Quote:

---

It was pouring rain the other day while I was at HEB to get a few things. Everyone huddled at the entrance waiting it out. I didn't. I summoned my Tesla from the parking lot and it drove itself to the front of the store and picked me up. Too easy.

---

I have a Kubota tractor. And I have a 22 foot pontoon boat. Can you drive the boat to Arkansas in less than 6 hours? The Hubs would love for you to do that, BTW. He has a one ton.

I answered in another post, but feel free to talk about vaccines in a thread about cars and batteries.

OKCAg2002 said:

---

I drive a Tesla, and I love it. That said, I completely understand why people hate on EVs. But I don't understand how the general consensus is to celebrate their demise. The tech in my Tesla is amazing, and it's a really great car. Lots of people who hate EVs have never driven one.

---

we don't want to be forced to buy something. It's not the governments business.

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

OKCAg2002 said:

---

I drive a Tesla, and I love it. That said, I completely understand why people hate on EVs. But I don't understand how the general consensus is to celebrate their demise. The tech in my Tesla is amazing, and it's a really great car. Lots of people who hate EVs have never driven one.

---

we don't want to be forced to buy something. It's not the governments business.

---

Or be told by government what we can't buy.

Ag with kids said:

---

OKCAg2002 said:

---

Generally, I agree. But let's not pretend the government doens't subsidize a ton of things. More free market is the answer, but singling out the EV industry as the only automaker to receive a government handout is false.

---

What exactly are these government handouts that the other automakers are receiving?

---

How quickly you forget the auto-bailouts of the late 2000's, cash for clunkers, etc.

AustinAg2K said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

OKCAg2002 said:

---

Generally, I agree. But let's not pretend the government doens't subsidize a ton of things. More free market is the answer, but singling out the EV industry as the only automaker to receive a government handout is false.

---

What exactly are these government handouts that the other automakers are receiving?

---

How quickly you forget the auto-bailouts of the late 2000's, cash for clunkers, etc.

---

And that was a very bad idea. Do you have a point?

Farmer_J said:

---

GeorgiAg said:

---

95% + of the time, I'm just going to/from work or maybe grabbing lunch. 22 miles each way. The Tesla makes perfect sense for that. Basically, a really really nice golf cart.

I understand people have range anxiety and the hybrid is the solution for that. But range anxiety is really a non-issue unless you drive very long distances all the time.

One of the huge perks for an EV is getting rid of the inferior ICE technology. Gears, oil, coolant, maintenance, 100s of more parts to maintain. I'm not going for a hybrid.

I will always have an ICE/diesel truck for power/towing capacity. Family has a vacation house on the Georgia coast and have to tow jet skis and put in a large boat.

I don't think I will ever buy another ICE vehicle for my daily driver. I kept my Porsche convertible for fun every now and then, but I'm going to put all my daily driver miles on the Tesla.

And the self driving full service driving (oops) is absolutely amazing. Elon Musk drives and I listen to Bloomberg and drink coffee.

It's not a car, it's a robot. Every few weeks, the computer updates and I get more features.

---

I can't wait for full service driving taxis to be fully adopted. Travel anywhere and everywhere catching autonomous taxis with an app.

Gamechanger

---

I've never understood this. Why do I care if it's an autonomous taxi, or if there is a driver? Either way it's a taxi.

aggiehawg said:

---

AustinAg2K said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

OKCAg2002 said:

---

Generally, I agree. But let's not pretend the government doens't subsidize a ton of things. More free market is the answer, but singling out the EV industry as the only automaker to receive a government handout is false.

---

What exactly are these government handouts that the other automakers are receiving?

---

How quickly you forget the auto-bailouts of the late 2000's, cash for clunkers, etc.

---

And that was a very bad idea. Do you have a point?

---

The claim was traditional auto manufacturers haven't received help, but they would all be out of business if the government didn't bail them out.

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

It was pouring rain the other day while I was at HEB to get a few things. Everyone huddled at the entrance waiting it out. I didn't. I summoned my Tesla from the parking lot and it drove itself to the front of the store and picked me up. Too easy.

---

I have a Kubota tractor. And I have a 22 foot pontoon boat. Can you drive the boat to Arkansas in less than 6 hours? The Hubs would love for you to do that, BTW. He has a one ton.

---

I can with my diesel truck. And I have a center console bay boat. Right tools right jobs.

