The Alt-Right is very stupid.

So are the cries of antisemitism when Americans question a foreign government (any of them), who we should in my opinion as an America Only person, not be giving a single penny or thought to.

flyrancher said:

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Do posters here differentiate between ethnic Jews and theological Jews? I understand that Sammy Davis claims to be to be a Jew. The ethnic difference between Jews and Muslims is very hard to identify. It is similar to difference between ethnic Greeks and Turks. Is antisemitism discussed here the hate of ethnic Jews or religious Jews or both? Just asking.

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The conspiracy theory that "The Jews" control the US government is a type of racism. That is the point.

The claim that the only reason we bombed Iran is because of those pesky Jews manipulating Trump into doing it is a racist comment, especially considering all of the very rational reasons for the US to wipe out the Ayatollahs. The fact that some people have trouble seeing that is super puzzling to me.

Severian the Torturer said:

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Phatbob said:

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This just shows that yes, there are antisemites on this board that are willing to admit as such, and they judge the events and politics of the volatile region accordingly. Much of the conspiracy theories involving Israel come from that, which is why buying into those conspiracy theories is functionally indistinguishable from antisemitism, though the overall intent may not be there.

---

You're using the word the same way homophobic and racist is used. It's just so you don't have to discuss anything.

There are very valid complaints against gays, racial behavior, and Jews. It would be like me calling you a "philosemite" and hand waving away your reasons for liking the Jews.

---

No, it's like using the term "racist" against Democrats who think Blacks aren't smart or capable enough to handle life without government assistance. It doesn't look the same as the KKK, but it still meets the definition and is still a wrong point of view.

When you are blaming things on Israel just because it involves Israel in any way, that is a skewing of reality entirely based on your bias.

FWTXAg said:

---

The Alt-Right is very stupid.

So are the cries of antisemitism when Americans question a foreign government (any of them), who we should in my opinion as an America Only person, not be giving a single penny or thought to.

---

Isolationism is fine.

Saying the only reason we bombed Iran is because Israel made Trump do it is not.

There is a distinction. Don't you agree?

BusterAg said:

---

Isolationism is fine.

---

Arguable.

We SHOULD be allies with Israel because:

1) They are a democracy.
2) They are in the ME.
3) The ME has oil.

The end.

There are plenty of cruel dictators in Africa, and we ignore them. But, put a cruel dictator in place in Venezuela, and all of the sudden the US is interested in that. Why?

Tergdor said:

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BusterAg said:

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Isolationism is fine.

---

Arguable.

---

Fair.

It is rational, at least, even if you disagree with it.

FWTXAg said:

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Stressboy said:

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jwhaby said:

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Stressboy said:

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jwhaby said:

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Stressboy said:

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I understand the want to criticize Israel the secular nation, BUT since half of the entire world's population of practicing religious Jews live there, it is hard for me to give these secular Israel haters a pass as it seems that israel and the faith are close to one in the same.

Also I laugh at the Jews control everything silliness.

There are only about 16million Jews in the world of 8.3 billion non Jews.

That is a population of .002%.

They don't control much and if they do have more than the regular Joe, it is because of their religion which teaches good financial decision making. That is why they are able to rebound time and again.

Let's take Israel's influence on the Middle East. They just happen to be the only consistent ally we have relied on for the past 50+ years in the region. Of course, we are going to lean their way in every dispute. Who else are we going to trust? The saudis?

You want to ***** about religious influence look at what the Muslims have done since they have figured out how to use their money and migratory patterns to conquer other nations.

The anti-Israel crowd are misinformed or they are just pushing evil.

---

Did you know that Bibi Netanyahu is secular and doesn't really practice the Jewish faith or keep its traditions?

---

Did you read my post that stated that half of practicing Jews are citizens of Israel? If the Jews did not want bibi they would replace him. The majority of ethnic Jews are not practicing. What does that matter to any of this?

Again, they are an insignificant population whose significance is only due to their better handling of money, and their nations position in the oil rich Middle East. Somehow that gets inflated in the minds of people who hate Jews that we do their bidding. We don't and when oil is no longer the life blood of civilization, we probably won't care about them at all other than we don't want them genocided out of existence.

