samurai_science said:

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Amish…very curious how they do it

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In the dark mostly.

100%

Not so crazy that so many became covid vax acolytes.

Yeah…. That's what it is..

IIIHorn said:

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SociallyConditionedAg said:

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WestTexAg12 said:

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Woods Ag said:

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KidDoc said:

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Woods Ag said:

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WolfCall said:

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OP, I wish you would have requested the discussion exclude COVID-19.

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I understand that sentiment, but it's tough not to. The covid vaccine is what changed many of our minds and had us start looking into the rest of them.

Before the mRNA vaccine, I was very much in the camp of "those antivaxxers can just live by themselves"

Everything changed for me with Covid.

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And now we have record breaking numbers of measles and whopping cough, thanks Fauci!

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They'll be ok. Maybe a little more durable on the other side of it.

As I've mentioned before on this thread. My kids have most vaccines. I can't remember the ones that we skipped. My wife is way more clued in on the details. Mostly we elected an elongated schedule rather than pumping them full of everything in a short period of time.

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Our pediatrician office told us that they wouldn't even see my daughter for her timely checkups unless she followed the vaccine schedule. We were going to deny a few vaccines, and this is what they told us.

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That's because they lose a ton of bonus money from insurance companies if they have low vaccination rates.

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Or, the doctor is providing what he believes to be sound medical advice.

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This is a big part of it. Pediatricians will refuse anti vaxxers because they see newborns and infants who are unable to receive measles until 1 year of age.

Another big part of it is why should they see a patient who cannot follow even the most basic medical advice from their provider.

OPAG said:

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There should be no mandate period. Especially if there is ANY CHANCE of an adverse reaction and there have been adverse reactions.

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Is there any vaccine or medication that has no adverse reactions?

I have my annual doctor's appointment in the morning for a blood test to have my thyroid hormones measured.

Since I'm not sick, this would be a good time for vaccinations. Any suggestions as to what vaccinations I should ask for?

eric76 said:

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I have my annual doctor's appointment in the morning for a blood test to have my thyroid hormones measured.

Since I'm not sick, this would be a good time for vaccinations. Any suggestions as to what vaccinations I should ask for?

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Likely none unless over 50 and haven't had a tetanus in 10 years.

SociallyConditionedAg said:

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WestTexAg12 said:

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Woods Ag said:

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KidDoc said:

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Woods Ag said:

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WolfCall said:

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OP, I wish you would have requested the discussion exclude COVID-19.

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I understand that sentiment, but it's tough not to. The covid vaccine is what changed many of our minds and had us start looking into the rest of them.

Before the mRNA vaccine, I was very much in the camp of "those antivaxxers can just live by themselves"

Everything changed for me with Covid.

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And now we have record breaking numbers of measles and whopping cough, thanks Fauci!

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They'll be ok. Maybe a little more durable on the other side of it.

As I've mentioned before on this thread. My kids have most vaccines. I can't remember the ones that we skipped. My wife is way more clued in on the details. Mostly we elected an elongated schedule rather than pumping them full of everything in a short period of time.

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Our pediatrician office told us that they wouldn't even see my daughter for her timely checkups unless she followed the vaccine schedule. We were going to deny a few vaccines, and this is what they told us.

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That's because they lose a ton of bonus money from insurance companies if they have low vaccination rates.

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At least on my contract vaccines have no bearing to my pay. In fact I make more on non vax families because I need to spend extra time going over the litany of diseases they are leaving the infant vulnerable to.

There is a theoretical risk of allowing preventable diseases into your clinic with infants that are too young to vaccinate. However that risk is far smaller than having unvaccinated kids in schools and day care as they are in and out clinic pretty quickly with minimal cross exposure.

Of course with measles that kind of goes out the window. Measles stays contagious for 2 hours in a room so the waiting room will be a hot zone for hours after an active measles case.. Just about impossible to contain outside of vaccine.

eric76 said:

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OPAG said:

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There should be no mandate period. Especially if there is ANY CHANCE of an adverse reaction and there have been adverse reactions.

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Is there any vaccine or medication that has no adverse reactions?

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Everything has an adverse reaction to someone - from peanuts to statins.

