OKCAg2002 said:

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The tech in my Tesla is amazing, and it's a really great car. Lots of people who hate EVs have never driven one.

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How much of that amazing tech requires the vehicle to be electric?

Martels Hammer said:

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EV sales are going to come roaring back when the new Jaguar 00 is launched in 2026.





I couldn't find a pic of the car so I had to use the advert we all fell in love with.

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This picture was taken right before Pac-Man devoured everyone in the photo.

These Techno ag threads are gonna be funny in 10 years when half of new car sales are EVs. Range needs to climb another 20-30% and battery costs need to come down another 40-50% and that'll be it for most ICE cars' advantages over EVs. At that point, there won't be about reason to buy an ICE car like a corolla (though trucks will hold out longer).

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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These Techno ag threads are gonna be funny in 10 years when half of new car sales are EVs. Range needs to climb another 20-30% and battery costs need to come down another 40-50% and that'll be it for most ICE cars' advantages over EVs. At that point, there won't be about reason to buy an ICE car like a corolla (though trucks will hold out longer).

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I assume ICE uses Vans.

GeorgiAg said:

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95% + of the time, I'm just going to/from work or maybe grabbing lunch. 22 miles each way. The Tesla makes perfect sense for that. Basically, a really really nice golf cart.

I understand people have range anxiety and the hybrid is the solution for that. But range anxiety is really a non-issue unless you drive very long distances all the time.

One of the huge perks for an EV is getting rid of the inferior ICE technology. Gears, oil, coolant, maintenance, 100s of more parts to maintain. I'm not going for a hybrid.

I will always have an ICE/diesel truck for power/towing capacity. Family has a vacation house on the Georgia coast and have to tow jet skis and put in a large boat.

I don't think I will ever buy another ICE vehicle for my daily driver. I kept my Porsche convertible for fun every now and then, but I'm going to put all my daily driver miles on the Tesla.

And the self driving full service driving (oops) is absolutely amazing. Elon Musk drives and I listen to Bloomberg and drink coffee.

It's not a car, it's a robot. Every few weeks, the computer updates and I get more features.

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I can't wait for full service driving taxis to be fully adopted. Travel anywhere and everywhere catching autonomous taxis with an app.

Gamechanger

Farmer_J said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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95% + of the time, I'm just going to/from work or maybe grabbing lunch. 22 miles each way. The Tesla makes perfect sense for that. Basically, a really really nice golf cart.

I understand people have range anxiety and the hybrid is the solution for that. But range anxiety is really a non-issue unless you drive very long distances all the time.

One of the huge perks for an EV is getting rid of the inferior ICE technology. Gears, oil, coolant, maintenance, 100s of more parts to maintain. I'm not going for a hybrid.

I will always have an ICE/diesel truck for power/towing capacity. Family has a vacation house on the Georgia coast and have to tow jet skis and put in a large boat.

I don't think I will ever buy another ICE vehicle for my daily driver. I kept my Porsche convertible for fun every now and then, but I'm going to put all my daily driver miles on the Tesla.

And the self driving full service driving (oops) is absolutely amazing. Elon Musk drives and I listen to Bloomberg and drink coffee.

It's not a car, it's a robot. Every few weeks, the computer updates and I get more features.

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I can't wait for full service driving taxis to be fully adopted. Travel anywhere and everywhere catching autonomous taxis with an app.

Gamechanger

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Uber is currently reviewing the pogo stick market.

To me, this video really highlights the differences. If you imagine a situation where most people have EVs and an engineer tries to sell you on the "new" idea of an ICE vehicle, it'd be ridiculous.

https://instagr.am/p/DSvNOSvCEbq

It isn't utopia, but it is what's coming in the next decade. Home charging and better driving performance will push people to EVs when all else is equal.

Also, every conservative has a negative knee jerk reaction against anything green these days because liberals used omg climate as a dictatorial cudgel for decades, but there are actual, REAL benefits to it. Look at pictures of LA in the 70s or go visit Mexico City today. Smog and pollution are nasty and measurably reduce your quality of life. Fission + EVs is a much better future.

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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These Techno ag threads are gonna be funny in 10 years when half of new car sales are EVs. Range needs to climb another 20-30% and battery costs need to come down another 40-50% and that'll be it for most ICE cars' advantages over EVs. At that point, there won't be about reason to buy an ICE car like a corolla (though trucks will hold out longer).

