres plus for business.

Ag CPA said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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Ag CPA said:

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BOA Premium Rewards, cash back for daily spend
Amex Plat for airlines and FHR (hotel) bookings (5x)
Amex Gold for restaurants and groceries (4x)
Citi AAdvantage Executive MC for airline miles and club membership
Hilton Amex Aspire, business/leisure travel and using FNAs
Marriott Amex Brilliant, same as Hilton but will probably drop soon, not using as much anymore

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My back of napkin math shows over $2k in annual fees. Do you hold or churn these cards?

We're mostly churning big AF cards right now so I'm not one to talk. We have 2 CSRs, Amex Plat, Amex Bus Gold, and Hilton Aspire. All but the Hilton Aspire will get dropped this year, though. And the Aspire will probably go away after we travel next year.

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Hold all of these. I won't go through all of them (btw someone on the Amex vs Chase thread just did a great analysis of the Platinum card) but we get our AF back on all of these and then some after considering what the FNAs on the hotel cards would have been if paid in cash. The BOA Visa has a $95 AF but you can get a credit of $100 for airline gift cards each year to offset it (also need it to shop at Costco).

The one that is debatable is the Citi card pending what you value an Admirals Club membership because otherwise we just use it to top off AAdvantage miles/loyalty points for status (you also get a loyalty point bonus for certain points milestones unrelated to card spending). Until recently every cardholder got their own membership but Citi started charging another fee for 3 additional cardholder memberships, which still may be worth it if several family members travel a lot.

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My buddy's primary card for all spend is that Citi AAdvantage Executive card. He basically flies free on AA because of it and says they get automatically upgraded to First Class about 60-70% of the time without even asking.

how does that work? looks like it gets 1x miles on everything outside of travel.

how much would you have to spend to pay for a majority of your flights? $250K?

the real value seems to be on AA spend....but he wouldn't be doing much of that if most everything is covered.

Diggity said:

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how does that work? looks like it gets 1x miles on everything outside of travel.

how much would you have to spend to pay for a majority of your flights? $250K?

the real value seems to be on AA spend....but he wouldn't be doing much of that if most everything is covered.

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That in bold. He's probably spending around that much. They are well off.

Alright, I pulled trigger on Citi Strate Elite so my setup is essentially going to be to earn points on the Elite and then transfer those over to AA and convert to flights. Will pay for taxes and fees for points flights using my existing Citi AAdvantage card to secure the flight benefits that card gets me.

Downgrading CSR to Chase Unlimited Freedom to lose that fee. I'll regain most of the cost of the Elite card so it's going to be overall net cheaper than the CSR by a good bit and makes more sense than upgrading the AMEX to gold since I'm going to focus on points conversion to AA.

I do see the upside of "picking a horse" for spending and being a king/queen in some manner, but can't help myself. I need to find the exact most efficient way to extract value for each purchase. It's a sickness, but I've seen worse.

I read blogs about people who are much crazier than me, so that makes me feel better

YouBet said:

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Alright, I pulled trigger on Citi Strate Elite so my setup is essentially going to be to earn points on the Elite and then transfer those over to AA and convert to flights. Will pay for taxes and fees for points flights using my existing Citi AAdvantage card to secure the flight benefits that card gets me.

Downgrading CSR to Chase Unlimited Freedom to lose that fee. I'll regain most of the cost of the Elite card so it's going to be overall net cheaper than the CSR by a good bit and makes more sense than upgrading the AMEX to gold since I'm going to focus on points conversion to AA.

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Im looking to do something similar a year from now when renewal comes up, but probably just downgrade to CSP since I already have a Freedom Unlimited. Plus I'll divest most of my hotel cards. Then I'll consider Strata Premier coupled with a Double Cash currently in a drawer.

Diggity said:

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I do see the upside of "picking a horse" for spending and being a king/queen in some manner, but can't help myself. I need to find the exact most efficient way to extract value for each purchase. It's a sickness, but I've seen worse.

