To me that's part of what's so strange about it. You've got some players who are incredibly involved students which is actually really unusual this day and age.
"Please stay, but if you're going to leave, then hurry"
11,381 Views |
157 Replies |
Last: 1 yr ago by Method Man
agree -- we need a balance there. The guys that get A&M tend to be too nice. Jimbo was a good example too...until he wasn't. He clearly knew next to nothing about this university when he accepted the job and it showed. Little by little, it became very evident that the dude fell in love with this place. Losing soured that over time, but he too fell into the antagonist trap...at least as much with media as with the fanbase. But, I'm glad we put the pressure on we did in that case. The contract was the biggest of its kind at the time and historic.TjgtAg08 said:
That's fair, but I think what has gotten us into trouble in the past is when we take that idea 2-3 steps too far and only hire guys with either A&M ties or guys who "get A&M" as a pre-requisite of the job.
Hire the guy that's going to do the things it takes to win - if he wins at a high level (which is entirely possible in every sport at A&M), fans are going to love him and then he only has to BARELY buy into the Cult for him to be considered the GOAT.
Schloss is a great example. Won a lot of games, elite coach, wasn't really a big rah-rah guy but bought in a tiny bit any everyone LOVED him. Obviously he's a bad example now, but at the time it was a perfect example.
DTP02 said:TjgtAg08 said:
The niche and image Buzz has created here at A&M is very interesting.
In college sports there are the coaches that are very much pro their school and outwardly representing what their school is about - Coach O at LSU, Bruce Pearl, Dabo, Sam Pittman, Marcus Freeman, even Dennis Gates as Mizzou - and there are coaches that seem to be great reps for just their programs and players, but are neutral reps for their schools as far as traditions and fan buy-in - Coach Cal, Rick Barnes, Saban, etc - and I think either of those ideals are great, because winning is the bottom line no matter what.
But then there are guys like Buzz, who are all about their players and almost rudely ambivalent or ignorant (and even slightly hostile) about the school they represent. I think Buzz as a human and his values is a great representative of Texas A&M, but do I think he cares at all about the fact that he works at Texas A&M? No, I don't. And that's frustrating. It's easy to ignore when a team is winning, but when they struggle, it's really hard to feel any sympathy at all or patience with the coach.
I think you've got it exactly backwards if the way Buzz handles stuff off-court makes you less patient of him than the average replacement coach when we're losing. I can't understand that at all.
I think, instead, is that Buzz is a quirky guy so when people inevitably lash out in frustration when we lose, there's lots of non-basketball stuff to irrationally criticize.
Some of you who don't have as close a view of things may not be able to fully appreciate the difference, but I'm sure you've noticed it to some extent. These players, almost without fail, are more involved in A&M life and appreciative of its uniqueness and traditions, and more real and relatable than the vast majority of other Aggie athletes, especially in a revenue sport. If you don't think some of that comes from Buzz I don't know what to tell you.
Winning is the bottom line. It's a competitive sport, and a bigtime one at that. But the types of kids Buzz brings in, and the way they represent us on and off the court, should buy him more patience and consideration, if anything.
I think there is a difference between "off the court" with players and "off the court" with fans/alumni/boosters.
I don't think there are 10 coaches in America in any sport who foster a better group of young men than Buzz Williams, and that is directly reflected in their attitudes, how they compose themselves, how they interact with fans, how they are on social media, etc. It's incredible.
And none of the philosophy stuff about Buzz bothers me, win or lose. It's quirky, as you put it - it's probably true, raw Buzz Williams.
But there are many examples of things Buzz has said during press conferences that have created this "me and my players against the world including our school and fans" aura. He's been very open that he doesn't like to glad hand, he doesn't want to chat and be part of the community, especially if anything is critical in nature (even if it's warranted) and he doesn't want to put in the local legwork to drum up support.
And that's not a comment on the players, or a comment on the type of man Buzz is. But it's frustrating and can be annoying, and I just don't get it.
But I also don't want him to go/get fired - I'm kinda excited to see what he does in the portal, because he's got a good track record.
bobinator said:
To me that's part of what's so strange about it. You've got some players who are incredibly involved students which is actually really unusual this day and age.
To that I would say the proof is in the pudding, and having abnormally loyal and involved students who play a revenue sport in this era is the pudding.
