BusterAg said:

---

theJonatron said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

theJonatron said:

---

People can hate the government of Israel but not hate Jewish people just like we can hate the US government but love our country.

Saying America first is not antisemitic.

---

People that hate the government of Israel more than they hate the government of, say, Argentina are irrational, but we constantly hear about one but not the other.

News flash, the government of Argentina is 1,000% more corrupt.

---

the big difference between those two is that Argentina is not constantly spying and stealing our stuff. they also don't pick fights that we have to consistently finish for them.

hate to break it to you, but our federal government is influenced, heavily, from AIPAC. does that not count ass corruption?

why would you care if your neighbor is corrupt if they leave their corruption in their own home?
now, what about the neighbor that is influencing your family?

which one do you think the government of Israel is?

---

Every country in the world that has the capability to spy on the US does, including Germany and the UK. Israel just happens to be the best in the world at spying, probably even better than us. I'm not sure that the CIA could have pulled off Stuxnet.

Every single country in the world that can influence US behavior does. So much so that we give a lot of money to everyone in the name of global security.

I think that the government of Israel is just like every other government in the world. And by that, I mean that there are zero governments in the world that can convince the US to get into a war that is not in the US's best interest, including Israel. To believe that Israel has some magical power to force us into wars is irrational. No one claims that other countries in the world have that power over the US. It's just crazy talk. So crazy that I can only come to one conclusion as to where those arguments come from, and its pretty ugly.

---

They don't have a "magical" power. But the dominant religious doctrine in the United States probably helps them win over lots of champions to their causes, don't you figure?

They and the politicians they support financially here use this power very, very well.

93MarineHorn said:

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Phatbob said:

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93MarineHorn said:

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BusterAg said:

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I mean, I agree with your statement in isolation.

Is the reason why we protect Taiwan is because of the Taiwanese influence on the US government?

Is the reason why we are allies with Israel is because of the Jewish influence on the US government?

---

I would argue that protecting both of these countries is what a significant or even a majority of US citizens want. I think that people that blame Israel for the US entering ME conflicts are incorrect when they lay the blame solely on Israel, but I don't think they're anti-semitic for thinking it. They see how much influence AIPAC has and how our entering the fight helps Israel, 2 + 2 = 4. Again, I think this is wrong but I don't think their opinion is rooted in bigotry.

---

But if they only care about it when it is Israel, but not really for any other similar situation, that kinda belies that point. Sure, one can make that argument that it is not based in bigotry on its face, but when that is the only exception to the entire rest of the world that operates similarly... it sure looks like the most plausible explanation.

---

I can't think of another country in the world that has a similar relationship to the one we have with Israel. Seriously, give me an example if you can.

Maybe Taiwan, but they aren't constantly in conflict.

---

If Taiwan was being constantly bombed by China or Chinese satellite countries, would they not be in the same situation? Also, Taiwan is not exactly in the same strategic location. The logistical importance of that region is not even comparable.

FWTXAg said:

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Phatbob said:

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Quote:

---

Does it help United State citizens who are broke, disenfranchised, and have no hope for the future? Absolutely not.

---

Can we not deal in platitudes and deal with details? Who are these people specifically?

You realize that ignoring the global situation also does not help those people, but also creates a situation where our economy cannot help those people in the future. It's not as simple as you'd like for it to be.

---

Who are these people specifically?

2 or 3 years ago they were all mostly Trump voters, I'm not sure how many there are but I'd guess in the tens of millions, they thought we might use the trillions of dollars of waste we use to fund endless and needless wars across the globe (on piss ant countries that we could eliminate with the drop of a hat if we really wanted), fraud and abuse, and corporate welfare, but rather that we might actually better our Country here and now with all of that tax money, today.

They were all wrong, like usual. Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.

---

I'm asking who is "broke, disenfranchised, and have no hope for the future" in this country. If they are that way because we decided to attack Iran, then their life choices are seriously f'd.

BusterAg said:

---

jwhaby said:

---

Severian the Torturer said:

---

BonfireNerd04 said:

---

Severian the Torturer said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

theJonatron said:

---

People can hate the government of Israel but not hate Jewish people just like we can hate the US government but love our country.

Saying America first is not antisemitic.

---

People that hate the government of Israel more than they hate the government of, say, Argentina are irrational, but we constantly hear about one but not the other.

News flash, the government of Argentina is 1,000% more corrupt.

---

Do we keep getting dragged into wars by Argentina?

---

Which wars do you think that Israel dragged us into?

---

Iraq 91, Iraq 03, Lebanese Civil War, Syria for the past generation, Iran presently.

---

I was watching a clip online and these are conflicts that Charlie Kirk specifically mentioned. Then again, he was a raging Jew hater.

---

You got some citations to back that up? Kirk has thousands upon thousands of video online. Care to link to some video where he is being a Jew hater?

---

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DVUMbt5klqo/?igsh=MW5iNnc4bHNlYXdwNQ==

Here you go. Let's see you come at Charlie Kirk. He's saying the same thing as me. Is he an antisemitic Jew hater too?

FWTXAg said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

theJonatron said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

theJonatron said:

---

People can hate the government of Israel but not hate Jewish people just like we can hate the US government but love our country.

Saying America first is not antisemitic.

---

People that hate the government of Israel more than they hate the government of, say, Argentina are irrational, but we constantly hear about one but not the other.

News flash, the government of Argentina is 1,000% more corrupt.