Here is the bottom line: Just like the Hindus, the Jews are not going to kill me for being Christian, but the atheist collectivists and the Muslims would in a heart beat. Secular and religious Jews are not a big deal to me or to the world. Why are they such a big deal to you when there are so many worse threats?

---

I just read an article on how Jewish settlers in and around the Holy Land are attacking and killing Christians and destroying churches. I'm not a fan of this. If Israel is our greatest ally and defender of democracy and freedom in the Middle East, why are they allowing this?

---

If this is happening it needs to be addressed and harshly.

I never said they were a defender of democracy or freedom. They are our greatest ally against half billion Muslims who want us dead, and in keeping the oil flowing. If you want ww3 then just let the oil stop.

Strategically, they are our best lever and the power we have afforded them allows them to do the dirty work that the US government can't always do. If anything, they are our hammer as much if not than we are their protectors.

---

You know most Muslims are regular people right? You have lots of them living around you right now who don't want to kill you. Just like most Jewish people are good hard working people, so are most Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Buddhists, etc.

It's their leaders and governments who are corrupt, just like guess who…….. (drum roll)……….. Israel.

---

I have two very good Muslim friends (Bengali and Pakistani) and know quite a few others. Our software friend group includes a Hindu from India as well. We have had regular meetings for the last 7 years or so and I do a little consulting for one of them. All of these friends are entrepreneurs who might have come on some sort of program but got their citizenship and started businesses unlike the majority who are happy to work in an all Indian IT team for a major US corp.

My most Americanized Muslim friend is at every pro-Palestine, pro-Muslim protest. Does he just want to live a regular life, yes. But what he ingests from the Koran makes him someone that just might flip a switch if the right Imam told him to. I am a practicing Christian and we once had a discussion about our faiths. He shared his view and I let him know that just like Muslims think we are blasphemers, we think that Muslims are blasphemers as well. The difference is that Jesus teaches us that it is up to the individual to choose to follow him, while islam does not think that way.

That discussion shocked him, so we have stayed away from religion since then. The other one lives half a year in Pakistan and half here so that his kids get citizenship. Second child on the way. They will stay for a few years after the kid is born, probably because of all the immigration uncertainty.

He is a very bright young man in his mid 30s and very active as a business social media influencer. I don't know where he stands on his faith, but since I know that he is exposed to more extreme Islam and must adhere to a more rigid version in Pakistan, I wouldn't make him choose between me and another Muslim if we were drowning.

Is this view of mine jaded? Maybe, but I think it is practical based on what I know of the teachings of Islam.

Now back to your misguided view of Israel. First, geopolitics has zero to do with internal politics. That means who is running Israel, or who is president of the US. It is about geography, resources, and demography. When you look at Israel, other than the majority's ethnicity/faith, there is zero reason to pay attention to them. They don't have much in the way of natural resources and they are not next to nations that do.

But they are the only non-Muslim associated government in the region, so they are our only reliable choice as ally. Because of their intelligence apparatus (Mossad) and the military power we have given them (sans nukes), they can project their power into the places we need power projected.

If you only see it as us doing their bidding on these big dust ups, you are ignoring how much they do on our insistence. The times we don't have to fire a missile or send in a seal team or if we do, the times they feed us the intel to make a strike effective.

We protect them from being wiped out, and they help us secure the world's oil production by making sure those other hostile governments never become a true threat.

If you don't see the good in this symbiotic relationship then I think you are blinded by something other than the geopolitical partnership it is.

Ok, let's get to brass tacks.

Is saying that Israel dragged us into a war with Iran without providing any supporting direct evidence antisemitic?

BusterAg said:

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FWTXAg said:

---

The Alt-Right is very stupid.

So are the cries of antisemitism when Americans question a foreign government (any of them), who we should in my opinion as an America Only person, not be giving a single penny or thought to.

---

Isolationism is fine.

Saying the only reason we bombed Iran is because Israel made Trump do it is not.

