UPS MD-11 crash Louisville

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Rapier108
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10:49p, 11/4/25
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
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deddog
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In reply to atmtws • 10:51p, 11/4/25
AG
atmtws said:

Geez, those poor pilots.

Dang.
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mjschiller
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10:51p, 11/4/25
AG
Rapier108 - why not?
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deddog
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In reply to Rapier108 • 10:53p, 11/4/25
AG
Rapier108 said:

So the engine separated , fuel caught fire, and the plane rolled left?

A lot like AA191, weird was just reading about that yesterday.
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Rapier108
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In reply to mjschiller • 10:55p, 11/4/25
mjschiller said:
Rapier108 - why not?

Not everything is some kind of damned conspiracy and there is no proof it was anything nefarious.

Also, see HollywoodBQ's request on page 2.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
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Rapier108
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In reply to deddog • 10:58p, 11/4/25
deddog said:
Rapier108 said:

So the engine separated , fuel caught fire, and the plane rolled left?

A lot like AA191, weird was just reading about that yesterday.

That's what it looks like, although it didn't seem to roll left until the very end, although they never got very much if any real altitude, perhaps 50-100 feet at most. The left wing likely tore into that UPS building and rolled it over. The real question will be why and thankfully the NTSB is very good at figuring that out.

Since it left a ton of debris on the runway, including the engine, they will have a very good place to start in their investigation.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
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titan
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In reply to deddog • 10:58p, 11/4/25
S
deddog said:
atmtws said:

Geez, those poor pilots.

Dang.

If you ever wanted to imagine what it would have been like to somehow capture the moment because you standing on the ground in front of it as that plane hit the Pentagon , this is pretty close. Tree-clipping low and crashing along a horizontal line. Except for this is of course completely out of control.
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mjschiller
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10:59p, 11/4/25
AG
Rapier108 - I asked a question. Could it have been? Hope not. With all the evil in our country today nothing is safe.
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SupermachJM
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11:20p, 11/4/25
I'm hearing that the engine had been worked on but they may have pushed the repair to get the crew on their way to HNL before they timed out. Not sure if that would make sense since they're in SDF so they easily could have gotten another reserve crew.

MD-11 protocol with one engine fire at or after V1 is to climb out and fight the fire in the air. There's also a protocol for if a second engine goes out after they are airborne, but losing 2 of them after V1 before being airborne is basically a death sentence.

They would have had somewhere between 120,000 and 140,000 lbs of fuel on board plus a full load of cargo leaving the hub for the flight to Hawaii. So perfect storm if they were heavy and lost 2 engines.
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titan
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11:22p, 11/4/25
S

Another factor is what appears to have been the low altitude when it happened. Not alot of time to compensate for the sudden shifts engine losses create even if had enough lift left, which looks doubtful.
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91AggieLawyer
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In reply to Aggie95 • 12:22a, 11/5/25
AG
Aggie95 said:
Crazy that if it was a maintenance or repair issue it didn't show up right away


But that's exactly what happened with the AA 191 plane. The force of the impact from the forklift pushing the engine back into the pylon, instead of taking down the complete pylon as the OEM recommended, caused a crack to develop. The crack expanded over time (~2 mos??) and eventually broke.

I can't recall the name of the part that developed the crack. Anyway, had that (the failure) happened on landing rather than takeoff, the plane would have likely skidded off the runway, deployed the slides, and the worst injuries would have been lower leg injuries.
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Jetpilot86
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In reply to FDXAg • 1:46a, 11/5/25
AG
FDXAg said:
We do have a UPS pilot that posts on Texags....I believe his username is Jetpilot86 or something like that??

That's amazing video and very sad. Prayers to the pilots and families of the victims.


That would be me. I was riding to CGN when this happened and the operating Captain told me about some radio chatter on the emergency frequency about an incident with a UPS aircraft. Needless to say my phone was blowing up as soon as we landed.

I have heard most of the speculation that has been mentioned here, and elsewhere, as well as a few other unconfirmed rumors. I was acquainted with one of the crew.

A few quick things: this happened after the reached V1, or the Accelerate-go speed. It's the spot on the runway where we can still takeoff, but can no longer stop on the available pavement. Before that speed, you stop on the runway; after that speed, you climb to at least 1000' and deal with it then. That does include carrying an engine on fire to 1000' before fighting it. The aircraft will handle it.

Now IF the engine ripped itself off the airplane like AA191 did a few decades ago, all bets are off as collateral damage could quickly make the plane unable to be controlled. The video easily leads in this direction so far, but it will be 12-18 months before the NTSB finishes their investigation and the probable cause is determined.

