I wish Buzz was more basketball first. Big fan going way back. But there is a lack of growth here. The season was no doubt a success. But something needs to improve.
"Please stay, but if you're going to leave, then hurry"
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Last: 1 yr ago by Method Man
AgEfan said:
I'm a Buzz guy, but he's made it clear he doesn't care about the fans. It's only about "team bus 1". I understand wanting to block out distractions from the players, but the coach alienating the fanbase who support the program is a bad move.
I think people misread this, but I do think it's a valid point that Buzz's program allows it to be misread. He could probably use an outside voice in that regard.
The whole bunker mentality is kind of SOP for coaches in general. And there's definitely a papa bear thing where Buzz is being protective of his players which is even more extreme with him than many coaches.
But a lot of what people perceive about Buzz is really him trying to deal with his own quirky nature. He knows he has some major weaknesses and tries to do what he can to address and control for them. This goes for both stuff on the court (where he delegates specific things to assistants because he doesn't trust himself to make the right decisions under game stress) and off the court, where he doesn't trust himself to not go down rabbit trails and lose focus on productive pursuits.
His incredibly detailed and precise scheduling routine is the perfect example of this. As is the reliance on data. It's an attempt to control and make up for his weaknesses. I think people misread his extreme quirks for something they are not. This why I don't think "pretentious" is a good description at all.
as we've discussed at large here, I think part of that is buzz. for those who follow this team closely (like most who post on this forum and on bball threads in premium), we know that. The average TAMU fan/alum doesn't know the magic of this team and culture as much as they could because of that awkward relationship that largely stems from buzz. As I've said before....if he's not the guy to shake hands and kiss babies, then he should hire someone under him to be that go between and foster that relationship better.DTP02 said:bobinator said:
For now. In a few years we'll all remember this season a lot more fondly than it feels right now.
I hope the fanbase feels that way in the future. That was why the loss was a double-barreled gut shot. We all wanted to win as fans, obviously, but I wanted to win for this group's legacy as well. It's a group that embodies so much of what most Aggie fans profess to love about A&M and Aggie sports, and it's a shame that the group won't be remembered appreciated like they would have been with just one more win.
I also think it wasn't appreciated like it should have been while their story was still being written, but that's another matter.
Hopefully history will be kinder than the current sentiment.
I went to three football games this season (we can argue if those were good ideas or not!) and Buzz was at 2 of them that I could see. He was on the sideline generally at the NW corner of the stadium. His players were at midnight yell a couple of times as well according to my son.
This in no way weighs into the "good coach/bad coach" argument going on here, but it appears he at least makes an effort to get to a game or two (or more?)
This in no way weighs into the "good coach/bad coach" argument going on here, but it appears he at least makes an effort to get to a game or two (or more?)
TMF said:
At the end of the day I don't believe he is worth the money. He underperforms based on compensation of his peers.
Yeah it would be much better to spend less. Not make the tourney. What does what Buzz make matter? This isn't a basketball job coaches are racing to grab. Texas A&M is a massive school in the SEC. You want any relevance?
I don't disagree, but I also don't think for 2 seconds that it limits the pool of players he can get to sign on with him IMMENSELY. Contrast that with a Nate Oats, who can bring in any player and get them to buy in to what he wants and needs them to do. If they're not a high character/gut it out kid already, they'll hit the portal quickly.....and in today's times, there's so few of those. So many of these kids are being told their gods from day 1, come from broken homes, are troublemakers, etc. The most elite coaches can take those kids and develop them into actual humans and society contributors. I think buzz needs society contributors that he can further mold. We've seen it.DTP02 said:AgEfan said:
I'm a Buzz guy, but he's made it clear he doesn't care about the fans. It's only about "team bus 1". I understand wanting to block out distractions from the players, but the coach alienating the fanbase who support the program is a bad move.
I think people misread this, but I do think it's a valid point that Buzz's program allows it to be misread. He could probably use an outside voice in that regard.