There is a distinction. Don't you agree?

---

Is Israel the only reason Trump bombed Iran? Well I sure wouldn't think so.

Was it a factor? It's possible.

Does it help the state of Israel? I wouldn't know but I'd guess that it does.

Does it help United State citizens who are broke, disenfranchised, and have no hope for the future? Absolutely not.

I'll agree that even if it were all Israel's doing then I wouldn't blame them, I'd be doing the same thing. The only people we can rightly blame are the Oligarchs who run our Country on behalf of the elites, foreign and domestic.

BusterAg said:

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HollywoodBQ said:

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Could you please provide some specific examples before you charge the whole board?

---

I can.

First, let's ask a qualifying question.

Would you agree that saying that our government, or our president, is beholden to the interests of the Jewish state to the detriment of the American people is a form of antisemitism?

It is a claim that is often made without any credible proof.

Coleman Hughes talks with Rabbi Wolpe about how this is a weird form of racism in Conversations with Coleman in his 1-26-2026 episode.

My assumption is that this is a wide-held position, and everyone agrees that the conspiracy theories that the Jews control the world is widely considered to be racist.

If I show a bunch of posts where people say with no proof that our government did this or that solely because they are in the pocket of the Jewish lobby, can we agree that this is antisemitism?

---

Our politicians are controlled / owned by all sorts of people with the exception of those they are supposed to represent.

FWTXAg said:

---

The Alt-Right is very stupid.

So are the cries of antisemitism when Americans question a foreign government (any of them), who we should in my opinion as an America Only person, not be giving a single penny or thought to.

---

I don't think the Alt-Right actually exists any more.

FWTXAg said:

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Does it help United State citizens who are broke, disenfranchised, and have no hope for the future? Absolutely not.

---

This is a legitimate argument.

I respectfully disagree with you. I think that taking out Mullahs that are making 1,000 rockets a month in order to take the ME hostage is in the US's economic best interest. But, there is a rational argument about whether it would be better for the US just to let the entire ME burn to the ground or not.

Saying that the only reason why we bombed Iran is because The Jews told Trump to do it is racist, and it should be called out as such.

Those are two very different arguments, but some people like to mix them together to make one of them look more legitimate than it is.

Quote:

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Does it help United State citizens who are broke, disenfranchised, and have no hope for the future? Absolutely not.

---

Can we not deal in platitudes and deal with details? Who are these people specifically?

You realize that ignoring the global situation also does not help those people, but also creates a situation where our economy cannot help those people in the future. It's not as simple as you'd like for it to be.

BusterAg said:

---

Ok, let's get to brass tacks.

Is saying that Israel dragged us into a war with Iran without providing any supporting direct evidence antisemitic?

---

No, it's an opinion that may or may not be true or correct to an extent. Honestly, that argument has merit given how much influence Israel has on our gov't and based on Rubio's remarks after the first wave of attacks. It's not anti-semitic to think the Israeli gov't manipulates our gov't. How much they manipulate the US is the question.

Street Fighter said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

HollywoodBQ said:

---

Could you please provide some specific examples before you charge the whole board?

---

I can.

First, let's ask a qualifying question.

Would you agree that saying that our government, or our president, is beholden to the interests of the Jewish state to the detriment of the American people is a form of antisemitism?

It is a claim that is often made without any credible proof.

Coleman Hughes talks with Rabbi Wolpe about how this is a weird form of racism in Conversations with Coleman in his 1-26-2026 episode.

My assumption is that this is a wide-held position, and everyone agrees that the conspiracy theories that the Jews control the world is widely considered to be racist.

If I show a bunch of posts where people say with no proof that our government did this or that solely because they are in the pocket of the Jewish lobby, can we agree that this is antisemitism?

---

Our politicians are controlled / owned by all sorts of people with the exception of those they are supposed to represent.

---

I mean, I agree with your statement in isolation.

Is the reason why we protect Taiwan is because of the Taiwanese influence on the US government?

Is the reason why we are allies with Israel is because of the Jewish influence on the US government?

