Teachers are so worried about themselves, and some parents too. Do all those teachers and parents avoid HEB/Target etc? They should if they are so worried. If they do, do they think that their ability to shop is more important then educating?

Austin Ag said:

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Teachers are so worried about themselves, and some parents too. Do all those teachers and parents avoid HEB/Target etc? They should if they are so worried. If they do, do they think that their ability to shop is more important then educating?

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This is a silly argument. Shopping is not even close to being in a small room with 20 people for hours.

Teachers have to be treated differently than cube dwellers or waiters for that reason. The lack of plans to do such a thing is what is causing this to stall out.

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This is a silly argument. Shopping is not even close to being in a small room with 20 people for hours.

Teachers have to be treated differently than cube dwellers or waiters for that reason. The lack of plans to do such a thing is what is causing this to stall out.

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Your argument isn't any better.
There are hundreds of thousands of construction workers and manufacturing employees that are having to do their jobs right now in cramped, poorly ventilated, environments despite the risk.

They are essential just as teachers and schools are essential.

Teachers are now one of the few essential professions that continue to be "exempt" from risk yet they also get to keep their job security.

This job security is bought for them by tax payers, many of whom are now facing increased expenses (in addition to already rising property taxes) in order to educate their kids away from school.

If teachers and staff social distance from each other and stay in the classroom the bulk of the time, this is a complete non-issue.

These kids NEED to be in school. My 7 and 10 year-olds are already changing, and not for the better, because of the lack of social interaction and structure in their lives. As much as my wife tries to maintain some structure, it is just not even close to the same. And I am livid that these idiots in charge are not looking at facts and are instead letting fear and CYA Bureaucracy rule the day. Pissed.

On this week's episode of Covid and the Classroom

Teacher: Now, Billy.You know the district policy on using cell phones in class. Please give me your phone.

Billy: (pulls mask down; coughs on phone) Here you go, Miss.

***********************************

Teacher: Jade, please put your mask on.

Jade: No, Miss. My mom says mask mandates are more examples of governmental intrusion into our lives. They don't help anyway.


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Administrative Assistant: (enters classroom) Mr. Jones, we have five teachers out for the next 14 days to self-isolate due to the sniffles. We have no subs willing to come in. We need you to cover Ms. Smith's 5th period class during your conference until she can return.

Mr. Jones: Okay. (returns to evaluating essays).

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Discuss.

Teacher: Now, Billy.You know the district policy on using cell phones in class. Please give me your phone.

Billy: (pulls mask down; coughs on phone) Here you go, Miss.

Teacher: Here is the trash can located behind my Plexiglas screen. Deposit your phone here.

***********************************

Teacher: Jade, please put your mask on.

Jade: No, Miss. My mom says mask mandates are more examples of governmental intrusion into our lives. They don't help anyway.

Teacher: Picks up phone, calls VP, and escorts kid out of the school to her waiting mom. They leave with a school-issued laptop for online learning.

********************************

Administrative Assistant: (enters classroom) Mr. Jones, we have five teachers out for the next 14 days to self-isolate due to the sniffles. We have no subs willing to come in. We need you to cover Ms. Smith's 5th period class during your conference until she can return.

Mr. Jones: Okay. (returns to evaluating essays).

Need to hire a district-wide team of teachers that are all on rotation to fill in.

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Austin Ag said:

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Teacher: Now, Billy.You know the district policy on using cell phones in class. Please give me your phone.

Billy: (pulls mask down; coughs on phone) Here you go, Miss.

Teacher: Here is the trash can located behind my Plexiglas screen. Deposit your phone here.

***********************************

Teacher: Jade, please put your mask on.

Jade: No, Miss. My mom says mask mandates are more examples of governmental intrusion into our lives. They don't help anyway.

Teacher: Picks up phone, calls VP, and escorts kid out of the school to her waiting mom. They leave with a school-issued laptop for online learning.

********************************

Administrative Assistant: (enters classroom) Mr. Jones, we have five teachers out for the next 14 days to self-isolate due to the sniffles. We have no subs willing to come in. We need you to cover Ms. Smith's 5th period class during your conference until she can return.

Mr. Jones: Okay. (returns to evaluating essays).

Need to hire a district-wide team of teachers that are all on rotation to fill in.

********************************

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1. I don't have enough money to reimburse parents for disposed cell phones. Although that would be certainly therapeutic.

