I'm 43, which makes me an early-cohort Millenial (also a former Marine officer with 12 years in corporate finance). I'm old enough to remember when the thing for X-ers (and Boomers) to do was ridicule Millenials in the workforce. They said Gen Y were lazy, fragile, distracted, and needed constant handholding. I guess time has marched on because now it's X-ers and Millenials dumping on Zoomers.

The Gen Z-ers that I work with are all diligent, smart, and really care about doing a good job. Plus ca change, I suppose.

As bad as our school systems are and as much as we are concerned about Gen Z, the UK is just doomed. Their school system is complete trash, apparently. Watch a few of this guy's streams to see how they cannot do simple math, do not know the difference between a continent, a country or a city.

1st Generation Ag said:

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They said Gen Y were lazy, fragile, distracted, and needed constant handholding.

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As a 43 year old myself, I say that Gen Y are lazy, fragile, distracted, and need constant handholding.


And yes, having run a business I stand by that for the most part, with a few significant exceptions. But for every good to great one, there were 4 or 5 who were a waste of space and time but still demanded high pay with nothing to back it up. It's tough to take chances on people when they're swinging at a 20% success rate. I lump Z into the same group though.

Man I don't miss hiring...

1st Generation Ag said:

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I'm 43, which makes me an early-cohort Millenial (also a former Marine officer with 12 years in corporate finance). I'm old enough to remember when the thing for X-ers (and Boomers) to do was ridicule Millenials in the workforce. They said Gen Y were lazy, fragile, distracted, and needed constant handholding. I guess time has marched on because now it's X-ers and Millenials dumping on Zoomers.

The Gen Z-ers that I work with are all diligent, smart, and really care about doing a good job. Plus ca change, I suppose.

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I agree with your Gen Z assessments but Gen Y was crazy when they hit the workforce. My Fortune 500 employer started flying parents down for interviews to help kids check out the neighborhood.

agracer said:

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Keyno said:

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I know this board skews "older" so I will try to be polite and respectful.

Gen Z is not growing up in the same world you grew up in. It's barely the same universe.

Everything is overpriced. Our government imports foreigners to compete for college spots and our government imports foreigners to compete for jobs. Our government has let in (and now is failing to deport) 50 million foreigners which drives up the costs of everything. Our government force isolated everyone for a few years. Our government allowed OnlyFans, which opened up the door for young, naive women to just become sex workers from their bedroom. There are many other reasons but that's good for now.

Gen Z cannot afford anything you could afford. Gen Z does not have the job prospects you had. Gen Z does not have the wife prospects you had. It is a sad situation for them, and I do not fault them for being unmotivated given these facts, but they will be the generation that gets this country straight again

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The 1970's and 12%+ interest rates called and would like a word. Also, gas lines are next in line.

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the 80's and 17-18% asked you to hold its beer.

However, housing costs and school costs are unprecedentedly high.

Kaiser von Wilhelm said:

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1st Generation Ag said:

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They said Gen Y were lazy, fragile, distracted, and needed constant handholding.

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As a 43 year old myself, I say that Gen Y are lazy, fragile, distracted, and need constant handholding.

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Hey, I'm 43 too!

I see lots of Gen Z thriving. They work hard and sacrifice. There are ones who blame everyone and everything for not being able to afford the wonderful life they think is owed to them and that is what gets them labeled. Look at this thread for examples.

I think any new grad new employees maybstruggle to adjust to the workplace. Not a generational thing imo. There's nothing inherently wrong with the new Gen Z kids, except maybe their slang. Trying tonget a new girl to quit calling everyone bruh.

AGC said:

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It's a little understated that lifestyle creep isn't simply a phenomenon of entitled children.

All the talk about bigger houses misses that fewer smaller ones are being built because of how little money there is in it. Lots of multi family class A construction out there has created excess vacancy (at present) and competition for housing, but it's still class A. Builders and developers chase money and land is moving farther from the cities.