People who care more about how it gets there than they appreciate the fact that it does get there is more of a commentary on them than Buzz or his program IMO.
well said and that's how I see it too. Just give a sliver of that community building inside the locker room to outside the locker room, and the masses will flock. Or, if you simply refuse to or can't, then hire someone to be the liaison and reap the benefits...cuz they'll be plentiful in these parts.TjgtAg08 said:DTP02 said:TjgtAg08 said:
The niche and image Buzz has created here at A&M is very interesting.
In college sports there are the coaches that are very much pro their school and outwardly representing what their school is about - Coach O at LSU, Bruce Pearl, Dabo, Sam Pittman, Marcus Freeman, even Dennis Gates as Mizzou - and there are coaches that seem to be great reps for just their programs and players, but are neutral reps for their schools as far as traditions and fan buy-in - Coach Cal, Rick Barnes, Saban, etc - and I think either of those ideals are great, because winning is the bottom line no matter what.
But then there are guys like Buzz, who are all about their players and almost rudely ambivalent or ignorant (and even slightly hostile) about the school they represent. I think Buzz as a human and his values is a great representative of Texas A&M, but do I think he cares at all about the fact that he works at Texas A&M? No, I don't. And that's frustrating. It's easy to ignore when a team is winning, but when they struggle, it's really hard to feel any sympathy at all or patience with the coach.
I think you've got it exactly backwards if the way Buzz handles stuff off-court makes you less patient of him than the average replacement coach when we're losing. I can't understand that at all.
I think, instead, is that Buzz is a quirky guy so when people inevitably lash out in frustration when we lose, there's lots of non-basketball stuff to irrationally criticize.
Some of you who don't have as close a view of things may not be able to fully appreciate the difference, but I'm sure you've noticed it to some extent. These players, almost without fail, are more involved in A&M life and appreciative of its uniqueness and traditions, and more real and relatable than the vast majority of other Aggie athletes, especially in a revenue sport. If you don't think some of that comes from Buzz I don't know what to tell you.
Winning is the bottom line. It's a competitive sport, and a bigtime one at that. But the types of kids Buzz brings in, and the way they represent us on and off the court, should buy him more patience and consideration, if anything.
I think there is a difference between "off the court" with players and "off the court" with fans/alumni/boosters.
I don't think there are 10 coaches in America in any sport who foster a better group of young men than Buzz Williams, and that is directly reflected in their attitudes, how they compose themselves, how they interact with fans, how they are on social media, etc. It's incredible.
And none of the philosophy stuff about Buzz bothers me, win or lose. It's quirky, as you put it - it's probably true, raw Buzz Williams.
But there are many examples of things Buzz has said during press conferences that have created this "me and my players against the world including our school and fans" aura. He's been very open that he doesn't like to glad hand, he doesn't want to chat and be part of the community, especially if anything is critical in nature (even if it's warranted) and he doesn't want to put in the local legwork to drum up support.
And that's not a comment on the players, or a comment on the type of man Buzz is. But it's frustrating and can be annoying, and I just don't get it.
But I also don't want him to go/get fired - I'm kinda excited to see what he does in the portal, because he's got a good track record.
He didn't do that at VT or Marquette. I'm 100% convinced that was the philosophy the last two years because it fit our personnel the best. Andy, Coleman, solo, Jace etc are all elite rebounder for their sizePatAg said:
my biggest concern so far, and going forward, is he has openly stated his offensive goal is to just get any shot up and crash the boards.
Is that truly his actual offensive philosophy, or is that what he created to optimize this roster?
Those are 2 drastically different things. If its his philosophy, fire him today and get a real coach.
If it was the best idea they had to maximize this roster, that can be rectified any year by recruiting and NIL portal.
Im concerned he has settled on it being his offensive philosophy now
Even 3 years ago with Q, boots, and Wade the team operated very differently
Heck Even until last year it wasn't our philosophy until they had that losing streak and needed to re-invent themselves. It was all calculated to what would give this group the best chance and I think it was to be truthful
I want to agree with you...my fear has been that he thinks he's onto something and thinks he found the magic pill and formula. If he truly went down this weird moneyball rebounding rabbit hole just because of the roster, I feel like there's some serious stuff I'd have done differently. Also, how bad are these high potential youngsters if we couldn't incorporate them when no one else could shoot their way out of a paper bag?AggieCrew44 said:He didn't do that at VT or Marquette. I'm 100% convinced that was the philosophy the last two years because it fit our personnel the best. Andy, Coleman, solo, Jace etc are all elite rebounder for their sizePatAg said:
my biggest concern so far, and going forward, is he has openly stated his offensive goal is to just get any shot up and crash the boards.