The whole bunker mentality is kind of SOP for coaches in general. And there's definitely a papa bear thing where Buzz is being protective of his players which is even more extreme with him than many coaches.
But a lot of what people perceive about Buzz is really him trying to deal with his own quirky nature. He knows he has some major weaknesses and tries to do what he can to address and control for them. This goes for both stuff on the court (where he delegates specific things to assistants because he doesn't trust himself to make the right decisions under game stress) and off the court, where he doesn't trust himself to not go down rabbit trails and lose focus on productive pursuits.
His incredibly detailed and precise scheduling routine is the perfect example of this. As is the reliance on data. It's an attempt to control and make up for his weaknesses. I think people misread his extreme quirks for something they are not. This why I don't think "pretentious" is a good description at all.
LandArchSA said:
I went to three football games this season (we can argue if those were good ideas or not!) and Buzz was at 2 of them that I could see. He was on the sideline generally at the NW corner of the stadium. His players were at midnight yell a couple of times as well according to my son.
This in no way weighs into the "good coach/bad coach" argument going on here, but it appears he at least makes an effort to get to a game or two (or more?)
I'll make this point again: Buzz's players are more visible, involved, obviously appreciative of A&M, and relatable than any other athletes on campus, definitely in the revenue sports. And they're really an anachronistic outlier in that regard in major college sports in general. If people don't think that comes at least in part from Buzz's leadership, I don't know what to say to that. It obviously does.
There are very valid basketball criticisms to make about Buzz. To the point that, as much as I really like Buzz here, there would definitely be a potential silver lining if he left.
But of the not-directly-basketball-related stuff, there is exponentially more good than bad with Buzz. If people have any reaction to that stuff, it should be overwhelmingly positive, even if you can nitpick some things.
But losses equal frustration and anger, and that leads to irrationally lashing out and criticism and personalizing things.
DTP02 said:AgEfan said:
I'm a Buzz guy, but he's made it clear he doesn't care about the fans. It's only about "team bus 1". I understand wanting to block out distractions from the players, but the coach alienating the fanbase who support the program is a bad move.
I think people misread this, but I do think it's a valid point that Buzz's program allows it to be misread. He could probably use an outside voice in that regard.
The whole bunker mentality is kind of SOP for coaches in general. And there's definitely a papa bear thing where Buzz is being protective of his players which is even more extreme with him than many coaches.
But a lot of what people perceive about Buzz is really him trying to deal with his own quirky nature. He knows he has some major weaknesses and tries to do what he can to address and control for them. This goes for both stuff on the court (where he delegates specific things to assistants because he doesn't trust himself to make the right decisions under game stress) and off the court, where he doesn't trust himself to not go down rabbit trails and lose focus on productive pursuits.
His incredibly detailed and precise scheduling routine is the perfect example of this. As is the reliance on data. It's an attempt to control and make up for his weaknesses. I think people misread his extreme quirks for something they are not. This why I don't think "pretentious" is a good description at all.
I think it can be both. It's a dash of pretentiousness, but also a little bit of boastfulness (since pretentiousness often implies that he doesn't actually have the skills/knowledge, and in many cases he does)... But he's not your ordinary boastful person simply because he frames it in self-deprecation. I think the newly coined phrase for it is... "the humblebrag".... "Guys im not that smart, but here's the 50 books I read last week."
His incredibly detailed and precise scheduling routine is a perfect example of him knowing what he needs to function and addressing it. I'm honestly envious of it.
But he needs to tell you about his detailed and precise scheduling routine. Constantly.
It's the same thing with his bunker mentality. He constantly reiterates that he's basically cut off from the outside world. Which again, is fine, but then don't also openly antagonize the fans for not being as supportive as you think they should be.