Used cars don't have the same delta they used to with new; government regs have driven up the base model cost of all of these nicer fancier cars, so saying someone has better isn't a great statement about their preferences.

It needs to be acknowledged that 'starter' isn't simply moving because it's what Gen Z wants and demands. They're pursuing what's available as much as anything else: they don't build or make these things or own the businesses.

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Oh for sure. I don't blame Gen Z for lifestyle creep. Mostly the Boomers who made that happen.

BonfireNerd04 said:

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Kaiser von Wilhelm said:

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1st Generation Ag said:

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They said Gen Y were lazy, fragile, distracted, and needed constant handholding.

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As a 43 year old myself, I say that Gen Y are lazy, fragile, distracted, and need constant handholding.

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Hey, I'm 43 too!

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I'm avoiding it as long as I can.

Maybe I'll take advantage of the 90 day window I'll have to enlist in the army.

bonfarr said:

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My point was that for the industrious kids many of the job opportunities we had as kids are no longer there. If a 12 year old wanted to make some money today could they get a paper route? I don't see very much residential newspaper delivery at all and when I lived in Houston rather than hire newsboys to sell papers on the corner the distributor rounded up homeless men to sell them.

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In the mid 70's, when the apparently abundant job opportunities supposedly existed that I couldn't find and the paper routes where all locked up, I walked down the street with a lawn mower, a manual hand edger and a broom knocking on doors. When the going rate was $20, I asked for $3 for a mow, $1 for edging and $1 to sweep up. I would bet I had a 99.9% hit rate. People would say no at first and when I told them the price they went in shock and said yes. 75% of them wanted me to come back each week and I could mow a yard whenever I wanted. Minimum wage was $3 an hour and I could knock out a yard in 30 minutes. $10 an hour working my own hours and I thought I was killing it.

The first thing I bought with my money was a box fan to use in my bedroom. That fan was really nice because we couldn't afford air conditioning and it made the 95 degree summer nights out in west Texas a little more bearable. That was back in the days when things were "easy".

For the "industrious kids" there will always be ample opportunities. They just don't drop out of the air in any era.

I think there's a selection bias in both directions. Online forums like Reddit are absolutely full of young doomers. But that's probably because they are chronically online and not getting stuff done. They have an external locus of control. They see themselves as hopeless victims. It's all boomers fault, rich people's fault, the government's fault… Anyone but their own fault.

The other young people getting stuff done will never be represented there because they're out making something of themselves.

Ogre09 said:

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I think any new grad new employees maybstruggle to adjust to the workplace. Not a generational thing imo. There's nothing inherently wrong with the new Gen Z kids, except maybe their slang. Trying tonget a new girl to quit calling everyone bruh.

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My niece calls everyone bruh and she is 7

I had a dog that called everyone bruh.

Jeeper79 said:

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I think there's a selection bias in both directions. Online forums like Reddit are absolutely full of young doomers. But that's probably because they are chronically online and not getting stuff done. They have an external locus of control. They see themselves as hopeless victims. It's all boomers fault, rich people's fault, the government's fault… Anyone but their own fault.

The other young people getting stuff done will never be represented there because they're out making something of themselves.

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Outstanding post and so very true. Look back on this thread where it's never the person's fault. It's also never high expectations. They think they should be living rich right out of college. Heaven forbid they live in a starter home or not eat out a few times a week.

backintexas2013 said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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I think there's a selection bias in both directions. Online forums like Reddit are absolutely full of young doomers. But that's probably because they are chronically online and not getting stuff done. They have an external locus of control. They see themselves as hopeless victims. It's all boomers fault, rich people's fault, the government's fault… Anyone but their own fault.

The other young people getting stuff done will never be represented there because they're out making something of themselves.

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Outstanding post and so very true. Look back on this thread where it's never the person's fault. It's also never high expectations. They think they should be living rich right out of college. Heaven forbid they live in a starter home or not eat out a few times a week.