Is that truly his actual offensive philosophy, or is that what he created to optimize this roster?
Those are 2 drastically different things. If its his philosophy, fire him today and get a real coach.
If it was the best idea they had to maximize this roster, that can be rectified any year by recruiting and NIL portal.
Im concerned he has settled on it being his offensive philosophy now
Even 3 years ago with Q, boots, and Wade the team operated very differently
Even until last year it wasn't our philosophy until they had that losing streak and needed to re-invent themselves. It was all calculated to what would give this group the best chance and I think it was to be truthful
I'm hoping for a new approach with the incoming youth movement and transfers, but with a healthy reliance on defense and rebounding to complement (and not the focal point of our whole existence).
Heck, I don't get A&M.
Yeah but having his players be involved doesn't make up for the fact that he isn't. Two separate things.
Sorry OP. I don't care for the title of this thread. Of course, there are as many opinions as there are posts.
Buzz is introverted and not a glad hander. He would rather be reading a book or teaching a leadership
course than handing out candy before the game.
I do agree the WADE Ceremomy was sort of awkward. It was late on a week night. People trying to leave.
His words likely misunderstood, etc.
I would also like to see some offense and better free throw shooting. May need a new assistant coach.
Hope he can do well in the portal. I think he has some talent waiting to play and some coming in as fish.
Already has a good interior group with Payne, Solo and McDermot if they stay here, and I hope they do.
As I have posted in other related Buzz threads, I will be surprised if he leaves. Yes, he has to rebuild here,
but doubt there is a job out there that does not need building or the job would not be open. And does it pay at least the 4.4 million per year Buzz has here for 3 more yrs!
Buzz is introverted and not a glad hander. He would rather be reading a book or teaching a leadership
course than handing out candy before the game.
I do agree the WADE Ceremomy was sort of awkward. It was late on a week night. People trying to leave.
His words likely misunderstood, etc.
I would also like to see some offense and better free throw shooting. May need a new assistant coach.
Hope he can do well in the portal. I think he has some talent waiting to play and some coming in as fish.
Already has a good interior group with Payne, Solo and McDermot if they stay here, and I hope they do.
As I have posted in other related Buzz threads, I will be surprised if he leaves. Yes, he has to rebuild here,
but doubt there is a job out there that does not need building or the job would not be open. And does it pay at least the 4.4 million per year Buzz has here for 3 more yrs!
He absolutely hyper-fixated on an analytic. He wasn't like this at VT or Marquette.
Was it by design or to fit his roster?
There's a lot of guys on this roster that proved early on here or at previous stops that they were good shooters. This wasn't a bare shooting cupboard.
We shoved Flagg out the door and gave Hefner 5 years of double-digit minutes. This wasn't adaptation, this was by design.
Was it by design or to fit his roster?
There's a lot of guys on this roster that proved early on here or at previous stops that they were good shooters. This wasn't a bare shooting cupboard.
We shoved Flagg out the door and gave Hefner 5 years of double-digit minutes. This wasn't adaptation, this was by design.
Proposition Joe said:
He absolutely hyper-fixated on an analytic. He wasn't like this at VT or Marquette.
Was it by design or to fit his roster?
There's a lot of guys on this roster that proved early on here or at previous stops that they were good shooters. This wasn't a bare shooting cupboard.
We shoved Flagg out the door and gave Hefner 5 years of double-digit minutes. This wasn't adaptation, this was by design.
I hate that you're probably right. He needs to go back in time a bit to when he had a healthier love of shooting.
I get this post but I worry that there are things that we don't know.
I think there is a political element with A&M that is an undercurrent to these coaches. Jimbo isolated himself. Schloss got the hell out of here. Now we are talking about Buzz.
I think there is a problem about the pollical dynamic of what is happening behind the scenes. I wish they would interview coaches that leave and let them tell us what actually goes on.
I think there is a political element with A&M that is an undercurrent to these coaches. Jimbo isolated himself. Schloss got the hell out of here. Now we are talking about Buzz.