One reason I started this thread is it struck me the last month and a half or so of the season that the vibe was off in Reed Arena this year. I don't even know how to describe it but if you attended several games this year it was obvious. This team was good, this team played hard, and it had some players that are easy to be fans of, yet for some reason it just didn't have the same juice as some other seasons.
One reason I started this thread is it struck me the last month and a half or so of the season that the vibe was off in Reed Arena this year. I don't even know how to describe it but if you attended several games this year it was obvious. This team was good, this team played hard, and it had some players that are easy to be fans of, yet for some reason it just didn't have the same juice as some other seasons.
I think Buzz will get it done here. He's different but I've never considered his personality, if you will, to be detrimental to program support. Repeatedly getting bounced in the first weekend of the tournament, on the other hand, will. Just as it did with Turgeon. If we have a break through to the S16 or Elite 8 soon, Buzz's eccentricity will no longer be a topic of concern and more likely will be an endearing quality.
I think I really like a lot of his skillsets and attributes and his processes. I've said before I'm honestly jealous of his pursuit of improvement.
But I hate the people who need to constantly tell you these things.
It's like a cross-fitter and a vegetarian mated a produced a basketball coach.
But I hate the people who need to constantly tell you these things.
It's like a cross-fitter and a vegetarian mated a produced a basketball coach.
zgolfz85 said:lol....probably accurateProposition Joe said:bobinator said:
I don't know that we have all the data we need to absolutely say for sure because we need to account for the staff salaries.
I don't know what we're paying all of these guys but it's not like we have a who's who of assistant coaches sitting over there. So maybe we're paying Buzz more but the whole staff less than other schools?
I absolutely assume there's guys on our staff that Buzz met at the Texaco next to Tamolly's in Greenville who told him "You know what they say: It takes a bushel of corn to feed a chicken" and he hired.
Agree. That's why it's so oddly specific
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Proposition Joe said:DTP02 said:AgEfan said:
I'm a Buzz guy, but he's made it clear he doesn't care about the fans. It's only about "team bus 1". I understand wanting to block out distractions from the players, but the coach alienating the fanbase who support the program is a bad move.
I think people misread this, but I do think it's a valid point that Buzz's program allows it to be misread. He could probably use an outside voice in that regard.
The whole bunker mentality is kind of SOP for coaches in general. And there's definitely a papa bear thing where Buzz is being protective of his players which is even more extreme with him than many coaches.
But a lot of what people perceive about Buzz is really him trying to deal with his own quirky nature. He knows he has some major weaknesses and tries to do what he can to address and control for them. This goes for both stuff on the court (where he delegates specific things to assistants because he doesn't trust himself to make the right decisions under game stress) and off the court, where he doesn't trust himself to not go down rabbit trails and lose focus on productive pursuits.
His incredibly detailed and precise scheduling routine is the perfect example of this. As is the reliance on data. It's an attempt to control and make up for his weaknesses. I think people misread his extreme quirks for something they are not. This why I don't think "pretentious" is a good description at all.
I think it can be both. It's a dash of pretentiousness, but also a little bit of boastfulness (since pretentiousness often implies that he doesn't actually have the skills/knowledge, and in many cases he does)... But he's not your ordinary boastful person simply because he frames it in self-deprecation. I think the newly coined phrase for it is... "the humblebrag".... "Guys im not that smart, but here's the 50 books I read last week."
His incredibly detailed and precise scheduling routine is a perfect example of him knowing what he needs to function and addressing it. I'm honestly envious of it.
But he needs to tell you about his detailed and precise scheduling routine. Constantly.
Agreed. I mean, the dude still says words like normalicy…which isn't a word. At least once or twice a presser he says things that are close to big vocabulary words, but just a letter or syllable or two off
What about Buzz Williams makes people think that his previous four trips to the Sweet 16 and Elite 8 are no longer valid? Whats he doing differently? Do ya'll believe that the game has passed a 52 year old by?
