I'm 40 and have 2 kids. I wish my kids grew up in the same 80s/90s that I did. This generation does have a lot of advantages that makes many things easier, but I don't believe it's setting them up for success in the same way.

Three issues I see

1.). Unrealistic expectations- they assume they will make lots of money and live a great life starting out and don't realize that a lot of people made sacrifices to get where they have a "good life" and also social media lies.


2.) easiness of fast food/food delivery. Many people won't cook or claim they "don't have time". What they spend on one delivered meal they could make three to four dinners.

3.) body positivity movement. Gross. It cuts down on dating pool.


All these things can be overcome but #2 I continue to see being a huge issue. It's never been easier to eat healthier and cheaply. It's pretty freaking great if you use discipline.

backintexas2013 said:

---

Three issues I see

1.). Unrealistic expectations- they assume they will make lots of money and live a great life starting out and don't realize that a lot of people made sacrifices to get where they have a "good life" and also social media lies.


2.) easiness of fast food/food delivery. Many people won't cook or claim they "don't have time". What they spend on one delivered meal they could make three to four dinners.

3.) body positivity movement. Gross. It cuts down on dating pool.


All these things can be overcome but #2 I continue to see being a huge issue. It's never been easier to eat healthier and cheaply. It's pretty freaking great if you use discipline.

---

Everything is overpriced. Our government imports foreigners to compete for college spots and our government imports foreigners to compete for jobs. Our government has let in (and now is failing to deport) 50 million foreigners which drives up the costs of everything. Our government force isolated everyone for a few years. Our government allowed OnlyFans, which opened up the door for young, naive women to just become sex workers from their bedroom. There are many other reasons but that's good for now.

Gen Z cannot afford anything you could afford. Gen Z does not have the job prospects you had. Gen Z does not have the wife prospects you had. It is a sad situation for them, and I do not fault them for being unmotivated given these facts, but they will be the generation that gets this country straight again

What percentage of females do onlyfans?

You posting it again doesn't make it true. My opinions of what I see are just as valid as your opinions.

Do you have kids struggling or are you struggling? How come others are thriving?

It truly is easy to eat cheap and healthy. Just don't eat out

Keyno said:

---

jja79 said:

---

I lived through the boomer and Z worlds and Z had it much easier. I'm curious what your age is?

---

You did not grow up in the Gen Z world. Which is why I have repeatedly said Gen Z is not growing up in the same world or even universe that you did

---

Tell us your age if you will. I lived through both so I'm comfortable with my observation. Schools were better when I was a kid. No one has mentioned public schools are terrible now as a reason some kids struggle. You keep looking for and making excuses but as always life is mostly what you make it.

Quote:

---

Gen Z is not growing up in the same world or even universe that you did

---

True, but part of that is the relative wealth you grew up with and became accustomed to. I didn't have a cell phone. My gaming system was Pong then a Commodore 64 that I could type homework on. I did have a stereo that was mostly my parents' old components. No TV in my room. A set bedtime.

I had to mow lawns to supplement my meager allowance. I got a paper route at 14 (and a moped). Started bagging groceries at 16. If I wanted to play sports at all, I had to cut down my work hours, and my parents didn't supplement my pay. They got me a car a 16 that I had to share with my sisters when they were old enough to drive.

And I don't think any of that was uncommon. There were exceptions, but I wasn't some odd outlier.

I'm not saying this is you or your kids, but I see plenty of kids with cell phones, a TV with cable or equivalent, an XBox or equivalent, more toys and sporting goods than they know what to do with. And they have never had a job or an expectation that they would get one.

Leaving that world looks like deprivation, and most of those kids haven't worked, so they don't have the grit to get out there and make it happen.

I won't deny that there are current obstacles, but I also think the expectation for young adults aren't realistic.

jja79 said:

---

Keyno said:

---

jja79 said:

---

I lived through the boomer and Z worlds and Z had it much easier. I'm curious what your age is?

---

You did not grow up in the Gen Z world. Which is why I have repeatedly said Gen Z is not growing up in the same world or even universe that you did

---

Tell us your age of you will. I lived through both so I'm comfortable with my observation. Schools were better when I was a kid. No one has mentioned public schools are terrible now as a reason some kids struggle. You keep looking for and making excuses but as always life is mostly what you make it.