---

the big difference between those two is that Argentina is not constantly spying and stealing our stuff. they also don't pick fights that we have to consistently finish for them.

hate to break it to you, but our federal government is influenced, heavily, from AIPAC. does that not count ass corruption?

why would you care if your neighbor is corrupt if they leave their corruption in their own home?
now, what about the neighbor that is influencing your family?

which one do you think the government of Israel is?

---

Every country in the world that has the capability to spy on the US does, including Germany and the UK. Israel just happens to be the best in the world at spying, probably even better than us. I'm not sure that the CIA could have pulled off Stuxnet.

Every single country in the world that can influence US behavior does. So much so that we give a lot of money to everyone in the name of global security.

I think that the government of Israel is just like every other government in the world. And by that, I mean that there are zero governments in the world that can convince the US to get into a war that is not in the US's best interest, including Israel. To believe that Israel has some magical power to force us into wars is irrational. No one claims that other countries in the world have that power over the US. It's just crazy talk. So crazy that I can only come to one conclusion as to where those arguments come from, and its pretty ugly.

---

They don't have a "magical" power. But the dominant religious doctrine in the United States probably helps them win over lots of champions to their causes, don't you figure?

They and the politicians they support financially here use this power very, very well.

---

A much more rational analysis would focus on the value of light sweet crude.

No one claims we do Italys bidding due to Vatican City. But, Italy doesn't have any oil.

Venezuela and Iran both do, though.

jwhaby said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

jwhaby said:

---

Severian the Torturer said:

---

BonfireNerd04 said:

---

Severian the Torturer said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

theJonatron said:

---

People can hate the government of Israel but not hate Jewish people just like we can hate the US government but love our country.

Saying America first is not antisemitic.

---

People that hate the government of Israel more than they hate the government of, say, Argentina are irrational, but we constantly hear about one but not the other.

News flash, the government of Argentina is 1,000% more corrupt.

---

Do we keep getting dragged into wars by Argentina?

---

Which wars do you think that Israel dragged us into?

---

Iraq 91, Iraq 03, Lebanese Civil War, Syria for the past generation, Iran presently.

---

I was watching a clip online and these are conflicts that Charlie Kirk specifically mentioned. Then again, he was a raging Jew hater.

---

You got some citations to back that up? Kirk has thousands upon thousands of video online. Care to link to some video where he is being a Jew hater?

---

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DVUMbt5klqo/?igsh=MW5iNnc4bHNlYXdwNQ==

Here you go. Let's see you come at Charlie Kirk. He's saying the same thing as me. Is he an antisemitic Jew hater too?

---

What was the question Kirk was responding to? Context does matter.

Im not saying you are wrong, but I also remember a clip of Kirk supposedly saying that black people are too dumb to be pilots.

The only reason that Tiawan isn't constantly being bombed by China is that China is rational.

The Ayatollahs are not.

If China invades Taiwan, there will be a war.

BusterAg said:

---

FWTXAg said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

theJonatron said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

theJonatron said:

---

People can hate the government of Israel but not hate Jewish people just like we can hate the US government but love our country.

Saying America first is not antisemitic.

---

People that hate the government of Israel more than they hate the government of, say, Argentina are irrational, but we constantly hear about one but not the other.

News flash, the government of Argentina is 1,000% more corrupt.

---

the big difference between those two is that Argentina is not constantly spying and stealing our stuff. they also don't pick fights that we have to consistently finish for them.

hate to break it to you, but our federal government is influenced, heavily, from AIPAC. does that not count ass corruption?

why would you care if your neighbor is corrupt if they leave their corruption in their own home?
now, what about the neighbor that is influencing your family?

which one do you think the government of Israel is?

---

Every country in the world that has the capability to spy on the US does, including Germany and the UK. Israel just happens to be the best in the world at spying, probably even better than us. I'm not sure that the CIA could have pulled off Stuxnet.

Every single country in the world that can influence US behavior does. So much so that we give a lot of money to everyone in the name of global security.

I think that the government of Israel is just like every other government in the world. And by that, I mean that there are zero governments in the world that can convince the US to get into a war that is not in the US's best interest, including Israel. To believe that Israel has some magical power to force us into wars is irrational. No one claims that other countries in the world have that power over the US. It's just crazy talk. So crazy that I can only come to one conclusion as to where those arguments come from, and its pretty ugly.

---

They don't have a "magical" power. But the dominant religious doctrine in the United States probably helps them win over lots of champions to their causes, don't you figure?

They and the politicians they support financially here use this power very, very well.

---

A much more rational analysis would focus on the value of light sweet crude.

No one claims we do Italys bidding due to Vatican City. But, Italy doesn't have any oil.

Venezuela and Iran both do, though.

---

I agree that *if* our politicians/leaders were making decisions at the behest of another institution rather than the United States of America that it would be for the almighty dollar rather than for religious reasons.

The dollar is more important than God to the types of people who run governments.

We wouldn't be going after Venezuela/Iran for the benefit of America, it would be for the benefit of the politicians and the giant companies who fund them. Which is why people distrust the *alleged* influence Israel might seem to have over our politicians and leaders.

Charlie Kirk isn't always right. Considering that the majority of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, he's factually wrong in that clip.

I also know Israel did not push for the Iraq War. They explicitly warned the Bush administration that invading Iraq would be destabilizing and wanted them to target Iran instead.