BusterAg said:

---

I mean, I agree with your statement in isolation.

Is the reason why we protect Taiwan is because of the Taiwanese influence on the US government?

Is the reason why we are allies with Israel is because of the Jewish influence on the US government?

---

I would argue that protecting both of these countries is what a significant or even a majority of US citizens want. I think that people that blame Israel for the US entering ME conflicts are incorrect when they lay the blame solely on Israel, but I don't think they're anti-semitic for thinking it. They see how much influence AIPAC has and how our entering the fight helps Israel, 2 + 2 = 4. Again, I think this is wrong but I don't think their opinion is rooted in bigotry.

93MarineHorn said:

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BusterAg said:

---

Ok, let's get to brass tacks.

Is saying that Israel dragged us into a war with Iran without providing any supporting direct evidence antisemitic?

---

No, it's an opinion that may or may not be true or correct to an extent. Honestly, that argument has merit given how much influence Israel has on our gov't. It's not anti-semitic to think the Israeli gov't manipulates our gov't. How much they manipulate the US is the question.

---

That argument has almost zero merit, because the case that the US has an economic and security interest to take out the Ayatollahs is so much more convincing.

You take that regime with their rhetoric and behavior and put it next to Venezuela, or Cuba, or Taiwan, or Greenland, or Poland, and we do the exact same thing.

Quote:

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Based on your statement - are Jews a race?
Damn good question. I assumed it was a faith. It's not listed as an Ethnicity or Race with any of the US Federal reporting like Hispanic, or Black, or Asian, etc.

---

Jews were never considered a race until the Nazis declared them to be one.

Ethnic group would be a more accurate description.

It also can be religious, but not all people who are Jewish by birth practice Judaism. Some have no religion; some are Christians, and others follow something else. There are also people who aren't Jewish by birth who have converted to Judaism so they're Jewish by practice.

Severian the Torturer said:

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Phatbob said:

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Severian the Torturer said:

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Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Glad to have you back BustUp.

---

I'll see you at Mass

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I don't understand the Catholic antisemitism correlation... I feel like there is some sort of weird deep down jealousy thing going on.

---

It's really all of Christianity until the Scofield Bible turned American evangelicals into supporters. Look at orthodox countries, look at the Protestant reformation. This isn't some niche Catholic thing.

---

Those damn Evangelicals. They don't even hate the Jews like us real Christians.

93MarineHorn said:

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BusterAg said:

---

Ok, let's get to brass tacks.

Is saying that Israel dragged us into a war with Iran without providing any supporting direct evidence antisemitic?

---

No, it's an opinion that may or may not be true or correct to an extent. Honestly, that argument has merit given how much influence Israel has on our gov't and based on Rubio's remarks after the first wave of attacks. It's not anti-semitic to think the Israeli gov't manipulates our gov't. How much they manipulate the US is the question.

---

Far more likely what happened is Israel realized it had the perfect opportunity for a decapitation strike on Iran.

Israel told the US what they were going to do and basically said, you can join us or not, but we're going to take them out. It was going to happen with or without us, so we decided to go ahead and kick ass.

BusterAg said:

---

93MarineHorn said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

Ok, let's get to brass tacks.

Is saying that Israel dragged us into a war with Iran without providing any supporting direct evidence antisemitic?

---

No, it's an opinion that may or may not be true or correct to an extent. Honestly, that argument has merit given how much influence Israel has on our gov't. It's not anti-semitic to think the Israeli gov't manipulates our gov't. How much they manipulate the US is the question.

---

That argument has almost zero merit, because the case that the US has an economic and security interest to take out the Ayatollahs is so much more convincing.

You take that regime with their rhetoric and behavior and put it next to Venezuela, or Cuba, or Taiwan, or Greenland, or Poland, and we do the exact same thing.

---

Ok, you disagree with their argument, but the points they are making aren't antisemitic. There is a long list of wars the US has started that have turned out to be disastrous. The argument that launching another one on a country that isn't much of a threat to us isn't crazy. Wondering why we'd so eagerly get into another ME debacle and questioning our governments' and Israel's motives is normal.