I think there is a problem about the pollical dynamic of what is happening behind the scenes. I wish they would interview coaches that leave and let them tell us what actually goes on.
We didn't lose Flagg and keep Hefner because of their style of play though, those are separate issues. It's not like Buzz thinks Hefner is a better player than Flagg.Proposition Joe said:
We shoved Flagg out the door and gave Hefner 5 years of double-digit minutes. This wasn't adaptation, this was by design.
I think you could make the argument that Buzz wants "his kind of guys" and then once he has them he's going to try and figure out how to make them play that wins the most games, but the way you phrased this makes it seem like he's watching video of guys make shots and he's like "absolutely not, not enough bricks for me."
There's a political element everywhere. That's not unique to us.
I do think we've had an almost unbelievable lack of leadership as an institution for going on about ten years now that's trickled down.
I do think we've had an almost unbelievable lack of leadership as an institution for going on about ten years now that's trickled down.
I actually love the offensive rebounding approach we had, I'd just like to see it paired with some actual offensive sets and a certain approach.
You can still crash the boards on "predictable shots"... But it seemed like far too often we had a few things that look like they might be working and then it was time for shift change for the next wave of board-crashers and it we never saw what was working again.
You can tell from his early press conferences how he'd hyper-fixate on analytics, and I said it back then and continue to believe he often times missed the forest for the trees. He'd hyper-fixate on these things that would make a great team elite, but not put time into the things that make a good team great.
Be elite at crashing the boards for offensive rebounds getting more shots in a game than your opponent? It works... but you need to be at least close to competent in shooting %.
Attacking the paint and getting to the free throw stripe 10 more times a game than your opponent? It ain't pretty, but the numbers absolutely say it works... but you need to be at least close to competent in free throw shooting.
You can still crash the boards on "predictable shots"... But it seemed like far too often we had a few things that look like they might be working and then it was time for shift change for the next wave of board-crashers and it we never saw what was working again.
You can tell from his early press conferences how he'd hyper-fixate on analytics, and I said it back then and continue to believe he often times missed the forest for the trees. He'd hyper-fixate on these things that would make a great team elite, but not put time into the things that make a good team great.
Be elite at crashing the boards for offensive rebounds getting more shots in a game than your opponent? It works... but you need to be at least close to competent in shooting %.
Attacking the paint and getting to the free throw stripe 10 more times a game than your opponent? It ain't pretty, but the numbers absolutely say it works... but you need to be at least close to competent in free throw shooting.
Regarding him making up his mind about next year...
The biggest rumor was he was retiring. That was the one coming from Aggies. The fact he said they were hitting the portal recruiting this week tells me he isn't retiring. So I think we can put that to bed at this point Unless he is going to do the Tony Bennett thing and retire late so they have to let one of his assistants take over and get a shot for a year.
The biggest rumor was he was retiring. That was the one coming from Aggies. The fact he said they were hitting the portal recruiting this week tells me he isn't retiring. So I think we can put that to bed at this point Unless he is going to do the Tony Bennett thing and retire late so they have to let one of his assistants take over and get a shot for a year.
Agree.....Buzz definetly wants his kind of guy....one that will do his boot camp, play defense
and be good with the rest of the team re chemistry! Just needs to add shooting with the
other criteria.
and be good with the rest of the team re chemistry! Just needs to add shooting with the
other criteria.
Proposition Joe said:
I actually love the offensive rebounding approach we had, I'd just like to see it paired with some actual offensive sets and a certain approach.
You can still crash the boards on "predictable shots"... But it seemed like far too often we had a few things that look like they might be working and then it was time for shift change for the next wave of board-crashers and it we never saw what was working again.
You can tell from his early press conferences how he'd hyper-fixate on analytics, and I said it back then and continue to believe he often times missed the forest for the trees. He'd hyper-fixate on these things that would make a great team elite, but not put time into the things that make a good team great.
Be elite at crashing the boards for offensive rebounds getting more shots in a game than your opponent? It works... but you need to be at least close to competent in shooting %.
Attacking the paint and getting to the free throw stripe 10 more times a game than your opponent? It ain't pretty, but the numbers absolutely say it works... but you need to be at least close to competent in free throw shooting.
Yep, it doesn't have to be an either or. Like I just want to shake the dude and be like what if i told you you could still have guys focus on defense and rebounding AND have a non-childish offense. Would that blow your mind bro?!