And that video is clearly edited so I doubt he's talking about Israel there. Given the topics he's sharing it makes more sense that he's talking about the US government and the MIC. Especially when he brings up the Arab Spring where Israel hated that it happened because they lost major allies like Egypt because of the destabilization. Meanwhile Obama was trying to pick winners and losers in different countries, or directly causing new uprisings.

BusterAg said:

---

jwhaby said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

jwhaby said:

---

Severian the Torturer said:

---

BonfireNerd04 said:

---

Severian the Torturer said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

theJonatron said:

---

People can hate the government of Israel but not hate Jewish people just like we can hate the US government but love our country.

Saying America first is not antisemitic.

---

People that hate the government of Israel more than they hate the government of, say, Argentina are irrational, but we constantly hear about one but not the other.

News flash, the government of Argentina is 1,000% more corrupt.

---

Do we keep getting dragged into wars by Argentina?

---

Which wars do you think that Israel dragged us into?

---

Iraq 91, Iraq 03, Lebanese Civil War, Syria for the past generation, Iran presently.

---

I was watching a clip online and these are conflicts that Charlie Kirk specifically mentioned. Then again, he was a raging Jew hater.

---

You got some citations to back that up? Kirk has thousands upon thousands of video online. Care to link to some video where he is being a Jew hater?

---

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DVUMbt5klqo/?igsh=MW5iNnc4bHNlYXdwNQ==

Here you go. Let's see you come at Charlie Kirk. He's saying the same thing as me. Is he an antisemitic Jew hater too?

---

What was the question Kirk was responding to? Context does matter.

Im not saying you are wrong, but I also remember a clip of Kirk supposedly saying that black people are too dumb to be pilots.

---

The first line of the video "This is more of Israel pushing for Iran, but is that America's problem?" Maybe this is a deep fake, AI video? Is that going to be your next attempt to discredit it?

Tergdor said:

---

Charlie Kirk isn't always right. Considering that the majority of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, he's factually wrong in that clip.

I also know Israel did not push for the Iraq War. They explicitly warned the Bush administration that invading Iraq would be destabilizing and wanted them to target Iran instead.

And that video is clearly edited so I doubt he's talking about Israel there. Given the topics he's sharing it makes more sense that he's talking about the US government and the MIC. Especially when he brings up the Arab Spring where Israel hated that it happened because they lost major allies like Egypt because of the destabilization. Meanwhile Obama was trying to pick winners and losers in different countries, or directly causing new uprisings.

---

Who to believe, Tergdor or Charlie Kirk. Forgive me if I go with Charlie on this one.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DS51dZXjmoi/?igsh=MXNvdThvY25taW5sNg==

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DHcKFifMIJV/?igsh=cWp6d3pxbmxuenM2

You were saying about Iraq? Maybe this video is edited too.

jwhaby said:

---

Tergdor said:

---

Charlie Kirk isn't always right. Considering that the majority of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, he's factually wrong in that clip.

I also know Israel did not push for the Iraq War. They explicitly warned the Bush administration that invading Iraq would be destabilizing and wanted them to target Iran instead.

And that video is clearly edited so I doubt he's talking about Israel there. Given the topics he's sharing it makes more sense that he's talking about the US government and the MIC. Especially when he brings up the Arab Spring where Israel hated that it happened because they lost major allies like Egypt because of the destabilization. Meanwhile Obama was trying to pick winners and losers in different countries, or directly causing new uprisings.

---

Who to believe, Tergdor or Charlie Kirk. Forgive me if I go with Charlie on this one.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DS51dZXjmoi/?igsh=MXNvdThvY25taW5sNg==

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DHcKFifMIJV/?igsh=cWp6d3pxbmxuenM2

You were saying about Iraq? Maybe this video is edited too.

---

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3444393,00.html

You can just google this. There's plenty of articles that Israel didn't push for the Iraq War.

jwhaby said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

jwhaby said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

jwhaby said:

---

Severian the Torturer said:

---

BonfireNerd04 said:

---

Severian the Torturer said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

theJonatron said:

---

People can hate the government of Israel but not hate Jewish people just like we can hate the US government but love our country.

Saying America first is not antisemitic.

---

People that hate the government of Israel more than they hate the government of, say, Argentina are irrational, but we constantly hear about one but not the other.

News flash, the government of Argentina is 1,000% more corrupt.

---

Do we keep getting dragged into wars by Argentina?

---

Which wars do you think that Israel dragged us into?

---

Iraq 91, Iraq 03, Lebanese Civil War, Syria for the past generation, Iran presently.

---

I was watching a clip online and these are conflicts that Charlie Kirk specifically mentioned. Then again, he was a raging Jew hater.

---

You got some citations to back that up? Kirk has thousands upon thousands of video online. Care to link to some video where he is being a Jew hater?

---

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DVUMbt5klqo/?igsh=MW5iNnc4bHNlYXdwNQ==

Here you go. Let's see you come at Charlie Kirk. He's saying the same thing as me. Is he an antisemitic Jew hater too?

---

What was the question Kirk was responding to? Context does matter.

Im not saying you are wrong, but I also remember a clip of Kirk supposedly saying that black people are too dumb to be pilots.

---

The first line of the video "This is more of Israel pushing for Iran, but is that America's problem?" Maybe this is a deep fake, AI video? Is that going to be your next attempt to discredit it?

---

Im not discrediting it. Im asking for context, because context is important. I have been burned more than once by videos being taken out of context having a very different meaning than what is intended. Its fair to be cautious.