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Real question, not a snide comment pretending to be a question.

What battery chemistry looks to be able to do what you think will happen in 10 years?

It was my understanding that the current lithium ion batteries only have one free electron per molecule to convert to electricity and that the other chemistries in proposed might have two, but at the cost of a much larger heavier molecule so getting a large jump in power density didn't seem likely.

Shocking.

How does the 2 teas theory relate to the EV madness?

bobbranco said:

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Shocking.

How does the 2 teas theory relate to the EV madness?

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Deputy Travis Junior said:

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It isn't utopia, but it is what's coming in the next decade. Home charging and better driving performance will push people to EVs when all else is equal.

Also, every conservative has a negative knee jerk reaction against anything green these days because liberals used omg climate as a dictatorial cudgel for decades, but there are actual, REAL benefits to it. Look at pictures of LA in the 70s or go visit Mexico City today. Smog and pollution are nasty and measurably reduce your quality of life. Fission + EVs is a much better future.

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Sure, but let the market take us there - not the government. We wasted the last 5-6 years on EV's based on b.s.

Ford bet wrong. $20B wrong.

I'm seeing more and more Teslas everyday in the Woodlands. I have been driving hybrids for over 15 (Prius's)years and now have a 2025 Camry hybrid and am very happy with it. It has a 500 mile range on a tank of gas.

If my wife was still working and had a 30 mile drive each way, we would definitely look into a EV for her. For me, it just depends on where one lives and driving requirements on if a EV was beneficial.

The huge advancements that are on the immediate horizon are in solid state tech. Solid state batteries have a much higher energy density so you can store much more power in the same volume. These will supposedly be a game changer (50%+ increase to range) and could enter production in the next 2-3 years. Tweaking the anode material and stacking cells will likely yield incremental improvements (say 15-30%). At the end of my 10 year window, you could see new chemistries, but that's more speculative.

I do not have a technical understanding of battery tech (just read the odd tech article and occasionally an analyst report), so don't take this as gospel.

Of note, the average EV had a range of 84 miles in 2014 and a decade later in 2024 that number had climbed to 283 miles. I don't expect that pace to continue, but even a 30-40% increase that gets the average to 400-450 miles is likely sufficient for most people. It's 300 miles from San Antonio to South Padre, 270 miles from Los Angeles to Las Vegas, 350 miles from Houston to New Orleans... You can do real trips with that range (and I bet in 10 years the average range is closer to 500 than 400).

If Chinese cars were allowed into the US market without tariffs, the domestic car companies would all fail and go bankrupt, including Tesla.

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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The huge advancements that are on the immediate horizon are in solid state tech. Solid state batteries have a much higher energy density so you can store much more power in the same volume. These will supposedly be a game changer (50%+ increase to range) and could enter production in the next 2-3 years. Tweaking the anode material and stacking cells will likely yield incremental improvements (say 15-30%). At the end of my 10 year window, you could see new chemistries, but that's more speculative.

I do not have a technical understanding of battery tech (just read the odd tech article and occasionally an analyst report), so don't take this as gospel.

Of note, the average EV had a range of 84 miles in 2014 and a decade later in 2024 that number had climbed to 283 miles. I don't expect that pace to continue, but even a 30-40% increase that gets the average to 400-450 miles is likely sufficient for most people. It's 300 miles from San Antonio to South Padre, 270 miles from Los Angeles to Las Vegas, 350 miles from Houston to New Orleans... You can do real trips with that range (and I bet in 10 years the average range is closer to 500 than 400).

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If you get solid-state battery in a car that is 25k, that will be a game changer and I do believe that is coming.

aggieforester05 said:

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EVs only make sense when they're significantly cheaper than their ICE counterparts. Their depreciation is worse and they're range limited. They make sense as cheap throw away commuter cars. They do not make sense as more expensive replacements for already expensive primary vehicles.

They suck at towing any distance, so they are not really viable as trucks for real truck people.

They lack driver involvement and sensory experience as performance cars, even if they have well above average acceleration for a daily driver. Most car guys will opt for an ICE car if shopping dedicated performance car that is not a daily driver.

Dirt cheap low energy cost commuter, yes, that makes sense.

Problem is, China is seemingly these only ones that can build that and I wouldn't trust my life in one of those tin cans.

