cityagboy said:

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OldCamp said:

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So day cares have still been open and it isn't spreading like crazy but schools can't open?

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Not only have day cares been open without the virus spreading like crazy, but so have grocery stores, airports, public transportation, pharmacies, gas stations, liquor stores, construction sites, hardware stores, police stations, fire houses, thousands of offices of "essential businesses", gun stores, pet supply stores, sporting goods stores, auto parts stores, auto repair shops, bicycle shops, motorcycle shops, car dealerships, waste collection companies, janitorial services, warehouses, distribution facilities, oil and chemical refining facilities, telecomm providers, all manufacturing facilities, all agricultural / food processing facilities, all forms of logistics, etc., etc., etc.

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You are ignorant if you don't think social distancing has significantly slowed down this virus. One way to prove that is flu A/B is dropped off significantly in regards to ICU visits since social distancing started. Those places you mentioned are implementing social distancing too.

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flu drops off time time of year anyways.

Social distancing was the right call, but it might be time to pull off the bandaid.

cityagboy said:

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Ragoo said:

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cityagboy said:

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OldCamp said:

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So day cares have still been open and it isn't spreading like crazy but schools can't open?

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Not only have day cares been open without the virus spreading like crazy, but so have grocery stores, airports, public transportation, pharmacies, gas stations, liquor stores, construction sites, hardware stores, police stations, fire houses, thousands of offices of "essential businesses", gun stores, pet supply stores, sporting goods stores, auto parts stores, auto repair shops, bicycle shops, motorcycle shops, car dealerships, waste collection companies, janitorial services, warehouses, distribution facilities, oil and chemical refining facilities, telecomm providers, all manufacturing facilities, all agricultural / food processing facilities, all forms of logistics, etc., etc., etc.

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You are ignorant if you don't think social distancing has significantly slowed down this virus. One way to prove that is flu A/B is dropped off significantly in regards to ICU visits since social distancing started. Those places you mentioned are implementing social distancing too.

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flu drops off time time of year anyways.

Social distancing was the right call, but it might be time to pull off the bandaid.

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No. Flu doesn't drop off at the rate it did. My wife is the Director of Analytics for the largest hospital system in Central Texas

*** wrong emoji

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but it does drop off

Social distancing is nearing completion of its purpose. The time to get back out in the world is fast approaching.

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You are ignorant if you don't think social distancing has significantly slowed down this virus. ... Those places you mentioned are implementing social distancing too.

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The point is that if all those places can stay open while implementing social distancing and effectively slow the spread....then so can many other places like day cares and schools.

Those places may not be able to open to normal standards, but they can find a way to open while still practicing proper sanitation, hygiene, and social distancing.

Ragoo said:

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cityagboy said:

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Ragoo said:

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cityagboy said:

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OldCamp said:

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Quote:

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So day cares have still been open and it isn't spreading like crazy but schools can't open?

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Not only have day cares been open without the virus spreading like crazy, but so have grocery stores, airports, public transportation, pharmacies, gas stations, liquor stores, construction sites, hardware stores, police stations, fire houses, thousands of offices of "essential businesses", gun stores, pet supply stores, sporting goods stores, auto parts stores, auto repair shops, bicycle shops, motorcycle shops, car dealerships, waste collection companies, janitorial services, warehouses, distribution facilities, oil and chemical refining facilities, telecomm providers, all manufacturing facilities, all agricultural / food processing facilities, all forms of logistics, etc., etc., etc.

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You are ignorant if you don't think social distancing has significantly slowed down this virus. One way to prove that is flu A/B is dropped off significantly in regards to ICU visits since social distancing started. Those places you mentioned are implementing social distancing too.

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flu drops off time time of year anyways.

Social distancing was the right call, but it might be time to pull off the bandaid.

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No. Flu doesn't drop off at the rate it did. My wife is the Director of Analytics for the largest hospital system in Central Texas

*** wrong emoji

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but it does drop off

Social distancing is nearing completion of its purpose. The time to get back out in the world is fast approaching.

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Of course it does drop naturally every year, but it died cold in its tracks this year.

And I agree we need to get back to normal soon. I don't think that time is now, but hopefully soon.

cityagboy said:

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Ragoo said:

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cityagboy said:

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Ragoo said:

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cityagboy said:

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OldCamp said:

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Quote:

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So day cares have still been open and it isn't spreading like crazy but schools can't open?

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Not only have day cares been open without the virus spreading like crazy, but so have grocery stores, airports, public transportation, pharmacies, gas stations, liquor stores, construction sites, hardware stores, police stations, fire houses, thousands of offices of "essential businesses", gun stores, pet supply stores, sporting goods stores, auto parts stores, auto repair shops, bicycle shops, motorcycle shops, car dealerships, waste collection companies, janitorial services, warehouses, distribution facilities, oil and chemical refining facilities, telecomm providers, all manufacturing facilities, all agricultural / food processing facilities, all forms of logistics, etc., etc., etc.

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You are ignorant if you don't think social distancing has significantly slowed down this virus. One way to prove that is flu A/B is dropped off significantly in regards to ICU visits since social distancing started. Those places you mentioned are implementing social distancing too.

