1981 Monte Carlo said:

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twelve12twelve said:

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1981 Monte Carlo said:

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1st Generation Ag said:

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I'm 43, which makes me an early-cohort Millenial (also a former Marine officer with 12 years in corporate finance). I'm old enough to remember when the thing for X-ers (and Boomers) to do was ridicule Millenials in the workforce. They said Gen Y were lazy, fragile, distracted, and needed constant handholding. I guess time has marched on because now it's X-ers and Millenials dumping on Zoomers.

The Gen Z-ers that I work with are all diligent, smart, and really care about doing a good job. Plus ca change, I suppose.

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I will say this...while I have been pleasantly surprised with the work ethic of the Gen Z'ers we have hired in recent years...I have also noticed that they often times have unrealistic expectations in terms of their career track and "advancing". Some of them expect a promotion to management within 1-2 yrs of being hired...it's crazy. I get it, they are pinched with high costs of everything, but some of these kids are out of their mind and must have been taught how amazing ans exceptional they were their whole lives.

But the craziest thing I have noticed, is that they will straight up share information regarding bonuses/raises etc. amongst their peers. I was always raised to avoid talking about politics or money at work, but many of these kids were raised differently. Me and my coworkers NEVER shared our salaries or bonuses with each other in the earlier 2000's. Everyone knew not to do that. We have addressed this with them multiple times over the years and they still continue to do it.

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That's because HR doesn't want people knowing they're actually being underpaid compared to the nepo hire.

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We don't have any of those and I have found those to be extremely rare in my several decades of experience. But you young bucks go ahead and gossip about salaries and bonuses, I would just strongly recommend you don't let management find out. It's actually considered pretty trashy by most who weren't raised by helicopter parents and Blues Clues.

From my experience, all things being equal, the better employees almost always get paid more. Problem is, just about every young employee thinks they're the best, and completely worthy of their colleague's salary.

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My experience is different. It wasn't until I had an employer get in trouble with the NRLB for enforcing an illegal "don't discuss salary" policy that I learned that I was getting paid less than new hires.

Salary secrecy is exploitative, and needs to die with the Boomers.

Every place I ever worked had a company policy against disclosing your salary/bonuses. You could get fired for sharing salary information.

flown-the-coop said:

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As a small business owner I follow my own advice. Pay your employees the minimum amount it takes to keep them from seeking employment elsewhere. Before you scoff at that, think about it. It's simply a reflection of supply-demand economics.

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How do you determine that amount?

McNasty said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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As a small business owner I follow my own advice. Pay your employees the minimum amount it takes to keep them from seeking employment elsewhere. Before you scoff at that, think about it. It's simply a reflection of supply-demand economics.

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How do you determine that amount?

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You know your employees and the market.

If a boss doesn't know the fair value of their employees, they probably have no business being the boss and will likely fail (upwards in corporate America - see the posts about incompetent CEOs).

EclipseAg said:

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Every place I ever worked had a company policy against disclosing your salary/bonuses. You cshould get fired for sharing salary information.

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FIFY

BonfireNerd04 said:

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My experience is different. It wasn't until I had an employer get in trouble with the NRLB for enforcing an illegal "don't discuss salary" policy that I learned that I was getting paid less than new hires.

Salary secrecy is exploitative, and needs to die with the Boomers.

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Is the concept of "employment-at-will" no longer a thing?

What you are conceptualizing is a union based (or communist based) work system where all rates are known and normalized.

Works great for maintaining low performing bureaucratic organizations, like the federal government and the DMV.

flown-the-coop said:

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EclipseAg said:

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Every place I ever worked had a company policy against disclosing your salary/bonuses. You cshould get fired for sharing salary information.

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FIFY

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Don't institute bad salary policies that lead to resentment and people can talk all they want. Trying to muzzle people is a bandaid at best

flown-the-coop said:

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BonfireNerd04 said:

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My experience is different. It wasn't until I had an employer get in trouble with the NRLB for enforcing an illegal "don't discuss salary" policy that I learned that I was getting paid less than new hires.

Salary secrecy is exploitative, and needs to die with the Boomers.