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That's intergenerational. Living as a victim is one of the most common and sure ways for misery and humans have done it for a millennia.

Most of them want a job where they can 100% work from home, doing tasks that don't cause any stress, and get paid a bunch of money to do it.

Kids try that these days and the HOA fines the homeowners, then calls the cops on the kid. Meanwhile some money changed hands and the "appr9ved" crew shows up with 6 guys, only one of which is here legally and theyre barely being payed...

OF COURSE it will be much worse in the UK

filled now with leftists, socialists, millions of illegals, and a large Islamist group that wants to implement Sharia

we are seeing in Federal Reserve numbers that the youngest in the workforce are not making any money / no savings and obviously are not able to purchase homes.

actual statistics are showing this youngest generation not doing as well as the prior generation- which is the FIRST time that has happened in US history

so something is going on.

We focused on two things with our twin daughters:
1. Giving them a work ethic. It amazes me how many college grads now have never had a part time job or even chores / tasks for parents, grandparents, etc. that reinforce a) income is earned from work, and b) income can be increased by seeking opportunities to earn.
2. It is OK when people have an opinion that differs from yours. We can all learn from others and practice civil discourse best by listening and reasoning. Sometimes we learn what not to do and what to avoid.

Additionally, I'd say it was easy for me: my main mission was to set the example with their mother.

GaryClare said:

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bonfarr said:

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My point was that for the industrious kids many of the job opportunities we had as kids are no longer there. If a 12 year old wanted to make some money today could they get a paper route? I don't see very much residential newspaper delivery at all and when I lived in Houston rather than hire newsboys to sell papers on the corner the distributor rounded up homeless men to sell them.

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In the mid 70's, when the apparently abundant job opportunities supposedly existed that I couldn't find and the paper routes where all locked up, I walked down the street with a lawn mower, a manual hand edger and a broom knocking on doors. When the going rate was $20, I asked for $3 for a mow, $1 for edging and $1 to sweep up. I would bet I had a 99.9% hit rate. People would say no at first and when I told them the price they went in shock and said yes. 75% of them wanted me to come back each week and I could mow a yard whenever I wanted. Minimum wage was $3 an hour and I could knock out a yard in 30 minutes. $10 an hour working my own hours and I thought I was killing it.

The first thing I bought with my money was a box fan to use in my bedroom. That fan was really nice because we couldn't afford air conditioning and it made the 95 degree summer nights out in west Texas a little more bearable. That was back in the days when things were "easy".

For the "industrious kids" there will always be ample opportunities. They just don't drop out of the air in any era.

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Was your street uphill, both ways, gramps?

As time has gone on, it is clear which generation denigrated our culture, society, and long term economy for selfish gain. Which gen will be the ones left holding the bag? We shall see. But the bag is growing pretty full of **** at this point and reeks.

Mike Rowe was just on Fox this morning. His foundation, Mike Rowe Works (.com) has scholarships and funds to assist folks in learning the trades.

He also said something interesting that I had not heard couched this way. The growth in AI, data centers to support, and as a result of both the OBBB and Trump's negotiating trade deals and investments in the US is estimated to exceed $10 trillion in infrastructure and construction related projects.

His source for that number…? He was sitting at a dinner across from Larry Fink of BlackRock. Who also told Mike what a great program he has and how it needs to grow massively to meet demand.

Lots of money to be made for anyone who doesn't mind sweat, the sun, the heat, sometimes cold, dirt and having to really wash their hands before eating or doing much of anything.

The money and opportunity is there for those willing to work and give up pursuit of their non-binary, non-denomination studies of the trans-alphabet acceptances and its impact on flag colors in 3rd world countries.

Get to work kids and quit your *****ing.

My son will graduate next year and is seriously considering the trades. He is in a competitive school district and his grades and SAT scores are above average compared to his peers. Getting into A&M would be a challenge though and he has looked at other schools but doesn't have a clear picture of what he wants to do yet. He has started asking me about the process of getting some type of trade certification recently. Based on the types of things he likes to tinker with I believe if the trades are what he wants he should become an electrician.