JJxvi said:
What about Buzz Williams makes people think that his previous four trips to the Sweet 16 and Elite 8 are no longer valid? Whats he doing differently? Do ya'll believe that the game has passed a 52 year old by?
I don't necessarily agree or disagree, but we said the same about Jimbo….and the stubbornness and unwillingness to adapt offensively ultimately crushed him. I could argue that buzz has become too entrenched in the analytics and on specific metrics like offensive rebounding, but could also counter argue that he did that because it was the hand he was dealt personnel wise and the system had to be adapted to that roster. That's why we're all so curious to see what he rolls out moving forward. I personally hope he doesn't deal himself another hand of grit only can't create their own shot just drive the lane and hope for the best guys again…
I mean I'm a pretty big Buzz defender and I would certainly say he has slightly underperformed here so far.JJxvi said:
What about Buzz Williams makes people think that his previous four trips to the Sweet 16 and Elite 8 are no longer valid? Whats he doing differently? Do ya'll believe that the game has passed a 52 year old by?
One of his strengths is that he is constantly trying to improve but like a golfer tinkering too much he might have wandered too far into the analytical weeds and actually regressed.
Despite our lack of success historically speaking, I firmly believe that A&M basketball can do better than what we've done the past few seasons. But unlike others I would say Buzz hasn't done badly here, I think he's done just slightly better than OK in several important departments.
I think most people would agree that he excelled in team building and investing in the young men that signed up to play for him. In some ways it seems like he embraced that role here much more than being a basketball coach and I guess that's for each individual fan to decide if that's a good or bad thing and if basketball suffered as a result.
I don't think hes been bad. I know we can do better
We are also collectively "getting lost in the weeds" IMO by weighing everything only based on the outcome of one game or event (making the sweet 16 vs not making the sweet 16).
The metrics show this is a team in line with the best teams in A&M history (2007, 2008, 2010, and 2016) with only 2007 being clearly superior.
The metrics show this is a team in line with the best teams in A&M history (2007, 2008, 2010, and 2016) with only 2007 being clearly superior.
JJxvi said:
We are also collectively "getting lost in the weeds" IMO by weighing everything only based on the outcome of one game or event (making the sweet 16 vs not making the sweet 16).
The metrics show this is a team in line with the best teams in A&M history (2007, 2008, 2010, and 2016) with only 2007 being clearly superior.
I think the regular basketball fans all know that you can't judge a season by what happens in the tournament (unless the season significantly impacted your seed line and in this year I don't believe it did).
But you can judge a tenure by what happens in the tourney. Most said that this year if we made the 2nd weekend it would really wash away some of the "meh" of previous years.
But now we haven't made the 2nd weekend.
Guys like Turgeon were viewed as a "1st weekend" type coach. Buzz has now been here 2 years longer than Turgeon.
Like I said elsewhere. He's 52 year's old, he's been to the second weekend 4 times. Why am I suddenly supposed to believe that it is not bad luck, or random noise, but really that Buzz Williams+Texas A&M suddenly equals never winning in the tournament when he's taken two other programs there?
What's kind of funny is if he's able to somehow cobble together a roster and squeak into the tournament next year then all will be good again. I think that's the biggest thing is that this felt like the year we make a run, and we didn't, and so people are frustrated. I get it, I'm frustrated by it too.
bobinator said:
What's kind of funny is if he's able to somehow cobble together a roster and squeak into the tournament next year then all will be good again. I think that's the biggest thing is that this felt like the year we make a run, and we didn't, and so people are frustrated. I get it, I'm frustrated by it too.
Don't worry, nobody will care in September but they will 'care' so much when March comes.