BusterAg said:

---

jwhaby said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

jwhaby said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

jwhaby said:

---

Severian the Torturer said:

---

BonfireNerd04 said:

---

Severian the Torturer said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

theJonatron said:

---

People can hate the government of Israel but not hate Jewish people just like we can hate the US government but love our country.

Saying America first is not antisemitic.

---

People that hate the government of Israel more than they hate the government of, say, Argentina are irrational, but we constantly hear about one but not the other.

News flash, the government of Argentina is 1,000% more corrupt.

---

Do we keep getting dragged into wars by Argentina?

---

Which wars do you think that Israel dragged us into?

---

Iraq 91, Iraq 03, Lebanese Civil War, Syria for the past generation, Iran presently.

---

I was watching a clip online and these are conflicts that Charlie Kirk specifically mentioned. Then again, he was a raging Jew hater.

---

You got some citations to back that up? Kirk has thousands upon thousands of video online. Care to link to some video where he is being a Jew hater?

---

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DVUMbt5klqo/?igsh=MW5iNnc4bHNlYXdwNQ==

Here you go. Let's see you come at Charlie Kirk. He's saying the same thing as me. Is he an antisemitic Jew hater too?

---

What was the question Kirk was responding to? Context does matter.

Im not saying you are wrong, but I also remember a clip of Kirk supposedly saying that black people are too dumb to be pilots.

---

The first line of the video "This is more of Israel pushing for Iran, but is that America's problem?" Maybe this is a deep fake, AI video? Is that going to be your next attempt to discredit it?

---

Im not discrediting it. Im asking for context, because context is important. I have been burned more than once by videos being taken out of context having a very different meaning than what is intended. Its fair to be cautious.

---

Now you have your context. What is your response?

FWTXAg said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

theJonatron said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

theJonatron said:

---

People can hate the government of Israel but not hate Jewish people just like we can hate the US government but love our country.

Saying America first is not antisemitic.

---

People that hate the government of Israel more than they hate the government of, say, Argentina are irrational, but we constantly hear about one but not the other.

News flash, the government of Argentina is 1,000% more corrupt.

---

the big difference between those two is that Argentina is not constantly spying and stealing our stuff. they also don't pick fights that we have to consistently finish for them.

hate to break it to you, but our federal government is influenced, heavily, from AIPAC. does that not count ass corruption?

why would you care if your neighbor is corrupt if they leave their corruption in their own home?
now, what about the neighbor that is influencing your family?

which one do you think the government of Israel is?

---

Every country in the world that has the capability to spy on the US does, including Germany and the UK. Israel just happens to be the best in the world at spying, probably even better than us. I'm not sure that the CIA could have pulled off Stuxnet.

Every single country in the world that can influence US behavior does. So much so that we give a lot of money to everyone in the name of global security.

I think that the government of Israel is just like every other government in the world. And by that, I mean that there are zero governments in the world that can convince the US to get into a war that is not in the US's best interest, including Israel. To believe that Israel has some magical power to force us into wars is irrational. No one claims that other countries in the world have that power over the US. It's just crazy talk. So crazy that I can only come to one conclusion as to where those arguments come from, and its pretty ugly.

---

They don't have a "magical" power. But the dominant religious doctrine in the United States probably helps them win over lots of champions to their causes, don't you figure?

They and the politicians they support financially here use this power very, very well.

---

and unless you also say the same thing about the QATARIS and the OMANIS and the KUWAITIS and the IRISH and the CHINESE and the FRENCH

then you are an anti-semite

There are some people who may blame Israel for everything but they are Candace Owens level idiotic and are not to be taken seriously.

Just the same, there are people that don't realize that there is a large number of very powerful dudes in our government now and who have been in our government during the last two generations who think that God has a covenant with the modern nation state of Israel and that we have a mandate to protect them, whether it's in our interest or not, those people are approaching the same level of Candace Owens idiocy just on the opposite side.

Israel has a right to their land. Their right comes from their ability to take and hold it, much like the first American colonies laid claim to this nation and enforced that claim against the Natives, the British, etc etc. Their right stops where their ability to maintain their sovereignty ends. We owe them literally nothing, and they owe us their entire existence.

If Israel said "America, we have a debt to you that can never be repaid, we no longer need any additional support, but will support you out of gratitude for the years of patronage, but we've got it from here" You would never hear another peep out of me about them.

jwhaby said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

jwhaby said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

jwhaby said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

jwhaby said:

---

Severian the Torturer said:

---

BonfireNerd04 said:

---

Severian the Torturer said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

theJonatron said:

---

People can hate the government of Israel but not hate Jewish people just like we can hate the US government but love our country.

Saying America first is not antisemitic.

---

People that hate the government of Israel more than they hate the government of, say, Argentina are irrational, but we constantly hear about one but not the other.

News flash, the government of Argentina is 1,000% more corrupt.

---

Do we keep getting dragged into wars by Argentina?

---

Which wars do you think that Israel dragged us into?

---

Iraq 91, Iraq 03, Lebanese Civil War, Syria for the past generation, Iran presently.

---

I was watching a clip online and these are conflicts that Charlie Kirk specifically mentioned. Then again, he was a raging Jew hater.

---

You got some citations to back that up? Kirk has thousands upon thousands of video online. Care to link to some video where he is being a Jew hater?

