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Non Communist Hollywood?

11,289 Views | 213 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by RoamingGnome
Aggie4242
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aTmAg said:

Aggie4242 said:

aTmAg said:

Aggie4242 said:

aTmAg said:

Aggie4242 said:

aTmAg said:

Aggie4242 said:

aTmAg said:

TCTTS said:

aTmAg said:

TCTTS said:

These are hilarious. I now need ref memes calling every thread.
You going to answer the academia question? Or try to tear-laugh your way out of it?

I blatantly ignored it because I have no clue what it has to do with anything we're talking about. We're discussing whether HOLLYWOOD "blacklists" conservative actors. And in doing so, we've PROVEN that multiple conservative actors STILL have flourishing careers, thus disproving your and Antonio Sabato Jr's claims. Does Hollywood lean strongly left? Absolutely. Does Academia lean strongly left? No doubt. But that's not what we're arguing.

JFC.
I didn't ask if they strongly lean left. I asked if you believe that academia "blacklists" conservatives?


Do you believe the Earth is flat?
No. Do you believe academia blacklists (purposefully pushes out) conservatives?


Do you believe that tonight is going to be a good night?
Why are you afraid to answer such a simple question?


Oh, sorry! I thought we were playing the, "ask irrelevant questions" game!
No, you are playing the, "avoid inconvenient questions because I know I'm wrong and don't want to be exposed" game.


The irony of this comment is delicious.
I'm not avoiding questions. You are.


Wrong again! You still have not answered the question that this entire thread is about:

Quote:

You understand the burden of proof is on you, right?


Since you got your head kicked in, repeatedly, while being soundly embarrassed, you tucked tail and changed the subject.

You aren't suited for debate. You are suited for an echo chamber where you aren't forced to answer tough questions.

Once you provide evidence that backs up claims that all conservatives are systematically discriminated against In Hollywood because of their political beliefs, we can address your constant goal post moving.

Now, run along back to f16 where you don't have to think critically and everybody will pat you on the back for your hyperbole.
Aggie4242
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RichardSplet
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aTmag
aTmAg
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AG

Quote:

A) If you think that Disney and Netflix are simply being petty about their dislike of conservatives when threatening to not do business with states who enact anti-LGBQ legislation, you and I are even further apart on this than I thought, and that's saying something. Because that's simply not a "I don't like you because you're conservative" issue. That's companies standing up for what they believe is right, and I happen to agree wholeheartedly with their efforts. It's 2020. If being anti-anti-LBGQ is problematic for you, you might want to take a good, long look in the mirror.
So you don't see the irony in this response? So you guys aren't acting against conservatives because they are conservative, but because of "what you believe is right". Which, BTW, is exactly what liberals throughout Hollywood tell themselves when they discriminate against conservatives. They think they are doing what is "right".

(And BTW, I disagree with half of that law. Georgia employees need to do their job or face termination. If they don't like handing out marriage licenses to gays, then they need to find another job. However, I agree with the part where a pastor (non-government employee) should not be forced by government to marry people that they don't want to marry just like a Jewish baker should not be forced by government to bake a pro-Hitler cake for a neo-nazi customer.)

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B). If you think liberals treat conservatives bad, pick literally any thread on F16 and take a look at just how much seething hatred conservatives over there have for liberals in return. Seeing as you're so concerned with the issue, I assume you'll be just as outraged by what say they'd do to liberals when and if given the chance.
I'm sure you can find some a-holes on F16, but you can also find plenty over here. But this is not talking about a-holes getting their just treatment. We are talking about non-a-holes losing jobs merely because they are conservative.

(And BTW again.. People should be able to hire and fire whoever they want. Even if they are conservative or communist. But we also have the right to call them out on hypocrisy when they lament the blacklist of the McCarthy era but do the same sort of thing today.)
fig96
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AG
Here's what Hollywood cares about: money. And people not making headlines for being awful.

They also care about not discriminating against people, which I don't find particularly liberal. Some companies are choosing not to work in Georgia and other states that push laws that do encourage discrimination, but you also have Tyler Perry with a giant studio in Atlanta.

You have been able to pinpoint a total of two people that are conservatives that are not working. James Woods is not working/retired because he's a person who says awful things. Antonio Sabato Jr is not working much because he's not especially talented. Tim Allen's show moved networks which happens all the time. One Day at a Time is super liberal and was popular and moved networks, so did The Mindy Project and lots of other things.