Expect me to be pretty quiet about this until the report is released.

Edit: fix the AA flight number.
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Jetpilot86
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In reply to HollywoodBQ • 1:48a, 11/5/25
AG
HollywoodBQ said:
***** REQUEST *****

Please remember that there are folks on this board who will be very close to this (As in - most likely know the pilots close)

Let's try to keep the comments and speculation a little more on the rails than we did with the Air India 787 crash thread.

Thanks and Gig 'Em!


Yes, I'm one of them. Thanks!
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Jetpilot86
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In reply to FireAg • 1:49a, 11/5/25
AG
FireAg said:
That's him…anyone heard from him this evening?

Was on the way to Germany when it happened
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Jetpilot86
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In reply to HollywoodBQ • 1:50a, 11/5/25
AG
HollywoodBQ said:
JB!98 said:
HollywoodBQ said:
***** REQUEST *****

Please remember that there are folks on this board who will be very close to this (As in - most likely know the pilots close)

Let's try to keep the comments and speculation a little more on the rails than we did with the Air India 787 crash thread.

Thanks and Gig 'Em!

This is rather ominous. Please tell me it was not a poster on this board or an AG. It is really horrible whomever it was, but man I sure hope it was not "one of us."
It's not our poster, he flies 747s. Even visited me in Sydney once.

But, these are his colleagues.

I lost one of my direct reports in a small plane crash 2 years ago in Arizona.

Notifying my other direct reports about the loss was tough and we're just IT nerds, not aviators.


I'm checking in ok.
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sts7049
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In reply to deddog • 4:23a, 11/5/25
AG
deddog said:
atmtws said:

Geez, those poor pilots.

Dang.

oof. that is an unreal video to watch. to know just at the end of that video those poor souls lost their lives.
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ts5641
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In reply to aginlakeway • 5:50a, 11/5/25
That's a devastating crash! Scary *****
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torrid
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In reply to Rapier108 • 6:44a, 11/5/25
AG
Rapier108 said:
Looks like catastrophic left engine failure. Probably happened after V1 and they were committed to the sky.

Hard to tell from the video, but it looks like the plane is nose up and maybe slightly off the ground but obviously not gaining any altitude. I guess at that point they had to go with their training. Even if they had managed to set it down, they're going fast and at the end of the runway.
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HollywoodBQ
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In reply to Jetpilot86 • 6:54a, 11/5/25
AG
Jetpilot86 said:
HollywoodBQ said:
JB!98 said:
HollywoodBQ said:
***** REQUEST *****

Please remember that there are folks on this board who will be very close to this (As in - most likely know the pilots close)

Let's try to keep the comments and speculation a little more on the rails than we did with the Air India 787 crash thread.

Thanks and Gig 'Em!

This is rather ominous. Please tell me it was not a poster on this board or an AG. It is really horrible whomever it was, but man I sure hope it was not "one of us."
It's not our poster, he flies 747s. Even visited me in Sydney once.

But, these are his colleagues.

I lost one of my direct reports in a small plane crash 2 years ago in Arizona.

Notifying my other direct reports about the loss was tough and we're just IT nerds, not aviators.


I'm checking in ok.
Thank You for checking in.
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Langley
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In reply to Jetpilot86 • 7:53a, 11/5/25
Prayers jetpilot
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agracer
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In reply to 91AggieLawyer • 8:01a, 11/5/25
AG
91AggieLawyer said:
Aggie95 said:
Crazy that if it was a maintenance or repair issue it didn't show up right away


But that's exactly what happened with the AA 191 plane. The force of the impact from the forklift pushing the engine back into the pylon, instead of taking down the complete pylon as the OEM recommended, caused a crack to develop. The crack expanded over time (~2 mos??) and eventually broke.

I can't recall the name of the part that developed the crack. Anyway, had that (the failure) happened on landing rather than takeoff, the plane would have likely skidded off the runway, deployed the slides, and the worst injuries would have been lower leg injuries.


There was no impact from the forklift. The maintenance crew used the forklift to lift the engine and it was left over night. The hydraulics on the forklift leaked past the seals and allowed the engine to sag on the pylon. That's what started the crack that eventually led to the failure.

The use of a forklift to lift the engine for the particular maintenance they were doing was specifically not allowed in the O&M manual.
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Southlake
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In reply to mjschiller • 8:25a, 11/5/25
AG
mjschiller said:
Rapier108 - I asked a question. Could it have been? Hope not. With all the evil in our country today nothing is safe.