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Is the concept of "employment-at-will" no longer a thing?

What you are conceptualizing is a union based (or communist based) work system where all rates are known and normalized.

Works great for maintaining low performing bureaucratic organizations, like the federal government and the DMV.

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Open info allows both parties to engage in an intelligent, rational decision and is a cornerstone of free markets. It's literally the opposite of communism.

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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EclipseAg said:

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Every place I ever worked had a company policy against disclosing your salary/bonuses. You cshould get fired for sharing salary information.

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FIFY

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Don't institute bad salary policies that lead to resentment and people can talk all they want. Trying to muzzle people is a bandaid at best

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Impossibly naive take.

See post above on not becoming a unions required, commie state.

Do people not understand that employees are at-will and that they should be their own advocate?

Saying management is a bunch of scumbags trying to screw over their corporate slaves is asinine.

Really makes me wonder if some have ever been responsible for a P&L at any level.

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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BonfireNerd04 said:

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My experience is different. It wasn't until I had an employer get in trouble with the NRLB for enforcing an illegal "don't discuss salary" policy that I learned that I was getting paid less than new hires.

Salary secrecy is exploitative, and needs to die with the Boomers.

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Is the concept of "employment-at-will" no longer a thing?

What you are conceptualizing is a union based (or communist based) work system where all rates are known and normalized.

Works great for maintaining low performing bureaucratic organizations, like the federal government and the DMV.

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Open info allows both parties to engage in an intelligent, rational decision and is a cornerstone of free markets. It's literally the opposite of communism.

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No, its literally communism.

In those societies the compensation is known across all industries. You also get your house sized determine for you.

Seems like an answer to the housing affordability crisis.

Open information is not "literally communism." This is one of the silliest claims you've made on here and I had a lot of options to choose from.

And what does "you get your house size determined for you" have to do with two people discussing their salaries? This has nothing to do with anything being discussed on this thread.

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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Open information is not "literally communism." This is one of the silliest claims you've made on here and I had a lot of options to choose from.

And what does "you get your house size determined for you" have to do with two people discussing their salaries? This has nothing to do with anything being discussed on this thread.

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You think companies should be required to disclose the salaries of all employees?

Maybe (based on username) you worked in the public sector so this is common / required. Though I think even now the universities and such have limited publishing this information.

Employment-at-will, advocate for yourself. If you don't like it, piss off and work somewhere else.

But there should be no nanny-state telling companies what they have to do here.

There are plenty of laws that protect against discrimination. So the only purpose here is to undermine the employer.

As a business owner, no thanks. Dumb.

The coherence and logical flow of this post remind me of the court room scene in animal house.

flown-the-coop said:

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Deputy Travis Junior said:

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Open information is not "literally communism." This is one of the silliest claims you've made on here and I had a lot of options to choose from.

And what does "you get your house size determined for you" have to do with two people discussing their salaries? This has nothing to do with anything being discussed on this thread.

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You think companies should be required to disclose the salaries of all employees?

Maybe (based on username) you worked in the public sector so this is common / required. Though I think even now the universities and such have limited publishing this information.

Employment-at-will, advocate for yourself. If you don't like it, piss off and work somewhere else.

But there should be no nanny-state telling companies what they have to do here.

There are plenty of laws that protect against discrimination. So the only purpose here is to undermine the employer.

As a business owner, no thanks. Dumb.

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Oh, then of course you'd say that, since you're benefiting from the asymmetry of information.

But if you were shopping for a new car, would you rather know exactly how much the previous 100 customers paid for the same model, so that you could use it to pick a good starting point in price negotiations? Or only know the MSRP and have to guess?

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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This coherence and logical flow of this post remind me of the court room scene in animal house.

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I love how you always just break down to vague commentary that only you find funny.

As always, a complete lack of substance in your posts. Just old man yells nonsense at clouds and such.

You are not interested in discussion. If you were, you would address what I said about public disclosures of salaries.

But nah, just that you cannot follow simple logical flow of discussion.

Let me know if you still have questions regarding the substance of my posts.

"But nah, just that you cannot follow simple logical flow of discussion."