Season's like next year seem to be where Buzz shines the most. No expectations. Completely overhauling the roster. Lots of new faces. Seems to be the type of year that for sure has its ups and downs, but we end up playing above our expectations.bobinator said:
What's kind of funny is if he's able to somehow cobble together a roster and squeak into the tournament next year then all will be good again. I think that's the biggest thing is that this felt like the year we make a run, and we didn't, and so people are frustrated. I get it, I'm frustrated by it too.
accurate...and a lot of that was buzz's own hyping up of this build-up. He continually hammered the journey and the familiarity and the growth this group has made together....only to achieve the same that groups that had much lesser journeys together here achieved.bobinator said:
What's kind of funny is if he's able to somehow cobble together a roster and squeak into the tournament next year then all will be good again. I think that's the biggest thing is that this felt like the year we make a run, and we didn't, and so people are frustrated. I get it, I'm frustrated by it too.
It didn't take buzz hyping it up for me to say this was a sweet 16 expectation roster this season. It was just knowing what we had in real time experience and roster continuity. We could and maybe even should have won against UH last year in Memphis (which was so much more painful in person) and all we lost was boots. We minus boots and plus Wilcher, Phelps and Payne, and give Solo, Wade, Andy, Hank, Hef, Manny and Jace another year together. Given the completely remade rosters we played all season (minus Purdue and maybe 1 or 2 others), I just still can't believe this team didn't get past last weekend. Every time I start to get over it, I think it over again, and then scrutinize buzz's coaching all over again.
It really is remarkable what an earlier tournament exit can do mentally to fanbases in this sport.
agreed...which in of itself is frustrating in a lot of ways. So many coaches would KILL for what buzz had to play with this year, instead of having to completely reinvent the wheel every year.Heineken-Ashi said:Season's like next year seem to be where Buzz shines the most. No expectations. Completely overhauling the roster. Lots of new faces. Seems to be the type of year that for sure has its ups and downs, but we end up playing above our expectations.bobinator said:
What's kind of funny is if he's able to somehow cobble together a roster and squeak into the tournament next year then all will be good again. I think that's the biggest thing is that this felt like the year we make a run, and we didn't, and so people are frustrated. I get it, I'm frustrated by it too.
Most wish he'd be gone, and I have no doubts he needs replaced. But I'm not going to be mad if we give him one more year to prove he can't recruit worth a crap compared to other SEC teams like he proved every year recruiting bad, since it will be a whole new roster anyway and opportunity for Buzz.Mikeyshooter said:
Yeah, I seriously thought we would get more "Buzz considering his future at A&M" type headlines or rumors since Saturday. I also hope he stays and I realize it's not even 48 hrs since we lost. But it would be nice to have some confirmation that Buzz is looking forward to rebuilding this roster.
There's a lot of good stuff in this thread. I am in agreement with a lot of folks that Buzz does himself a bit of a disservice by being so resistant to embrace the fans. By taking us to three straight tournaments he's done something here only one other coach has done, if he'd embrace the fanbase a bit more, I'd bet he'd get a lot more leeway from a lot of our fans. Instead, being so insular and missing the second weekend with his best team thus far leads to a lot of frustration, without the easy fallback for people of "we may have fallen short a bit, but we love the guy and he loves us."
Agreed this is a really good thread. Maybe some of the crazies are moving on for the offseason. Few things to throw in my two cents:
- Buzz being a bunker guy and not expanding. I think this is actually increasing over time, which could be problematic. There might be internal forces causing this that we will never know. Not sure. Or Buzz is just getting more and more tired of this place and wants to move on. Who knows. I'm about his same age and I don't stay in many career spots longer than 5-6 years, so
I would get it. Time will tell and something to definitely watch
- I suspect he stays this year, tried to rebuild the roster and see what he can make happen in a stacked SEC next year. Maybe more coaching slots will open, but so far it does not appear to be a great year for him to pick up and leave. Maybe he retires.