---

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DVUMbt5klqo/?igsh=MW5iNnc4bHNlYXdwNQ==

Here you go. Let's see you come at Charlie Kirk. He's saying the same thing as me. Is he an antisemitic Jew hater too?

---

What was the question Kirk was responding to? Context does matter.

Im not saying you are wrong, but I also remember a clip of Kirk supposedly saying that black people are too dumb to be pilots.

---

The first line of the video "This is more of Israel pushing for Iran, but is that America's problem?" Maybe this is a deep fake, AI video? Is that going to be your next attempt to discredit it?

---

Im not discrediting it. Im asking for context, because context is important. I have been burned more than once by videos being taken out of context having a very different meaning than what is intended. Its fair to be cautious.

---

Now you have your context. What is your response?

---

I think he's looking for the more general discussion. The first half second of an edited video is not context. No wonder you believe what you believe.

LMCane said:

---

FWTXAg said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

theJonatron said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

theJonatron said:

---

People can hate the government of Israel but not hate Jewish people just like we can hate the US government but love our country.

Saying America first is not antisemitic.

---

People that hate the government of Israel more than they hate the government of, say, Argentina are irrational, but we constantly hear about one but not the other.

News flash, the government of Argentina is 1,000% more corrupt.

---

the big difference between those two is that Argentina is not constantly spying and stealing our stuff. they also don't pick fights that we have to consistently finish for them.

hate to break it to you, but our federal government is influenced, heavily, from AIPAC. does that not count ass corruption?

why would you care if your neighbor is corrupt if they leave their corruption in their own home?
now, what about the neighbor that is influencing your family?

which one do you think the government of Israel is?

---

Every country in the world that has the capability to spy on the US does, including Germany and the UK. Israel just happens to be the best in the world at spying, probably even better than us. I'm not sure that the CIA could have pulled off Stuxnet.

Every single country in the world that can influence US behavior does. So much so that we give a lot of money to everyone in the name of global security.

I think that the government of Israel is just like every other government in the world. And by that, I mean that there are zero governments in the world that can convince the US to get into a war that is not in the US's best interest, including Israel. To believe that Israel has some magical power to force us into wars is irrational. No one claims that other countries in the world have that power over the US. It's just crazy talk. So crazy that I can only come to one conclusion as to where those arguments come from, and its pretty ugly.

---

They don't have a "magical" power. But the dominant religious doctrine in the United States probably helps them win over lots of champions to their causes, don't you figure?

They and the politicians they support financially here use this power very, very well.

---

and unless you also say the same thing about the QATARIS and the OMANIS and the KUWAITIS and the IRISH and the CHINESE and the FRENCH

then you are an anti-semite

---

Are you claiming we've given similar support to the states of Qatar and Oman that we have the Israelis?

Severian the Torturer said:

---

There are some people who may blame Israel for everything but they are Candace Owens level idiotic and are not to be taken seriously.

Just the same, there are people that don't realize that there is a large number of very powerful dudes in our government now and who have been in our government during the last two generations who think that God has a covenant with the modern nation state of Israel and that we have a mandate to protect them, whether it's in our interest or not, those people are approaching the same level of Candace Owens idiocy just on the opposite side.

Israel has a right to their land. Their right comes from their ability to take and hold it, much like the first American colonies laid claim to this nation and enforced that claim against the Natives, the British, etc etc. Their right stops where their ability to maintain their sovereignty ends. We owe them literally nothing, and they owe us their entire existence.

If Israel said "America, we have a debt to you that can never be repaid, we no longer need any additional support, but will support you out of gratitude for the years of patronage, but we've got it from here" You would never hear another peep out of me about them.

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There is more of an argument that Israel is an American puppet than the other way around. We have a lot of interest in the region and we pay them to do what we don't want to get our hands dirty doing. Your bias is turning it the other way around.

Phatbob said:

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Severian the Torturer said:

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There are some people who may blame Israel for everything but they are Candace Owens level idiotic and are not to be taken seriously.

Just the same, there are people that don't realize that there is a large number of very powerful dudes in our government now and who have been in our government during the last two generations who think that God has a covenant with the modern nation state of Israel and that we have a mandate to protect them, whether it's in our interest or not, those people are approaching the same level of Candace Owens idiocy just on the opposite side.

Israel has a right to their land. Their right comes from their ability to take and hold it, much like the first American colonies laid claim to this nation and enforced that claim against the Natives, the British, etc etc. Their right stops where their ability to maintain their sovereignty ends. We owe them literally nothing, and they owe us their entire existence.

If Israel said "America, we have a debt to you that can never be repaid, we no longer need any additional support, but will support you out of gratitude for the years of patronage, but we've got it from here" You would never hear another peep out of me about them.

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There is more of an argument that Israel is an American puppet than the other way around. We have a lot of interest in the region and we pay them to do what we don't want to get our hands dirty doing. Your bias is turning it the other way around.

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I wish they were a puppet. We've paid enough for it.

Tergdor said:

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jwhaby said:

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Tergdor said:

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Charlie Kirk isn't always right. Considering that the majority of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, he's factually wrong in that clip.

I also know Israel did not push for the Iraq War. They explicitly warned the Bush administration that invading Iraq would be destabilizing and wanted them to target Iran instead.