Much cheaper if you don't have to pay for labor.

AustinAg2K said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

AustinAg2K said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

OKCAg2002 said:

---

Generally, I agree. But let's not pretend the government doens't subsidize a ton of things. More free market is the answer, but singling out the EV industry as the only automaker to receive a government handout is false.

---

What exactly are these government handouts that the other automakers are receiving?

---

How quickly you forget the auto-bailouts of the late 2000's, cash for clunkers, etc.

---

And that was a very bad idea. Do you have a point?

---

The claim was traditional auto manufacturers haven't received help, but they would all be out of business if the government didn't bail them out.

---

1) They wouldn't be out of business. They would have reorganized under chapter 11 without govt involvement just like numerous other Fortune 500 companies have done. Counterpoint to my comment is that the credit markets were pretty tight, so maybe that doesn't happen, but we are speculating here.
2) Ford didn't get bailed out like GM and Chrysler. They levered everything they could, but they were not bailed out like you stated.

I've never paid more than $20K for a car. Couldn't care less about Tesla sales or F150 sales or any new car sales. I'll drive whatever is cheap and runs. You guys do the bickering. I'm laughing all the way to the bank.

john2002ag said:

---

AustinAg2K said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

AustinAg2K said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

OKCAg2002 said:

---

Generally, I agree. But let's not pretend the government doens't subsidize a ton of things. More free market is the answer, but singling out the EV industry as the only automaker to receive a government handout is false.

---

What exactly are these government handouts that the other automakers are receiving?

---

How quickly you forget the auto-bailouts of the late 2000's, cash for clunkers, etc.

---

And that was a very bad idea. Do you have a point?

---

The claim was traditional auto manufacturers haven't received help, but they would all be out of business if the government didn't bail them out.

---

1) They wouldn't be out of business. They would have reorganized under chapter 11 without govt involvement just like numerous other Fortune 500 companies have done. Counterpoint to my comment is that the credit markets were pretty tight, so maybe that doesn't happen, but we are speculating here.
2) Ford didn't get bailed out like GM and Chrysler. They levered everything they could, but they were not bailed out like you stated.

---

You are correct, but the point still remains that traditional auto manufacturers have receive government assistance.

Moon Shadow said:

---

1. One of my, In-Law, relatives drives a Tesla in Houston area.
2. All(?) Tesla's have an onboard camera.
3. His car was hit by another driver, who changed the incident's story's fault to the police. Reflecting the Tesla's owner being at fault. In law told the police, "My Tesla's camera has the entire incident recorded!"
4. Other driver potentially charged with a "false police report"!
5. He changed back to the truth!

---

Funny thing happened to me. Tsla has cameras in all directions so accidents are easy to find fault.

Once a car raced out of a turn on a neighborhood street, lost control, and ran over the neighbor's lawn causing a good amount of damage to her sprinkler. I sent her the video and had the guy's license plate. I am sure this helped her.

Another time, I was behind a car going on green, perpendicular car ran a red. Drove home to drop kids off, drove back. Flagged down the police officer and told him I had everything on video. Perpendicular car said he had green which was a blatant lie. Showed cop the video and that was the end of it.

My wife doesn't like tech, always thought she would drive an ICE. I got the MY when it first came out in 2021 and even back then was the best car I have driven by far even compared to my BMW X5. I bought a 2024 MY and even better than the 2021 version in almost every way.

Now I have a 2023 MY and will upgrade to a new MY when HW5 comes out. I drive about 35K miles/yr and have zero range concerns saving about 6K in gas and maintenance.
My wife has a 2024 X. My 17 YO has a bolt and will get a 2026 MY when she goes to college.

IMO, Tesla is superior to a similarly price ICE in almost every way including comfort. Similar to those blackberry people who thought the Iphone was just a gimmick. Eventually, the superior product will win out irrespective of incentives.

BTW, I can care less about green/energy/climate. I never qualified for any incentives or would even factor in to my decision. It is just a better care in almost every way for me/my family.

Medaggie said:

---

Similar to those blackberry people who thought the Iphone was just a gimmick. Eventually, the superior product will win out irrespective of incentives.

---

So which EV is the Android, if ICE is the Blackberry and Tesla is an iPhong?

Quote:

---

BTW, I can care less about green/energy/climate.

---

You've tried?!