---

I am much younger than you. Thank you for mentioning schools, I forgot to mention that. You grew up in mostly homogeneous schools which used to enforce conservative norms. Yet another thing Gen Z didn't get

So guessing you have friends that are struggling maybe you are. Makes a lot of sense.

backintexas2013 said:

---

So guessing you have friends that are struggling maybe you are. Makes a lot of sense.

---

As usual, you are incorrect

I had a lot of friends that after college still worked side jobs. Hell I still do not because of the money but because I love it. Money isn't bad either and it's nice to blow on frivolous things.

You don't have any friends struggling? So they are thriving but somehow life is much tougher now. Gotcha. "As usual". You paint with a broad brush. How am I wrong when I see young people just killing it?

backintexas2013 said:

---

You don't have any friends struggling? So they are thriving but somehow life is much tougher now. Gotcha.

---

If you would you like to discuss the topic of this thread or anything I've said, I am here for it.

Schools are a disgrace now. That's an issue.

Someone else asked if you're struggling or have kids struggling? Having a 23 year old i know a lot of other young adults and their parents. You and I don't have to agree but I feel like opportunity exists.

I have. You blamed onlyfans for men having problem finding women. How many females are doing that?

You say everything is more expensive. I think it's easier to eat cheap now because there are while websites and instagram pages on eating cheap and healthy.

backintexas2013 said:

---

I have. You blamed onlyfans for men having problem finding women. How many females are doing that?

---

I listed a few other reasons why Gen Z faces troubles that you never faced. But yeah I will address the OnlyFans thing since you have brought it up a few times. Young women (sometimes younger than 18) get on OnlyFans and sell their bodies for online viewership. Young men (sometimes younger than 18) view it. It's a sick moral decay that you or any of your ancestors never had to deal with.

Once again how many women? I am guessing it's a small percentage and has very little to do with people finding dates.

Also I brought up food. How often do younger people eat out? You are younger how often do you and your friends?

Keyno said:

---

I know this board skews "older" so I will try to be polite and respectful.

Gen Z is not growing up in the same world you grew up in. It's barely the same universe.

Everything is overpriced. Our government imports foreigners to compete for college spots and our government imports foreigners to compete for jobs. Our government has let in (and now is failing to deport) 50 million foreigners which drives up the costs of everything. Our government force isolated everyone for a few years. Our government allowed OnlyFans, which opened up the door for young, naive women to just become sex workers from their bedroom. There are many other reasons but that's good for now.

Gen Z cannot afford anything you could afford. Gen Z does not have the job prospects you had. Gen Z does not have the wife prospects you had. It is a sad situation for them, and I do not fault them for being unmotivated given these facts, but they will be the generation that gets this country straight again

---

The 1970's and 12%+ interest rates called and would like a word. Also, gas lines are next in line.

agracer said:

---

Keyno said:

---

I know this board skews "older" so I will try to be polite and respectful.

Gen Z is not growing up in the same world you grew up in. It's barely the same universe.

Everything is overpriced. Our government imports foreigners to compete for college spots and our government imports foreigners to compete for jobs. Our government has let in (and now is failing to deport) 50 million foreigners which drives up the costs of everything. Our government force isolated everyone for a few years. Our government allowed OnlyFans, which opened up the door for young, naive women to just become sex workers from their bedroom. There are many other reasons but that's good for now.

Gen Z cannot afford anything you could afford. Gen Z does not have the job prospects you had. Gen Z does not have the wife prospects you had. It is a sad situation for them, and I do not fault them for being unmotivated given these facts, but they will be the generation that gets this country straight again

---

The 1970's and 12%+ interest rates called and would like a word. Also, gas lines are next in line.

---

Rates and prices are inversely related.
One reason houses are relatively expensive is a decade-plus of government-sponsored and Fed-induced near-0 % interest rates (ZIRP). For most people, their largest investment is their home, and when the country faced widespread defaults and a housing depression, the government stepped in to bail out banks and homeowners.

As an outcome of these bailouts (or "stabilization"), Boomers and GenX homeowners benefited the most from a generational perspective. Then and now.

Since the GFC, home prices have steadily increased, as expected with a generation (GFC + covid) of artificially low rates. The trade-off has been higher home prices and lower affordability for the subsequent generations. We were warning about these issues on this board all the way back during the TARP and QE days.

tysker said:

---

agracer said:

---

Keyno said:

---

I know this board skews "older" so I will try to be polite and respectful.

Gen Z is not growing up in the same world you grew up in. It's barely the same universe.