BusterAg said:

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93MarineHorn said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

Ok, let's get to brass tacks.

Is saying that Israel dragged us into a war with Iran without providing any supporting direct evidence antisemitic?

---

No, it's an opinion that may or may not be true or correct to an extent. Honestly, that argument has merit given how much influence Israel has on our gov't. It's not anti-semitic to think the Israeli gov't manipulates our gov't. How much they manipulate the US is the question.

---

That argument has almost zero merit, because the case that the US has an economic and security interest to take out the Ayatollahs is so much more convincing.

You take that regime with their rhetoric and behavior and put it next to Venezuela, or Cuba, or Taiwan, or Greenland, or Poland, and we do the exact same thing.

---

it only seems to be so much more convincing to you because it's what you choose to believe is true

93MarineHorn said:

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BusterAg said:

---

I mean, I agree with your statement in isolation.

Is the reason why we protect Taiwan is because of the Taiwanese influence on the US government?

Is the reason why we are allies with Israel is because of the Jewish influence on the US government?

---

I would argue that protecting both of these countries is what a significant or even a majority of US citizens want. I think that people that blame Israel for the US entering ME conflicts are incorrect when they lay the blame solely on Israel, but I don't think they're anti-semitic for thinking it. They see how much influence AIPAC has and how our entering the fight helps Israel, 2 + 2 = 4. Again, I think this is wrong but I don't think their opinion is rooted in bigotry.

---

But if they only care about it when it is Israel, but not really for any other similar situation, that kinda belies that point. Sure, one can make that argument that it is not based in bigotry on its face, but when that is the only exception to the entire rest of the world that operates similarly... it sure looks like the most plausible explanation.

93MarineHorn said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

I mean, I agree with your statement in isolation.

Is the reason why we protect Taiwan is because of the Taiwanese influence on the US government?

Is the reason why we are allies with Israel is because of the Jewish influence on the US government?

---

I would argue that protecting both of these countries is what a significant or even a majority of US citizens want. I think that people that blame Israel for the US entering ME conflicts are incorrect when they lay the blame solely on Israel, but I don't think they're anti-semitic for thinking it. They see how much influence AIPAC has and how our entering the fight helps Israel, 2 + 2 = 4. Again, I think this is wrong but I don't think their opinion is rooted in bigotry.

---

Thanks. That is a very clear answer to the question.

I just disagree with you.

The fear that Israel is dictating US policy in the ME when our actions over there are so easily explained as the US seeking their own best interests is just completely irrational. So much so that it is impossible to chalk that up as to anything less than bigotry, especially when many people who DO believe that Israel controls what the US does IS rooted in bigotry.

When the primary reason that most people share your view is that they are bigots, you need to make your case that your viewpoint is rooted in rationality to have any merit.

Rapier108 said:

---

93MarineHorn said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

Ok, let's get to brass tacks.

Is saying that Israel dragged us into a war with Iran without providing any supporting direct evidence antisemitic?

---

No, it's an opinion that may or may not be true or correct to an extent. Honestly, that argument has merit given how much influence Israel has on our gov't and based on Rubio's remarks after the first wave of attacks. It's not anti-semitic to think the Israeli gov't manipulates our gov't. How much they manipulate the US is the question.

---

Far more likely what happened is Israel realized it had the perfect opportunity for a decapitation strike on Iran.

Israel told the US what they were going to do and basically said, you can join us or not, but we're going to take them out. It was going to happen with or without us, so we decided to go ahead and kick ass.

---

I agree 100%.

BusterAg said:

---

Street Fighter said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

HollywoodBQ said:

---

Could you please provide some specific examples before you charge the whole board?

---

I can.

First, let's ask a qualifying question.

Would you agree that saying that our government, or our president, is beholden to the interests of the Jewish state to the detriment of the American people is a form of antisemitism?

It is a claim that is often made without any credible proof.

Coleman Hughes talks with Rabbi Wolpe about how this is a weird form of racism in Conversations with Coleman in his 1-26-2026 episode.