2. I hope administration will provide this high level of support consistently!

3. That is an outstanding idea!.

tysker said:

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How are these scenarios different than any other day?

Now do online learning...

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Substantially different. Nothing I can't handle mind you, but still let's not pretend that the mitigation measures are not going to be a nightmare.

Sorry, for the TL: DR post.

As the debate rages about if and when schools should reopen, lines have been drawn based on one's ideology and one's opinion on the severity of the virus and the need to open fully or mitigate the threat. In my opinion, we are attempting to convince teachers to return to classes using logic and data. This is not the appropriate approach. Situating the argument to appeal to our wisdom, our sense of duty, and our love for our kids would be much more effective.

Although I can't speak for all teachers, from my experience, teachers can smell BS from miles away. This keen awareness has developed from attending often mind-numbing professional development sessions addressing faddish pedagogical methods that have very little practical application. First, it is not very persuasive to claim there is little risk in returning to campus and demand that teachers get their asses back to work. Peppering us with data about how children are not severely affected by the virus, how children most likely are not spreaders, and how children have very little chance of dying from the virus only emboldens teachers' opinions.

It may be infuriating to many that the data regarding children and the virus is not informing decision making, but logic is not enough to change hearts and minds. Data alone is sterile and unfeeling. We see the data, yet some gaslight us about the surge in cases, hospitalizations, and fatalities. We see our neighbors and others not taking responsibility for their actions and circumventing mandates. Instead of telling us there is no risk in returning, acknowledge the risks that we will take. Acknowledge the challenges that we will face to protect ourselves, our families, and our students with a multitude of mitigation measures to (for right or wrong) reduce the spread. If NFL players (some of healthiest people on the planet) are concerned about their safety and implore the league to have a comprehensive plan to keep them safe, shouldn't teachers and staff have the same level of support?

Believe it or not, the fear is legitimate. Want to see fear? Fear is a 6th grader walking into a middle school for the first time. Now, these new middle schoolers are going to be introduced to their 7 teachers, who are all in masks and maintaining 6 feet of social distance. Fear is the new teacher charged with her first classroom. Now, introduce mitigation measures that she has to navigate in addition to her concern about being infected at the same time providing effective instruction and appropriate classroom management.

Every leader and parent should stand behind teachers. They should acknowledge the risks and challenges we will face. Yes, we all need to consider teachers as essential workers, but appeal to our sense of duty and why we became teachers in the first place. Unite with us by appealing to our innate desire to be of service to our students and our community. Ethos and pathos are much more persuasive than facts and statistics and telling teachers who are afraid that they should simply quit.

Nevertheless, I'm ready to get after it. I've got my Aggie masks and hand sanitizer. Bring those kids back!

rojo_ag said:

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Sorry, for the TL: DR post.

As the debate rages about if and when schools should reopen, lines have been drawn based on one's ideology and one's opinion on the severity of the virus and the need to open fully or mitigate the threat. In my opinion, we are attempting to convince teachers to return to classes using logic and data. This is not the appropriate approach. Situating the argument to appeal to our wisdom, our sense of duty, and our love for our kids would be much more effective.

Although I can't speak for all teachers, from my experience, teachers can smell BS from miles away. This keen awareness has developed from attending often mind-numbing professional development sessions addressing faddish pedagogical methods that have very little practical application. First, it is not very persuasive to claim there is little risk in returning to campus and demand that teachers get their asses back to work. Peppering us with data about how children are not severely affected by the virus, how children most likely are not spreaders, and how children have very little chance of dying from the virus only emboldens teachers' opinions.

It may be infuriating to many that the data regarding children and the virus is not informing decision making, but logic is not enough to change hearts and minds. Data alone is sterile and unfeeling. We see the data, yet some gaslight us about the surge in cases, hospitalizations, and fatalities. We see our neighbors and others not taking responsibility for their actions and circumventing mandates. Instead of telling us there is no risk in returning, acknowledge the risks that we will take. Acknowledge the challenges that we will face to protect ourselves, our families, and our students with a multitude of mitigation measures to (for right or wrong) reduce the spread. If NFL players (some of healthiest people on the planet) are concerned about their safety and implore the league to have a comprehensive plan to keep them safe, shouldn't teachers and staff have the same level of support?