Everything is overpriced. Our government imports foreigners to compete for college spots and our government imports foreigners to compete for jobs. Our government has let in (and now is failing to deport) 50 million foreigners which drives up the costs of everything. Our government force isolated everyone for a few years. Our government allowed OnlyFans, which opened up the door for young, naive women to just become sex workers from their bedroom. There are many other reasons but that's good for now.

Gen Z cannot afford anything you could afford. Gen Z does not have the job prospects you had. Gen Z does not have the wife prospects you had. It is a sad situation for them, and I do not fault them for being unmotivated given these facts, but they will be the generation that gets this country straight again

---

The 1970's and 12%+ interest rates called and would like a word. Also, gas lines are next in line.

---

Rates and prices are inversely related.
One reason houses are relatively expensive is a decade-plus of government-sponsored and Fed-induced near-0 % interest rates (ZIRP). For most people, their largest investment is their home, and when the country faced widespread defaults and a housing depression, the government stepped in to bail out banks and homeowners.

As an outcome of these bailouts (or "stabilization"), Boomers and GenX homeowners benefited the most from a generational perspective. Then and now.

Since the GFC, home prices have steadily increased, as expected with a generation (GFC + covid) of artificially low rates. The trade-off has been higher home prices and lower affordability for the subsequent generations. We were warning about these issues on this board all the way back during the TARP and QE days.

---

All of this is just getting away from the point. The "olds" could buy a house on the cheap and raise 5 kids on a single income. Yes, yes, I know they worked very hard.

Gen Z cannot do this.

BBRex said:

---

Quote:

---

Gen Z is not growing up in the same world or even universe that you did

---

True, but part of that is the relative wealth you grew up with and became accustomed to.

---

We often overlook this fact but it is a reality. Many kids today grow up around significantly more affluence than people in the '70s, '80s and '90s did.

As a kid, I lived in a solid middle class neighborhood. Everyone around me was the same socioeconomically. There were no poor kids; there were no rich kids. No one traveled extensively. No one had a big house.

In high school, everyone worked. Everyone.

Doing better than my parents was easy because outside of an 1,600-square-foot, three-bedroom home and a couple of cars, they had very little.

Keyno said:

---

tysker said:

---

agracer said:

---

Keyno said:

---

I know this board skews "older" so I will try to be polite and respectful.

Gen Z is not growing up in the same world you grew up in. It's barely the same universe.

Everything is overpriced. Our government imports foreigners to compete for college spots and our government imports foreigners to compete for jobs. Our government has let in (and now is failing to deport) 50 million foreigners which drives up the costs of everything. Our government force isolated everyone for a few years. Our government allowed OnlyFans, which opened up the door for young, naive women to just become sex workers from their bedroom. There are many other reasons but that's good for now.

Gen Z cannot afford anything you could afford. Gen Z does not have the job prospects you had. Gen Z does not have the wife prospects you had. It is a sad situation for them, and I do not fault them for being unmotivated given these facts, but they will be the generation that gets this country straight again

---

The 1970's and 12%+ interest rates called and would like a word. Also, gas lines are next in line.

---

Rates and prices are inversely related.
One reason houses are relatively expensive is a decade-plus of government-sponsored and Fed-induced near-0 % interest rates (ZIRP). For most people, their largest investment is their home, and when the country faced widespread defaults and a housing depression, the government stepped in to bail out banks and homeowners.

As an outcome of these bailouts (or "stabilization"), Boomers and GenX homeowners benefited the most from a generational perspective. Then and now.

Since the GFC, home prices have steadily increased, as expected with a generation (GFC + covid) of artificially low rates. The trade-off has been higher home prices and lower affordability for the subsequent generations. We were warning about these issues on this board all the way back during the TARP and QE days.

---

All of this is just getting away from the point. The "olds" could buy a house on the cheap and raise 5 kids on a single income. Yes, yes, I know they worked very hard.

Gen Z cannot do this.

---

No its the same point. Home prices have increased for a variety of reasons, the most important of which was long-term low interest rates

But also, the median house size in 1984 was ~1700 sq ft with small kitchens and fewer bedrooms. Also, home occupancy was higher at around 2.8-3.0 persons per household. In the 2020s, the median house size is around 2,300 sq ft, with an occupancy rate of less than 2.5 people per home (more single-person and fewer children). Prices on a per-sq-ft, per-occupancy basis have increased, but not as much as some think.