What an awful thing to ask.
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Rapier108
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9:10a, 11/5/25
Current update is 9 dead, 16 missing.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
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91AggieLawyer
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In reply to agracer • 10:59a, 11/5/25
AG
agracer said:
91AggieLawyer said:
Aggie95 said:
Crazy that if it was a maintenance or repair issue it didn't show up right away


But that's exactly what happened with the AA 191 plane. The force of the impact from the forklift pushing the engine back into the pylon, instead of taking down the complete pylon as the OEM recommended, caused a crack to develop. The crack expanded over time (~2 mos??) and eventually broke.

I can't recall the name of the part that developed the crack. Anyway, had that (the failure) happened on landing rather than takeoff, the plane would have likely skidded off the runway, deployed the slides, and the worst injuries would have been lower leg injuries.


There was no impact from the forklift. The maintenance crew used the forklift to lift the engine and it was left over night. The hydraulics on the forklift leaked past the seals and allowed the engine to sag on the pylon. That's what started the crack that eventually led to the failure.

The use of a forklift to lift the engine for the particular maintenance they were doing was specifically not allowed in the O&M manual.


I'm not going to argue facts, and ultimately it doesn't matter. However, here is a pic of bulkhead assembly showing a deformation in the metal. People can draw their own conclusions as to what caused it.

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insulator_king
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In reply to sts7049 • 12:36p, 11/5/25
AG
Here is the full video.

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pilot
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In reply to JB!98 • 1:35p, 11/5/25
AG
JB!98 said:
Dang, looks like the loss of the port engine shot FOD into the #2 engine. (Notice the flame at the rear). Poor crew was in a no win situation.


Sadly, this is my Monday morning QB guess as well. Catastrophic, uncontained left engine failure and separation. FOD into the tail mounted engine causing a compressor stall (hence the tail flames). Very likely those brave heros were down to 1 good engine. In the video that an airport worker shot from behind of rotation, as soon as the flames on the tail started you see the airplane settle….

Regardless, God bless those pilots and those injured or hurt on the ground. A harsh reminder that life is fragile…
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fullback44
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In reply to insulator_king • 2:44p, 11/5/25
AG
insulator_king said:
Here is the full video.


thats crazy
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Martin Q. Blank
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3:34p, 11/5/25
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BadMoonRisin
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3:50p, 11/5/25
AG
That's pretty crazy that they said it went 3 miles past the runway. It doesn't look more than 100 feet from the ground at any point and looks like it exploded shortly after the runway
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swood
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5:50p, 11/5/25
AG
Update from Juan Browne with info from the NTSB press briefing

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BadMoonRisin
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In reply to Rapier108 • 7:07p, 11/5/25
AG
Rapier108 said:
New press conference:

Impacted of 3 miles south of the end of the runway. (That seems kind of long.)

4 fatalities (3 from the aircraft)

All departures canceled for the night, but one runway is open if needed.

Asking people to not touch or take debris but report it to law enforcement.

Everything else was just local stuff, not about the crash itself.

Next press conference at 10:30PM.

The latest press conference posted above just said that it had enough altitude to clear the fence of the airfield, but crashed shortly after. The fire covered half of a mile.

How do they get impact 3 miles south of the end of the runway?
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Rapier108
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In reply to BadMoonRisin • 7:09p, 11/5/25
BadMoonRisin said:
Rapier108 said:
New press conference:

Impacted of 3 miles south of the end of the runway. (That seems kind of long.)

4 fatalities (3 from the aircraft)

All departures canceled for the night, but one runway is open if needed.

Asking people to not touch or take debris but report it to law enforcement.

Everything else was just local stuff, not about the crash itself.

Next press conference at 10:30PM.

The latest press conference posted above just said that it had enough altitude to clear the fence of the airfield, but crashed shortly after. The fire covered half of a mile.

How do they get impact 3 miles south of the end of the runway?

They got a lot of stuff in the initial press conferences wrong.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
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BadMoonRisin
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In reply to Rapier108 • 7:24p, 11/5/25
AG
Well that doesn't inspire a lot of confidence.

How do you mess simple facts up that badly? And if you dont know, dont share it.
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Who?mikejones!
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7:27p, 11/5/25
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Rapier108
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In reply to BadMoonRisin • 7:28p, 11/5/25
BadMoonRisin said:
Well that doesn't inspire a lot of confidence.

How do you mess simple facts up that badly? And if you dont know, dont share it.

These were local people, not the NTSB. The mayor couldn't get it right about the fuel and kept saying "250,000 gallons of fuel" instead of the correct 250,000lbs.

The NTSB didn't get on site until today.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
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