Conservatives like Dwayne Johnson, Bruce Willis, Clint Eastwood, and Arnold manage to have their political views and actually be decent people. They also make things that make lots of money. Shockingly, they continue to get work.

So not talented enough and/or being awful means you'll have a hard time working in Hollywood. Being talented and a person that people like leads to more projects. Scandalous.
aTmAg
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AG

Quote:

Wrong again! You still have not answered the question that this entire thread is about:

Quote:

You understand the burden of proof is on you, right?

No. It's not. People don't get to make up who has the burden of proof out of the blue.
Quote:

Since you got your head kicked in, repeatedly, while being soundly embarrassed, you tucked tail and changed the subject.

You aren't suited for debate. You are suited for an echo chamber where you aren't forced to answer tough questions.
One of us is using ref memes as their "argument". When one does that, they have pretty much conceded defeat. And there hasn't been a single "tough" question asked on this board, nevermind this thread.

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Once you provide evidence that backs up claims that all conservatives are systematically discriminated against In Hollywood because of their political beliefs, we can address your constant goal post moving.
I said no such thing. In fact I specifically said NOT all. But I don't expect an intellectual lightweight as yourself to be able to understand nuanced discussion. After all, you are a EB poster.
aTmAg
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AG
fig96 said:

Here's what Hollywood cares about: money. And people not making headlines for being awful.
...and liberal causes. Just watch ANY awards show for confirmation.

Quote:

They also care about not discriminating against people, which I don't find particularly liberal. Some companies are choosing not to work in Georgia and other states that push laws that do encourage discrimination, but you also have Tyler Perry with a giant studio in Atlanta.
They seem to not care about discrimination against conservatives. They just cloak it in "doing the right thing". And saying that a pastor should be forced to perform a marriage on somebody is slavery. I guess that's the sort of thing democrats are known for, however.

Quote:

You have been able to pinpoint a total of two people that are conservatives that are not working. James Woods is not working/retired because he's a person who says awful things. Antonio Sabato Jr is not working much because he's not especially talented. Tim Allen's show moved networks which happens all the time. One Day at a Time is super liberal and was popular and moved networks, so did The Mindy Project and lots of other things.
So explain why you think Tim Allen's show was cancelled from ABC?

Quote:

Conservatives like Dwayne Johnson, Bruce Willis, Clint Eastwood, and Arnold manage to have their political views and actually be decent people. They also make things that make lots of money. Shockingly, they continue to get work.
Well gee I guess that since Jackie Robinson was in MLB in 1947, then there must have been no racism in baseball anymore, right?

Quote:

So not talented enough and/or being awful means you'll have a hard time working in Hollywood. Being talented and a person that people like leads to more projects. Scandalous.
It's not just those few people I'm talking about. Those are just the people who were big enough to come out and proud about it. According to them, there are thousands of lower level people who choose to remain anonymous out of fear of losing their jobs.
TCTTS
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AG
fig96 said:

Here's what Hollywood cares about: money. And people not making headlines for being awful.

They also care about not discriminating against people, which I don't find particularly liberal. Some companies are choosing not to work in Georgia and other states that push laws that do encourage discrimination, but you also have Tyler Perry with a giant studio in Atlanta.

You have been able to pinpoint a total of two people that are conservatives that are not working. James Woods is not working/retired because he's a person who says awful things. Antonio Sabato Jr is not working much because he's not especially talented. Tim Allen's show moved networks which happens all the time. One Day at a Time is super liberal and was popular and moved networks, so did The Mindy Project and lots of other things.

Conservatives like Dwayne Johnson, Bruce Willis, Clint Eastwood, and Arnold manage to have their political views and actually be decent people. They also make things that make lots of money. Shockingly, they continue to get work.

So not talented enough and/or being awful means you'll have a hard time working in Hollywood. Being talented and a person that people like leads to more projects. Scandalous.

Sums it up better than any post in this thread.
Aggie4242
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Yes, the person that makes the claim, and/or supports that claim, has the burden to prove that claim.

As far as the memes go, those are pointing out logical fallacies that you have used and are incredibly pertinent to a discussion with somebody that consistently uses logical fallacies to try and make a point (for example, the ad hominem you put in your post).
bearamedic99
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aTmAg
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AG
Aggie4242 said:

Yes, the person that makes the claim, and/or supports that claim, has the burden to prove that claim.
No.. they don't. This isn't a court of law and they aren't going to out people who don't want to be outed just to satisfy dense posters on the internet who refuse to see the obvious. Even if they were outed, I'm sure they would be labeled "B-listers" by Z-listers like TCTTS.