Not only have homes gotten larger with fewer people occupying them, but new builds are also much higher in quality and efficiency than they were in the 80s. How many new home buyers would want to live in the same home I lived in during the 80s, with the same HVAC, same hot water tank, same carpet and linoleum in the kitchen, no dedicated family room, etc?

tysker said:

---

Keyno said:

---

tysker said:

---

agracer said:

---

Keyno said:

---

I know this board skews "older" so I will try to be polite and respectful.

Gen Z is not growing up in the same world you grew up in. It's barely the same universe.

Everything is overpriced. Our government imports foreigners to compete for college spots and our government imports foreigners to compete for jobs. Our government has let in (and now is failing to deport) 50 million foreigners which drives up the costs of everything. Our government force isolated everyone for a few years. Our government allowed OnlyFans, which opened up the door for young, naive women to just become sex workers from their bedroom. There are many other reasons but that's good for now.

Gen Z cannot afford anything you could afford. Gen Z does not have the job prospects you had. Gen Z does not have the wife prospects you had. It is a sad situation for them, and I do not fault them for being unmotivated given these facts, but they will be the generation that gets this country straight again

---

The 1970's and 12%+ interest rates called and would like a word. Also, gas lines are next in line.

---

Rates and prices are inversely related.
One reason houses are relatively expensive is a decade-plus of government-sponsored and Fed-induced near-0 % interest rates (ZIRP). For most people, their largest investment is their home, and when the country faced widespread defaults and a housing depression, the government stepped in to bail out banks and homeowners.

As an outcome of these bailouts (or "stabilization"), Boomers and GenX homeowners benefited the most from a generational perspective. Then and now.

Since the GFC, home prices have steadily increased, as expected with a generation (GFC + covid) of artificially low rates. The trade-off has been higher home prices and lower affordability for the subsequent generations. We were warning about these issues on this board all the way back during the TARP and QE days.

---

All of this is just getting away from the point. The "olds" could buy a house on the cheap and raise 5 kids on a single income. Yes, yes, I know they worked very hard.

Gen Z cannot do this.

---

No its the same point. Home prices have increased for a variety of reasons, the most important of which was long-term low interest rates

But also, the median house size in 1984 was ~1700 sq ft with small kitchens and fewer bedrooms. Also, home occupancy was higher at around 2.8-3.0 persons per household. In the 2020s, the median house size is around 2,300 sq ft, with an occupancy rate of less than 2.5 people per home (more single-person and fewer children). Prices on a per-sq-ft, per-occupancy basis have increased, but not as much as some think.

Not only have homes gotten larger with fewer people occupying them, but new builds are also much higher in quality and efficiency than they were in the 80s. How many new home buyers would want to live in the same home I lived in during the 80s, with the same HVAC, same hot water tank, same carpet and linoleum in the kitchen, no dedicated family room, etc?

---

OK now do the cost of that home at the time compared to the average salary. I have the stats if you don't know them

Keyno said:

---

tysker said:

---

agracer said:

---

Keyno said:

---

I know this board skews "older" so I will try to be polite and respectful.

Gen Z is not growing up in the same world you grew up in. It's barely the same universe.

Everything is overpriced. Our government imports foreigners to compete for college spots and our government imports foreigners to compete for jobs. Our government has let in (and now is failing to deport) 50 million foreigners which drives up the costs of everything. Our government force isolated everyone for a few years. Our government allowed OnlyFans, which opened up the door for young, naive women to just become sex workers from their bedroom. There are many other reasons but that's good for now.

Gen Z cannot afford anything you could afford. Gen Z does not have the job prospects you had. Gen Z does not have the wife prospects you had. It is a sad situation for them, and I do not fault them for being unmotivated given these facts, but they will be the generation that gets this country straight again

---

The 1970's and 12%+ interest rates called and would like a word. Also, gas lines are next in line.

---

Rates and prices are inversely related.
One reason houses are relatively expensive is a decade-plus of government-sponsored and Fed-induced near-0 % interest rates (ZIRP). For most people, their largest investment is their home, and when the country faced widespread defaults and a housing depression, the government stepped in to bail out banks and homeowners.

As an outcome of these bailouts (or "stabilization"), Boomers and GenX homeowners benefited the most from a generational perspective. Then and now.