The good thing is he is pretty basic, he is tight with his money and doesn't get wrapped up in expensive clothes or cars. He drives the 13 year old F-150 we gave him and he has never once mentioned a desire for a newer flashier vehicle and some of the kids at his school have some outrageously expensive wheels for a teen.

bonfarr said:

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My son will graduate next year and is seriously considering the trades. He is in a competitive school district and his grades and SAT scores are above average compared to his peers. Getting into A&M would be a challenge though and he has looked at other schools but doesn't have a clear picture of what he wants to do yet. He has started asking me about the process of getting some type of trade certification recently. Based on the types of things he likes to tinker with I believe if the trades are what he wants he should become an electrician.

The good thing is he is pretty basic, he is tight with his money and doesn't get wrapped up in expensive clothes or cars. He drives the 13 year old F-150 we gave him and he has never once mentioned a desire for a newer flashier vehicle and some of the kids at his school have some outrageously expensive wheels for a teen.

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Used to be a lot of those kids would go to A&M and get a construction science degree. But now I see more go to places like Sam Houston. So if you or your son want to still pursue the college degree for him, those paths are available.

Congrats to you on being open minded enough to support these alternatives.

flown-the-coop said:

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Mike Rowe was just on Fox this morning. His foundation, Mike Rowe Works (.com) has scholarships and funds to assist folks in learning the trades.

He also said something interesting that I had not heard couched this way. The growth in AI, data centers to support, and as a result of both the OBBB and Trump's negotiating trade deals and investments in the US is estimated to exceed $10 trillion in infrastructure and construction related projects.

His source for that number…? He was sitting at a dinner across from Larry Fink of BlackRock. Who also told Mike what a great program he has and how it needs to grow massively to meet demand.

Lots of money to be made for anyone who doesn't mind sweat, the sun, the heat, sometimes cold, dirt and having to really wash their hands before eating or doing much of anything.

The money and opportunity is there for those willing to work and give up pursuit of their non-binary, non-denomination studies of the trans-alphabet acceptances and its impact on flag colors in 3rd world countries.

Get to work kids and quit your *****ing.

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Do they pay enough for a taxpayer to eat on better than toast and jam?

HS kids graduating with welder and HVAC certifications can easily pull down 6 figures at 18 years old with just a bit of hustle.

Hell, my cousin's 19yo college dropout (who had a partial ride to a small school to play baseball) was pulling down over $150k as a lineman.

He used some of that free cash for booger sugar so it derailed, but he has since righted the ship and is married with a girl restarting his "career", but had he kept the proverbial nose clean, with ice storms and hurricanes / derechos then pulling in close to $200k would be feasible.

And what's wrong with toast & jam?

1st Generation Ag said:

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I'm 43, which makes me an early-cohort Millenial (also a former Marine officer with 12 years in corporate finance). I'm old enough to remember when the thing for X-ers (and Boomers) to do was ridicule Millenials in the workforce. They said Gen Y were lazy, fragile, distracted, and needed constant handholding. I guess time has marched on because now it's X-ers and Millenials dumping on Zoomers.

The Gen Z-ers that I work with are all diligent, smart, and really care about doing a good job. Plus ca change, I suppose.

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I will say this...while I have been pleasantly surprised with the work ethic of the Gen Z'ers we have hired in recent years...I have also noticed that they often times have unrealistic expectations in terms of their career track and "advancing". Some of them expect a promotion to management within 1-2 yrs of being hired...it's crazy. I get it, they are pinched with high costs of everything, but some of these kids are out of their mind and must have been taught how amazing ans exceptional they were their whole lives.

But the craziest thing I have noticed, is that they will straight up share information regarding bonuses/raises etc. amongst their peers. I was always raised to avoid talking about politics or money at work, but many of these kids were raised differently. Me and my coworkers NEVER shared our salaries or bonuses with each other in the earlier 2000's. Everyone knew not to do that. We have addressed this with them multiple times over the years and they still continue to do it.