And besides, you are making the claim that there is no bias against conservatives in Hollywood. So why wouldn't the burden be on you?

Quote:

As far as the memes go, those are called logical fallacies and are incredibly pertinent to a discussion with somebody that consistently uses logical fallacies to try and make a point.
Nope.. They are sign of a weak argument when used to refuse to actually address questions or points made to you.
TCTTS
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AG
aTmAg said:

Aggie4242 said:

Yes, the person that makes the claim, and/or supports that claim, has the burden to prove that claim.
No.. they don't. This isn't a court of law and they aren't going to out people who don't want to be outed just to satisfy dense posters on the internet who refuse to see the obvious. Even if they were outed, I'm sure they would be labeled "B-listers" by Z-listers like TCTTS.

And besides, you are making the claim that there is no bias against conservatives in Hollywood. So why wouldn't the burden be on you?

Quote:

As far as the memes go, those are called logical fallacies and are incredibly pertinent to a discussion with somebody that consistently uses logical fallacies to try and make a point.
Nope.. They are sign of a weak argument when used to refuse to actually address questions or points made to you.



I made the alphabet?!
aTmAg
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AG
TCTTS said:

aTmAg said:

Aggie4242 said:

Yes, the person that makes the claim, and/or supports that claim, has the burden to prove that claim.
No.. they don't. This isn't a court of law and they aren't going to out people who don't want to be outed just to satisfy dense posters on the internet who refuse to see the obvious. Even if they were outed, I'm sure they would be labeled "B-listers" by Z-listers like TCTTS.

And besides, you are making the claim that there is no bias against conservatives in Hollywood. So why wouldn't the burden be on you?

Quote:

As far as the memes go, those are called logical fallacies and are incredibly pertinent to a discussion with somebody that consistently uses logical fallacies to try and make a point.
Nope.. They are sign of a weak argument when used to refuse to actually address questions or points made to you.



I made the alphabet?!
I'm glad you got a sense of humor about that dig. I have no idea who you are, obviously.
Aggie4242
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Where did I make the claim there is no bias in Hollywood?

Please show me where I said those exact words.

Also, thanks for making it clear that you don't understand logical fallacies and why they don't need to be addressed. I have to think you are trolling at this point.
Aggie4242
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Being a Z-lister is a pretty sick burn, especially since he doesn't even know who you are, obviously.
aTmAg
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AG
Aggie4242 said:

Where did I make the claim there is no bias in Hollywood?

Please show me where I said those exact words.
That there is no "blacklisting" of conservatives then.
Aggie4242
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Show me where I said there was no bias in Hollywood. Hint, you don't do that by asking questions after you have made a claim.
aTmAg
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AG
Aggie4242 said:

Show me where I said there was no bias in Hollywood. Hint, you don't do that by asking questions after you have made a claim.
You asked that already. I clarified. Are you now agreeing that Hollywood does discriminate against conservatives?
Aggie4242
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aTmAg said:

Aggie4242 said:

Show me where I said there was no bias in Hollywood. Hint, you don't do that by asking questions after you have made a claim.
You asked that already. I clarified. Are you now agreeing that Hollywood does discriminate against conservatives?


I don't think you could have created a better demonstration of the logical fallacy called "moving the goalposts.

Be clear now, what exactly are you trying to get an answer to?
Sex Panther
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AG
Look, TC hardly needs me to defend him but I gotta step in here, cuz that's a load of crap.

He's firmly on the P-List now. And the sky is the limit...


aTmAg
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AG
Aggie4242 said:

aTmAg said:

Aggie4242 said:

Show me where I said there was no bias in Hollywood. Hint, you don't do that by asking questions after you have made a claim.
You asked that already. I clarified. Are you now agreeing that Hollywood does discriminate against conservatives?


I don't think you could have created a better demonstration of the logical fallacy called "moving the goalposts.

Be clear now, what exactly are you trying to get an answer to?
So what does "blacklist against conservatives" mean to you other than "discriminate against conservatives"? As far as I'm concerned, they are the same thing (and same goalpost).
expresswrittenconsent
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Oh, a "P-list" joke.
TCTTS
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AG
Thank you!

Working hard to make O-status by 2022 or so.
TCTTS
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AG
Ha, went right over my head.
Sex Panther
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AG
Does P-list mean something else?