It's why I think his system strips our gut feel, hot hand, etc. The hockey line change analogy is a good one.
bobinator said:We didn't lose Flagg and keep Hefner because of their style of play though, those are separate issues. It's not like Buzz thinks Hefner is a better player than Flagg.Proposition Joe said:
We shoved Flagg out the door and gave Hefner 5 years of double-digit minutes. This wasn't adaptation, this was by design.
I think you could make the argument that Buzz wants "his kind of guys" and then once he has them he's going to try and figure out how to make them play that wins the most games, but the way you phrased this makes it seem like he's watching video of guys make shots and he's like "absolutely not, not enough bricks for me."
"his kind of guys" is just another way of saying "style of play".
Savion Flagg scored 14pts/game on 46.7% shooting as a sophomore.
Hayden Hefner scored 3.5pts/game on 38.7% shooting as a sophomore.
One seemingly got pushed out the door, the other played 5 years of double-digit minutes.
But we're now gonna act like it's a mystery why our shooting was so bad?
"his kind of guys" is by design.
Yeah, like let's spend a few minutes less working on blocking out and a few more on setting a halfway decent screen or passing the ball into the shooting pocket.
This scenario played out at least a half dozen times a game or so: a guard calls for a pick up top, big comes to set the pick, the defender slides through the pick and doesn't lose contact with the guard, (and that was often without the defensive big even having to hedge) so now there's nowhere for the guard to go and we just have to reset the whole thing and try again.
For me the microcosm of our season on offense was I think the Tennessee game where we brought Wilcher in and ran a set play just to spring him open for a three, and miracle of miracles, it actually worked and he was open, only for Garcia's pass to hit him in the feet.
This scenario played out at least a half dozen times a game or so: a guard calls for a pick up top, big comes to set the pick, the defender slides through the pick and doesn't lose contact with the guard, (and that was often without the defensive big even having to hedge) so now there's nowhere for the guard to go and we just have to reset the whole thing and try again.
For me the microcosm of our season on offense was I think the Tennessee game where we brought Wilcher in and ran a set play just to spring him open for a three, and miracle of miracles, it actually worked and he was open, only for Garcia's pass to hit him in the feet.
No it isn't, you're just choosing to interpret it that way. Maybe it's how they participate in meetings or the effort they show in drills in practice, who the hell knows what makes Buzz fall in love with one player over another. It doesn't mean he thinks that player is necessarily better than the other one, it could just mean he thinks they fit his "culture" better than the other one and that in the long term the team is going to be better by having that player on the team versus the other one.Proposition Joe said:
"his kind of guys" is just another way of saying "style of play".
bobinator said:
Yeah, like let's spend a few minutes less working on blocking out and a few more on setting a halfway decent screen or passing the ball into the shooting pocket.
This scenario played out at least a half dozen times a game or so: a guard calls for a pick up top, big comes to set the pick, the defender slides through the pick and doesn't lose contact with the guard, (and that was often without the defensive big even having to hedge) so now there's nowhere for the guard to go and we just have to reset the whole thing and try again.
For me the microcosm of our season on offense was I think the Tennessee game where we brought Wilcher in and ran a set play just to spring him open for a three, and miracle of miracles, it actually worked and he was open, only for Garcia's pass to hit him in the feet.
Or Buzz runs a set play to start the Michigan game and has a picture-perfect alley-oop and Hefner blows it.
We actually ran some really nice set plays the other night. A vivid one in my memory was a a double pick for Wilcher that got the defender trailing. Of course the Hef failed lob lol
Our issue was defense more than offense. We gave up 91 to an average at best offensive basketball team
Our issue was defense more than offense. We gave up 91 to an average at best offensive basketball team
The sheer audacity to run a lob for Hefner was wild.
Specifically our issue was fouling and giving up rebounds. That's what was so frustrating about it. We held Michigan to 43% shooting and 29% 3pt shooting but gave up 17 second chance points and 29 points at the free throw line.
That was annoying. If they'd have just beaten our defense the way really good teams normally beat it then fine, but they didn't.
