"Please stay, but if you're going to leave, then hurry"

11,387 Views | 157 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Method Man
AgEfan
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zgolfz85 said:

AgEfan said:

JJxvi said:

How many of ya'll are blocked by Buzz on X?


I don't follow his personal account, so he doesn't know who I am. Plus I never tweet myself. I just saw MarkAg tweet he got blocked today. That dude is bigger Buzz guy than me and is not a negative tweeter. Talk about alienating your fanbase


What'd he say?


MarkAg? No negative tweets about Buzz or the team. He didn't even tweet anything negative about the Michigan loss

This is the most critical thing I could find and that's not even critical. I'm sure he will post soon and can answer it better





zgolfz85
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AgEfan said:

zgolfz85 said:

AgEfan said:

JJxvi said:

How many of ya'll are blocked by Buzz on X?


I don't follow his personal account, so he doesn't know who I am. Plus I never tweet myself. I just saw MarkAg tweet he got blocked today. That dude is bigger Buzz guy than me and is not a negative tweeter. Talk about alienating your fanbase


What'd he say?


MarkAg? No negative tweets about Buzz or the team. He didn't even tweet anything negative about the Michigan loss

This is the most critical thing I could find and that's not even critical. I'm sure he will post soon and can answer it better








Yeah that's as tame as it gets. Yikes
mikesyracuse1
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Proposition Joe said:

It's Buzz. He loves to hear himself talk. Wants everyone to know he's an intellectual. And to be fair, the guy has a **** ton of great wisdom... But he wants to make sure you know that. You can almost see the gears turning in his head when they get the 30 second clip heading into halftime on what the team needs to better... "what can I say that sounds really deep and is not at all an actual answer ".


I think there's much more to his thought process and answers and there's some major over compensation for how he processes information. This often comes back out as a bizzare answer that most don't think is important outside of his own mind.

Mikesyracuse1
TyperWoods
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bobinator said:

Yeah like I don't expect him to show up at football games in the front row with his chest painted like a Bruce Pearl, but if you want a community of support you have to build a community of support. You can't just isolate yourself and run the program with a "trust me bro" mentality and expect fans to just keep rallying behind you when things go a little sideways.

But you know who does show up at basketball and baseball games? Elko.

Buzz could do a little more of that kind of stuff. He doesn't have to be the 6th Yell Leader or anything. But he could do something once or twice a season.
Proposition Joe
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mikesyracuse1 said:

Proposition Joe said:

It's Buzz. He loves to hear himself talk. Wants everyone to know he's an intellectual. And to be fair, the guy has a **** ton of great wisdom... But he wants to make sure you know that. You can almost see the gears turning in his head when they get the 30 second clip heading into halftime on what the team needs to better... "what can I say that sounds really deep and is not at all an actual answer ".


I think there's much more to his thought process and answers and there's some major over compensation for how he processes information. This often comes back out as a bizzare answer that most don't think is important outside of his own mind.

Mikesyracuse1

I think the word for it is pretentious.

Mind you, pretentious with an enormous heart, loyal and strive to improve.

But still pretentious.
AWP 97
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Buzz is not a great coach. I think many of you misuse that word. Honestly, I might debate him even being a good coach. However, I'll give him good. Unfortunately, A&M probably can't do much better. This is what you get. Buzz will continue to stress defense and sacrifice offense. This team is painful to watch. They look like football players trying to play basketball.
Aston04
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Quote:

But then Hayden Hefner who never really showed any inkling of being an above-average producer gets 5 years here and averages double-digit minutes.

Too many posters just insist on tip-toeing it around it because it's being critical of a player... But man at some point you gotta call a spade a spade - the career minutes he logged is proof positive that Buzz chose this offensive bed to sleep in.

Did he think Hefner was a better player than Flagg? I doubt it.

But if he thought Hefner gave our program a better chance of winning then I'd question his evaluation skills -- and our historically bad shooting % does as well.
This. I've been a broken record around saying it was roster mismanagement (at best) to go into numerous seasons with Hef planned as a major contributor.

It's one thing to recruit him and then realize he doesn't have the goods. It's another to hang onto that mediocre player for 5 years, play him a bunch and repeat the mistake over and over.
DTP02
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Proposition Joe said:

mikesyracuse1 said:

Proposition Joe said:

It's Buzz. He loves to hear himself talk. Wants everyone to know he's an intellectual. And to be fair, the guy has a **** ton of great wisdom... But he wants to make sure you know that. You can almost see the gears turning in his head when they get the 30 second clip heading into halftime on what the team needs to better... "what can I say that sounds really deep and is not at all an actual answer ".