- The team make up. It's a classic poultry problem, but the fact is we needed at least one (preferably two) wings that can knock down shots this year. The Wilcher, Hefner, and to some extent Carter spots were just woefully deficient in hitting buckets. I watched a lot of the tourney games and most teams have at least one knock down shooter. Good ones have 2 and great ones have 3. Maybe none that can really get their own shot, but much more of a knockdown shooter off screens than any of Hefner, Wilcher or Carter. We don't have to have super athletes for wings if they can shoot. It will be fascinating to see if he can use this teams success this year to bring in two wings that fit a system. We obviously need a point guard to be able to run an offense and feed Payne in the post and these wings. If we can pull in a solid 1, 2, and 3, I am confident that having Solo/Payne as small 4's and hopefully a space eating 5 this offense will look dramatically different. Keep what works (intense rebounding mentality with more set pieces).
- Re: the difference in Reed. I certainly felt it. But I think it's a challenge the admin needs to take on, bc I think its getting worse. My sons are at A&M and the common thought is that its hard to get into Reed for games. The diehards know how to do it (wait in line), but the average fan doesn't bother even though they are tempted to go. Getting turned away has taken on this viral nature to it. Need to fix. Reed is stale, sterile (like most A&M buildings). I think if we are dead against building a new arena, we need to augment Reed to put the students down low and on one sideline. Heck its basically a tradition with football and baseball to give the best seats to students. Give the first 'deck' of the TV side to students, strip out the seats and let them stand (like the Clippers wall) and convince them they can and will get in. Convert the second deck into suites and generate more revenue to make up for the quality seats down low if you need to. Do the same to the other side. I know it's a pipe dream bc of our fascination with graduation and Silver Taps in there, but its not good for our three occupants to have the arena be like an operating room.
- Buzz being a bunker guy and not expanding. I think this is actually increasing over time, which could be problematic. There might be internal forces causing this that we will never know. Not sure. Or Buzz is just getting more and more tired of this place and wants to move on. Who knows. I'm about his same age and I don't stay in many career spots longer than 5-6 years, so
I would get it. Time will tell and something to definitely watch
- I suspect he stays this year, tried to rebuild the roster and see what he can make happen in a stacked SEC next year. Maybe more coaching slots will open, but so far it does not appear to be a great year for him to pick up and leave. Maybe he retires.
- The team make up. It's a classic poultry problem, but the fact is we needed at least one (preferably two) wings that can knock down shots this year. The Wilcher, Hefner, and to some extent Carter spots were just woefully deficient in hitting buckets. I watched a lot of the tourney games and most teams have at least one knock down shooter. Good ones have 2 and great ones have 3. Maybe none that can really get their own shot, but much more of a knockdown shooter off screens than any of Hefner, Wilcher or Carter. We don't have to have super athletes for wings if they can shoot. It will be fascinating to see if he can use this teams success this year to bring in two wings that fit a system. We obviously need a point guard to be able to run an offense and feed Payne in the post and these wings. If we can pull in a solid 1, 2, and 3, I am confident that having Solo/Payne as small 4's and hopefully a space eating 5 this offense will look dramatically different. Keep what works (intense rebounding mentality with more set pieces).
- Re: the difference in Reed. I certainly felt it. But I think it's a challenge the admin needs to take on, bc I think its getting worse. My sons are at A&M and the common thought is that its hard to get into Reed for games. The diehards know how to do it (wait in line), but the average fan doesn't bother even though they are tempted to go. Getting turned away has taken on this viral nature to it. Need to fix. Reed is stale, sterile (like most A&M buildings). I think if we are dead against building a new arena, we need to augment Reed to put the students down low and on one sideline. Heck its basically a tradition with football and baseball to give the best seats to students. Give the first 'deck' of the TV side to students, strip out the seats and let them stand (like the Clippers wall) and convince them they can and will get in. Convert the second deck into suites and generate more revenue to make up for the quality seats down low if you need to. Do the same to the other side. I know it's a pipe dream bc of our fascination with graduation and Silver Taps in there, but its not good for our three occupants to have the arena be like an operating room.