And that video is clearly edited so I doubt he's talking about Israel there. Given the topics he's sharing it makes more sense that he's talking about the US government and the MIC. Especially when he brings up the Arab Spring where Israel hated that it happened because they lost major allies like Egypt because of the destabilization. Meanwhile Obama was trying to pick winners and losers in different countries, or directly causing new uprisings.

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Who to believe, Tergdor or Charlie Kirk. Forgive me if I go with Charlie on this one.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DS51dZXjmoi/?igsh=MXNvdThvY25taW5sNg==

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DHcKFifMIJV/?igsh=cWp6d3pxbmxuenM2

You were saying about Iraq? Maybe this video is edited too.

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https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3444393,00.html

You can just google this. There's plenty of articles that Israel didn't push for the Iraq War.

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Great article. Unnamed "senior Israeli officials" saying the US shouldn't have invaded after the fact versus video of the leader of Israel calling for regime change in Iraq.

jwhaby said:

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BusterAg said:

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jwhaby said:

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BusterAg said:

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jwhaby said:

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BusterAg said:

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jwhaby said:

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Severian the Torturer said:

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BonfireNerd04 said:

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Severian the Torturer said:

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BusterAg said:

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theJonatron said:

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People can hate the government of Israel but not hate Jewish people just like we can hate the US government but love our country.

Saying America first is not antisemitic.

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People that hate the government of Israel more than they hate the government of, say, Argentina are irrational, but we constantly hear about one but not the other.

News flash, the government of Argentina is 1,000% more corrupt.

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Do we keep getting dragged into wars by Argentina?

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Which wars do you think that Israel dragged us into?

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Iraq 91, Iraq 03, Lebanese Civil War, Syria for the past generation, Iran presently.

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I was watching a clip online and these are conflicts that Charlie Kirk specifically mentioned. Then again, he was a raging Jew hater.

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You got some citations to back that up? Kirk has thousands upon thousands of video online. Care to link to some video where he is being a Jew hater?

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https://www.instagram.com/reel/DVUMbt5klqo/?igsh=MW5iNnc4bHNlYXdwNQ==

Here you go. Let's see you come at Charlie Kirk. He's saying the same thing as me. Is he an antisemitic Jew hater too?

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What was the question Kirk was responding to? Context does matter.

Im not saying you are wrong, but I also remember a clip of Kirk supposedly saying that black people are too dumb to be pilots.

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The first line of the video "This is more of Israel pushing for Iran, but is that America's problem?" Maybe this is a deep fake, AI video? Is that going to be your next attempt to discredit it?

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Im not discrediting it. Im asking for context, because context is important. I have been burned more than once by videos being taken out of context having a very different meaning than what is intended. Its fair to be cautious.

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Now you have your context. What is your response?

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What was the question that was being asked to Charlie, and by whom? Forgive me if you directly answered that question, but I am not seeing it.

Phatbob said:

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jwhaby said:

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BusterAg said:

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jwhaby said:

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BusterAg said:

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jwhaby said:

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BusterAg said:

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jwhaby said:

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Severian the Torturer said:

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BonfireNerd04 said:

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Severian the Torturer said:

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BusterAg said:

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theJonatron said:

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People can hate the government of Israel but not hate Jewish people just like we can hate the US government but love our country.

Saying America first is not antisemitic.

---

People that hate the government of Israel more than they hate the government of, say, Argentina are irrational, but we constantly hear about one but not the other.

News flash, the government of Argentina is 1,000% more corrupt.

---

Do we keep getting dragged into wars by Argentina?

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Which wars do you think that Israel dragged us into?

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Iraq 91, Iraq 03, Lebanese Civil War, Syria for the past generation, Iran presently.

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I was watching a clip online and these are conflicts that Charlie Kirk specifically mentioned. Then again, he was a raging Jew hater.

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You got some citations to back that up? Kirk has thousands upon thousands of video online. Care to link to some video where he is being a Jew hater?

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https://www.instagram.com/reel/DVUMbt5klqo/?igsh=MW5iNnc4bHNlYXdwNQ==

Here you go. Let's see you come at Charlie Kirk. He's saying the same thing as me. Is he an antisemitic Jew hater too?

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What was the question Kirk was responding to? Context does matter.

Im not saying you are wrong, but I also remember a clip of Kirk supposedly saying that black people are too dumb to be pilots.

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The first line of the video "This is more of Israel pushing for Iran, but is that America's problem?" Maybe this is a deep fake, AI video? Is that going to be your next attempt to discredit it?

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Im not discrediting it. Im asking for context, because context is important. I have been burned more than once by videos being taken out of context having a very different meaning than what is intended. Its fair to be cautious.

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Now you have your context. What is your response?

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I think he's looking for the more general discussion. The first half second of an edited video is not context. No wonder you believe what you believe.

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Don't be obtuse. The context is clear. We're discussing whether or not Israel has dragged the US into conflicts. Charlie Kirk clearly thought so.

Severian the Torturer said:

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LMCane said:

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and unless you also say the same thing about the QATARIS and the OMANIS and the KUWAITIS and the IRISH and the CHINESE and the FRENCH

then you are an anti-semite

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Are you claiming we've given similar support to the states of Qatar and Oman that we have the Israelis?

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I mean, Kuwait did draw us into a war with Iraq, right?

BusterAg said:

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Severian the Torturer said:

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LMCane said:

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and unless you also say the same thing about the QATARIS and the OMANIS and the KUWAITIS and the IRISH and the CHINESE and the FRENCH

then you are an anti-semite

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Are you claiming we've given similar support to the states of Qatar and Oman that we have the Israelis?

