UPS MD-11 crash Louisville

43,751 Views | 364 Replies | Last: 17 days ago by 87IE
agAngeldad
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Rapier108 said:

TRX said:

Any audio from the UPS plane?

ATC or from the CVR?

They found both data recorders yesterday and they're likely already at the NTSB's lab being analyzed.

However, the NTSB is prohibited by law from releasing the audio from the CVR. Congress banned it after Delta 1141 because the audio was very bad for Delta and the pilots, so the airlines and ALPA convinced Congress to make it where only transcripts are released under certain circumstances.

Yea, you mean the part where they are talking about flight attendants and which ones they would "do"...
Rapier108
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agAngeldad said:

Rapier108 said:

TRX said:

Any audio from the UPS plane?

ATC or from the CVR?

They found both data recorders yesterday and they're likely already at the NTSB's lab being analyzed.

However, the NTSB is prohibited by law from releasing the audio from the CVR. Congress banned it after Delta 1141 because the audio was very bad for Delta and the pilots, so the airlines and ALPA convinced Congress to make it where only transcripts are released under certain circumstances.

Yea, you mean the part where they are talking about flight attendants and which ones they would "do"...

Yep
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
agAngeldad
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I was working in the tower at DFW that day. It looked really bad. Amazing that so many survived.
AgBQ-00
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AG
those were some tough years for Delta at DFW. 191 followed closely by 1141
God loves you so much He'll meet you where you are. He also loves you too much to allow to stay where you are.

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TRX
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AG
Rapier108 said:

TRX said:

Any audio from the UPS plane?

ATC or from the CVR?

They found both data recorders yesterday and they're likely already at the NTSB's lab being analyzed.

However, the NTSB is prohibited by law from releasing the audio from the CVR. Congress banned it after Delta 1141 because the audio was very bad for Delta and the pilots, so the airlines and ALPA convinced Congress to make it where only transcripts are released under certain circumstances.


I was wondering about the ATC since the audio of other planes in the area was posted.

The CVR law seems crazy, the public should be able to know what was going on. What are the certain circumstances?

ULTRA MAGA
agAngeldad
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AgBQ-00 said:

those were some tough years for Delta at DFW. 191 followed closely by 1141

Yep. I was on duty for both...
agAngeldad
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TRX said:

Rapier108 said:

TRX said:

Any audio from the UPS plane?

ATC or from the CVR?

They found both data recorders yesterday and they're likely already at the NTSB's lab being analyzed.

However, the NTSB is prohibited by law from releasing the audio from the CVR. Congress banned it after Delta 1141 because the audio was very bad for Delta and the pilots, so the airlines and ALPA convinced Congress to make it where only transcripts are released under certain circumstances.


I was wondering about the ATC since the audio of other planes in the area was posted.

The CVR law seems crazy, the public should be able to know what was going on. What are the certain circumstances?



Those audio files will be released only after certain protocols...
GAC06
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AG
TRX said:

Rapier108 said:

TRX said:

Any audio from the UPS plane?

ATC or from the CVR?

They found both data recorders yesterday and they're likely already at the NTSB's lab being analyzed.

However, the NTSB is prohibited by law from releasing the audio from the CVR. Congress banned it after Delta 1141 because the audio was very bad for Delta and the pilots, so the airlines and ALPA convinced Congress to make it where only transcripts are released under certain circumstances.


I was wondering about the ATC since the audio of other planes in the area was posted.

The CVR law seems crazy, the public should be able to know what was going on. What are the certain circumstances?




They release the portions of the transcript that they deem relevant to the investigation
pb488
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AG
the huge fireball erupts when the left wing hits those storage tanks at GFL environmental (circled in red). tire shop circled in blue for reference.




eta: here is a satellite view showing a number of those tanks knocked down/damaged:


91AggieLawyer
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AG
agAngeldad said:

AgBQ-00 said:

those were some tough years for Delta at DFW. 191 followed closely by 1141

Yep. I was on duty for both...


Holy cow.

I'll never get that guy on 114 in the car from Delta 191 out of my head.
Jetpilot86
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AG
91AggieLawyer said:

agAngeldad said:

AgBQ-00 said:

those were some tough years for Delta at DFW. 191 followed closely by 1141

Yep. I was on duty for both...


Holy cow.

I'll never get that guy on 114 in the car from Delta 191 out of my head.

I missed that by minutes driving home from work.
agAngeldad
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I made a mistake and saw some of the pictures from the crash and the guy in his car on 114. Something's you never fully forget.
JFABNRGR
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AG
4X super slow motion with AI interpolated missing frames.

“You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me.”
- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
91AggieLawyer
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AG
OK, so maybe I'm late to the party on this deal but the video from the dash cam in front of the tire shop (1-2 posts on top of this one) shows the road I initially thought it was near the airport perimeter. It is actually the road that borders the environmental company. Thus, the plane has already ripped through the UPS building and is coming down on the south/southeast side of it. There was speculation that maybe the wing might have done that to the building, but it appears it was the landing gear.