As to your last point, we aren't going to move our highest paying and loyal season ticket holders to put students who don't regularly show up on the sidelines. I do agree they would be well served to convert some areas to suites if it is doable. They've sent out surveys before and have looked at it, so I'm guessing there either wasn't enough interest or it was cost prohibitive.
agreed on all frontsTexas_Ag11 said:
Agreed this is a really good thread. Maybe some of the crazies are moving on for the offseason. Few things to throw in my two cents:
- Buzz being a bunker guy and not expanding. I think this is actually increasing over time, which could be problematic. There might be internal forces causing this that we will never know. Not sure. Or Buzz is just getting more and more tired of this place and wants to move on. Who knows. I'm about his same age and I don't stay in many career spots longer than 5-6 years, so
I would get it. Time will tell and something to definitely watch
- I suspect he stays this year, tried to rebuild the roster and see what he can make happen in a stacked SEC next year. Maybe more coaching slots will open, but so far it does not appear to be a great year for him to pick up and leave. Maybe he retires.
- The team make up. It's a classic poultry problem, but the fact is we needed at least one (preferably two) wings that can knock down shots this year. The Wilcher, Hefner, and to some extent Carter spots were just woefully deficient in hitting buckets. I watched a lot of the tourney games and most teams have at least one knock down shooter. Good ones have 2 and great ones have 3. Maybe none that can really get their own shot, but much more of a knockdown shooter off screens than any of Hefner, Wilcher or Carter. We don't have to have super athletes for wings if they can shoot. It will be fascinating to see if he can use this teams success this year to bring in two wings that fit a system. We obviously need a point guard to be able to run an offense and feed Payne in the post and these wings. If we can pull in a solid 1, 2, and 3, I am confident that having Solo/Payne as small 4's and hopefully a space eating 5 this offense will look dramatically different. Keep what works (intense rebounding mentality with more set pieces).
- Re: the difference in Reed. I certainly felt it. But I think it's a challenge the admin needs to take on, bc I think its getting worse. My sons are at A&M and the common thought is that its hard to get into Reed for games. The diehards know how to do it (wait in line), but the average fan doesn't bother even though they are tempted to go. Getting turned away has taken on this viral nature to it. Need to fix. Reed is stale, sterile (like most A&M buildings). I think if we are dead against building a new arena, we need to augment Reed to put the students down low and on one sideline. Heck its basically a tradition with football and baseball to give the best seats to students. Give the first 'deck' of the TV side to students, strip out the seats and let them stand (like the Clippers wall) and convince them they can and will get in. Convert the second deck into suites and generate more revenue to make up for the quality seats down low if you need to. Do the same to the other side. I know it's a pipe dream bc of our fascination with graduation and Silver Taps in there, but its not good for our three occupants to have the arena be like an operating room.
well, you don't just blindly do it and hope they come. You have to create an atmosphere for it like Auburn does. It's compelling for the university and students. The loyal season ticket holders should embrace a much more intimidating venue and they still have the entire other side.Topher17 said:
As to your last point, we aren't going to move our highest paying and loyal season ticket holders to put students who don't regularly show up on the sidelines. I do agree they would be well served to convert some areas to suites if it is doable. They've sent out surveys before and have looked at it, so I'm guessing there either wasn't enough interest or it was cost prohibitive.
Ag13 said:Correct. Advancing in the tournament is all that ultimately matters. They don't hang banners for being Top 25 all season or beating #1 Auburn. Those are nice tidbits, but not making it out of the first weekend when we are a favorite to do so really puts a damper on the regular season accomplishments that this team had.BuzzFan24 said:
Coming off a historic season, where the Aggies were ranked in the top 25 all year, and all anyone cares about is whether one more game can be won in the tourney with a 4 seed beating a 5 seed. Got to love message boards.