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I mean, Kuwait did draw us into a war with Iraq, right?

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I guess that's one way to look at Iraq's invasion and takeover of Kuwait.

jwhaby said:

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Phatbob said:

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jwhaby said:

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Now you have your context. What is your response?

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I think he's looking for the more general discussion. The first half second of an edited video is not context. No wonder you believe what you believe.

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Don't be obtuse. The context is clear. We're discussing whether or not Israel has dragged the US into conflicts. Charlie Kirk clearly thought so.

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The context is not clear.

Charlie never directly says that Israel dragged the US into a war in that clip. He might very well be saying that, but I don't know, because I don't have the context. He is saying that someone is wrong about a lot of things. One of the things he is saying is that "they" were wrong about Saudi Arabians being 9/11 hijackers. What in the world is he talking about. Saudi Arabians were 9/11 hijackers. Who is Charile saying is wrong about what? Where is that context?

You may very well be right. You might also be wrong. I'm just not seeing it either way. If you are right, I will address the question that you posed.

93MarineHorn said:

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BusterAg said:

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Severian the Torturer said:

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LMCane said:

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and unless you also say the same thing about the QATARIS and the OMANIS and the KUWAITIS and the IRISH and the CHINESE and the FRENCH

then you are an anti-semite

---

Are you claiming we've given similar support to the states of Qatar and Oman that we have the Israelis?

---

I mean, Kuwait did draw us into a war with Iraq, right?

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I guess that's one way to look at Iraq's invasion and takeover of Kuwait.

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I mean, we were clearly acting in Kuwait's best interests, not our own best interests, right?

How else can you explain it other than the Kuwaiti's infiltration of the GHW Bush White House?

Does Kuwait have the right to their land? Why or why not?

BusterAg said:

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Severian the Torturer said:

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LMCane said:

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and unless you also say the same thing about the QATARIS and the OMANIS and the KUWAITIS and the IRISH and the CHINESE and the FRENCH

then you are an anti-semite

---

Are you claiming we've given similar support to the states of Qatar and Oman that we have the Israelis?

---

I mean, Kuwait did draw us into a war with Iraq, right?

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Yes they did, and it's still not a fraction of the support we've given to Israel. George H W Bush and his son were both miserable Presidents.

BusterAg said:

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Does Kuwait have the right to their land? Why or why not?

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Yes, as long as they're able to keep it. "Rights" evaporate at the state level. No country is "owed" anything by any other country that they can't enforce.

If Taiwan is taken by the PRC, the Universe does not have to intervene to give Taiwan back.

jwhaby said:

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Phatbob said:

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jwhaby said:

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BusterAg said:

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jwhaby said:

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BusterAg said:

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jwhaby said:

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BusterAg said:

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jwhaby said:

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Severian the Torturer said:

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BonfireNerd04 said:

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Severian the Torturer said:

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BusterAg said:

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theJonatron said:

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People can hate the government of Israel but not hate Jewish people just like we can hate the US government but love our country.

Saying America first is not antisemitic.

---

People that hate the government of Israel more than they hate the government of, say, Argentina are irrational, but we constantly hear about one but not the other.

News flash, the government of Argentina is 1,000% more corrupt.

---

Do we keep getting dragged into wars by Argentina?

---

Which wars do you think that Israel dragged us into?

---

Iraq 91, Iraq 03, Lebanese Civil War, Syria for the past generation, Iran presently.

---

I was watching a clip online and these are conflicts that Charlie Kirk specifically mentioned. Then again, he was a raging Jew hater.

---

You got some citations to back that up? Kirk has thousands upon thousands of video online. Care to link to some video where he is being a Jew hater?

---

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DVUMbt5klqo/?igsh=MW5iNnc4bHNlYXdwNQ==

Here you go. Let's see you come at Charlie Kirk. He's saying the same thing as me. Is he an antisemitic Jew hater too?

---

What was the question Kirk was responding to? Context does matter.

Im not saying you are wrong, but I also remember a clip of Kirk supposedly saying that black people are too dumb to be pilots.

---

The first line of the video "This is more of Israel pushing for Iran, but is that America's problem?" Maybe this is a deep fake, AI video? Is that going to be your next attempt to discredit it?

---

Im not discrediting it. Im asking for context, because context is important. I have been burned more than once by videos being taken out of context having a very different meaning than what is intended. Its fair to be cautious.

---

Now you have your context. What is your response?

---

I think he's looking for the more general discussion. The first half second of an edited video is not context. No wonder you believe what you believe.

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Don't be obtuse. The context is clear. We're discussing whether or not Israel has dragged the US into conflicts. Charlie Kirk clearly thought so.

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I liked Kirk and if this was really his position he was wrong and likely was either listening to people that don't understand the importance of the U.S. projecting power FOR OUR ECONOMY and thus for the American people, or he just did not understand these particular issues like he did domestic cultural issues.

But what he said is not antisemitic on its face. I don't think he was saying this because he hates Jewish people or Israel. That would be the only way it would be antisemitic. If he was intentionally spreading misinformation because of a developed hatred for Jewish people. But everything I know of him and I do know people that were close to him, he did not have an antisemitic bone in his body.

I eventually became a huge critic of how the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were handled post 9/11 as I'm a critic of the policies and actions that opened the door for 9/11 to happen.