The plane was booking it. The pilots were doing everything they could to get airborne, and fast.
JFABNRGR
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AG
And amazingly all of the landing gear still appears to be intact even after ripping through the roof.
“You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me.”
- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
Kenneth_2003
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I drive through Louisville last night and stayed there.

It was a weird feeling with I realized that to get to my hotel, Google took my onto an airport perimeter road and I was only a few hundred feet from the UPS building. I turned left at the Ford assembly plant.

I've been on emergency and disaster scenes plenty. I've been there one behind the yellow tape. I despised lookey-loos. I felt like one of those just following my GPS when I realized just exactly where I was.
titan
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S
pb488 said:

the huge fireball erupts when the left wing hits those storage tanks at GFL environmental (circled in red). tire shop circled in blue for reference.




eta: here is a satellite view showing a number of those tanks knocked down/damaged:




Oh, so those are tanks. It looked almost like those transverse billboard screens near airports from this angle. So those are tanks -- -no wonder the fireball erupts as strikes them. So it wasn't its own jet fuel doing I guess.
Centerpole90
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AG
Quote:

I initially thought it was near the airport perimeter. It is actually the road that borders the environmental company. Thus, the plane has already ripped through the UPS building and is coming down on the south/southeast side of it.

You are not alone in that assumption. Blancolirio made the same mistake in his most recent video and misidentifies the street that dashcam video was taken from.

Can you imagine the bad luck - as if this could have been survivable anyway - but to come down on an oil recycling facility with a wing on fire? This is kind of stuff Gann wrote about in Fate is the Hunter.

Rapier108
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Quote:

LOUISVILLE, Ky. (WAVE) - On Thursday, Louisville Mayor Craig Greenberg announced that another person had passed away at UofL Hospital, increasing the death toll to 13. Greenberg also confirmed that nine people are still unaccounted for.

"I had previously reported that there were 15 individuals that had been reported as missing," Greenberg said. "We have located six of those individuals over the last 24 hours...If you do the math...we may have located all the victims. There may be more that have not yet been reported... Our hope is that we have located all of the victims at this point, but again, we do not know. The search will continue."

Captain Richard Wartenberg, First Officer Lee Truitt and International Relief Officer Captain Dana Diamond were identified by UPS on Thursday as the crew members onboard the aircraft when it went down.

The National Transportation Safety Board released the altitude and speed of the UPS plane that crashed in Louisville.

On Wednesday, the NTSB said that an engine detached from the UPS jet involved in the deadly Nov. 4, 2025, crash.

During a media update on Thursday, the NTSB confirmed that Flight 2976 was traveling at a speed of 210 miles per hour and at an altitude of 475 feet at the time of the last reading retrieved.

https://www.wave3.com/2025/11/06/ups-plane-crash-fatalities-increase-13-9-still-missing/
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
Jock 07
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AG
Just saw that kbtx is reporting one of the pilots was from Caldwell
frankm01
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Rapier108
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JFABNRGR said:

And amazingly all of the landing gear still appears to be intact even after ripping through the roof.

Landing gear is some of the strongest parts of the aircraft. Often times it and the engines are the only pieces still intact (at least somewhat) after a crash.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
91AggieLawyer
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AG
They keep saying the plane got 400+ feet of altitude. I don't see that in any video, but what is seen could be terribly misleading due to angles and distance. I'll ignore video for a second.

Go to the UPS building. Pulled it up on Google Maps street view. I'm going to estimate the building (2 story industrial) at roughly 40 feet high on the side. Add maybe a little more up top that may not be seen. Let's say 50 feet. Is that a reasonable guess?

IF so, the plane did a wedge through part of that building, which means the landing gear -- if it was the landing gear, and I think it was -- couldn't have been any more than 50-60 feet above ground. It goes higher and clears the rest of the building, but we see on the dashcam video I commented on earlier that it comes back down and crashes within 100-150 linear feet. In other words, just across the street. It certainly isn't anywhere near 400 feet in the air then.

When was the plane at 400+ feet? If it was coming down, why did it hit the FRONT part of the UPS building and not the rear -- or part closest to where it crashed? (Front part meaning part closest to the airport). Not trying to make an argument, just trying to reconcile what happened.
GAC06
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It appears that the end of the runway they took off from is 461ft msl. If the readings are barometric and not agl, that makes sense.

https://www.airnav.com/airport/ksdf

I agree that it clearly never got 400+ feet above the ground
insulator_king
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Here is direct link to the NTSB investigation, with the daily NTSB Press conferences.
https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pages/DCA26MA024.aspx

I'm very impressed with Inman and his briefings, as well as how he answers the questions. He takes it seriously, and speaks clearly and succinctly.
Jetpilot86
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GAC06 said:

It appears that the end of the runway they took off from is 461ft msl. If the readings are barometric and not agl, that makes sense.

https://www.airnav.com/airport/ksdf

I agree that it clearly never got 400+ feet above the ground

That is correct. If they got 50' above the ground I'd be surprised.
tk for tu juan
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NTSB B-roll with a drone view of the area at the end

Rapier108
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Quote:

LOUISVILLE, Ky. A persistent bell could be heard in the final recording from inside the cockpit of a UPS plane just seconds before it crashed, according to the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB).