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

It was pouring rain the other day while I was at HEB to get a few things. Everyone huddled at the entrance waiting it out. I didn't. I summoned my Tesla from the parking lot and it drove itself to the front of the store and picked me up. Too easy.

---

I have a Kubota tractor. And I have a 22 foot pontoon boat. Can you drive the boat to Arkansas in less than 6 hours? The Hubs would love for you to do that, BTW. He has a one ton.

---

Good point. Very good point. 0.000001% of Americans like you should never be all EVs.

I have been able to drive my 25 foot ski boat from Austin to LBJ and back without charging with the MX with still 100 miles left.

sam callahan said:

---

All you EV evangelicals have convinced me.

And since it's such a great option - let's let the free market handle it.

Deal?

---

Sure. Lift tariffs on lithium batteries and $25,000 300 mile range EVs from China. Yall think that the greatest force in the auto market is in support of EVs. It's the opposite.

California's unique solutions seem to now involve importing massive and growing amounts of electricity and forcing more gas stations to close on Jan 1. The single-party mecca of EV and energy politics in America.

Quote:

---

In 2014, a bill called SB 445 was signed into law that was laden with lots of uber-green goodies. One of the little-noticed provisions in the almost 12-year-old legislation goes into effect on the 1st of next month. The deadline to comply is, like, in two days.

Quote:

---

If you've hesitated to buy an electric car because it's typically easier to find a gas station than a charging station, California has a solution for you.

Fewer gas stations. And higher gas prices.

You may see a number of gas stations closing down in 2026 due to Senate Bill 445, which requires the owners of single-walled underground storage tanks containing hazardous substances gasoline, for instance to permanently close or replace them. The deadline is this Wednesday, December 31.

Back when SB 445 was signed into law by Gov. Jerry Brown in 2014, the deadline date at the end of 2025 probably seemed so far away that it couldn't possibly cause any political damage to the politicians who approved it. Now that it's here, all the current politicians can answer constituents' questions about local gas stations closing by solemnly pointing to the law and saying they didn't do it. See how this works?

Whether gas stations comply or close, the regulation's effect on California gas prices is to push them higher, either from reduced competition or higher costs passed through to customers.

---

---

And batteries/green energy won't save their grid either;

Quote:

---

CALIFORNIA IMPORTS MORE WIND ENERGY THAN IT PRODUCES

What a bill of goods these people have had shoved down their willing throats.

Right now, even with the sun shining somewhere and what renewables they have cranking away until the sun goes down and the wind dies off, over 10% of the California grid would be dark if they couldn't buy power from outside the state.

---

Can't refine or buy gas easily, and can't reliably charge an EV. What's a consumer/proletariat to do? Walk.

The single wall gas tank replacement isn't uniquely California. One example, Florida required it before California.
The deadline in Florida was 2009.

The bigger issue in CA is their unique gasoline blend requirements and their regulations on existing refineries which has been a battle long before EVs were on the scene.

https://www.gavinpsmith.com/new-ust-laws-require-pricey-upgrades/

And to get the thread back on track.

Yes. EV sales are dead in the water without the govt mandate.

I think there have been some really crappy EV's though which have been part of the problem. Importing a swath of crappy cheap Chicom/Vietnamese EV's would not long term help the perception there, too (some above had suggested this I think).

There are some decent/good (mass market) German/Tesla/Rivian EV's for those who want them, but pretty much everything else I have read about seem likely to long term turn customers off on the type.

Still, when even TSLA sales are off substantially for the year, I don't think many would claim it was a banner year at all. My swag is just that TSLA will wind up rebounding over time as the TDS-mania wears off on the leftist side of the consumer market, and the US2.5 etc. will dwindle in their share of the EV market, which might gradually expand toward 20-30 percent of total new sales (from around 8-10 percent today), if the electric grid on the coasts can actually be stabilized despite Democrats best efforts.

So if government gets out of the way, people do not want to buy EV's. Again, let the market dictate.

94chem said:

---

I've never paid more than $20K for a car. Couldn't care less about Tesla sales or F150 sales or any new car sales. I'll drive whatever is cheap and runs. You guys do the bickering. I'm laughing all the way to the bank.

---

If there were still options for hand crank windows I would take those.

