Seems weird to finally get rid of Henry so close to the endgame.

Count Counterpoint said:

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Seems weird to finally get rid of Henry so close to the endgame.

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I agree, but I think Bunbury's theory on the last page makes sense. They made a big deal in this episode about how far away the boarding school is. Imagine if the Jennings get compromised and have to leave immediately and the tension it would create if Henry is several states away with no way to reach him quickly. Anyone the Russians send to go get him would be a complete stranger to Henry, plus he has no idea they're even spies. Would they just leave him in the dark a la Martha's parents, or even tell him that his whole family was killed in a car wreck ? Would be crazy to watch.

The social connections Henry would make at that school sound like a dream for the KGB if they can turn Henry.

The writers on this show are too good to just punt Henry off the show by sending him out of state for school. Same goes for the complaints about Henry going from a kid obsessed with video games to "suddenly" being an academic rock star. It's not bad writing at all. It simply shows how disconnected Phillip and Elizabeth were from their own kid.

No, this will all be meaningful and tie back in at some point.

Great episode. 10/10. Would watch again.

- I loved that Henry is so disconnected from his family. Unlike Paige, he's got no socialist sympathies what-so-ever. He's ambitious and performance driven. I loved when he said "capitalize" on the boarding school opportunity. That had to kill Elizabeth.

- I loved that the boarding school is in New Hampshire. I'm sure it means nothing, but I enjoyed the parallel to Walter White's downfall and flee to NH.

- I loved that we got an update on Martha and she's basically just eating a potato for dinner. Womp womp.

- Lastly, I think we can safely conclude Tuan wasn't up to anything and that's the last we've heard of that.

Also tying in that Stan doesn't know where his son is applying for colleges.

TriAg2010 said:

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Great episode. 10/10. Would watch again.

- I loved that Henry is so disconnected from his family. Unlike Paige, he's got no socialist sympathies what-so-ever. He's ambitious and performance driven. I loved when he said "capitalize" on the boarding school opportunity. That had to kill Elizabeth.

- I loved that the boarding school is in New Hampshire. I'm sure it means nothing, but I enjoyed the parallel to Walter White's downfall and flee to NH.

- I loved that we got an update on Martha and she's basically just eating a potato for dinner. Womp womp.

- Lastly, I think we can safely conclude Tuan wasn't up to anything and that's the last we've heard of that.

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Yeah, that totally sucked.

kayakag said:

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TriAg2010 said:

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Great episode. 10/10. Would watch again.

- I loved that Henry is so disconnected from his family. Unlike Paige, he's got no socialist sympathies what-so-ever. He's ambitious and performance driven. I loved when he said "capitalize" on the boarding school opportunity. That had to kill Elizabeth.

- I loved that the boarding school is in New Hampshire. I'm sure it means nothing, but I enjoyed the parallel to Walter White's downfall and flee to NH.

- I loved that we got an update on Martha and she's basically just eating a potato for dinner. Womp womp.

- Lastly, I think we can safely conclude Tuan wasn't up to anything and that's the last we've heard of that.

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Yeah, that totally sucked.

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hey she grilled up some onions to give it flavor...and the potato had no visible maggots.

in russia that was a solid middle class meal.

TriAg2010 said:

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- I loved that the boarding school is in New Hampshire. I'm sure it means nothing, but I enjoyed the parallel to Walter White's downfall and flee to NH.
.

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Like I said earlier, don't sell these writers short. I doubt much of anything in this show "means nothing". Have you forgotten New Hampshire's state motto?

Toni Reauxmeaux said:

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The social connections Henry would make at that school sound like a dream for the KGB if they can turn Henry.

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i thought the same thing. if the centre finds out about this (and they will, because elizabeth and her hardcore commie self will tell them), they're gonna force them to greenlight it. and realizing the commies are expecting/hoping/pushing for paige and henry both to follow in their parents footsteps may very well be the flashpoint for phillip. the realization that the bio-weapon they took and gave to mother russia was actually used on mujis in afghan is another in the pile of reasons phillip is losing/has lost faith in the ussr.

if/when he breaks, i dont see him actually jumping sides or actually trying to help the americans, its more likely he'd just try and find a way out of this life to become a civilian, but since that is almost impossible i expect his goal will be to merely extricate his kids from it

I think she only agreed to marry him to keep him happy. The previews for next week look AWESOME!!!!

And how pissed did Phillip and enlizabeth look reading Pastor Tims diary! Yowsa. He gone.

that whole diary scene...so do we think Paige is full team Commie now or did it not look like she had this "see, you guys are nuts" look towards her parents as they were reading it? either way, loved the finish.

Pahdz said:

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that whole diary scene...so do we think Paige is full team Commie now or did it not look like she had this "see, you guys are nuts" look towards her parents as they were reading it? either way, loved the finish.