I said that two people shouldn't be fired for discussing their salaries and you pivoted to housing assignments in the Soviet Union (wtf???) so hard I got whiplash. Your "simple logical flow" looks like the Gordian Knot my guy.

And every dude on this board knows the court room scene in animal house

BonfireNerd04 said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Deputy Travis Junior said:

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Open information is not "literally communism." This is one of the silliest claims you've made on here and I had a lot of options to choose from.

And what does "you get your house size determined for you" have to do with two people discussing their salaries? This has nothing to do with anything being discussed on this thread.

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You think companies should be required to disclose the salaries of all employees?

Maybe (based on username) you worked in the public sector so this is common / required. Though I think even now the universities and such have limited publishing this information.

Employment-at-will, advocate for yourself. If you don't like it, piss off and work somewhere else.

But there should be no nanny-state telling companies what they have to do here.

There are plenty of laws that protect against discrimination. So the only purpose here is to undermine the employer.

As a business owner, no thanks. Dumb.

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Oh, then of course you'd say that, since you're benefiting from the asymmetry of information.

But if you were shopping for a new car, would you rather know exactly how much the previous 100 customers paid for the same model, so that you could use it to pick a good starting point in price negotiations? Or only know the MSRP and have to guess?

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If I am selling cars I don't want to make that information available. Are you nuts? Do you walk into a grocery store and demand to know the margin on each product.

Again, you accepted a job or continue to work at a job where you agreed to a salary or compensation rate with your employer. But you want the employer to inform you anytime the market changes and adjust your salary accordingly? Or have to explain the analysis of salary?

If you have been aggressive and a high-performer getting promoted early and maybe making a couple leaps that increased your salary, you want everyone at your company to know? You think that would have positive results.

And as a business owner, you want other businesses knowing this information? That should end well.

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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"But nah, just that you cannot follow simple logical flow of discussion."

I said that two people shouldn't be fired for discussing their salaries and you pivoted to housing assignments in the Soviet Union (wtf???) so hard I got whiplash. Your "simple logical flow" looks like the Gordian Knot my guy.

And every dude on this board knows the court room scene in animal house

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I only made own comment on housing in regards to communism and everyone knowing everything about you.

You have now made two comments on it - assuming you want a derail but you are not getting it from me. Hence why my focus remains relevant to the thread, you comments do not and you just want to engage in an ad hom game.

I will ask you again, would you like to discuss why publishing or requiring publishing of salary figures is not a great idea.

My experience as a white Gen Z 26-year-old male. First off, I'm very appreciative of my parents and family for their support with me growing up. I had to work my tale off in everything I did so far in life. I have dyslexia, and throughout school, I struggled with writing, reading, and paying attention. I managed to transfer into A&M and graduate in 2024 with my buddies in the Corps. I know a lot of friends and siblings who are all definitely more book smart than I am, but they lack either common sense or knowing when to focus in on the important things and get them done. Besides that, I'm very fortunate to have a job where the workload is not even close to being fair for what I'm doing by myself. But I always remind myself that I'm very fortunate compared to most of human history and wars going on, and being able to live very long in comparison. Everything that I have seen has been corrupt and works against me, and the system is very rotten, with almost virtually zero trust with the majority of people I deal with. As well as the blatant discrimination and degrading treatment I have experienced in school and in the job market that is not talked about, along with lost opportunities, I have been compared to the opposite sex and race. That's why I have been getting more and more ruthless in some things, the older I have gotten, due to my "privilege". However, at the end of the day, the only thing I can truly do is be the best person I can be for my family and my significant other. In everything I can do to protest the system, I vote with my wallet, my values, and my beliefs (Probably doesn't matter). But sometimes you win and lose some. This future looks very bleak, dull, and not many opportunities. My only hope is that when I have kids, I hope they will have more opportunities than I have had in my lifetime. The great thing is that I'm somewhat young and there is just not enough time in the world to do everything I want to do, but I will try at least.