I think there's much more to his thought process and answers and there's some major over compensation for how he processes information. This often comes back out as a bizzare answer that most don't think is important outside of his own mind.

Mikesyracuse1

I think the word for it is pretentious.

Mind you, pretentious with an enormous heart, loyal and strive to improve.

But still pretentious.

You've got him pegged all wrong.
Proposition Joe
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DTP02 said:

Proposition Joe said:

mikesyracuse1 said:

Proposition Joe said:

It's Buzz. He loves to hear himself talk. Wants everyone to know he's an intellectual. And to be fair, the guy has a **** ton of great wisdom... But he wants to make sure you know that. You can almost see the gears turning in his head when they get the 30 second clip heading into halftime on what the team needs to better... "what can I say that sounds really deep and is not at all an actual answer ".


I think there's much more to his thought process and answers and there's some major over compensation for how he processes information. This often comes back out as a bizzare answer that most don't think is important outside of his own mind.

Mikesyracuse1

I think the word for it is pretentious.

Mind you, pretentious with an enormous heart, loyal and strive to improve.

But still pretentious.

You've got him pegged all wrong.

Could very well be, I've never met the guy.

But I've heard the guy tell multiple people at different stops that he "doesn't have an agent", that he "writes his own contracts", and that "he gets to work at 5am". It's a running joke how often he lets commentators know what books he's reading.

So if not pretentious, then just really, really loves to talk about himself and hear himself talk.
Luke The Drifter
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Buzz is definitely pretentious and eccentric. And I don't mean those as put downs or slander...it's just who he is. He has a quirky personality, but that's OK. So he's not exactly like every other college basketball coach personality-wise. Who cares?

But those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint. Isaiah 40:31 (NIV)
TMF
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At the end of the day I don't believe he is worth the money. He underperforms based on compensation of his peers.
AggieCrew44
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TMF said:

At the end of the day I don't believe he is worth the money. He underperforms based on compensation of his peers.
Hes pretty much on par with his salary. He's 17th nationally and 7th in SEC pay. That comes out to… a second round exit and top 7 SEC finish

Not arguing we shouldn't expect more, just don't understand this precedent that we pay him like an elite coach
Ag13
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Us against the world mentality is going to be on full display when he retires and cites social media harassment as a contributing factor. Blocking random Aggie fans that aren't even that critical and aren't tweeting directly at him is such a weak move. Especially for someone that claims to not care what anyone else thinks.
Proposition Joe
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Here's a list of Top 25 salaried coaches without a S16 appearance at their current school:

Fred Hoiberg - Nebraska - school had 1 tourney appearance in the 20 years preceding him
Jamie Dixon - TCU - school had 1 tourney appearance in the 28 years preceding him
Buzz Williams - Texas A&M


So two schools that were an absolute basketball wasteland for decades before their current coach... and Texas A&M.
TjgtAg08
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Luke The Drifter said:

Buzz is definitely pretentious and eccentric. And I don't mean those as put downs or slander...it's just who he is. He has a quirky personality, but that's OK. So he's not exactly like every other college basketball coach personality-wise. Who cares?




It only matters if (or because) it puts the program at a recruiting and retention disadvantage compared to the competition.

There is no debate the Buzz isn't a fan of NIL and doing the glad-handing things with alumni and boosters needed to drum up a lot of monetary support for the roster. He's said as much many times in not so many words. Is that preventing us from getting better players and therefore winning more? I don't know. I'd lean toward yes, but I don't know that for a fact.

So the quirky nature of Buzz's personality doesn't really bother me - it's weird and different, but who cares, as you said. And I don't believe his personality bleeds into his abilities as a coach and somehow is negative regarding his ability to coach a team to success, because he's done it.

But if his personality, in today's game, limits our roster and therefore limits the way we can play and our ceiling, then that's a problem.
Ag13
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AggieCrew44 said:

TMF said:

At the end of the day I don't believe he is worth the money. He underperforms based on compensation of his peers.
Hes pretty much on par with his salary. He's 17th nationally and 7th in SEC pay. That comes out to… a second round exit and top 7 SEC finish

Not arguing we shouldn't expect more, just don't understand this precedent that we pay him like an elite coach


Wow imagine if buzz got paid $5,000 more and was then catapulted into the top 16. Then how would you be able to justify no sweet 16 appearances in 6 years?
AggieCrew44
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Ag13 said:

AggieCrew44 said:

TMF said:

At the end of the day I don't believe he is worth the money. He underperforms based on compensation of his peers.
Hes pretty much on par with his salary. He's 17th nationally and 7th in SEC pay. That comes out to… a second round exit and top 7 SEC finish

Not arguing we shouldn't expect more, just don't understand this precedent that we pay him like an elite coach


Wow imagine if buzz got paid $5,000 more and was then catapulted into the top 16. Then how would you be able to justify no sweet 16 appearances in 6 years?

im not justifying anything. I said as such

It's just this myth that we pay him an elite salary. Because we don't
Proposition Joe
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However it's absolutely true over his tenure that his salary has not matched his results.

