Guitarsoup said:

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Can any of you legal types answer this:

Why were the hundreds of financial crimes allowed other than the judge clearly hated Murdaugh?

It seems that since there wasn't a massive life insurance policy he could use to cover up the financial crimes, they were WAY more prejudicial than probative.

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That would certainly be an issue for an appellate court to consider. Trial judge got to make that call and he was willing to go along with prosecutors argument that it went to motive and the judge was supposedly going to "see how it goes." I think judge's decision was wrong but not sure it's a slam dunk winner on appeal because they did their best to tie the financial crimes to the motive for the murders.

I think they said the defense opened the door with a birthday video?

unmade bed said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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Can any of you legal types answer this:

Why were the hundreds of financial crimes allowed other than the judge clearly hated Murdaugh?

It seems that since there wasn't a massive life insurance policy he could use to cover up the financial crimes, they were WAY more prejudicial than probative.

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That would certainly be an issue for an appellate court to consider. Trial judge got to make that call and he was willing to go along with prosecutors argument that it went to motive and the judge was supposedly going to "see how it goes." I think judge's decision was wrong but not sure it's a slam dunk winner on appeal because they did their best to tie the financial crimes to the motive for the murders.

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I didn't see a tie at all. I just saw it as a way they could grill him for 10 hours on everyone he ever lied to. They were able to paint him as a liar and get him to admit to 100 financial crimes.

Killing his wife and kid didn't make the law firm forget or forgive the money he stole.

He has a job and lives with his girlfriend in another town.

Guitarsoup said:

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AustinCountyAg said:

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touch, good point. either way his butt hole is very tight. I'd be willing to bet most of their old family friends who'd normally hook him up with a kush job wont touch him now with a fifty foot pole. Like I said, he's gunna be hanging around selling tractors for his uncle now

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The real question is this:

Dad was making 7 figures/year and stole at least 10mm. He couldn't have spent anywhere near that much on oxy.

How much was dad able to hide for Buster before the walls came crashing in. I'll bet you there are some decent crypto accounts out there somewhere for Buster.

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I wasn't paying close attention then when he was talking total pills and certain milligrams and all that so the math never made any radar. That is an interesting problem to look into and calculate on the high end. It sounds like that have things down to the penny for what he stole from each of the people he ****ed over.

aggiehawg said:

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cheeky said:

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What is the theory on why he would murder his wife in son?

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Motive?

Prosecution claimed his financial problems were so great that he murdered them because???

They never filled in those question marks. No insurance on either Paul or Maggie. No financial advantage to Alex accrues from their deaths. BUT somehow, getting a small continuance for a hearing for a motion in the boat case was some kind of existential threat to him?

Any experienced trial attorney doesn't sweat hearings like that. And a continuance does not make a motion go away, doesn't make the underlying case go away so it is not a permanent solution to anything for Alex. Ended the criminal case against Paul for the boat accident. That's about it.

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I don't think that is the motive being portrayed.

wasn't it more about the fact the law firm was coming down on him like a ton of bricks- so this would get him sympathy and have the firm get off his back.

keep in mind- wasn't the guy an ADMITTED Opiod addict? does that always make you think clear headed and rationally?

wasn't there testimony the wife was getting sick of him and might divorce him?

redcrayon said:

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I think they said the defense opened the door with a birthday video?

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How does this open the door? Seems absurd it has anything to do with financial crimes...

Guitarsoup said:

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Can any of you legal types answer this:

Why were the hundreds of financial crimes allowed other than the judge clearly hated Murdaugh?

It seems that since there wasn't a massive life insurance policy he could use to cover up the financial crimes, they were WAY more prejudicial than probative.

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I don't think the judge necessarily hated him, but I think he was very permissive. It may just be how he runs every trial. The state wanted them in under the guise of motive evidence but that was flimsy. Motive is not an element they had to prove so introducing that evidence was largely unnecessary. Really what they wanted to do was to make sure the jury understood he was a man to be hated. The judge used his discretion to allow it.

No, there was no testimony about any divorce. You're bringing it stuff from Netflix and HBO.

TRM said:

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redcrayon said:

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I think they said the defense opened the door with a birthday video?

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How does this open the door? Seems absurd it has anything to do with financial crimes...

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Honestly, it was so early on that I can't remember. I think his best friend that he screwed over was in the video? Maybe hawg remembers how it opened the door.

Quote:

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How does this open the door? Seems absurd it has anything to do with financial crimes...

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It had something to do with a comment/question a defense attorney said about the video.

No victim impact statements from the prosecution side during sentencing.

No victim impact speakers at sentencing.

Sentencing phase is live now.

There will be no victim impact statements.

Waters is doing the shaming for them. Bringing up how amazing the Murdaugh family is and how Alex let them all down. Bringing up financial crimes.

The law firm was not coming down on him at that time. Most of that happened after the murder. He had one meeting that day with the law firm financial person who questioned him about money, but the testimony seemed to indicate they've had those types of questions before and he was always able to cover it. He was a guy who could walk into his bank and just get a huge loan with no questions asked. They didn't have life insurance, so no benefit in killing them for that.