Believe it or not, the fear is legitimate. Want to see fear? Fear is a 6th grader walking into a middle school for the first time. Now, these new middle schoolers are going to be introduced to their 7 teachers, who are all in masks and maintaining 6 feet of social distance. Fear is the new teacher charged with her first classroom. Now, introduce mitigation measures that she has to navigate in addition to her concern about being infected at the same time providing effective instruction and appropriate classroom management.

Every leader and parent should stand behind teachers. They should acknowledge the risks and challenges we will face. Yes, we all need to consider teachers as essential workers, but appeal to our sense of duty and why we became teachers in the first place. Unite with us by appealing to our innate desire to be of service to our students and our community. Ethos and pathos are much more persuasive than facts and statistics and telling teachers who are afraid that they should simply quit.

Nevertheless, I'm ready to get after it. I've got my Aggie masks and hand sanitizer. Bring those kids back!

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If logic and data are not persuasive then you are speaking to an idiot. Basing your decision making on feelings is what animals do.

htxag09 said:

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And you don't think private sector businesses have 1 person doing the work of multiple?

Also, if we're going virtual why not actually take advantage of the benefits. Online assignments mean easier grading. Platforms with built in lesson plans and guidelines.

They pointed out that these teachers simply want to work from home just like the private sector is doing. Do you want the other things that come along with that?

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no but put this into perspective. If you condense 3 teachers into one job, now you have one teacher trying to manage the learning of 500 students and grading something around 1500 assignments a week. Do you really think that is feasible? Do you really think that's a good solution for a student?

Just because an assignment is online doesn't mean I don't have to read, respond, and grade it. I mean even before covid about 80% of my assignments were digital. Just about every lesson plan that is going to be rolled out is created by a teacher. This isn't a sit a kid down to watch a youtube video situation. The majority of learning platforms being used don't provide actual content.

tysker said:

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nai06 said:

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htxag09 said:

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BBRex said:

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You're free to try. I'm guessing you aren't working from home? Because that's what teachers are asking to do. I'm sure other businesses are finding aspects of wfh inconvenient, too.

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I really don't think teachers want to start the comparison to the private sector. Sure, some are working from home without much disruption. But what about the vast majority of industries and businesses that have had layoffs, furloughs, across the board salary reductions? Are teachers ready for that? I mean why have 3 history teachers doing 5th grade online lessons when you only need 1?

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you still need people to reflect on, field questions, and grade assignments. I have 180 students. Thats a ton of grading for one assignment. Just on my own I read and grade at least 500 assignments a week.

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I dont think you appreciate the quality of automation and how much artificial intelligence can accomplish. Grading worksheets is easy and I'd assume that programming needed to analyze the main topics and ideas of a five paragraph essays isn't all that difficult either. Grammar, punctuation and sentence structures are established and analysis would be like predictive text but in reverse.

Even if grading is a complex process, it only has to to programmed once and then it can be utilized millions of times with little effort.

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if its a multiple choice question, sure thats easy to grade. But thats not an effective method of using online learning. All you do is teach students to google the right answer. My assignments require applying knowledge and concepts to their own life or novel situations. No student will end up with the exact same answer provided they aren't cheating.

I'm sure AI technology could solve a lot of problems, but that tech hasn't made its way into education in that manner.

htxag09 said:

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And I think everyone can agree that the end of last years online learning was a joke. So why would we go about it the same way?

I'm not saying it's pull up a YouTube video and push play. What I'm saying is there are actually legitimate resources out there for virtual learning. Resources that make it easier for the teacher and more productive for the student at the same time.

It's infuriating seeing the vocal minority on social media pushing how they "aren't society's babysitters and aren't going to risk their lives to get the economy back working." All the while they're fully expecting to get their same paycheck and posting pictures out at restaurants or at large family gatherings.

It's infuriating seeing absolutely incorrect fatality rates going viral among these groups showing that tens of thousands of kids WILL die if we go back to school and that shouldn't be ok.

Meanwhile I've been laid off, my wife has taken a reduction of pay yet is working longer hours. And guess what, the hisd taxes we are paying haven't gone down, in fact they're going up.

Choices have repercussions. You can't pick out the things you like about the private sector and ignore the other not so great things that also result.

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I agree It was a joke, but the resources out there still require a lot of work for a teacher. Its not as simplified as you seem to suggest. The idea that grading or teaching online is much easier is a myth. Its only easier if you pursue a model like what was in the spring. If you want real and rigorous online learning, its a lot of work.