IIIHorn said:

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SociallyConditionedAg said:

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WestTexAg12 said:

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Woods Ag said:

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KidDoc said:

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Woods Ag said:

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WolfCall said:

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OP, I wish you would have requested the discussion exclude COVID-19.

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I understand that sentiment, but it's tough not to. The covid vaccine is what changed many of our minds and had us start looking into the rest of them.

Before the mRNA vaccine, I was very much in the camp of "those antivaxxers can just live by themselves"

Everything changed for me with Covid.

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And now we have record breaking numbers of measles and whopping cough, thanks Fauci!

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They'll be ok. Maybe a little more durable on the other side of it.

As I've mentioned before on this thread. My kids have most vaccines. I can't remember the ones that we skipped. My wife is way more clued in on the details. Mostly we elected an elongated schedule rather than pumping them full of everything in a short period of time.

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Our pediatrician office told us that they wouldn't even see my daughter for her timely checkups unless she followed the vaccine schedule. We were going to deny a few vaccines, and this is what they told us.

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That's because they lose a ton of bonus money from insurance companies if they have low vaccination rates.

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Or, the doctor is providing what he believes to be sound medical advice.

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I may have believed before COVID that many doctors were just misinformed. Sadly, the profession is so corrupt now that just a small percentage can be trusted.

KidDoc said:

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eric76 said:

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I have my annual doctor's appointment in the morning for a blood test to have my thyroid hormones measured.

Since I'm not sick, this would be a good time for vaccinations. Any suggestions as to what vaccinations I should ask for?

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Likely none unless over 50 and haven't had a tetanus in 10 years.

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I had a tetanus booser about eight or nine years ago.

I've asked for a shingles vaccination, but they don't seem to keep the vaccine on hand.

I don't know if I have ever had a measles vaccination. If I did, it would have been around 1972 or so. How long is the measles vaccination good for?

I've had the two pneumonia vaccines. It was a little ahead of schedule but they went ahead since I asked for them.

eric76 said:

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KidDoc said:

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eric76 said:

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I have my annual doctor's appointment in the morning for a blood test to have my thyroid hormones measured.

Since I'm not sick, this would be a good time for vaccinations. Any suggestions as to what vaccinations I should ask for?

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Likely none unless over 50 and haven't had a tetanus in 10 years.

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I had a tetanus booser about eight or nine years ago.

I've asked for a shingles vaccination, but they don't seem to keep the vaccine on hand.

I don't know if I have ever had a measles vaccination. If I did, it would have been around 1972 or so. How long is the measles vaccination good for?

I've had the two pneumonia vaccines. It was a little ahead of schedule but they went ahead since I asked for them.

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For most people measles immunity is lifelong. USA started in 1963 so you are likely immune. I find it easier to just get the vaccines at pharmacies they always have them in stock and you usually get a free cash coupon.

I got mine back in 73 or so and when tested for residency in 1999 was still immune.

IIIHorn said:

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SociallyConditionedAg said:

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That's because they lose a ton of bonus money from insurance companies if they have low vaccination rates.

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Or, the doctor is providing what he believes to be sound medical advice.

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There is a 1% chance that you will die in an auto accident over your lifetime. How many anti-vaxers are still driving around in autos.

doubledog said:

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IIIHorn said:

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SociallyConditionedAg said:

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That's because they lose a ton of bonus money from insurance companies if they have low vaccination rates.

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Or, the doctor is providing what he believes to be sound medical advice.

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There is a 1% chance that you will die in an auto accident over your lifetime. How many anti-vaxers are still driving around in autos.

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Humans are really, really bad at relative risk assessment. The best example is how many people fear traveling by plane as opposed to by car. Almost nobody is afraid of riding in a car but fear of flying is one of the more common phobias in modern society, despite the fact that objectively that's ridiculous. Driving is exponentially more dangerous than flying and flying is the safest form of travel that will ever exist in any of our lifetimes. And this poor relative risk assessment capacity is especially true when one of our options involves actively doing something that carries risk vs passively accepting risk.

If actively doing something carries a 0.001% risk of a bad outcome, and not doing something carries a 1% risk of the same outcome, most people will still perceive the choice that involves action on their part as more risky. This is because bad outcomes caused by things we actively do carries a perceived greater cognitive risk/impact than those caused by not doing the thing.