My jokes are so layered, even I don't get them fully.
Aggie4242
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aTmAg said:

Aggie4242 said:

aTmAg said:

Aggie4242 said:

Show me where I said there was no bias in Hollywood. Hint, you don't do that by asking questions after you have made a claim.
You asked that already. I clarified. Are you now agreeing that Hollywood does discriminate against conservatives?


I don't think you could have created a better demonstration of the logical fallacy called "moving the goalposts.

Be clear now, what exactly are you trying to get an answer to?
So what does "blacklist against conservatives" mean to you other than "discriminate against conservatives"? As far as I'm concerned, they are the same thing (and same goalpost).


I have not seen any direct evidence that folks in Hollywood are "blacklisted" specifically because of their political beliefs.

Further, I do not care if an actor (or anybody, really) is blacklisted due to their political beliefs. You only care when conservatives run into this, as evidenced by this thread:

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3093381/3#discussion

And you specifically said this:

Quote:

Everything you do is tied to your job. You do something that embarrasses them, you get fired


And this:

Quote:

Quote:

Should he be fired for going to a church that is unpopular as well?

If the school thinks so then yes. However, they run the risk of excluding themselves of quality teachers, so they have to use sound judgement.


So, why has your position suddenly shifted now? Or do you think the things conservatives say shouldn't be tied to their jobs because they are "special"?

expresswrittenconsent
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Sex Panther said:

Does P-list mean something else?

My jokes are so layered, even I don't get them fully.

I'm glad you had a sense of humor for my jab. Obviously, I dont know who you are.
aTmAg
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AG
Aggie4242 said:

aTmAg said:

Aggie4242 said:

aTmAg said:

Aggie4242 said:

Show me where I said there was no bias in Hollywood. Hint, you don't do that by asking questions after you have made a claim.
You asked that already. I clarified. Are you now agreeing that Hollywood does discriminate against conservatives?


I don't think you could have created a better demonstration of the logical fallacy called "moving the goalposts.

Be clear now, what exactly are you trying to get an answer to?
So what does "blacklist against conservatives" mean to you other than "discriminate against conservatives"? As far as I'm concerned, they are the same thing (and same goalpost).
I have not seen any direct evidence that folks in Hollywood are "blacklisted" specifically because of their political beliefs.
No, you refuse to believe direct evidence. That email is direct evidence. And there is TONS of indirect evidence that you ignore as well.

Quote:

So, why has your position suddenly shifted now? Or do you think the things conservatives say shouldn't be tied to their jobs because they are "special"?
I have not shifted my position. Above on this page I said the following:

Quote:

And BTW again.. People should be able to hire and fire whoever they want. Even if they are conservative or communist. But we also have the right to call them out on hypocrisy when they lament the blacklist of the McCarthy era but do the same sort of thing today.
Aggie4242
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The letter is not direct evidence that conservatives are blacklisted. It didn't even mention politics.

Also, you only have issues when conservatives are "victims", even though there is no direct evidence of a conspiracy against all conservatives.

It has been 4+ pages and you have still failed to provide any evidence for your position and you have already stated that companies can hire/fire who they.
aTmAg
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AG
Aggie4242 said:

The letter is not direct evidence that conservatives are blacklisted. It didn't even mention politics.
Bull crap. He said he was dropping Woods do to (the agent's) "patriotic" reasons. What the hell does that mean to you? Is Woods conducting espionage against the US and his agent wants to drop Woods because of that? Of course not. He is obviously talking politics. I guess in your world, you would need a video of him to say "I am blacklisting conservatives" before you consider it "direct evidence". Even then you would still probably claim it was deep faked or something.

Quote:

Also, you only have issues when conservatives are "victims", even though there is no direct evidence of a conspiracy against all conservatives.
Saying incorrect things about evidence over and over again does not make it correct. I posted here because I saw people on this thread laughably claiming that there is no Hollywood blacklist, despite many conservatives in Hollywood saying the exact opposite AND seeing the exact same behavior being conducted by liberals in every other field possible.

Quote:

It has been 4+ pages and you have still failed to provide any evidence for your position and you have already stated that companies can hire/fire who they.
Wrong again. You just refuse to acknowledge evidence when it slaps you in the face.
fig96
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AG
So I gotta start with this...

Quote:

I'm sure you can find some a-holes on F16, but you can also find plenty over here. But this is not talking about a-holes getting their just treatment. We are talking about non-a-holes losing jobs merely because they are conservative.
Such as? Everyone on here has been incredibly civil despite your ******* comments, while I could find you people telling folks who are liberal or Democrats that they're vile, the scum of the earth, hate America, etc., on that other board in about two minutes if you'd like. We do have disagreements on here, but in general folks stay pretty civil and get along. I'd happily see a movie and grab a beer with any of the regulars on this board, even the ones with terrible taste in Star Wars films (you know who you are).