---

flu drops off time time of year anyways.

Social distancing was the right call, but it might be time to pull off the bandaid.

---

No. Flu doesn't drop off at the rate it did. My wife is the Director of Analytics for the largest hospital system in Central Texas

*** wrong emoji

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but it does drop off

Social distancing is nearing completion of its purpose. The time to get back out in the world is fast approaching.

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Of course it does drop naturally every year, but it died cold in its tracks this year.

And I agree we need to get back to normal soon. I don't think that time is now, but hopefully soon.

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i think beginning of may we will be a lot closer than we are today. I thing things have changed enough in the world the last 6 weeks to be on the downward trend.

cone said:

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why would America collapse over schools being out for the rest of the calendar year?

if anything it's the sort of trade off required to "get our asses back to work"

you want to promote as much economic activity as possible without propagating the virus freely/widely. large gatherings, church, schools... that's the stuff you open last, the stuff you open after we're as back to work as can be managed in those circumstances without uncontrolled outbreaks. that's the stuff you open after mass produced effective therapies.

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how do people go back to work with kids out of school

cone said:

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we have decent ideas of deaths here so far

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is this TRUE??? I thought hospitals were taking a VERY liberal view of assigning COVID as cause of death,

just today NY added 3700 deaths to their totals from people who dies the past 3-4 weeks that COULD HAVE been covid....even though no positive test and no respiratory issues.

i think they are still trying to get Weinsteins death as a covid death

Texaggie7nine said:

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The mortality rate from COVID for my age group are pretty low. So many like me will have to decide if the risk is acceptable.

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It's not that simple though. You going out driving only puts you at risk. You have to be on the road to be at risk.
While CV puts you and everyone you come into contact with, regardless of whether they went out or wanted to take the risk, at risk.

So, if you are willing to take the risk AND isolate yourself from your family and friends, especially those that are at risk for complications, then it might be similar to driving.

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WAIT WHAT? You going out driving actually puts you and other drivers at risk. Most accidents aren't 1 vehicle accidents.

And Actually - if your choice is go to work or stay sheltered..... why not go to work and then come home and be sheltered and avoid the friends thing..

Zeke Emmanuel just now on CNBC sated he believes schools should be reopened provided parents understand and are aware of the risks because children are generally not effected by this virus. So that's one high level expert that thinks schools could/should reopen, though a politically controversial expert

Going to work isn't the thing being argued over here. In order for the economy to even slightly get back going it will require people to go out more for non work things.

What's the point of going to work if your job requires customers to come to your store for non essential shopping to make money? Are you just going to stand around all day as no one is allowed to come in?

If your job isn't a storefront that is open to the public, and you aren't working now, you will probably be back to work pretty soon.

tysker said:

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Zeke Emmanuel just now on CNBC sated he believes schools should be reopened provided parents understand and are aware of the risks because children are generally not effected by this virus. So that's one high level expert that thinks schools could/should reopen, though a politically controversial expert

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Dr Zeke and expert do not go together.
And he can explain his logic to teachers and staff - when they don't show up, then what?

I'm hoping schools open up no later than fall but anyone that says what they could/should do is just guessing. You'd have to have some sort of risk tolerance as well. Do you shut down the school again for the first kid, teacher that test positive? For how long?

Just open schools voluntarily.
If you are at high risk then keep your kids at home.
Students should bring their own lunch, eat in class, no busses, no sports, etc.
Take everyone's temp when they get to school.
Offer hazard pay to teachers that return to work.
Furlough the "non essential" school staff to make up for higher cost of hazard pay

I for one believe that schools should be shut down for even a single incidence of infection or infestation including: mumps, measles, chicken pox, flu, common cold or lice. It's truly the only way to stay safe. If I've learned anything in the past 20 years in this country (mainly from TV commercials) it is that life should be safe and food must be fun.

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Average age of teachers accroding to a Texas Teacher Organization is 42. About a third are over 60. About 2/3 of subs are retired teachers over 65 and many in 70's.

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Average age of a policeman is 40 yet they all have to be at work. They serve an essential role in our society and so do teachers. For all other essential business right now, the people that still have jobs are expected to work (manufacturing, agriculture, etc).

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Kids may not be high risk, but you have to have teachers for them and subsitutes are hard to get to begin with. I am hoping for the last two weeks of school but not really expecting it.

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I would bet that with the unemployment rate right now substitute teachers may be easier to find.

Yes but the guidelines say they are to stay sheltered till phase three. We are not talking about 40. That is the average. For ever 22 year old fresh out of college their is someone in their 60's . Those people won't be available till phase three.

Just in my department, of about 22 teachers...two of us are over 70. One is 60 and a caregiver for her elderly parents, one is young but caregiver for her elderly mom, two are young but severe asthmatics, another has lupis, and another has another autoimmune issue and one more is a war veteran with a large number of health related issuse. That is almost 1/3 who should not be back out according to the guidelines. We are pretty typical. I am hoping schools open because it is much more stressful to try to explain lessons to students all online.