<snip>

In an update Friday afternoon, NTSB member Todd Inman said investigators have a "working theory" as to what the bell could be, however he said it needs to be corroborated against data stored in the plane's flight recorder.

<snip>

He said investigators are going to San Antonio to pull those records and CCTV video to learn what was being done to the aircraft around that time. Inman called it a "laborious process," but explained the NTSB would comb through every single record tied to the plane with a fine tooth comb to determine what happened.

"If we find something that is of life safety or that is urgent, of making an urgent recommendation -- to date, we have not found anything that would indicate we need to take that action -- but we have no problem making that recommendation immediately when we find information that could help the travelling public and make them safer," Inman said.

https://www.whas11.com/article/news/national/ups-plane-crash/ntsb-update-ups-plane-crash-investigation/417-abccfdf5-6baf-41ce-a2be-0986a8b8020f

Quote:

The left engine caught fire and fell off sometime during takeoff, which can be seen on videos. But investigators said the pylon, which connects the engine to the wing, was still attached.

The confirmed the left engine is a focus area, saying, quote, "there is some form of cause, issue and concern."

https://www.wlky.com/article/cockpit-recordings-persistent-bell-ups-plane-crash-louisville/69290598

Quote:

During the press conference, Inman spoke about the recordings from the aircraft prior to and during take off. The cockpit voice recorder had two hours and four minutes of good-quality digitally recorded audio. The crew completed their standard check list and briefings in preparation for the flight and the take off roll was uneventful through the different speed call-outs.

Inman said about 37 seconds after the crew called for take off thrusts, a repeating bell was heard on the CVR, which continued till the end of the recording about 25 seconds later. During the time, the crew tried to control the crash.

NTBS will be reviewing the recording to make a transcript. That transcript will only be released once a majority of the reports about the crash have been released, which is expected to be in several months from now.

Inman also said the preliminary report indicated the altitude of the flight reached 475 feet, but considering how FAA ADS-B altitude is reported, that would equate to the flight only reaching approximately 100 feet above ground level.

NTSB said this would be the final media briefing on site.

https://www.wave3.com/2025/11/07/repeating-bell-sounded-inside-cockpit-seconds-before-deadly-ups-plane-crash-ntsb-says/

Sorry for using 3 different websites, but each one had different information that is pertinent to the discussions going on on this thread.

The part about the engine and pylon could be interpreted as either it was still attached to the wing, or still attached to the engine. I'll watch the briefing later, but I take it to mean the pylon was still attached to the wing. If correct, that is a different kind of failure than AA191 was, which took the pylon off with the engine.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
N8Dawg05
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AG
NTSB stated in the briefing this afternoon that the pylon was still attached to the engine when it separated from the aircraft. Sounds like the pylon may have separated from the engine upon impact with the ground based on questions / discussion and the end of the briefing.

ETA Juan Browne also has a new video up discussing the latest NTSB briefing and speculates about the condition of the hot end on the engine recovered from the airfield. He shows images from AA flight 383 in 2016. This was a 767 which experienced an uncontained turbine failure on takeoff roll. The turbine disc ruptured the wing tank and the ensuing fire totaled the aircraft, but the crew was able to reject the takeoff and evacuate (no fatalities).

Jetpilot86
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AG
UPS announced they were grounding their MD-11's about 30 minutes ago.
titan
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S
Jetpilot86 said:

UPS announced they were grounding their MD-11's about 30 minutes ago.

Precaution or do they think there is some design flaw? Isn't it more likely maintenance of that particular aircraft, or even that terminal was below par?
Jetpilot86
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AG
titan said:

Jetpilot86 said:

UPS announced they were grounding their MD-11's about 30 minutes ago.

Precaution or do they think there is some design flaw? Isn't it more likely maintenance of that particular aircraft, or even that terminal was below par?

They haven't said, nor are they likely to. May be getting ahead of the FAA, maybe not.
titan
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S


All of them? Yikes. I mean, does UPS have a bunch of different types -- because if MD-11's are some kind of staple for them, this means delaying massively many shipments with almost no warning.
AgCat93
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AG
titan said:



All of them? Yikes. I mean, does UPS have a bunch of different types -- because if MD-11's are some kind of staple for them, this means delaying massively many shipments with almost no warning.

UPS had gradually begun drawing down their MD-11 fleet for retirement.

I'd be surprised if they ever fly for UPS again.
titan
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S
AgCat93 said:

titan said:



All of them? Yikes. I mean, does UPS have a bunch of different types -- because if MD-11's are some kind of staple for them, this means delaying massively many shipments with almost no warning.

UPS had gradually begun drawing down their MD-11 fleet for retirement.

I'd be surprised if they ever fly for UPS again.

Didn't know that. So they are not necessarily in any crunch.
 
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