It's easy to point out "well the last 3 years it's been on par with results" (even though that's a bit of stretch based on the data I just provided) -- but that completely ignores the 3 years prior.

He's been an underwhelming hire for the $$$. I don't think anyone can argue against that.
85AustinAg
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Texas_Ag11 said:

It's not that black and white. Does he care about his players and staff first, yes. Does he not care about the university that he is coaching for, no. It's not that simple. I do think there is a priority to him. He does not like the dealing with the alumni and all the pomp and access they want. But he is not antagonistic like Turgeon about all of that.

Basketball coaches are a weird bunch, btw...
Agreed.
AggieCrew44
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Proposition Joe said:

However it's absolutely true over his tenure that his salary has not matched his results.

It's easy to point out "well the last 3 years it's been on par with results" (even though that's a bit of stretch based on the data I just provided) -- but that completely ignores the 3 years prior.

He's been an underwhelming hire for the $$$. I don't think anyone can argue against that.
The first three years absolutely yes he didn't match the pay
Divining Rod
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kind of ironic that the guy who built his own career out of nothing by making contact with EVERYONE and staying connected, is niw such a recluse from his own fanbase.
zgolfz85
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AggieCrew44 said:

Ag13 said:

AggieCrew44 said:

TMF said:

At the end of the day I don't believe he is worth the money. He underperforms based on compensation of his peers.
Hes pretty much on par with his salary. He's 17th nationally and 7th in SEC pay. That comes out to… a second round exit and top 7 SEC finish

Not arguing we shouldn't expect more, just don't understand this precedent that we pay him like an elite coach


Wow imagine if buzz got paid $5,000 more and was then catapulted into the top 16. Then how would you be able to justify no sweet 16 appearances in 6 years?

im not justifying anything. I said as such

It's just this myth that we pay him an elite salary. Because we don't
this is misleading though. when he was extended after the 2022-23 season, he was still top 10....and top 10 when he was hired. I think it was actually top 8 at the time.
AggieCrew44
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zgolfz85 said:

AggieCrew44 said:

Ag13 said:

AggieCrew44 said:

TMF said:

At the end of the day I don't believe he is worth the money. He underperforms based on compensation of his peers.
Hes pretty much on par with his salary. He's 17th nationally and 7th in SEC pay. That comes out to… a second round exit and top 7 SEC finish

Not arguing we shouldn't expect more, just don't understand this precedent that we pay him like an elite coach


Wow imagine if buzz got paid $5,000 more and was then catapulted into the top 16. Then how would you be able to justify no sweet 16 appearances in 6 years?

im not justifying anything. I said as such

It's just this myth that we pay him an elite salary. Because we don't
this is misleading though. when he was extended after the 2022-23 season, he was still top 10....and top 10 when he was hired. I think it was actually top 8 at the time.
Its not misleading. I've said the first 3 years he didn't do what he was paid to, albeit he at least showed improvement after the COVID fiasco
bobinator
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I don't know that we have all the data we need to absolutely say for sure because we need to account for the staff salaries.

I don't know what we're paying all of these guys but it's not like we have a who's who of assistant coaches sitting over there. So maybe we're paying Buzz more but the whole staff less than other schools?
Proposition Joe
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bobinator said:

I don't know that we have all the data we need to absolutely say for sure because we need to account for the staff salaries.

I don't know what we're paying all of these guys but it's not like we have a who's who of assistant coaches sitting over there. So maybe we're paying Buzz more but the whole staff less than other schools?