Model 3/Y are the most sensible options at this point.

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I'd be at least mildly concerned about the electro-magnetic field daily drivers are subjected to, also. No data, just reasonable concern. I'd want reassurance I'm not being needlessly exposed to harmful levels of electric fields all day.

GeorgiAg said:

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95% + of the time, I'm just going to/from work or maybe grabbing lunch. 22 miles each way. The Tesla makes perfect sense for that. Basically, a really really nice golf cart.

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Been saying this for years.

All you EV evangelicals have convinced me.

And since it's such a great option - let's let the free market handle it.

Deal?

Maybe people stopped buying EVs because deranged libs were keying them?

bobbranco said:

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Ford bet wrong. $20B wrong.

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Yes, and that bet had the heavy thumb of Democrat policy making on it.

I drove a Silverado EV at the state fair last year. I liked it and might like driving one around town. But it couldn't replace my truck and they cost way too much. Never really considered one. My local gm dealer has had a sierra ev and hummer for months.

I will say that EV Hummer is actually kind of cool. I hated all previous versions of the Hummer and it was a POS vehicle. For some reason, I like the EV version. Don't know why.

The other factor is that 30% of the population lives in multi family units. We will never see mass charging deployed in those structures, for a multitude of reasons.

The climate also affects them. In very cold temps you lose a significant chunk of storage capacity. That could limit adoption up north.

I disagree on the 50% new car adoption over the next 10 years. I doubt it will be half that much at best. I think Toyota has the right idea which is hybrids.

I'll probably buy a Tesla as my next vehicle but primarily for the FSD.

Perplexity states that Tesla as a brand loyalty rate of 50-60% which means that 40-50% of Tesla owners replace their Tesla or add an additional var from a different vehicle brand. It will be interesting to see what brand loyalty looks like after EV subsidies are canceled.

By comparison, JD Power calculated Toyota's brand loyalty in 2024 at 62.5%.

No Spin Ag said:

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YouBet said:

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Hybrids were always the natural evolutionary next step from ICE vehicles. Biden and EU leaders manipulated markets to bypass that step in the name of mythological green energy and policy.

As a result, they have directly caused the average price of a new car to hit $50K in this country. Great job, Democrats. Yet again, making life unaffordable for average Americans.

FTR, I have no issues with EVs. They have a use case that makes sense for some. It makes sense for me. However, I would rather have a V8 sports car which will be my next purchase in 2027, if at all possible.

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Yeah, nothing beats the roar and torque that a V8 gives.

Whatever you get, you need to start an "EV" thread as an excuse to brag about your new ride.

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I switched from a V8 (Lexus GS-F) to an EV (Model 3 Performance) and while it doesn't "roar", it beats the ever living crap about of the V8 in torque and every other performance metric.

Farmer_J said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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95% + of the time, I'm just going to/from work or maybe grabbing lunch. 22 miles each way. The Tesla makes perfect sense for that. Basically, a really really nice golf cart.

I understand people have range anxiety and the hybrid is the solution for that. But range anxiety is really a non-issue unless you drive very long distances all the time.

One of the huge perks for an EV is getting rid of the inferior ICE technology. Gears, oil, coolant, maintenance, 100s of more parts to maintain. I'm not going for a hybrid.

I will always have an ICE/diesel truck for power/towing capacity. Family has a vacation house on the Georgia coast and have to tow jet skis and put in a large boat.

I don't think I will ever buy another ICE vehicle for my daily driver. I kept my Porsche convertible for fun every now and then, but I'm going to put all my daily driver miles on the Tesla.

And the self driving full service driving (oops) is absolutely amazing. Elon Musk drives and I listen to Bloomberg and drink coffee.

It's not a car, it's a robot. Every few weeks, the computer updates and I get more features.

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I can't wait for full service driving taxis to be fully adopted. Travel anywhere and everywhere catching autonomous taxis with an app.

Gamechanger

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I don't hate EV's.

But, trust me, I will hate anything I am forced to buy.

I have a related question: Why does every device we own have a battery strength level indicator except our ICE vehicles?

The public will adopt EVs if/when the technology makes sense for them to do so. People will gladly adopt an EV that is 20% better than an ICE car in terms of cost, performance, and convenience. Trying to bribe them to accept a car that is 20% worse will only go so far.