And we haven't yet found an example of a non a-hole losing a job because they're conservative. James Woods, I hate to to break it to you, is an a-hole. Antonio Sabato Jr is just not that talented.

Annnnnd...

Quote:

No. It's not. People don't get to make up who has the burden of proof out of the blue.
You are correct, the burden of proof falls on the person making the claim. If you claim conservatives are being blacklisted then you need to show evidence to that fact that's more convincing than "these guys who aren't getting work claim there's thousands more of them". Even us intellectual lightweights know that.

Anyway...

Quote:

...and liberal causes. Just watch ANY awards show for confirmation.
Haven't seen anyone claim that Hollywood doesn't lean liberal.

Are there some people who won't want to work with people who have beliefs that diverge greatly from their own, or folks that support something they find awful? Sure, and the same goes for both sides of the political aisle in just about any field. That's not blacklisting.

Quote:

They seem to not care about discrimination against conservatives. They just cloak it in "doing the right thing". And saying that a pastor should be forced to perform a marriage on somebody is slavery. I guess that's the sort of thing democrats are known for, however.
See, here's where you go off the rails and lose any semblance of a rational argument. Nothing about the anti-LGBT legislation in Georgia has anything to do with pastors being forced to marry anyone, which I'd imagine most people would say was dumb. And now you're ranting about Democrats. This is the Entertainment board, stick to the plot man.

Quote:

So explain why you think Tim Allen's show was cancelled from ABC?
Per a quick search, ABC would've had to pick up the costs of producing the new season (it had been paid by the production company for the first several seasons) and was moving away from sitcoms in the slot where his show fit. Their president said it was a hard decision. But I don't know the details, and shows get cancelled for all kinds of reasons like the more liberal shows I mentioned. A show getting cancelled is a horribly flimsy piece of evidence.

Quote:

Well gee I guess that since Jackie Robinson was in MLB in 1947, then there must have been no racism in baseball anymore, right?
You're really terrible at the arguments.

Were there one lone conservative who was ridiculed but kept making movies anyway and was eventually an inspiration for the country then this might hold up in some weird way. Not to mention that racism is a far more complex issue. But I'll admit that only listing a few could be outliers so let's add to the list.

Outside the already mentioned really prominent conservatives that are incredibly successful in Hollywood, a quick search adds more to the list: Vince Vaughn, Joe Pesci, Kurt Russell, Sylvester Stallone, Tom Selleck, Jon Voight, James Caan, and Laura Prepon. Those folks aren't having a hard time finding work.

And we've already mentioned Adam Sandler...any argument that Hollywood is blacklisting conservatives goes out the window with Adam Sandler. He hasn't made a genuinely good movie in a decade and Netflix won't stop throwing money at him.

Quote:

It's not just those few people I'm talking about. Those are just the people who were big enough to come out and proud about it. According to them, there are thousands of lower level people who choose to remain anonymous out of fear of losing their jobs.
Here's the thing: that's not proof. That's hearsay at best.

You want to prove that there's discrimination? Find a liberal, attractive late-40s actor who's not very talented that's super successful in Hollywood. Or a decent talented older liberal actor who says horrible hateful things on Twitter but is still busy making movies.

Spoiler: there's few or none, because if you're not talented or an awful person most folks don't want to hire you. If you're talented enough at anything (see: the NFL, Hollywood, etc.) then people will forgive all kinds of behavior. But if the headache of working with your eclipses how good you are people will just move on.

Are there some people who are refusing to hire people because of their political views? Probably, there's awful people everywhere. But the fact that none of these articles are featuring folks who were at one time really successful (except for Woods...again, *******) and now can't get projects is kind of telling.
Duncan Idaho
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I'm impressed by the effort but confused by why you bothered.
fig96
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AG
Made the mistake of reading earlier when I wouldn't have a chance to respond so had way too much time to think about it
Aggie4242
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Well said! That puts a nice bow on the conversation.
bluefire579
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AG
Quote:

And we've already mentioned Adam Sandler...any argument that Hollywood is blacklisting conservatives goes out the window with Adam Sandler. He hasn't made a genuinely good movie in a decade and Netflix won't stop throwing money at him.
Too be fair, I've heard Uncut Gems from last year was very good (still need to watch it myself).

But otherwise, stellar post
 
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