I read blogs about people who are much crazier than me, so that makes me feel better

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The way to extract the most value out of every purchase is to churn cards and always be chasing a new sign up bonus lol. Most of us aren't getting many points from the day to day spending unless you're a super big spender.

Most of my points come from the large sign up bonuses, not my daily spend.

Texag5324 said:

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Diggity said:

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I do see the upside of "picking a horse" for spending and being a king/queen in some manner, but can't help myself. I need to find the exact most efficient way to extract value for each purchase. It's a sickness, but I've seen worse.

I read blogs about people who are much crazier than me, so that makes me feel better

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The way to extract the most value out of every purchase is to churn cards and always be chasing a new sign up bonus lol. Most of us aren't getting many points from the day to day spending unless you're a super big spender.

Most of my points come from the large sign up bonuses, not my daily spend.

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Valid. And now that we personally don't take out loans for anything Im not sure I really care if my credit score takes a hit for churning. (I'm not sure that it even does; I've just never done it because it seems like work.)

Correct. That's what I was referring to with the forums. There's people who have all sorts of creative methods for manufactured spend but it sounds exhausting.

A lot of the spend you see on the forums comes from business spend, and you see a lot of people in that arena not account for the respective bonuses properly in their taxes.

YouBet said:

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Texag5324 said:

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Diggity said:

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I do see the upside of "picking a horse" for spending and being a king/queen in some manner, but can't help myself. I need to find the exact most efficient way to extract value for each purchase. It's a sickness, but I've seen worse.

I read blogs about people who are much crazier than me, so that makes me feel better

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The way to extract the most value out of every purchase is to churn cards and always be chasing a new sign up bonus lol. Most of us aren't getting many points from the day to day spending unless you're a super big spender.

Most of my points come from the large sign up bonuses, not my daily spend.

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Valid. And now that we personally don't take out loans for anything Im not sure I really care if my credit score takes a hit for churning. (I'm not sure that it even does; I've just never done it because it seems like work.)

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My wife is a relatively heavy churner (10+ cards) and her credit score is in the 820s. I'm an extremely heavy churner (15+ cards) and my credit score is in the 750s. I figure as long as one of us stays 800+, there's not a loan we can't qualify if we ever decide we need one. Not that we actually need one.

Texag5324 said:

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Diggity said:

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I do see the upside of "picking a horse" for spending and being a king/queen in some manner, but can't help myself. I need to find the exact most efficient way to extract value for each purchase. It's a sickness, but I've seen worse.

I read blogs about people who are much crazier than me, so that makes me feel better

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The way to extract the most value out of every purchase is to churn cards and always be chasing a new sign up bonus lol. Most of us aren't getting many points from the day to day spending unless you're a super big spender.

Most of my points come from the large sign up bonuses, not my daily spend.

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Same. I have this master plan to put regular spend across several cards, but the reality is that I end up using mostly one card for regular spend and the overage goes towards SUBs. Without manufacturing spend, you can either optimize or churn, but I find it hard to do both.

FIL past away about a year ago with 20 cards. What a raging cluster F@&$% he left us to deal with. Lawyer we had to hire to deal with the debt in a legal manner gonna cost a ton. Luckily the house had 100K in equity. After all the cost of keeping up the mortgage, selling the house, lawyers....

We'll be happy if theres 50K left


I've always just kept 1 card. Now theres no way I'd ever be a card collector to chase rewards.

jamey said:

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FIL past away about a year ago with 20 cards. What a raging cluster F@&$% he left us to deal with. Lawyer we had to hire to deal with the debt in a legal manner gonna cost a ton. Luckily the house had 100K in equity. After all the cost of keeping up the mortgage, selling the house, lawyers....

We'll be happy if theres 50K left


I've always just kept 1 card. Now theres no way I'd ever be a card collector to chase rewards.

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Youre missing out on tons of points/miles for free flights. I dont know about you, but I like traveling for free lol.

Also, this sounds like a debt issue, not a card churning issue from your FIL.