Since the GFC, home prices have steadily increased, as expected with a generation (GFC + covid) of artificially low rates. The trade-off has been higher home prices and lower affordability for the subsequent generations. We were warning about these issues on this board all the way back during the TARP and QE days.

---

All of this is just getting away from the point. The "olds" could buy a house on the cheap and raise 5 kids on a single income. Yes, yes, I know they worked very hard.

Gen Z cannot do this.

---

Most of Gen X couldn't either.

Quote:

---

The "olds" could buy a house on the cheap and raise 5 kids on a single income.

---

FWIW, this changed dramatically in the 70s, and by the 80s, assuming it was ever the norm.
The idea of single-worker households throughout working life is mostly a myth. Women have contributed and supplemented household income, even through small jobs and part-time work, for decades.

Keyno said:

---

tysker said:

---

Keyno said:

---

tysker said:

---

agracer said:

---

Keyno said:

---

I know this board skews "older" so I will try to be polite and respectful.

Gen Z is not growing up in the same world you grew up in. It's barely the same universe.

Everything is overpriced. Our government imports foreigners to compete for college spots and our government imports foreigners to compete for jobs. Our government has let in (and now is failing to deport) 50 million foreigners which drives up the costs of everything. Our government force isolated everyone for a few years. Our government allowed OnlyFans, which opened up the door for young, naive women to just become sex workers from their bedroom. There are many other reasons but that's good for now.

Gen Z cannot afford anything you could afford. Gen Z does not have the job prospects you had. Gen Z does not have the wife prospects you had. It is a sad situation for them, and I do not fault them for being unmotivated given these facts, but they will be the generation that gets this country straight again

---

The 1970's and 12%+ interest rates called and would like a word. Also, gas lines are next in line.

---

Rates and prices are inversely related.
One reason houses are relatively expensive is a decade-plus of government-sponsored and Fed-induced near-0 % interest rates (ZIRP). For most people, their largest investment is their home, and when the country faced widespread defaults and a housing depression, the government stepped in to bail out banks and homeowners.

As an outcome of these bailouts (or "stabilization"), Boomers and GenX homeowners benefited the most from a generational perspective. Then and now.

Since the GFC, home prices have steadily increased, as expected with a generation (GFC + covid) of artificially low rates. The trade-off has been higher home prices and lower affordability for the subsequent generations. We were warning about these issues on this board all the way back during the TARP and QE days.

---

All of this is just getting away from the point. The "olds" could buy a house on the cheap and raise 5 kids on a single income. Yes, yes, I know they worked very hard.

Gen Z cannot do this.

---

No its the same point. Home prices have increased for a variety of reasons, the most important of which was long-term low interest rates

But also, the median house size in 1984 was ~1700 sq ft with small kitchens and fewer bedrooms. Also, home occupancy was higher at around 2.8-3.0 persons per household. In the 2020s, the median house size is around 2,300 sq ft, with an occupancy rate of less than 2.5 people per home (more single-person and fewer children). Prices on a per-sq-ft, per-occupancy basis have increased, but not as much as some think.

Not only have homes gotten larger with fewer people occupying them, but new builds are also much higher in quality and efficiency than they were in the 80s. How many new home buyers would want to live in the same home I lived in during the 80s, with the same HVAC, same hot water tank, same carpet and linoleum in the kitchen, no dedicated family room, etc?

---

OK now do the cost of that home at the time compared to the average salary. I have the stats if you don't know them

---

Sure, but don't use average salary, use average compensation. This will address issues for homeowners who have no salary or wages, such as retirees. As many as 30-40% of current homes are held by people who are likely retired or no longer working, primarily those aged 65+.

I will argue that homes, on a per-sq-ft basis, increased in price, but part of the affordability gap is offset by higher combined earnings.

backintexas2013 said:

---

What percentage of females do onlyfans?

You posting it again doesn't make it true. My opinions of what I see are just as valid as your opinions.

Do you have kids struggling or are you struggling? How come others are thriving?

It truly is easy to eat cheap and healthy. Just don't eat out

---

pretty sure the actual statistics are LESS THAN 1% of women on OnlyFans actually make money.

EclipseAg said:

---

BBRex said:

---

Quote:

---

Gen Z is not growing up in the same world or even universe that you did

---

True, but part of that is the relative wealth you grew up with and became accustomed to.

---

We often overlook this fact but it is a reality. Many kids today grow up around significantly more affluence than people in the '70s, '80s and '90s did.