Why is "advancing in the tournament all that matters?" According to whom? CBS?
it's the major barometer in the sport. Things are changing in football by the minute, but up until recently, you could have a "good or great" season and not make the national championship game in the BCS era or the 4 team CFP by having a 9-11 win season. That's changing too -- now, if you don't make the 12 team playoff, who even cares? When they inevitably move it to 16, it'll be even more the case. Gone are the days of making a "respectable" bowl game and calling the season a success.JJxvi said:
Why is "advancing in the tournament all that matters?" According to whom? CBS?
It's a weird way to grade a sport with college hoops in a 64 team single elimination format, I think we can agree there...but it is the way teams are graded. Sure, conference season titles matter some, as well as conference tourney titles, but everyone only cares about the dance. The entire year and schedule is built to improve your odds of seeding in the dance. The early season tournaments your team plays in factor into the dance. It's all about the dance. If you want a relevant college basketball team, you simply have to make the dance. If you want to be a respected and relevant basketball team, you better get deeper than the first weekend every so often. It just is what it is. It might seem silly to you, but there's an ocean of difference between a 1st/2nd round exit vs making it to the 2nd weekend.
Wilcher was underdeveloped this year- he can knock down shots. Defense was more his problem- but with more minutes I feel like that could have improved. Carter and Hef were over played. Buz should have recruited at least another wing who can shoot to help eat those minutes. Also, play Manny on the wing and we would have been fine there without relying on Hef or Carter to play 10+ minutes a game- two guys who can't reliably shoot a basketball in an era where a wing has to be able to do that.zgolfz85 said:agreed on all frontsTexas_Ag11 said:
Agreed this is a really good thread. Maybe some of the crazies are moving on for the offseason. Few things to throw in my two cents:
- Buzz being a bunker guy and not expanding. I think this is actually increasing over time, which could be problematic. There might be internal forces causing this that we will never know. Not sure. Or Buzz is just getting more and more tired of this place and wants to move on. Who knows. I'm about his same age and I don't stay in many career spots longer than 5-6 years, so
I would get it. Time will tell and something to definitely watch
- I suspect he stays this year, tried to rebuild the roster and see what he can make happen in a stacked SEC next year. Maybe more coaching slots will open, but so far it does not appear to be a great year for him to pick up and leave. Maybe he retires.
- The team make up. It's a classic poultry problem, but the fact is we needed at least one (preferably two) wings that can knock down shots this year. The Wilcher, Hefner, and to some extent Carter spots were just woefully deficient in hitting buckets. I watched a lot of the tourney games and most teams have at least one knock down shooter. Good ones have 2 and great ones have 3. Maybe none that can really get their own shot, but much more of a knockdown shooter off screens than any of Hefner, Wilcher or Carter. We don't have to have super athletes for wings if they can shoot. It will be fascinating to see if he can use this teams success this year to bring in two wings that fit a system. We obviously need a point guard to be able to run an offense and feed Payne in the post and these wings. If we can pull in a solid 1, 2, and 3, I am confident that having Solo/Payne as small 4's and hopefully a space eating 5 this offense will look dramatically different. Keep what works (intense rebounding mentality with more set pieces).
- Re: the difference in Reed. I certainly felt it. But I think it's a challenge the admin needs to take on, bc I think its getting worse. My sons are at A&M and the common thought is that its hard to get into Reed for games. The diehards know how to do it (wait in line), but the average fan doesn't bother even though they are tempted to go. Getting turned away has taken on this viral nature to it. Need to fix. Reed is stale, sterile (like most A&M buildings). I think if we are dead against building a new arena, we need to augment Reed to put the students down low and on one sideline. Heck its basically a tradition with football and baseball to give the best seats to students. Give the first 'deck' of the TV side to students, strip out the seats and let them stand (like the Clippers wall) and convince them they can and will get in. Convert the second deck into suites and generate more revenue to make up for the quality seats down low if you need to. Do the same to the other side. I know it's a pipe dream bc of our fascination with graduation and Silver Taps in there, but its not good for our three occupants to have the arena be like an operating room.
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