Medaggie said:

---

Moon Shadow said:

---

1. One of my, In-Law, relatives drives a Tesla in Houston area.
2. All(?) Tesla's have an onboard camera.
3. His car was hit by another driver, who changed the incident's story's fault to the police. Reflecting the Tesla's owner being at fault. In law told the police, "My Tesla's camera has the entire incident recorded!"
4. Other driver potentially charged with a "false police report"!
5. He changed back to the truth!

---

Funny thing happened to me. Tsla has cameras in all directions so accidents are easy to find fault.

Once a car raced out of a turn on a neighborhood street, lost control, and ran over the neighbor's lawn causing a good amount of damage to her sprinkler. I sent her the video and had the guy's license plate. I am sure this helped her.

Another time, I was behind a car going on green, perpendicular car ran a red. Drove home to drop kids off, drove back. Flagged down the police officer and told him I had everything on video. Perpendicular car said he had green which was a blatant lie. Showed cop the video and that was the end of it.

My wife doesn't like tech, always thought she would drive an ICE. I got the MY when it first came out in 2021 and even back then was the best car I have driven by far even compared to my BMW X5. I bought a 2024 MY and even better than the 2021 version in almost every way.

Now I have a 2023 MY and will upgrade to a new MY when HW5 comes out. I drive about 35K miles/yr and have zero range concerns saving about 6K in gas and maintenance.
My wife has a 2024 X. My 17 YO has a bolt and will get a 2026 MY when she goes to college.

IMO, Tesla is superior to a similarly price ICE in almost every way including comfort. Similar to those blackberry people who thought the Iphone was just a gimmick. Eventually, the superior product will win out irrespective of incentives.

BTW, I can care less about green/energy/climate. I never qualified for any incentives or would even factor in to my decision. It is just a better care in almost every way for me/my family.

---

Almost everyone in the big anti-EV group on this thread hasn't OWNED one. Drive one for a few weeks and an ICE car feels like a horse and buggy.

It's better in every respect except if you want to drive 6 hours straight without going to the bathroom.

EV's are great technology but they are expensive and don't hold their value on the resale market.

hph6203 said:

---

sam callahan said:

---

All you EV evangelicals have convinced me.

And since it's such a great option - let's let the free market handle it.

Deal?

---

Sure. Lift tariffs on lithium batteries and $25,000 300 mile range EVs from China. Yall think that the greatest force in the auto market is in support of EVs. It's the opposite.

---

Sure. Let in EVs from the largest communist country on the planet with 200+ car manufacturers all backed by the CCP. If you didn't have the largest government on the planet funding it all, then you wouldn't have $25k 300 mile range EVs in the first place.

It's not free market when you don't factor how the product is sourced.

Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

---

94chem said:

---

I've never paid more than $20K for a car. Couldn't care less about Tesla sales or F150 sales or any new car sales. I'll drive whatever is cheap and runs. You guys do the bickering. I'm laughing all the way to the bank.

---

If there were still options for hand crank windows I would take those.

---

You know you're one step away from standing in front of your vehicle to hand crank it to start, right?

Quote:

---

It's better in every respect except if you want to drive 6 hours straight without going to the bathroom.

---

Range concerns are legit. You may take leisurely "refueling" stops, I don't. About 6 minutes, included offloading the CocaCola I slurp on the road. Recharging absolutely adds to travel time. Some may consider it inconsequential, some may not.

And it's easy to know, by just noting the ETA on screen before and after the stop.

No Spin Ag said:

---

Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

---

94chem said:

---

I've never paid more than $20K for a car. Couldn't care less about Tesla sales or F150 sales or any new car sales. I'll drive whatever is cheap and runs. You guys do the bickering. I'm laughing all the way to the bank.

---

If there were still options for hand crank windows I would take those.

---

You know you're one step away from standing in front of your vehicle to hand crank it to start, right?

---

Oooo! Username!

bobbranco said:

---

And to get the thread back on track.

Yes. EV sales are dead in the water without the govt mandate.

---

Yup. Everybody who wants one bought one before the incentives went away. Give it some time, some wrecks (any wreck pretty much totals an EV), maybe some new models coming out and sales will pick up again. Hopefully incentives will not, particularly if the Republicans stay in charge. (Paging lilhorn for the pun.)

Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

---

94chem said:

---

I've never paid more than $20K for a car. Couldn't care less about Tesla sales or F150 sales or any new car sales. I'll drive whatever is cheap and runs. You guys do the bickering. I'm laughing all the way to the bank.