My assumption is that this is a wide-held position, and everyone agrees that the conspiracy theories that the Jews control the world is widely considered to be racist.

If I show a bunch of posts where people say with no proof that our government did this or that solely because they are in the pocket of the Jewish lobby, can we agree that this is antisemitism?

---

Our politicians are controlled / owned by all sorts of people with the exception of those they are supposed to represent.

---

I mean, I agree with your statement in isolation.

Is the reason why we protect Taiwan is because of the Taiwanese influence on the US government?

Is the reason why we are allies with Israel is because of the Jewish influence on the US government?

---

Not the sole reason, no. What is certain, politicians are generally dirt bags in it for themselves be it money, power, prestige or all three.

BusterAg said:

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theJonatron said:

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People can hate the government of Israel but not hate Jewish people just like we can hate the US government but love our country.

Saying America first is not antisemitic.

---

People that hate the government of Israel more than they hate the government of, say, Argentina are irrational, but we constantly hear about one but not the other.

News flash, the government of Argentina is 1,000% more corrupt.

---

the big difference between those two is that Argentina is not constantly spying and stealing our stuff. they also don't pick fights that we have to consistently finish for them.

hate to break it to you, but our federal government is influenced, heavily, from AIPAC. does that not count ass corruption?

why would you care if your neighbor is corrupt if they leave their corruption in their own home?
now, what about the neighbor that is influencing your family?

which one do you think the government of Israel is?

BusterAg said:

---

jwhaby said:

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Severian the Torturer said:

---

BonfireNerd04 said:

---

Severian the Torturer said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

theJonatron said:

---

People can hate the government of Israel but not hate Jewish people just like we can hate the US government but love our country.

Saying America first is not antisemitic.

---

People that hate the government of Israel more than they hate the government of, say, Argentina are irrational, but we constantly hear about one but not the other.

News flash, the government of Argentina is 1,000% more corrupt.

---

Do we keep getting dragged into wars by Argentina?

---

Which wars do you think that Israel dragged us into?

---

Iraq 91, Iraq 03, Lebanese Civil War, Syria for the past generation, Iran presently.

---

I was watching a clip online and these are conflicts that Charlie Kirk specifically mentioned. Then again, he was a raging Jew hater.

---

You got some citations to back that up? Kirk has thousands upon thousands of video online. Care to link to some video where he is being a Jew hater?

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I'll try to find the video. Kirk is the farthest from a Jew hater. That was tongue in cheek. I just wanted to point out that even Charlie had these beliefs about being drawn into conflicts, and I was daring someone to call him an antisemite.

sts7049 said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

93MarineHorn said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

Ok, let's get to brass tacks.

Is saying that Israel dragged us into a war with Iran without providing any supporting direct evidence antisemitic?

---

No, it's an opinion that may or may not be true or correct to an extent. Honestly, that argument has merit given how much influence Israel has on our gov't. It's not anti-semitic to think the Israeli gov't manipulates our gov't. How much they manipulate the US is the question.

---

That argument has almost zero merit, because the case that the US has an economic and security interest to take out the Ayatollahs is so much more convincing.

You take that regime with their rhetoric and behavior and put it next to Venezuela, or Cuba, or Taiwan, or Greenland, or Poland, and we do the exact same thing.

---

it only seems to be so much more convincing to you because it's what you choose to believe is true

---

1) We just took out Maduro a month ago because he was selling oil to China.
2) We just took out Iran days ago, and they were selling oil to China.

Why would we take out Maduro and not the Iranian Ayatollahs? Make the case that it was in the US best interest to take out Maduro and not in the US best interest to take out Iran.

Phatbob said:

---

93MarineHorn said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

I mean, I agree with your statement in isolation.

Is the reason why we protect Taiwan is because of the Taiwanese influence on the US government?

Is the reason why we are allies with Israel is because of the Jewish influence on the US government?