As a kid, I lived in a solid middle class neighborhood. Everyone around me was the same socioeconomically. There were no poor kids; there were no rich kids. No one traveled extensively. No one had a big house.

In high school, everyone worked. Everyone.

Doing better than my parents was easy because outside of an 1,600-square-foot, three-bedroom home and a couple of cars, they had very little.

---

This post is very telling lol. You have no idea what you're talking about and you're basing your opinions of Gen Z based off of social media posts

The "relative wealth" argument is just false. Young adults today have far, far less buying power than their parents did. Most of them don't travel either. Owning a 1600ft, 3 bedroom house and two cars is an absolute pipe dream for all but the wealthiest. That is no longer a middle class living standard. You talking about how little your parents had when they lived in that situation is frankly hilarious, I hate talking about priveledge because it's become a racist canard but you were swimming in it and had no idea.

Most of them would also love to work in high school. Some do, but finding entry level jobs is a hell of a lot harder now. We have imported tens of millions of low skill workers since their parents were their age. Add in the fact that these jobs are starting to become automated and it's again telling that the olds think it's just a matter of getting up off the couch and finding a job.

EclipseAg said:

---

BBRex said:

---

Quote:

---

Gen Z is not growing up in the same world or even universe that you did

---

True, but part of that is the relative wealth you grew up with and became accustomed to.

---

We often overlook this fact but it is a reality. Many kids today grow up around significantly more affluence than people in the '70s, '80s and '90s did.

As a kid, I lived in a solid middle class neighborhood. Everyone around me was the same socioeconomically. There were no poor kids; there were no rich kids. No one traveled extensively. No one had a big house.

In high school, everyone worked. Everyone.

Doing better than my parents was easy because outside of an 1,600-square-foot, three-bedroom home and a couple of cars, they had very little.

---

but in Northwest Hills Austin in the mid 1980s we could ride our bikes to the local hobby store, build our tank models, play football in the street and in the cul de sac yards, run around in the middle of the night playing laser tag in neighbors bushes, mow the yard, wax the cars, swim in the pool.

life was spent outside nearly all the time other than school.

tysker said:

---

Keyno said:

---

tysker said:

---

Keyno said:

---

tysker said:

---

agracer said:

---

Keyno said:

---

I know this board skews "older" so I will try to be polite and respectful.

Gen Z is not growing up in the same world you grew up in. It's barely the same universe.

Everything is overpriced. Our government imports foreigners to compete for college spots and our government imports foreigners to compete for jobs. Our government has let in (and now is failing to deport) 50 million foreigners which drives up the costs of everything. Our government force isolated everyone for a few years. Our government allowed OnlyFans, which opened up the door for young, naive women to just become sex workers from their bedroom. There are many other reasons but that's good for now.

Gen Z cannot afford anything you could afford. Gen Z does not have the job prospects you had. Gen Z does not have the wife prospects you had. It is a sad situation for them, and I do not fault them for being unmotivated given these facts, but they will be the generation that gets this country straight again

---

The 1970's and 12%+ interest rates called and would like a word. Also, gas lines are next in line.

---

Rates and prices are inversely related.
One reason houses are relatively expensive is a decade-plus of government-sponsored and Fed-induced near-0 % interest rates (ZIRP). For most people, their largest investment is their home, and when the country faced widespread defaults and a housing depression, the government stepped in to bail out banks and homeowners.

As an outcome of these bailouts (or "stabilization"), Boomers and GenX homeowners benefited the most from a generational perspective. Then and now.

Since the GFC, home prices have steadily increased, as expected with a generation (GFC + covid) of artificially low rates. The trade-off has been higher home prices and lower affordability for the subsequent generations. We were warning about these issues on this board all the way back during the TARP and QE days.

---

All of this is just getting away from the point. The "olds" could buy a house on the cheap and raise 5 kids on a single income. Yes, yes, I know they worked very hard.

Gen Z cannot do this.

---

No its the same point. Home prices have increased for a variety of reasons, the most important of which was long-term low interest rates

But also, the median house size in 1984 was ~1700 sq ft with small kitchens and fewer bedrooms. Also, home occupancy was higher at around 2.8-3.0 persons per household. In the 2020s, the median house size is around 2,300 sq ft, with an occupancy rate of less than 2.5 people per home (more single-person and fewer children). Prices on a per-sq-ft, per-occupancy basis have increased, but not as much as some think.