I think August is way more realistic for getting schools up and running in the urban areas of Texas.

3rd Generation Ag said:

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And as to how will parents go back to work if kids not in school. June and July they seem to manage.

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Speaking only for my family, we pay 4x as much a month for summer camp, day care and activities. (compared to before and after school care during the school year. ) I budget so the rest of the year leaves enough money for that major outlay every summer. If I had to pay that for 12 months a year it would kill my family budget and eventually delete my emergency fund. A lot of people are using their emergency funds to live right now, if they even have one. Other people have grandparents or family watch their kids during the summer, something that's inadvisable during a shutdown where elderly are impacted.

All this assuming that day cares are open - many are not right now. I'm non-essential so I'm working from home, very ineffectively with 2 kids needing full-time care.

There's not an easy answer and I know that many teachers are high risk and things like masks and limited activities are difficult to do in a school setting. But getting schools figured out is probably the highest non-medical priority right now. We need a solution by August that allows kids to go back to school somehow, as safely as possible.

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Right now (not accusing the posters here) it is becoming clear that a large part of society expects the schools to be the provider for the kids for way more than education. Educating them is tough enough. We need parents to parent.

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Yep. Last I checked, having a kid was something that resulted from choices you made. It's not like they are some unexpected disease that pops up. If you can't afford them, don't have them.

queso1 said:

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I for one believe that schools should be shut down for even a single incidence of infection or infestation including: mumps, measles, chicken pox, flu, common cold or lice. It's truly the only way to stay safe. If I've learned anything in the past 20 years in this country (mainly from TV commercials) it is that life should be safe and food must be fun.

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LICE? You want to shut down a whole school for one case of lice? You know that it is no longer recommended that kids with lice be sent home, right?

Texaggie7nine said:

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Right now (not accusing the posters here) it is becoming clear that a large part of society expects the schools to be the provider for the kids for way more than education. Educating them is tough enough. We need parents to parent.

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Yep. Last I checked, having a kid was something that resulted from choices you made. It's not like they are some unexpected disease that pops up. If you can't afford them, don't have them.

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Sometimes things can simply be hard and tough. Admitting that a lot of people are in a tough spot doesn't mean you are *****ing. People DO plan for their kids to be in school at certain times and base their own work schedules around that. If that gets thrown off it's not easy.

You are taking a very simple view on a complex situation.

SoupNazi2001 said:

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Baba Booey said:

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SoupNazi2001 said:

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Carnwellag2 said:

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cone said:

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why would America collapse over schools being out for the rest of the calendar year?

if anything it's the sort of trade off required to "get our asses back to work"

you want to promote as much economic activity as possible without propagating the virus freely/widely. large gatherings, church, schools... that's the stuff you open last, the stuff you open after we're as back to work as can be managed in those circumstances without uncontrolled outbreaks. that's the stuff you open after mass produced effective therapies.

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how do people go back to work with kids out of school

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The same way they figure that out during summer, Christmas and Spring Break?

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Do you really not realize that those three times are the biggest vacation times in the country? Parents are FORCED to vacation at those times because kids are out of school.

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You vacation the whole summer? Congrats, that is about 16 weeks the kids are off school and most people take a week or two of vacation.

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Parents plan for childcare and budget for childcare during those times.

What currently is happening is a surprise. It can be hard financially and logistically. The kicker is the limited places for kids to go right now. Additionally grandparents or neighbors might sometimes be the care givers, but they might currently be quarantined

That's totally different than what I and 3rd was talking about. 3rd was talking about parents who depend on public schools to be babysitters, parents, food providers ect. The ones that line up in their robes in the summer at the bus stop so the school can watch them while they sit at home.

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Yes but the guidelines say they are to stay sheltered till phase three. We are not talking about 40. That is the average. For ever 22 year old fresh out of college their is someone in their 60's . Those people won't be available till phase three.

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Averages apply to police officers as well. For every 22 year old fresh out of the police academy there is someone in their 60's.
Should all those police officers just sit at home until phase 3?

The average age of a doctor in America is 51.
The average age of a truck driver in America is 55.
These folks dont have the luxury of sitting around until "phase 3".

My point is that teachers provide critical roles to our society and they should be at work on the front lines just like many of our other professions.

Parents have been sending kids to school since the 18th century. We have structured our society around this daily routine and we cant function properly until it is restored.

That's fair

You can count the percentage on free lunch at many districts. These are the families that for the most part can't really take care of their children unless the schools step up. And we do. We even feed them in the summer when school is not in session and their siblings too young to go to school.

But that is not school. I don't know what it is, and it is important in society, but it is not school. My daugher taught for years in a school where 98 percent of the children were on free lunch and the other two percent were on reduced pretty much.

These are the ones where having schools open is critical.

Other people can take care of their kids. We have large segments who can't parent or at least have never felt the responsiblity of doing that.

That is why when schools started closing the big issue for many was not "how will the kids learn" but rather "what will the kids eat."

We can catch the kids up pretty easily academically when we get them back in classes.

Academics are not the problem, but that is supposedly what school is for.