So the prospect of your kid having an adverse reaction to a vaccine, no matter how unlikely it was, is perceived by many as MUCH worse and creates a feeling of greater risk than any potential adverse reactions to the disease in question. If they get it from the disease, well it's the diseases fault. If give them the vaccine it's MY fault. And the relative risks of either outcome really don't matter if you think that way.

Infection_Ag11 said:

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This thread is depressing

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The conspiracy theorist would say you should be happy for more business!

KidDoc said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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This thread is depressing

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The conspiracy theorist would say you should be happy for more business!

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This is not genuine. I can almost guarantee that the majority of your business comes from fully vaccinated patients who have parents with fever phobia, rash phobia and run to the doctor for every little thing. That and well visits where you are giving vaccines.

01agtx said:

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KidDoc said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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This thread is depressing

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The conspiracy theorist would say you should be happy for more business!

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This is not genuine. I can almost guarantee that the majority of your business comes from fully vaccinated patients who have parents with fever phobia, rash phobia and run to the doctor for every little thing. That and well visits where you are giving vaccines.

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True but I'm not an infectious disease specialist.

I stated an alternative motive for the doctor's recommendation other than the alleged kickbacks. It was not my intention to provide an opinion on the viability of his advice.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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why should you be concerned if your neighbor decides not to get their kids vaccinated for the measles?

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It's called herd immunity. If the virus spreads, sometimes even vaccinated kids will get it. But if everyone is vaccinated, the spread is stopped.

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Does heard immunity provide a deterrent against the spread of vaccine conspiracy gossip?

IIIHorn said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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why should you be concerned if your neighbor decides not to get their kids vaccinated for the measles?

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It's called herd immunity. If the virus spreads, sometimes even vaccinated kids will get it. But if everyone is vaccinated, the spread is stopped.

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Does heard immunity provide a deterrent against the spread of vaccine conspiracy gossip?

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I believe it is called overheard immunity

Burdizzo said:

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IIIHorn said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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why should you be concerned if your neighbor decides not to get their kids vaccinated for the measles?

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It's called herd immunity. If the virus spreads, sometimes even vaccinated kids will get it. But if everyone is vaccinated, the spread is stopped.

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Does heard immunity provide a deterrent against the spread of vaccine conspiracy gossip?

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I believe it is called overheard immunity

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Ha!
Genius response.

I can't speak for every clinic in America, but at my wife's clinic (Family Medicine), they lose money on their vaccines. Keep in mind that clinics have to buy the vaccines before they give them to you. The reimbursement rate from insurances, Medicaid and Medicare is not what you think it is. The clinic frequently pays more for their vaccine stock than they recoup.
Clinics are not getting rich off these things or kickbacks like some on this thread propose. They're happy just to break even honestly.

damiond said:

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vaccines make weak people

and make rich people

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What??? And 25 people starred this.

rjhtamu said:

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I can't speak for every clinic in America, but at my wife's clinic (Family Medicine), they lose money on their vaccines. Keep in mind that clinics have to buy the vaccines before they give them to you. The reimbursement rate from insurances, Medicaid and Medicare is not what you think it is. The clinic frequently pays more for their vaccine stock than they recoup.
Clinics are not getting rich off these things or kickbacks like some on this thread propose. They're happy just to break even honestly.

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So they're in business to lose money... All for the public good I am sure.

Vaccinations make a small part of the revenue of family medicine is what he's telling you.

Teslag said:

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Vaccinations make a small part of the revenue of family medicine is what he's telling you.

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He's telling us they lose money on vaccines. CVS and Walgreens loses money too on the vaccines they provide?

That's most likely nonsense, but ok. I don't even care about the old vaccines that we grew up with.

Tell me the lost money on the covid vaccine with a straight face..

Big drugstores probably don't because unlike a small medical office they are buying vaccines in bulk with favorable pricing and their cost to administer is lower since they don't have full time providers and support staff. They just need someone who can administer the shot.

Woods Ag said:

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rjhtamu said:

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I can't speak for every clinic in America, but at my wife's clinic (Family Medicine), they lose money on their vaccines. Keep in mind that clinics have to buy the vaccines before they give them to you. The reimbursement rate from insurances, Medicaid and Medicare is not what you think it is. The clinic frequently pays more for their vaccine stock than they recoup.
Clinics are not getting rich off these things or kickbacks like some on this thread propose. They're happy just to break even honestly.