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Some of both...but ultimately she's "team family".
But that scene was more about Philip and Elizabeth than Paige.

Will this make Phillip and Elizabeth kill Pastor Tim? Or will it open their eyes to see the error of their ways?

All the speculation and crazy theories about Pastor Tim on this forum and the writers went with a very simple and brilliant solution to him. Have him be concerned about a little girl in a terrible situation. Have Paige misread that concern as pity. She loses trust in him and she's the one that turns on Pastor Tim.

chiken said:

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I think she only agreed to marry him to keep him happy. The previews for next week look AWESOME!!!!

And how pissed did Phillip and enlizabeth look reading Pastor Tims diary! Yowsa. He gone.

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I didn't see any of it that way.

I thought the marriage was legit and meaningful, with the possibility of being transformative for both.

Similarly, I thought the parents' reaction to the diary was more of shock and horror at seeing a glimpse of the truth of their lives and their parenting thru others' eyes. There may be some pushback and denial as a defense mechanism after they get over the initial shock, but this was a whole lot more significant than just being something that makes them mad and want to kill Pastor Tim.

To me this episode was about becoming a "real husband and wife," coupled with being confronted with the reality of the impact of their decisions on their daughter. It opens the possibility of them becoming "real parents" as well, although I expect that will
play out over a much longer period, possibly as the endgame.

The reason this is my impression is because of Elizabeth's face several times before/during the ceremony. He asks "Do you want to make it official" and all she does is nod. No smile, just a nod. And during the ceremony she doesn't look happy, just saying the words. I feel like she does have feelings for Phillip, but in the end, it's still just a job for her. If she had to kill him, I really think she would! It's country first to her, IMO.

And the same thing about the parents expressions during the reading of the diary that made me think they were pissed. They didn't look to believe anything that was being written - more upset that those thoughts had been planted in their daughters mind at all. It was just another American thinking their way is better than the Russian way.

CorpsAg11 said:

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I think it's too late now but it'd be funny if Henry's fondness of Stan led him to pursue a career in the FBI..

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Yay

Well that's really interesting to read! I'm surprised, and not at all bothered, to see it viewed differently.

On another note, I really loved hearing both of them speaking Russian. I think that's why I loved the preview so much for next week. "We are them"

There's definitely a religious aspect going on. Do they find God by realizing that the most important thing in their lives is their children and the freedom to pursue their dreams?

And I also thought that Elizabeth went through the ceremony initially for Phillip, but ended up appreciating their union. This was evident when they placed their rings in the safe and embraced at the end of the scene.

If anything, I think you'll see her start to turn as she realizes the impact Communism will have on her family. I really don't think she would kill Phillip now that her trust in the almighty Russian State is compromised with the bio-weapon used and their govt not using the wheat to feed the country. They're beginning to understand the Big Lie they've been fed their entire lives.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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chiken said:

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The reason this is my impression is because of Elizabeth's face several times before/during the ceremony. He asks "Do you want to make it official" and all she does is nod. No smile, just a nod. And during the ceremony she doesn't look happy, just saying the words. I feel like she does have feelings for Phillip, but in the end, it's still just a job for her. If she had to kill him, I really think she would! It's country first to her, IMO.

And the same thing about the parents expressions during the reading of the diary that made me think they were pissed. They didn't look to believe anything that was being written - more upset that those thoughts had been planted in their daughters mind at all. It was just another American thinking their way is better than the Russian way.

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I saw it completely different. Elizabeth is never overly emotional. I thought it was very genuine and she was actually touched and liked it. Her demeanor was exactly what I would expect. If she didn't want to do it she would have said so or given a much more noticeable response -she has a hard time hiding actual anger or distaste for someone.and she has always been pretty genuine with Phillip.

The parents expression during the reading was pretty confirming to me, not necessarily pissed but resolute in what they must do. I have the feeling he will get the job and relocate and then have a horrible accident befall him and the wife (the diary might disappear too).

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This is how I interpreted her reaction as well.

kayakag said:

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There's definitely a religious aspect going on. Do they find God by realizing that the most important thing in their lives is their children and the freedom to pursue their dreams?

And I also thought that Elizabeth went through the ceremony initially for Phillip, but ended up appreciating their union. This was evident when they placed their rings in the safe and embraced at the end of the scene.

If anything, I think you'll see her start to turn as she realizes the impact Communism will have on her family. I really don't think she would kill Phillip now that her trust in the almighty Russian State is compromised with the bio-weapon used and their govt not using the wheat to feed the country. They're beginning to understand the Big Lie they've been fed their entire lives.