I am going to teach whichever way my district mandates. If I am in person, I will still be teaching online classes as well. If we are online only, I still am going to be working my ass off to provide the best learning experience possible. The ideal situation would be a covid free in person education, but thats not possible.

I am sorry you were laid off and your wife had a reduction in hours. And yes it is frustrating to see people against in person classes going out to restaurants. I personally haven't been in a restaurant since the first week of March.

Maybe it was just my classes but I would not say that the instruction in my class was a joke at the end of the year. I worked my butt off and continued to make new content pieces (videos for each topic, online worksheets) going along with the curriculum and I'd say that by the end of the year I was only about 3-4 weeks behind where I normally would be (I teach high school if that makes a difference).

That tells me that what I was doing for my classes was working and based on the positive feedback I received when teaching summer school in a similar format, I feel pretty confident about that.

With that being said, I can't speak for all teachers. Many teachers (and admin at all levels) were in survival mode after we shut down and were just trying to come on with some type of assignment to keep kids busy. With a summer of planning and better training on using technology tools, I would anticipate virtual instruction this year to look a lot (hopefully) improved.

However, virtual instruction is (in my opinion) less effective than in-person instruction. Some people can learn things easily from watching a video or completing an online activity, and some people (including myself) just need to be taught something directly. I remember that when I was in high school I tried to teach myself Calculus by what I could find online (online textbooks, Khan Academy, etc.) and I just couldn't do it (I have my degree in Physics so I am not just bad at math). When I finally took those classes in person at A&M, something about having an in-person instructor just helped everything come together for me. Some of my fellow teachers have experienced fear being replaced by automation but my fear of that is actually at an all-time low after seeing how difficult it is for so many of my students to learn effectively in an online setting.

tysker said:

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rojo_ag said:

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What universe have you been living on the past 6 months? When has any of this been logical?

In addition, teachers are oftentimes not convinced by logic especially when there are so many contradictions. In fact I would argue teachers are not usually guided by logic. Choosing to be a teacher is not at all driven by logic. It is tremendously illogical.

How is the logical argument going right now to persuade teachers and districts to reopen schools?

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above you wrote

Quote:

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In my opinion, we are attempting to convince teachers to return to classes using logic and data. This is not the appropriate approach. Situating the argument to appeal to our wisdom, our sense of duty, and our love for our kids would be much more effective.

...teachers can smell BS from miles away. This keen awareness has developed from attending often mind-numbing professional development sessions addressing faddish pedagogical methods that have very little practical application.

Data alone is sterile and unfeeling.

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Seems like the teaching profession has lost its sense of science and reason. It's too bad really as I know lots of people that would entertain the thought of being a a school teacher (myself included, I guess I may get a chance with my kids this year) but dont want to teach in a world where science, data and persuasive logic are secondary to emotions and educational fads.

Socratic method stills works, Montessori method still works, Singapore math still works.

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I agree wholeheartedly with the effectiveness of the Socratic method!

I'm not expressing my point very well. Although you believe that logic should always be our main guide, that is not necessarily the case in education and dealing with humans. Logic alone cannot be the only motivator of actions. Every decision is rooted in emotion regardless of how you feel about it. . .because that is the human condition.

This isn't really the point though. The logical argument is not working to convince teachers it is safe to just go back to school. Data from both sides has been manipulated to perpetuate biased narratives. In my opinion, we need to take a different tactic. Think about it. How logical is it for someone to choose to live a life of servitude usually with little pay, dedicate their lives to grow other people's children, jump through maddening hoops daily, and be told by Internet bullies to "Just get your ass back to work." This decision is not remotely logical. It is a decision based on heart and passion. We need to engage a teacher's heart. F logic.

Let me be personal. When I first started teaching, I made $19,500. I also coached, so I was working 60+ hours a week. That was in 1995. I graduated with honors from A&M! My friends were making 4X to 5X that. Logically, what the hell was I thinking? I wasn't. Someone should have bashed my head in with a bat, but it probably would not have mattered. I was called to be a teacher because I have unyielding desire to advocate for young people. I was raised in a chaotic and abusive home. If I can use my experience and knowledge to help children, I know my life experience had some meaning. This thinking may be alien to you. That's okay. We all operate at different frequencies. I hold three degrees and have 23 years of experience. I bet you make 2 to 3 times more than I do. That's not logical.