I absolutely assume there's guys on our staff that Buzz met at the Texaco next to Tamolly's in Greenville who told him "You know what they say: It takes a bushel of corn to feed a chicken" and he hired.
Ag13
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AggieCrew44 said:

zgolfz85 said:

AggieCrew44 said:

Ag13 said:

AggieCrew44 said:

TMF said:

At the end of the day I don't believe he is worth the money. He underperforms based on compensation of his peers.
Hes pretty much on par with his salary. He's 17th nationally and 7th in SEC pay. That comes out to… a second round exit and top 7 SEC finish

Not arguing we shouldn't expect more, just don't understand this precedent that we pay him like an elite coach


Wow imagine if buzz got paid $5,000 more and was then catapulted into the top 16. Then how would you be able to justify no sweet 16 appearances in 6 years?

im not justifying anything. I said as such

It's just this myth that we pay him an elite salary. Because we don't
this is misleading though. when he was extended after the 2022-23 season, he was still top 10....and top 10 when he was hired. I think it was actually top 8 at the time.
Its not misleading. I've said the first 3 years he didn't do what he was paid to, albeit he at least showed improvement after the COVID fiasco
You are absolutely misleading. You are trying to make the point that he doesn't get paid an elite salary. But the definition of elite is completely arbitrary. When we pulled him from Virginia Tech it required an extremely high salary that put him above Final Four caliber coaches. Other coaches (like Oates) have found significantly more success and have rightfully passed him up salary wise leading to Buzz no longer being Top 10. This too is arbitrary, as what others pay their coaches should in no way change the expectations that we have/had for Buzz. We expected him to make deep tournament runs.

IMO, being top 17 and getting paid $4.6 million/year is pretty dang elite. 12/16 coaches in front of him have been to the Final Four, many multiple times and a few with championship rings. All of them except Hoiberg (who has his own ridiculous contract vs results) have been to the Sweet 16 at their current school - including 11 that are currently in the Sweet 16.
Proposition Joe
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And both Hoiberg and Dixon went to programs that had to grossly overpay because they literally had been in a wasteland for 20+ years (TCU almost 30).

While not as often as we would have liked, A&M was somewhat of a tourney regular when Buzz arrived (8 times in 14 years. 2 Sweet 16's in the previous 4 years).

Which probably adds to why there's certain fans that haven't really embraced Buzz - it's tough to have a coach that has no problem cashing million dollar checks for 6 years producing performance below his paygrade to question your fandom.
zgolfz85
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Proposition Joe said:

bobinator said:

I don't know that we have all the data we need to absolutely say for sure because we need to account for the staff salaries.

I don't know what we're paying all of these guys but it's not like we have a who's who of assistant coaches sitting over there. So maybe we're paying Buzz more but the whole staff less than other schools?

I absolutely assume there's guys on our staff that Buzz met at the Texaco next to Tamolly's in Greenville who told him "You know what they say: It takes a bushel of corn to feed a chicken" and he hired.
lol....probably accurate
BuzzFan24
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Coming off a historic season, where the Aggies were ranked in the top 25 all year, and all anyone cares about is whether one more game can be won in the tourney with a 4 seed beating a 5 seed. Got to love message boards.
Ag13
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BuzzFan24 said:

Coming off a historic season, where the Aggies were ranked in the top 25 all year, and all anyone cares about is whether one more game can be won in the tourney with a 4 seed beating a 5 seed. Got to love message boards.
Correct. Advancing in the tournament is all that ultimately matters. They don't hang banners for being Top 25 all season or beating #1 Auburn. Those are nice tidbits, but not making it out of the first weekend when we are a favorite to do so really puts a damper on the regular season accomplishments that this team had.
bobinator
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For now. In a few years we'll all remember this season a lot more fondly than it feels right now.
zgolfz85
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BuzzFan24 said:

Coming off a historic season, where the Aggies were ranked in the top 25 all year, and all anyone cares about is whether one more game can be won in the tourney with a 4 seed beating a 5 seed. Got to love message boards.
m
Username checks out
AgEfan
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I'm a Buzz guy, but he's made it clear he doesn't care about the fans. It's only about "team bus 1". I understand wanting to block out distractions from the players, but the coach alienating the fanbase who support the program is a bad move.
zgolfz85
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bobinator said:

For now. In a few years we'll all remember this season a lot more fondly than it feels right now.


Hopefully. I'm really excited/terrified to see what buzz can or can't do with a whole new roster next year. If I had to bet, I think he has us on the bubble next year.
DTP02
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bobinator said:

For now. In a few years we'll all remember this season a lot more fondly than it feels right now.


I hope the fanbase feels that way in the future. That was why the loss was a double-barreled gut shot. We all wanted to win as fans, obviously, but I wanted to win for this group's legacy as well. It's a group that embodies so much of what most Aggie fans profess to love about A&M and Aggie sports, and it's a shame that the group won't be remembered and appreciated like they would have been with just one more win, let alone two.

I also think they weren't appreciated like they should have been while their story was still being written, but that's another matter.

Hopefully history will be kinder than the current sentiment.
 
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