---

If there were still options for hand crank windows I would take those.

---

Yeah. No more $500 to repair a window just so I could get my 2 for $5 BK sammiches.

cecil77 said:

---

Quote:

---

It's better in every respect except if you want to drive 6 hours straight without going to the bathroom.

---

Range concerns are legit. You may take leisurely "refueling" stops, I don't. About 6 minutes, included offloading the CocaCola I slurp on the road. Recharging absolutely adds to travel time. Some may consider it inconsequential, some may not.

And it's easy to know, by just noting the ETA on screen before and after the stop.

---

So, you arrive 10 - 15 minutes before I do on trips over 4 1/2 hours. And you have more options where to stop which is better.

But all of the Superchargers are placed in great locations with good food/amenity options. When you put your destination in the car, it tells you if you have to stop and gives you Supercharger options along your trip. As you get close to the Supercharger, it prepares the battery for fast supercharging. V3 Superchargers are 250 kWh. V2 Superchargers are 150 kWh. For all of my long-distance trips, I had to hurry up eating because it's already at or over the charge I need. They start charging you extra if you take up a charging spot after reaching charge.

Also, for a number of short trips, I'm faster than you. You probably don't have a gas pump at your house, so you always have to stop at a gas station to refuel. Unless I'm going long range, which is very rare, I never stop to refuel.

The Tesla keeps stats. 87% of my charging was done at home. $0.08 per kWh. Superchargers are at $0.35 per kWh. So about 87% of my refueling, I have no refueling delay - charges at night in my garage. I took 4 trips in the last 6 months where I had to use a Supercharger. I have 3 ICE cars I could have taken but none of them drive themselves, so I preferred the Tesla.

From November to March, gas drivers have to stand out in the cold and all year in rain to refuel while I'm refueling in my garage at night while I sleep for a fraction of the cost per mile compared to gasoline.

I've spent $180 on electricity to drive 5,000 miles. Zero maintenance except for tires, wiper blades and washer fluid. (I haven't had to do any of that yet.) I hardly use the brakes so that expense will be pushed way out.

If you have a wreck, you're better off with repair costs. And your insurance premiums are a little lower because of that, too. I have worse depreciation too.

So, it's a tradeoff. I love it for a daily driver. If I drove over 5 hours every day, it's not so good. That's like what, 1% of the population that drives that much, if that?

I'm not knocking ICE vehicles, I have 3, well 4 actually but one is for a kid and I don't want to drive that POS, lol.

YouBet said:

---

hph6203 said:

---

sam callahan said:

---

All you EV evangelicals have convinced me.

And since it's such a great option - let's let the free market handle it.

Deal?

---

Sure. Lift tariffs on lithium batteries and $25,000 300 mile range EVs from China. Yall think that the greatest force in the auto market is in support of EVs. It's the opposite.

---

Sure. Let in EVs from the largest communist country on the planet with 200+ car manufacturers all backed by the CCP. If you didn't have the largest government on the planet funding it all, then you wouldn't have $25k 300 mile range EVs in the first place.

It's not free market when you don't factor how the product is sourced.

---

Free market would dictate you exploit people making mistakes in manipulating markets. Do I want Chinese vehicles in the U.S.? No. But people claiming let the free market decide are being dishonest, because it's not a free market.

YouBet said:

---

GAC06 said:

---

No Spin Ag said:

---

YouBet said:

---

Hybrids were always the natural evolutionary next step from ICE vehicles. Biden and EU leaders manipulated markets to bypass that step in the name of mythological green energy and policy.

As a result, they have directly caused the average price of a new car to hit $50K in this country. Great job, Democrats. Yet again, making life unaffordable for average Americans.

FTR, I have no issues with EVs. They have a use case that makes sense for some. It makes sense for me. However, I would rather have a V8 sports car which will be my next purchase in 2027, if at all possible.

---

Yeah, nothing beats the roar and torque that a V8 gives.

Whatever you get, you need to start an "EV" thread as an excuse to brag about your new ride.

---

I switched from a V8 (Lexus GS-F) to an EV (Model 3 Performance) and while it doesn't "roar", it beats the ever living crap about of the V8 in torque and every other performance metric.

---

Sure, but I don't care to have a quiet, fast golf cart. I want the loud FU engine that is still fast as hell and fun to drive.

---

If you like loud and slower, have at it my man