Show is really going at a breakneck pace right now, at least by its own standards.

For one of the few times with this show, I have a significant complaint about the writing. Them seeming to legitimately be seeking Pastor Tim's advice about the potential move just seemed out of character and unlikely.

DTP02 said:

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Show is really going at a breakneck pace right now, at least by its own standards.

For one of the few times with this show, I have a significant complaint about the writing. Them seeming to legitimately be seeking Pastor Tim's advice about the potential move just seemed out of character and unlikely.

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Well I thought about that too. And while they seemed genuine I thought it could have been both sincere and a play. By seeking his advice and letting him know they are moving back I think that maybe makes him less worried about Paige. He wants them to be honest. we saw him consider the consequences and he said the kids would be fine after some adjustment and that really they had a tough choice and it was hard on them either way. But I think them seeking his advice both makes him think they are genuine about it and he can leave without feeling like he has to report anything.

I don't know. It was a bit out of character it seemed. But they may have decided they needed to do that to satisfy him about their plans. If he knows they are no longer operating as spies he might be fine letting it slide.

if they do all go back to russia, theyre gonna be the reverse version of the family theyve been watching with tuan - elizabeth will like being back but paige and phillip will hate it. although if phillip gets to meet his son and his brother and that family, it may help him.

no idea about henry. any chance they try leaving him behind at the school and the rest of the family moves to russia without telling him the truth of who they are?

That's exactly how I read that. If he's leaving and thinks Paige will be safe, they hope he won't be a threat.

You guys are a lot better at interpreting nonverbal cues than I am, so can I get your help with that final sequence between Tuan and P/E? This is how I'm interpreting it: Both Phillip and Elizabeth are shocked and disgusted by Tuan's plan, but even though she may dislike it, Elizabeth has no desire to stop it because at least it will move her plan to get the Russians to move home forward.

Phillip, though, is 100% on board with stopping it, mission be damned, which is why he's the first to get up and walk out the door.

I just can't tell if Elizabeth cares if that kid dies or not. For some reason, I feel like that detail is going to be important as they make their decision about whether to go home and how to handle their own kids.

On the other hand, Phillip looks completely done. Either as a result of great acting or that new baby keeping Matthew Rhys from sleeping, he looked absolutely defeated, exhausted, and mentally checked out all episode long. Can't wait to see how this ends.

dave94 said:

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That's exactly how I read that. If he's leaving and thinks Paige will be safe, they hope he won't be a threat.

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I considered that while I was watching, but it just doesn't make sense to me. Why introduce something to him, taking Paige to Russia, which upsets the balance they've established? As it is, Pastor Tim is thinking, okay, a couple years and she's on her own, anyway. Now, there is a possibility that you take Paige to Russia and she hates it but is stuck there. Why introduce that possibility which might motivate him to act when you already have him under control and he's about to be out of sight, out of mind?

To me, that motivation is less plausible than the apparent motivation, which is simply that they are looking for advice from the one guy, with Gabriel gone, who knows their story and cares about them (Paige, anyway). Either way I don't think it makes sense.

I think you've read it correctly, although I would say more that Elizabeth is torn between the utility of Tuan's plan in accomplishing the mission and the immorality of it. She's seriously conflicted, but without Phillip's presence and input, would be willing to let Tuan's plan proceed.

If you tie it in to her reaction to her recent murder of the Nazi "collaborator" and husband, I think it shows that while Elizabeth still allows the mission to control when push comes to shove, she also increasingly recognizes the "wrongness" of it all and looking to Phillip to provide a moral compass for them both.

Phillip has been increasingly unhappy throughout the series with the immorality of what they're frequently asked to do, which reached a peak with the murder of the wheat researcher. He doesn't want to do any of it anymore, and was only partially on board with killing the Nazi collaborator initially because of the possibility she really deserved it. There is no gray area with Pasha however, and he's dead set on stopping it, no matter what.

J.P. 03 said:

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You guys are a lot better at interpreting nonverbal cues than I am, so can I get your help with that final sequence between Tuan and P/E? This is how I'm interpreting it: Both Phillip and Elizabeth are shocked and disgusted by Tuan's plan, but even though she may dislike it, Elizabeth has no desire to stop it because at least it will move her plan to get the Russians to move home forward.

Phillip, though, is 100% on board with stopping it, mission be damned, which is why he's the first to get up and walk out the door.

I just can't tell if Elizabeth cares if that kid dies or not. For some reason, I feel like that detail is going to be important as they make their decision about whether to go home and how to handle their own kids.

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I read the scene differently. I thought Elizabeth's reluctance to intervene was chiefly out of self-interest because they know the Russian family is under surveillance.

Martha speaking Russian sighting!

So I think the final season is pretty much set up.

Phillip wants to leave, Elizabeth can't. Conflict.
Stan is dating a spy.
Henry and boarding school, what to do.
Paige, same story line as the last two years.
One final grand job to compromise Breland and then they go home heroes.
Everything happening back in Russia is still up for when they get back there.

What year are we in now, and how close are we to thawing of Soviet relations? I kind of hope we get to see that era start by the end of the next season, just to see the reaction....a flash foward at the very end to the fall of the USSR (assuming P/E are still alive) would be a nice touch too.

TexasAggie008 said:

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What year are we in now, and how close are we to thawing of Soviet relations? I kind of hope we get to see that era start by the end of the next season, just to see the reaction....a flash foward at the very end to the fall of the USSR (assuming P/E are still alive) would be a nice touch too.