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i agree with all of that for phillip, but not elizabeth. i dont see her ever turning against commie russia. phillip knows theyre fos and they used the bio weapon and lied about the good wheat they sent home having been wheat the americans stole from russia to start with. but for phillip it wont be "God", but it may be part of the EST type higher power line of thinking..

and i dont think either want their kids to pursue their dreams in the american sense, phillip just doesnt want to see paige dragged into his line of work.

not sure where paige is gonnna end up, but i bet henry ends up someplace where the kgb would really find him useful so the breaking point may be over henry instead of paige.

given that last scene, what are the chances the pastor gets lured away by the job like they told paige and then kgb kills him?

chiken said:

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On another note, I really loved hearing both of them speaking Russian. I think that's why I loved the preview so much for next week. "We are them"

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I was trying to remember but I think thats the first time Philip and Elizabeth have spoken Russian...

I rewatched the 1st season of The Americans recently and I was amazed at how much suspense there was during each episode. They don't really have that same level of suspense over the past 2 seasons in my opinion, where you feel like at any given moment they are one split second away from getting caught.

Breaking Bad was the best at maintaining that suspense for the entire life of the show which is what made it so great.

CorpsAg11 said:

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I rewatched the 1st season of The Americans recently and I was amazed at how much suspense there was during each episode. They don't really have that same level of suspense over the past 2 seasons in my opinion, where you feel like at any given moment they are one split second away from getting caught.

Breaking Bad was the best at maintaining that suspense for the entire life of the show which is what made it so great.

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Great observation! I think the characters and story have evolved enough that viewers don't need that kind of suspense to keep watching. Now we just want to see how things play out!

CorpsAg11 said:

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chiken said:

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On another note, I really loved hearing both of them speaking Russian. I think that's why I loved the preview so much for next week. "We are them"

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I was trying to remember but I think thats the first time Philip and Elizabeth have spoken Russian...

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No they've spoken Russian at least in flashbacks of their early years training and recruitment etc. I'm pretty sure. Not sure about present time.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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CorpsAg11 said:

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chiken said:

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On another note, I really loved hearing both of them speaking Russian. I think that's why I loved the preview so much for next week. "We are them"

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I was trying to remember but I think thats the first time Philip and Elizabeth have spoken Russian...

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No they've spoken Russian at least in flashbacks of their early years training and recruitment etc. I'm pretty sure. Not sure about present time.

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Didn't they speak Russian around Paige when they outed themselves or did they just say their Russian names?

I wonder if this show is popular in Russia. It has a significant amount of Russian scenes and doesn't portray the Soviets as comically evil.

That ending scene with the diary would be soul crushing as a parent to learn that someone thought you messed up your child more than a physical or sexual abuser did despite you thinking you were doing the right thing the whole time. I really liked that they went the route of the Pastor simply being a genuinely good person who is worried about a kid personally, but trying to stay respectful of the entire situation.

I also really like Oleg Borev, he's become one of the most compelling characters on the show. He seems to truly care for his country and wants to make it a better place and he has moral lines that he will not cross. I also like how he and Stan built up a significant amount of mutual respect and that neither is willing to tear down the other. I wonder how often that happened in real life.

The characters make this show great. It's one of the few shows that has managed to keep the kids from becoming annoying and actually have them be a significant part of the show.

You could argue that the FBI mail robot is a more important character than Henry at this point. Hopefully he starts figuring into the plot more and more (my guess is yes).

And the arc of the show is very realistic. It could be that they get lulled into a false sense of security and have everything fall down against them on all sides in a quick and violent end to the series.

Simply an amazing episode. Oleg's dinner, the marriage, Paige and Tim, the diary. Amazing.

I think there will be some plot lines that will be left unresolved, in many ways similar to The Sopranos (speaking of Russians!).

My thought on Henry is that he is the closest to Marie in Breaking Bad. Marie was sort of a joke of a character for many seasons and always portrayed as being self-centered and superficial. But, it was ultimately Marie who most clearly saw Walter for the monster he was.

I expect that Henry will learn everything about his parents, he will be disgusted, and he will turn on them. Paige will defend them think that some good does come from their work. Paige took those pictures to manipulate her parents into disposing of Pastor Tim. She's on the dark side now.

TriAg2010 said:

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My thought on Henry is that he is the closest to Marie in Breaking Bad. Marie was sort of a joke of a character for many seasons and always portrayed as being self-centered and superficial. But, it was ultimately Marie who most clearly saw Walter for the monster he was.

I expect that Henry will learn everything about his parents, he will be disgusted, and he will turn on them. Paige will defend them think that some good does come from their work. Paige took those pictures to manipulate her parents into disposing of Pastor Tim. She's on the dark side now.

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This might have already been mentioned, but I think the Russians are going to find out some high-ranking U.S. official's child is also at the boarding school and P&E will have to use Henry to get close with them....or better yet, Paige has to go to the school also to be the spy...

Then, either Henry figures it out and gets pissed off/threatens to expose them....or he gets hurt/killed because of them. Maybe if Paige is the spy, she gets caught or killed... Henry/Paige getting hurt/killed could drive them either away from Russia or snap Phillip back in line if they blame the U.S. for it.