Littlesarge said:

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My experience as a white Gen Z 26-year-old male. First off, I'm very appreciative of my parents and family for their support with me growing up. I had to work my tale off in everything I did so far in life. I have dyslexia, and throughout school, I struggled with writing, reading, and paying attention. I managed to transfer into A&M and graduate in 2024 with my buddies in the Corps. I know a lot of friends and siblings who are all definitely more book smart than I am, but they lack either common sense or knowing when to focus in on the important things and get them done. Besides that, I'm very fortunate to have a job where the workload is not even close to being fair for what I'm doing by myself. But I always remind myself that I'm very fortunate compared to most of human history and wars going on, and being able to live very long in comparison. Everything that I have seen has been corrupt and works against me, and the system is very rotten, with almost virtually zero trust with the majority of people I deal with. As well as the blatant discrimination and degrading treatment I have experienced in school and in the job market that is not talked about, along with lost opportunities, I have been compared to the opposite sex and race. That's why I have been getting more and more ruthless in some things, the older I have gotten, due to my "privilege". However, at the end of the day, the only thing I can truly do is be the best person I can be for my family and my significant other. In everything I can do to protest the system, I vote with my wallet, my values, and my beliefs (Probably doesn't matter). But sometimes you win and lose some. This future looks very bleak, dull, and not many opportunities. My only hope is that when I have kids, I hope they will have more opportunities than I have had in my lifetime. The great thing is that I'm somewhat young and there is just not enough time in the world to do everything I want to do, but I will try at least.

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You don't have very many opportunities today because the generation who were the bosses back in the 90s thought it was uncool to invest in America. They shipped all the opportunity to India, China and elsewhere claiming they getting better talent and cheaper prices. Of course the whole thing was a big fat lie. They did the same thing to my generation also and your generation is feeling the trickle down effect. Now the same folks sit on their keyboards and gaslight Gen Z calling them fat, dumb and lazy while claiming "oportunity is always there, you have just go out and grab it". Of course they mean hot in-demand jobs like plumbers, electricians and HVAC jobs. If you question them, they guilt you and claim you are looking down on becoming a plumber.

This is where we are today.

Very very sad.

I'm pretty fortunate with my job and what I love to do. But I definitely feel bad about my peers; some of them are just as hardworking as I am and struggle quietly. All we can do is see what the writers of history decide to write later on.

I never said companies should be required to publish salaries, I said that firing two people for discussing their salaries is stupid and that muzzling is a bandaid at best.

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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I never said companies should be required to publish salaries, I said that firing two people for discussing their salaries is stupid and that muzzling is a bandaid at best.

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Good news I can fire my employees for any reason. God bless America.

If I don't care for my employees discussing comp, I fire them.

And I will go back to an earlier post of mine and the wisdom it enshrines.

When two people at the same company discuss their salaries with one another, both will be dissatisfied with the result.

I'm sure the Bangladeshi content mills you pay $7 and $12 a day to post pro trump stuff across the internet are quaking in fear over your employment policies and location in an at-will employment state

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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I'm sure the Bangladeshi content mills you pay $7 and $12 a day to post pro trump stuff across the internet are quaking in fear over your employment policies and location in an at-will employment state

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Nothing but trash posting.

Congrats?

Great discussion. Look forward to the next time you have nothing of substance to say.

Already made my point (saying it's literally communism to discuss your salary with a coworker is very not smart and not based on anything Marx ever said).

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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Already made my point (saying it's literally communism to discuss your salary with a coworker is very not smart and not based on anything Marx ever said).

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I will defer to your expertise here.

Sorry you could not follow the logic that requiring companies to allow such discussion or requiring or interfering in any way in the compensation relationship between an employee and employer is asinine is akin to how communism works where all such things are defined and leveled out.

Instead of trying to understand that, you engage in disingenuous discussion, which is fine, but its not really the point of the thread or board.

Enjoy you marxist knowledge.

Again, I never said anything about laws or requirements, just that 1) firing people for discussing salary is dumb and 2) allowing people to discuss salary is not "literally communism."

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DWgpFl_Du5O/?igsh=OXNwYXo3bGxtMmdj

[Calling out and attacking another poster is completely out of bounds -- Staff]