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I looked tonight at the date of the Reagan Russia gaffe, August 11, 1984.

I thought Stan was about to get killed by his (possibly) Soviet spy girlfriend when he told her he was quitting and she started giggling. "You're of no use to me anymore"

I agree that very little happened considering it was a season finale. No surprises or plot twists... All it did was set up the final season. Last season better be amazing!

I knew once Elizabeth was looking around at all of the "comfort" items she was going to be doing without that she wasn't ready to leave. I think this latest intel is just an excuse to stay.

Dude, that "let me talk to him for a few minutes" was killer!! "And since we're being honest, you will fail." OH BUDDY!!

The smile on Martha's face when she realized they were giving her a child if she wants it was so sweet. My husband thinks it will make her stay in Russia permanent though, since she'll have a child. That makes me wonder, do you think her stay in Russia was ever short-lived? I always figured she'd be there forever, given what she knows. I think she'll ask for her parents to join her though.

I too, thought that Stan was about to be the recipient of a bullet tot he head when he said he was going to leave the FBI. Did we ever think about this chick being CIA to make sure he's not a mole?

The scene with Martha and the orphans. Incredible.

Got it......**not meant to be political** - but seeing that news clip describing what Reagan did reminds me of a certain other President's ability to get into hot water via off handed comments. Would be interesting to see a deeper dive into how that was covered at the time vs how things are covered now.

Quote:

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Difference is that Reagan's comment was made as a joke during a mic check before a Presidential address over the radio. The good folks at NPR leaked it. Not much has changed over at NPR in 30 years.

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So you think if Obama had done this that Fox wouldn't have done the same?

chiken said:

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I knew once Elizabeth was looking around at all of the "comfort" items she was going to be doing without that she wasn't ready to leave. I think this latest intel is just an excuse to stay.

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I loved this scene. Biggest twist of the season for me. I've always expected that Elizabeth would be the true believer to the bitter end and would forsake everything - family, worldly possessions - for Mother Russia. Apparently when push comes to shove, that shoe collection and dishwasher are hard to part with.

I like the montage set to the Elton John song......

it was tense though i kept expecting something to happen to Paige or Stan or Philip....or for it to suddenly do a 6 month time jump and then end with a teaser.

very anticlimactic actually but it had the feeling that anything could happen.

Really wish they would've thrown us a bone in the season finale with something at least a little exciting at the end. It sucks having to wait another 10 months to continue this story. No skin off the backs the backs for the people who will binge watch this show in the future, but it sucks for us who watch it in real time.

Ryno01 said:

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I just knew Paige was gonna get mugged walking to her car and she was gonna kick some ass

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I thought it was going to be just the opposite.

She was going to get mugged and get her ass kicked.

The D said:

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Ryno01 said:

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I just knew Paige was gonna get mugged walking to her car and she was gonna kick some ass

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Wasnt that the same spot where Elizabeth killed that guy with Paige? I almost thought Paige parked there on purpose hoping to get mugged so she could show off her new fighting skills.

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I am pretty sure you are right. That is why I thought she was going to get jumped and lose, so
Showing that she isn't Elizabeth. And adding to the Elizabeth's desire to stay.

Duncan Idaho said:

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The D said:

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Ryno01 said:

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I just knew Paige was gonna get mugged walking to her car and she was gonna kick some ass

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Wasnt that the same spot where Elizabeth killed that guy with Paige? I almost thought Paige parked there on purpose hoping to get mugged so she could show off her new fighting skills.

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I am pretty sure you are right. That is why I thought she was going to get jumped and lose, so
Showing that she isn't Elizabeth. And adding to the Elizabeth's desire to stay.

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I like how we are writing a better plot for the finale than the showrunners did. Really a finale where anything happened after the first 10 min would've been an improvement...

I think it would have balanced well with the "you will fail" scene

Kind of a disappointing finale after the Pasha thing wrapped up and the sit down with Tuan. I'm sure this is not the case, but it felt a bit like the writers weren't sure exactly where they were going.

I think Elizabeth has been playing Phillip all along. As has been stated before... Elizabeth is full on Mother Russia. It would not surprise me one bit if she was taking direction from The Center concerning Phillip.

I have a problem with the finale. Elizabeth Jennings is many things, but one thing she is not is someone who would pine over a dishwasher. She just shot an old lady and her completely innocent husband in the head for goodness sake!

Would have been better if she was 100% all in leaving until Phil told her about Kimi's dad.

(Side bar--I feel much better now that Kimi no longer looks 14.)

I don't think Philip really wanted to leave either because of how he's become invested in doing the right thing. If he leaves, the center sends someone new to run the Kimmy operation who maybe doesn't have the same moral compass and is ok screwing up her life/using her sexually. Especially if he reports the dad's promotion a continuation of the kimmy operation is assured and they know her weaknesses. He almost has gotten to the point of taking things into his own hands in deciding what intel the center should and shouldn't get.

His kids also would face huge struggles in Russia which makes his decision to walk away seem selfish. Phillip just wanted to make sure elizabeth was on board too with staying.

At this point, I think it's a mistake to think elizabeth is 100% committed to the cause. She wants to be, but she's conflicted. She can talk the full communist game but she doesn't want to walk the walk and really go be a comrade back home.

Thinking about starting this show. Consensus here good? No? Love to know your thoughts