Not only have homes gotten larger with fewer people occupying them, but new builds are also much higher in quality and efficiency than they were in the 80s. How many new home buyers would want to live in the same home I lived in during the 80s, with the same HVAC, same hot water tank, same carpet and linoleum in the kitchen, no dedicated family room, etc?

---

OK now do the cost of that home at the time compared to the average salary. I have the stats if you don't know them

---

Sure, but don't use average salary, use average compensation. This will address issues for homeowners who have no salary or wages, such as retirees. As many as 30-40% of current homes are held by people who are likely retired or no longer working, primarily those aged 65+.

I will argue that homes, on a per-sq-ft basis, increased in price, but part of the affordability gap is offset by higher combined earnings.

---

No I am not doing any of that.

1984: Median home price is 80K. Median salary is 25K (home price is 3.5 years income)

2026: Median home price is 420K. Median salary is 80K (home price is 6 years income).

Two of the major expenses that have risen the most -- houses and college educations -- both were affected by government manipulation in the marketplace. I know quite a few people who bought their first house not because of the price but because of cheap loans with little to no downpayment. Same with education loans. So that's a fair critique.

Out of curiosity I checked the zillow price for homes in the neighborhoods of all of my friends in high school. Today those homes are selling for 180k-280k, 1800 - 2500 sq ft. Solid middle class neighborhoods still in reasonably good school districts. Mortgage and escrow for those homes might run $2500/month. That's easily within reach of a household of two just starting out school teachers. Or one quality professional job making 90K+ and a stay at home mom.

I have 4 Gen Z kids and the biggest mistake I made with them is not forcing them to work from the time they were able. The 3 oldest didn't have jobs hardly at all all the way through college and they struggle in understanding the value of money, the value of hard work, what it's like to have a boss that you just have to take orders from, or having a job that God forbid cuts into their social time. The youngest got a job as soon as she turned 16 and is crushing everything in her HS senior year. It is night and day the difference in maturity and readiness for life that a simple restaurant job has given her. Not forcing all of my kids to earn a paycheck from the time they turned 16 forward was by far my biggest parenting mistake. By far.

There is nothing more important for success than a work ethic. And that can only be learned by working which most of Gen Z didn't do in HS or even college. And don't give me the BS about entry level jobs being hard to find. Don't be too proud to be a restaurant hostess, a busboy, a landscape helper, or really anything that generates a paycheck. It's not about building relevant work experience, it's simply about the experience of work.

When rates were low, yes I understand prices were higher. However, relative to your salary, cost to own the home (P&I, etc.) were about the same. I did the math when my son complained about it in 2022. Relative to his salary 2-years out of college the cost to buy/own a home was about the same as when I bought my first home 28-years earlier (7% Interest rate).

When rates when up a few years ago, yes ownership did take a bigger chunk of your income but that was only a few years ago. Gen Z too benefited from the low rates from 2008-2023(ish).

Every generation has different societal impacts or world events to deal with. Gen Z just seems to ***** a lot more b/c social media lets us hear everyone instead of just a few neighbors or co-workers.

Success in life all depends on YOU and what you make important.

I'm retiring in 3-weeks at <60 years old. My wife and I made sacrifices early in our marriage and raising our kids so we would have some stability as we got older. A few bad choices 20-years ago would mean I would still be working many more years.

Now if you want to talk about AI killing gen Z, then I honestly don't have a dog in that fight b/c I've mostly ignored it and can't speak one way or the other about it's potential impact.

Keyno said:

---

tysker said:

---

agracer said:

---

Keyno said:

---

I know this board skews "older" so I will try to be polite and respectful.

Gen Z is not growing up in the same world you grew up in. It's barely the same universe.

Everything is overpriced. Our government imports foreigners to compete for college spots and our government imports foreigners to compete for jobs. Our government has let in (and now is failing to deport) 50 million foreigners which drives up the costs of everything. Our government force isolated everyone for a few years. Our government allowed OnlyFans, which opened up the door for young, naive women to just become sex workers from their bedroom. There are many other reasons but that's good for now.

Gen Z cannot afford anything you could afford. Gen Z does not have the job prospects you had. Gen Z does not have the wife prospects you had. It is a sad situation for them, and I do not fault them for being unmotivated given these facts, but they will be the generation that gets this country straight again

---

The 1970's and 12%+ interest rates called and would like a word. Also, gas lines are next in line.