The notion that the only reason Iran matters or the only reason we have spent time, money, and American lives in the Middle East over the last 75 years is because of Jewish influence over our government is just foolishness and lacks any basic understanding of the world and the U.S. role in the world post WW2.

The level of economic prosperity that we enjoy that no other country on planet earth enjoys did not happen without us projecting power and leveraging that power to our economic advantage.

Two things can be true at once. We can be America First and bring back America manufacturing and stop selling out the American worker AND we can project economic and military power throughout the world for our own advantage.

The issue with some talking heads on both sides of the aisle is that they are trying to talk the masses into a false choice.

Trump is not and has never been an isolationist. Some people seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding in what he's been saying over the last 50 years and make no mistake, the things he's talking about and doing right now he has been talking about for a very long time.

Severian the Torturer said:

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BusterAg said:

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Does Kuwait have the right to their land? Why or why not?

---

Yes, as long as they're able to keep it. "Rights" evaporate at the state level. No country is "owed" anything by any other country that they can't enforce.

If Taiwan is taken by the PRC, the Universe does not have to intervene to give Taiwan back.

---

So if the Muslims march on the Vatican, should we sit back and watch it happen since we are not governmentally connected to the Catholics and they weren't strong enough to hold it themselves? Or do we have an interest in intervening to prevent that from happening?

Kvetch said:

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Severian the Torturer said:

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BusterAg said:

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Does Kuwait have the right to their land? Why or why not?

---

Yes, as long as they're able to keep it. "Rights" evaporate at the state level. No country is "owed" anything by any other country that they can't enforce.

If Taiwan is taken by the PRC, the Universe does not have to intervene to give Taiwan back.

---

So if the Muslims march on the Vatican, should we sit back and watch it happen since we are not governmentally connected to the Catholics and they weren't strong enough to hold it themselves? Or do we have an interest in intervening to prevent that from happening?

---

Yes, we should let it happen. No I hope that we don't let it happen. I am a Catholic first and an American second, that is why I don't blame American Jews for having a greater affinity for Israel than they do for America.

Fortunately for the USA in my case, my Catholicism doesn't place the US in wars or require huge amounts of aid to the Vatican.

The same with the Nigerian Catholics who are getting massacred. The government should not step in to help them, but I wish they would.

Severian the Torturer said:

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Kvetch said:

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Severian the Torturer said:

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BusterAg said:

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Does Kuwait have the right to their land? Why or why not?

---

Yes, as long as they're able to keep it. "Rights" evaporate at the state level. No country is "owed" anything by any other country that they can't enforce.

If Taiwan is taken by the PRC, the Universe does not have to intervene to give Taiwan back.

---

So if the Muslims march on the Vatican, should we sit back and watch it happen since we are not governmentally connected to the Catholics and they weren't strong enough to hold it themselves? Or do we have an interest in intervening to prevent that from happening?

---

Yes, we should let it happen. No I hope that we don't let it happen. I am a Catholic first and an American second, that is why I don't blame American Jews for having a greater affinity for Israel than they do for America.

Fortunately for the USA in my case, my Catholicism doesn't place the US in wars or require huge amounts of aid to the Vatican.

The same with the Nigerian Catholics who are getting massacred. The government should not step in to help them, but I wish they would.

---

The "aid" to Israel is largely purchase agreements with American defense contractors to fund defensive weapons like Iron Dome. The trope that we just send ungodly amounts of cash to them for no reason or benefit is just ridiculous. That's money that's earmarked for US industry.

Thanks for admitting that you're not actually America first. We can now disregard your opinions on the matter since you are not able to perceive a worldview where America has interests abroad without nefarious intent. Which is strange since you admittedly don't even live in America.

Kvetch said:

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Severian the Torturer said:

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Kvetch said:

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Severian the Torturer said:

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BusterAg said:

---

Does Kuwait have the right to their land? Why or why not?

---

Yes, as long as they're able to keep it. "Rights" evaporate at the state level. No country is "owed" anything by any other country that they can't enforce.

If Taiwan is taken by the PRC, the Universe does not have to intervene to give Taiwan back.

---

So if the Muslims march on the Vatican, should we sit back and watch it happen since we are not governmentally connected to the Catholics and they weren't strong enough to hold it themselves? Or do we have an interest in intervening to prevent that from happening?

---

Yes, we should let it happen. No I hope that we don't let it happen. I am a Catholic first and an American second, that is why I don't blame American Jews for having a greater affinity for Israel than they do for America.

Fortunately for the USA in my case, my Catholicism doesn't place the US in wars or require huge amounts of aid to the Vatican.

The same with the Nigerian Catholics who are getting massacred. The government should not step in to help them, but I wish they would.

---

The "aid" to Israel is largely purchase agreements with American defense contractors to fund defensive weapons like Iron Dome. The trope that we just send ungodly amounts of cash to them for no reason or benefit is just ridiculous. That's money that's earmarked for US industry.

Thanks for admitting that you're not actually America first. We can now disregard your opinions on the matter since you are not able to perceive a worldview where America has interests abroad without nefarious intent. Which is strange since you admittedly don't even live in America.

---

Yes, I understand that the military industrial complex has a vested interest in making sure we're always at war.

In what world are you surprised that a Christian is a Christian first and an American second? I have a house and three business in the USA. My newest business that requires a lot of my time due to Emirati rules regarding power of attorney necessitates that I live in the UAE. What does that have to do with anything? I'm a US Citizen.