GAC06 said:

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On the bigger thread of terrible EV takes

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Oh ya. The one where he posted daily updates 4 or 5 times a day while accusing others of being obsessed with EV's. I remember now.

techno-ag said:

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This is one of the reasons people don't like to engage in discussions with you on here. When it comes to EVs something just clicks inside you I guess.

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Next fuggin level irony right here.

techno-ag said:

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Teslag said:

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No one is disputing China is monitoring EV's. We are trying to get it through your head that it doesn't matter because they (and anyone else) could just as easily monitor and control modern ICE vehicles as well.

Basically it's a completely irrelevant argument but you for some reason you can't grasp that. At all. With any ability whatsoever.

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I will try again. Read the part quoted above. The Chi-coms specifically monitor EVs. They have a bureau for it called the Shanghai Electric Vehicle Public Data Collecting, Monitoring and Research Center. No one is disputing that ICE vehicles can't also be monitored. I know why you keep hammering away on that but that's the goal posts moving. ICE vehicles don't get the same level of OTA updates. Nowhere near as much. EVs are far more capable, more connected, have more cameras, etc. etc. etc.

My point stands. China loves EVs for a reason.

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YouBet said:

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Deputy Travis Junior said:

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It isn't utopia, but it is what's coming in the next decade. Home charging and better driving performance will push people to EVs when all else is equal.

Also, every conservative has a negative knee jerk reaction against anything green these days because liberals used omg climate as a dictatorial cudgel for decades, but there are actual, REAL benefits to it. Look at pictures of LA in the 70s or go visit Mexico City today. Smog and pollution are nasty and measurably reduce your quality of life. Fission + EVs is a much better future.

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Sure, but let the market take us there - not the government. We wasted the last 5-6 years on EV's based on b.s.

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Covid. Biden. The far left regime shoving down our throats with disdain and superior intelligence. Us conservatives are all just stupid and need to be told what's good for us.

hph6203 said:

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1. "I didn't say tariffs were free market."

2. "We should let the free market decide."

3. "We can't let China participate in that market."

See: 1.

I am not an advocate for the free market. I don't pretend to be. I don't agree with the subsidies for EVs, I think some aspects of the tariffs are good policy. I don't say let the free market decide like a mantra, because it makes what I say sound more rational or benevolent. That is what people that say "let the free market decide" are doing. Living in a fiction where any market is actually free. The governments of the world are involved in every market.

The free market only exists in textbooks.

Chinas low cost batteries and solar panels are not primarily a function of ongoing subsidization, it's a result of a foresight on their part that they would be a more viable future for their country and competitive globally and injecting tons of money into those industries to share the upfront capital burden and increase production. If all government interference in those industries stopped in China (to the degree they can), their cars would still be cheaper than the domestic versions and still cost competitive with ICE vehicles.

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Ok...you aren't an advocate for the free market. Noted.

Then, when someone posts "Let the free market decide", state that.

Say that you don't want the free market to decide.

Then, your next comment about tariffs on lithium batteries (that are mainly made in China) and allowing Chinese EVs into our auto market would make sense-ish.

Well, not really, because it appeared you were using your post as an argument in SUPPORT OF the free market to debate his point. Otherwise your post in response to his makes no sense.

BTW, their low cost on EVERYTHING is primarily a function of government support (or call it subsidization). Their labor is not technically slave labor, but it isn't that far off. Their "ongoing costs" are subsidized by that factor.

I commiserate with ya, brother.

You aren't either. That's my point. You claim to be in favor of the free market, because it sounds good, but your requested implementation is not free market. Not at all. The point I

hph6203 said:

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You aren't either. That's my point. You claim to be in favor of the free market, because it sounds good, but your requested implementation is not free market. Not at all. The point I

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I didn't even say I was in favor of the free market. I am, but I didn't claim it...

I'm pointing out that when someone says "let the free market handle it", then bringing China into the conversation is a complete load of horse *****

Why bring China into a free market discussion when a) they're not a free market and b) you're not an advocate for a free market?

Well, other than to do what you do on every EV thread...

Ag with kids said:

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hph6203 said:

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You aren't either. That's my point. You claim to be in favor of the free market, because it sounds good, but your requested implementation is not free market. Not at all. The point I

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I didn't even say I was in favor of the free market. I am, but I didn't claim it...

I'm pointing out that when someone says "let the free market handle it", then bringing China into the conversation is a complete load of horse *****

Why bring China into a free market discussion when a) they're not a free market and b) you're not an advocate for a free market?

Well, other than to do what you do on every EV thread...

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You can't have a true Free Market discussion if you don't throw in Soviet Russia, Nazi Germany and Narnia.