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So they're in business to lose money... All for the public good I am sure.

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Where does the post say that the clinic is in the business of losing money?

IIIHorn said:

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Woods Ag said:

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rjhtamu said:

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I can't speak for every clinic in America, but at my wife's clinic (Family Medicine), they lose money on their vaccines. Keep in mind that clinics have to buy the vaccines before they give them to you. The reimbursement rate from insurances, Medicaid and Medicare is not what you think it is. The clinic frequently pays more for their vaccine stock than they recoup.
Clinics are not getting rich off these things or kickbacks like some on this thread propose. They're happy just to break even honestly.

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So they're in business to lose money... All for the public good I am sure.

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Where does the post say that the clinic is in the business of losing money?

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"they lose money on their vaccines"

I think the whole post pretty much says it except the last sentence that reads "They are happy just to break even.."

Woods Ag said:

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IIIHorn said:

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Woods Ag said:

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rjhtamu said:

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I can't speak for every clinic in America, but at my wife's clinic (Family Medicine), they lose money on their vaccines. Keep in mind that clinics have to buy the vaccines before they give them to you. The reimbursement rate from insurances, Medicaid and Medicare is not what you think it is. The clinic frequently pays more for their vaccine stock than they recoup.
Clinics are not getting rich off these things or kickbacks like some on this thread propose. They're happy just to break even honestly.

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So they're in business to lose money... All for the public good I am sure.

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Where does the post say that the clinic is in the business of losing money?

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"they lose money on their vaccines"

I think the whole post pretty much says it except the last sentence that reads "They are happy just to break even.."

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It is a Family Clinic. Not a vaccine clinic. Administering vaccines is not their primary service and would have a negligible impact on revenue.

Woods Ag said:

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Teslag said:

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Vaccinations make a small part of the revenue of family medicine is what he's telling you.

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He's telling us they lose money on vaccines. CVS and Walgreens loses money too on the vaccines they provide?

That's most likely nonsense, but ok. I don't even care about the old vaccines that we grew up with.

Tell me the lost money on the covid vaccine with a straight face..

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Considering a vaccination for stuff like flu is $5-10 (depending on the vaccine) at CVSgreens, I am not shocked if the distributor/administor loses money on it.

IIIHorn said:

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Woods Ag said:

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IIIHorn said:

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Woods Ag said:

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rjhtamu said:

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I can't speak for every clinic in America, but at my wife's clinic (Family Medicine), they lose money on their vaccines. Keep in mind that clinics have to buy the vaccines before they give them to you. The reimbursement rate from insurances, Medicaid and Medicare is not what you think it is. The clinic frequently pays more for their vaccine stock than they recoup.
Clinics are not getting rich off these things or kickbacks like some on this thread propose. They're happy just to break even honestly.

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So they're in business to lose money... All for the public good I am sure.

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Where does the post say that the clinic is in the business of losing money?

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"they lose money on their vaccines"

I think the whole post pretty much says it except the last sentence that reads "They are happy just to break even.."

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It is a Family Clinic. Not a vaccine clinic. Administering vaccines is not their primary service and would have a negligible impact on revenue.

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I understand that but losing money and very small slice of their business are two different things.

If it loses money, jsut give it up to Walgreens and CVS. Doctors offices are already struggling so much to turn a profit how do they have room for negative contributions? That's what I hear anyways.

I'm not in charge of ordering vaccines for my clinic but as mentioned it is a problem of storing, administration, and vaccines expiring. For commercial insurance the clinic has to pre-purchase whatever vaccine they think they are going to need. If they happen to overbuy and they expire or the fridge goes bad that is lost $$$.

For Medicaid (I dunno about medicare) the vaccines are delivered to the clinic for free. They must be stored in a separate monitored by sensors fridge. There is no financial risk for these vaccines as the state is taking the risk instead. This includes underinsured patients and cash pay (Vaccines for Children).

From my contract which is quality & productivity base I get no benefit from vaccination. In fact I make more by billing for extra time to discuss the risk v benefit of the various vaccines with vaccine hesitant families.