That was annoying. If they'd have just beaten our defense the way really good teams normally beat it then fine, but they didn't.
bobinator said:No it isn't, you're just choosing to interpret it that way. Maybe it's how they participate in meetings or the effort they show in drills in practice, who the hell knows what makes Buzz fall in love with one player over another. It doesn't mean he thinks that player is necessarily better than the other one, it could just mean he thinks they fit his "culture" better than the other one and that in the long term the team is going to be better by having that player on the team versus the other one.Proposition Joe said:
"his kind of guys" is just another way of saying "style of play".
So... by design?
We had a number of players that absolutely stalled in their offensive development under Buzz. In my example of Flagg, we had a guy who as a sophomore looked like he would be an offensive force in the league and Buzz comes in and he winds up transferring and being an offensive force at his new school.
But then Hayden Hefner who never really showed any inkling of being an above-average producer gets 5 years here and averages double-digit minutes.
Too many posters just insist on tip-toeing it around it because it's being critical of a player... But man at some point you gotta call a spade a spade - the career minutes he logged is proof positive that Buzz chose this offensive bed to sleep in.
Did he think Hefner was a better player than Flagg? I doubt it.
But if he thought Hefner gave our program a better chance of winning then I'd question his evaluation skills -- and our historically bad shooting % does as well.
And you are right - I don't know exactly the reason. For all I know Savion just decided he didn't love it in College Station... Buzz and TexAgs sure didn't give us any insight. But based on the offensive development we've seen from players under Buzz, and based on the gimimcky offense we started running, I'd say there's a decent chance Savion just wanted to play basketball and Buzz wanted to test out his Moneyball theory.
bobinator said:
Specifically our issue was fouling and giving up rebounds. That's what was so frustrating about it. We held Michigan to 43% shooting and 29% 3pt shooting but gave up 17 second chance points and 29 points at the free throw line.
That was annoying. If they'd have just beaten our defense the way really good teams normally beat it then fine, but they didn't.
"Fouling." It wasn't what lost us the game, but damn, it sure put us in a situation where we needed buzz to outsmart coach may…and you never want buzz in a situation forced to outsmart Xs and Os wise
No one expected it, so there is that! 
bobinator said:
The sheer audacity to run a lob for Hefner was wild.
It was perfect. It was the perfect "oh I can't design a play?" ****-you to the TexAgs crowd.
But he just couldn't account for everything.
Yep fouling was a massive issue, I'll maintain some of those during that run were incredibly weak. You could just tell it wasn't going to end wellbobinator said:
Specifically our issue was fouling and giving up rebounds. That's what was so frustrating about it. We held Michigan to 43% shooting and 29% 3pt shooting but gave up 17 second chance points and 29 points at the free throw line.
That was annoying. If they'd have just beaten our defense the way really good teams normally beat it then fine, but they didn't.
Unless Buzz wants to retire or try broadcasting, we're his best option. No big time program is giving him nearly 5 million like we are. He reminds of Turgeon in that he thinks he is better than this job, but he is actually a perfect fit for it.
He is not an elite HC, and most elite programs wouldn't tolerate him. However, here going to the tourney regularly is great, and will keep you employed and paid well. He should appreciate it.
He is not an elite HC, and most elite programs wouldn't tolerate him. However, here going to the tourney regularly is great, and will keep you employed and paid well. He should appreciate it.
How many of ya'll are blocked by Buzz on X?
JJxvi said:
How many of ya'll are blocked by Buzz on X?
I don't follow his personal account, so he doesn't know who I am. Plus I never tweet myself. I just saw MarkAg tweet he got blocked today. That dude is bigger Buzz guy than me and is not a negative tweeter. Talk about alienating your fanbase
AgEfan said:JJxvi said:
How many of ya'll are blocked by Buzz on X?
I don't follow his personal account, so he doesn't know who I am. Plus I never tweet myself. I just saw MarkAg tweet he got blocked today. That dude is bigger Buzz guy than me and is not a negative tweeter. Talk about alienating your fanbase
What'd he say?
Featured Stories
See All
Recruiting Rankings Update: Shifts in classes of 2027, 2028 & 2029
by Cade Draughon
1:31
1h ago
884
Costly two-out damage sinks No. 18 Texas A&M in San Marcos
by Richard Zane
63:08
7h ago
1.5k
B-Team: Reviewing the Final Four, favorite college hoopers & more
by Ryan Brauninger
17:15
14h ago
2.5k
AggieTurf
FINAL from San Marcos: Texas State 9, No. 18 Texas A&M 8
in Billy Liucci's TexAgs Premium
2