The only logical motive I can think of that the state didn't try to argue too much was that the property was under Maggie's name. If he takes out Paul and Maggie he gets that property. He can sell it and settle with the Beach family and come up with some money to pay back his law partners.

Not a Bot said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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Can any of you legal types answer this:

Why were the hundreds of financial crimes allowed other than the judge clearly hated Murdaugh?

It seems that since there wasn't a massive life insurance policy he could use to cover up the financial crimes, they were WAY more prejudicial than probative.

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I don't think the judge necessarily hated him, but I think he was very permissive. It may just be how he runs every trial. The state wanted them in under the guise of motive evidence but that was flimsy. Motive is not an element they had to prove so introducing that evidence was largely unnecessary. Really what they wanted to do was to make sure the jury understood he was a man to be hated. The judge used his discretion to allow it.

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The jury sat for 6 weeks, couldnt take notes and convicted in 45 minutes. Then the Judge said that they made the only possible decision based on the "overwhelming evidence" and thanked them for taking so much time to carefully consider all the evidence. 45 minutes.



Overwhelming evidence of financial crimes and lying, sure.

Overwhelming evidence of murder?
* no murder weapon
* no blood splatter
* no confession
* no bloody clothes
* no motive


I think Alex is the most likely person to have committed the shooting, but the evidence wasn't there beyond a reasonable doubt.

The judge calling this "overwhelming evidence of guilt" shows a pretty strong bias against the defendant when there was no physical evidence he perpetuated the crime and no motive.

The state said the defense opened the door by asking a question along the lines of "can you think of any reason he would do this?"

The reality is they did planned to get the financial stuff in all along. Waters alluded to it in his opening statement and they had all the witnesses ready to go. They were going to get it in regardless.

AM is addressing the court.

Proclaims his innocence.

Judge shaming him for dishonoring his family now too

This Judge will be presiding over the financial crime cases.

I don't think this judge can stand AM

Holy chit! This judge was presiding judge of the grand jury in which he knows for a fact SLED lied to that grand jury! And did nothing?

Was really hoping Alex would come clean and show remorse because I was looking forward to the incredible explanation on how he did it but I knew that was never gonna happen.

No doubt judge is giving him max.

FireAg said:

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And make no mistake, he belongs in prison for his other crimes…he deserves plenty of time for the crimes he committed…

I just don't see beyond a reasonable doubt for murder…

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some of y'all don't understand the concept of "reasonable" doubt

versus NO doubt whatsoever.

could be these Jurors who heard and saw everything

just believed no reasonable person could believe it wasn't Alex Murdaugh who murdered them. in my mind Alex was responsible one way or another

either he pulled the trigger
either he hired someone to pull the trigger
or his actions in the past brought murderers to his home to avenge his prior acts or his bailing out Paul all the time (least likely)

aggiehawg said:

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Holy chit! This judge was presiding judge of the grand jury in which he knows for a fact SLED lied to that grand jury! And did nothing?

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It may take years, but I don't see any way this doesn't get overturned eventually. This whole thing has been a complete **** show

Lol judge really wants to sentence him death

Quote:

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just believed no reasonable person could believe it wasn't Alex Murdaugh who murdered them. in my mind Alex was responsible one way or another

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3 people went down to the kennels...only 1 returned alive in a pretty short timeframe.

Judge saying he would sentence him to death if the state asked. Highly improper.

aggiehawg said:

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FireAg said:

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South Carolina wanted a Murdaugh in prison for murder come hell or high water…

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AAANNND, the elected State AG showed up for the first time to conduct direct on the last witness on rebuttal. He's GOP.

Murdaugh and Harpootlian are big Dems in the state.

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I knew I had heard of that snake Harpootlian before

did not know Murdaugh was a democrat

fit the profile of old school GOP

another reason to bury that family forever

The officer behind AM is trying to drill holes in AM's skull with his eyes.

Quote:

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in my mind Alex was responsible one way or another

either he pulled the trigger
either he hired someone to pull the trigger
or his actions in the past brought murderers to his home to avenge his prior acts or his bailing out Paul all the time (least likely)

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Those last two scenarios you mentioned do not fit the elements of his charge. He was charged as the person who actually pulled the trigger on both murders. If you still have two other reasonable hypotheses in consideration, that's reasonable doubt.

Judge just admitted he has doubts that it may not have been Alex who killed them?

aggiehawg said:

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Judge just admitted he has doubts that it may not have been Alex who killed them?

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He said the person who killed them could have been the monster AM becomes when he took 10,20,30,40,50,60 pills. He has seen it before. It is the same individual, but they become a different person under the influence.

He was making a point that it wasn't the Alex that is standing before him now that did it, but the one that hooked on opioids. Same individual different "person"

He said not the Alex standing in front of me, but the Alex pill popping Alex.