---

I would argue that protecting both of these countries is what a significant or even a majority of US citizens want. I think that people that blame Israel for the US entering ME conflicts are incorrect when they lay the blame solely on Israel, but I don't think they're anti-semitic for thinking it. They see how much influence AIPAC has and how our entering the fight helps Israel, 2 + 2 = 4. Again, I think this is wrong but I don't think their opinion is rooted in bigotry.

---

But if they only care about it when it is Israel, but not really for any other similar situation, that kinda belies that point. Sure, one can make that argument that it is not based in bigotry on its face, but when that is the only exception to the entire rest of the world that operates similarly... it sure looks like the most plausible explanation.

---

I can't think of another country in the world that has a similar relationship to the one we have with Israel. Seriously, give me an example if you can.

Maybe Taiwan, but they aren't constantly in conflict.

Phatbob said:

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Quote:

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Does it help United State citizens who are broke, disenfranchised, and have no hope for the future? Absolutely not.

---

Can we not deal in platitudes and deal with details? Who are these people specifically?

You realize that ignoring the global situation also does not help those people, but also creates a situation where our economy cannot help those people in the future. It's not as simple as you'd like for it to be.

---

Who are these people specifically?

2 or 3 years ago they were all mostly Trump voters, I'm not sure how many there are but I'd guess in the tens of millions, they thought we might use the trillions of dollars of waste we use to fund endless and needless wars across the globe (on piss ant countries that we could eliminate with the drop of a hat if we really wanted), fraud and abuse, and corporate welfare, but rather that we might actually better our Country here and now with all of that tax money, today.

They were all wrong, like usual. Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.

theJonatron said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

theJonatron said:

---

People can hate the government of Israel but not hate Jewish people just like we can hate the US government but love our country.

Saying America first is not antisemitic.

---

People that hate the government of Israel more than they hate the government of, say, Argentina are irrational, but we constantly hear about one but not the other.

News flash, the government of Argentina is 1,000% more corrupt.

---

the big difference between those two is that Argentina is not constantly spying and stealing our stuff. they also don't pick fights that we have to consistently finish for them.

hate to break it to you, but our federal government is influenced, heavily, from AIPAC. does that not count ass corruption?

why would you care if your neighbor is corrupt if they leave their corruption in their own home?
now, what about the neighbor that is influencing your family?

which one do you think the government of Israel is?

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Every country in the world that has the capability to spy on the US does, including Germany and the UK. Israel just happens to be the best in the world at spying, probably even better than us. I'm not sure that the CIA could have pulled off Stuxnet.

Every single country in the world that can influence US behavior does. So much so that we give a lot of money to everyone in the name of global security.

I think that the government of Israel is just like every other government in the world. And by that, I mean that there are zero governments in the world that can convince the US to get into a war that is not in the US's best interest, including Israel. To believe that Israel has some magical power to force us into wars is irrational. No one claims that other countries in the world have that power over the US. It's just crazy talk. So crazy that I can only come to one conclusion as to where those arguments come from, and its pretty ugly.

93MarineHorn said:

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Phatbob said:

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93MarineHorn said:

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BusterAg said:

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I mean, I agree with your statement in isolation.

Is the reason why we protect Taiwan is because of the Taiwanese influence on the US government?

Is the reason why we are allies with Israel is because of the Jewish influence on the US government?

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I would argue that protecting both of these countries is what a significant or even a majority of US citizens want. I think that people that blame Israel for the US entering ME conflicts are incorrect when they lay the blame solely on Israel, but I don't think they're anti-semitic for thinking it. They see how much influence AIPAC has and how our entering the fight helps Israel, 2 + 2 = 4. Again, I think this is wrong but I don't think their opinion is rooted in bigotry.

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But if they only care about it when it is Israel, but not really for any other similar situation, that kinda belies that point. Sure, one can make that argument that it is not based in bigotry on its face, but when that is the only exception to the entire rest of the world that operates similarly... it sure looks like the most plausible explanation.

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I can't think of another country in the world that has a similar relationship to the one we have with Israel. Seriously, give me an example if you can.

Maybe Taiwan, but they aren't constantly in conflict.

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Can you define this?