---

Rates and prices are inversely related.
One reason houses are relatively expensive is a decade-plus of government-sponsored and Fed-induced near-0 % interest rates (ZIRP). For most people, their largest investment is their home, and when the country faced widespread defaults and a housing depression, the government stepped in to bail out banks and homeowners.

As an outcome of these bailouts (or "stabilization"), Boomers and GenX homeowners benefited the most from a generational perspective. Then and now.

Since the GFC, home prices have steadily increased, as expected with a generation (GFC + covid) of artificially low rates. The trade-off has been higher home prices and lower affordability for the subsequent generations. We were warning about these issues on this board all the way back during the TARP and QE days.

---

All of this is just getting away from the point. The "olds" could buy a house on the cheap and raise 5 kids on a single income. Yes, yes, I know they worked very hard.

Gen Z cannot do this.

---

yes they can. they just don't want to buy homes they can afford.

This is a great point. I've talked/overheard lots of Conv. of younger folks wanting the granite counters, 3+ car garages (for their $50k trucks and Lexus SUV's), 4-bedrooms with 3000+ sq.ft. where the good schools are located. and complain those are priced to high. Also, still want their annual Mom + Dad get away to the Caribbean. A lot of them have a very unrealistic view of what daily life is like for most people.

I also work with a lot of Gen Z who DO NOT have new cars, have bought starter homes and work their tails off at work to show their worth and still have a good life and take modest vacations when they can.

Keyno said:

---

tysker said:

---

Keyno said:

---

tysker said:

---

agracer said:

---

Keyno said:

---

I know this board skews "older" so I will try to be polite and respectful.

Gen Z is not growing up in the same world you grew up in. It's barely the same universe.

Everything is overpriced. Our government imports foreigners to compete for college spots and our government imports foreigners to compete for jobs. Our government has let in (and now is failing to deport) 50 million foreigners which drives up the costs of everything. Our government force isolated everyone for a few years. Our government allowed OnlyFans, which opened up the door for young, naive women to just become sex workers from their bedroom. There are many other reasons but that's good for now.

Gen Z cannot afford anything you could afford. Gen Z does not have the job prospects you had. Gen Z does not have the wife prospects you had. It is a sad situation for them, and I do not fault them for being unmotivated given these facts, but they will be the generation that gets this country straight again

---

The 1970's and 12%+ interest rates called and would like a word. Also, gas lines are next in line.

---

Rates and prices are inversely related.
One reason houses are relatively expensive is a decade-plus of government-sponsored and Fed-induced near-0 % interest rates (ZIRP). For most people, their largest investment is their home, and when the country faced widespread defaults and a housing depression, the government stepped in to bail out banks and homeowners.

As an outcome of these bailouts (or "stabilization"), Boomers and GenX homeowners benefited the most from a generational perspective. Then and now.

Since the GFC, home prices have steadily increased, as expected with a generation (GFC + covid) of artificially low rates. The trade-off has been higher home prices and lower affordability for the subsequent generations. We were warning about these issues on this board all the way back during the TARP and QE days.

---

All of this is just getting away from the point. The "olds" could buy a house on the cheap and raise 5 kids on a single income. Yes, yes, I know they worked very hard.

Gen Z cannot do this.

---

No its the same point. Home prices have increased for a variety of reasons, the most important of which was long-term low interest rates

But also, the median house size in 1984 was ~1700 sq ft with small kitchens and fewer bedrooms. Also, home occupancy was higher at around 2.8-3.0 persons per household. In the 2020s, the median house size is around 2,300 sq ft, with an occupancy rate of less than 2.5 people per home (more single-person and fewer children). Prices on a per-sq-ft, per-occupancy basis have increased, but not as much as some think.

Not only have homes gotten larger with fewer people occupying them, but new builds are also much higher in quality and efficiency than they were in the 80s. How many new home buyers would want to live in the same home I lived in during the 80s, with the same HVAC, same hot water tank, same carpet and linoleum in the kitchen, no dedicated family room, etc?

---

OK now do the cost of that home at the time compared to the average salary. I have the stats if you don't know them

---

I ran the numbers and posted them on the last "GEN Z has it harder than any generation" thread. It's increased from an average of about 35% of average salary to about 40%. NO doubt the cost has gone up, but so have ways to spend money (streaming, coffee, vacations, new expensive cars, subscriptions, food dlivery, etc.)