Electricians working in the Data Centers in DFW are making $250k+ according to an interview I saw from a business insider.

bonfarr said:

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My son will graduate next year and is seriously considering the trades. He is in a competitive school district and his grades and SAT scores are above average compared to his peers. Getting into A&M would be a challenge though and he has looked at other schools but doesn't have a clear picture of what he wants to do yet. He has started asking me about the process of getting some type of trade certification recently. Based on the types of things he likes to tinker with I believe if the trades are what he wants he should become an electrician.

The good thing is he is pretty basic, he is tight with his money and doesn't get wrapped up in expensive clothes or cars. He drives the 13 year old F-150 we gave him and he has never once mentioned a desire for a newer flashier vehicle and some of the kids at his school have some outrageously expensive wheels for a teen.

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Tell him to look into instrument tech associates programs

Ogre09 said:

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bonfarr said:

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My son will graduate next year and is seriously considering the trades. He is in a competitive school district and his grades and SAT scores are above average compared to his peers. Getting into A&M would be a challenge though and he has looked at other schools but doesn't have a clear picture of what he wants to do yet. He has started asking me about the process of getting some type of trade certification recently. Based on the types of things he likes to tinker with I believe if the trades are what he wants he should become an electrician.

The good thing is he is pretty basic, he is tight with his money and doesn't get wrapped up in expensive clothes or cars. He drives the 13 year old F-150 we gave him and he has never once mentioned a desire for a newer flashier vehicle and some of the kids at his school have some outrageously expensive wheels for a teen.

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Tell him to look into instrument tech associates programs

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Is that the same as an Instrumentation Associates? My Dad taught that course at Victoria College for 5 or 6 years. Grads got jobs in plants sitting at a terminal but from what I understand they experience a lot of layoffs

https://www.sanjac.edu/programs/areas-of-study/manufacturing/instrumentation/

https://www.brazosport.edu/areas-of-study/chemical-and-refining-industries/instrumentation-technology/

https://www.lonestar.edu/programs-of-study/instrumentationtechnology-aas.htm

https://gc.edu/academic-career-programs/public-services-business-industry/instrumentation-technology.php


Install, repair, calibrate, replace instrumentation in plants. Automated valves and instruments that measure process parameters (pressure, flow, temperature, density, voltage, amperage, power, speed, level, vibration, etc.). Always a shortage of good folks. And automation in the plants is only going to keep increasing. I've never seen any get laid off if they were halfway decent. Probably more cyclical if you're working construction or turnaround instead of directly for the operator. Easier on your body than a lot of trades. Need to be decent at math and logical thinking. Working outside on your feet most of the day. Pretty good gig imho.

1981 Monte Carlo said:

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But the craziest thing I have noticed, is that they will straight up share information regarding bonuses/raises etc. amongst their peers. I was always raised to avoid talking about politics or money at work, but many of these kids were raised differently. Me and my coworkers NEVER shared our salaries or bonuses with each other in the earlier 2000's. Everyone knew not to do that. We have addressed this with them multiple times over the years and they still continue to do it.

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Better get used to it. I've shared my salary/bonus info with coworkers for 25+ years. I share it with the kids graduating today so they know what to expect in industry. Leadership enjoys keeping it hidden so they can screw people over, and people are sick of it.

I won't apply for any jobs that don't list salary in the req. That's a clear indicator they want to pay less than market rates.

Pay people fairly and you don't have to worry about them discussing salary. Pay the new person off the street, doing the same job at the same grade, $20k more, and people are rightly going to get frustrated.

I'm 56. None of these jobs discussed here sound very fun.

Can I get a job in this economy that pays you for writing books on the Civil War, watching college football, going to the beach and dating cute women?

LMCane said:

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I'm 56. None of these jobs discussed here sound very fun.

Can I get a job in this economy that pays you for writing books on the Civil War, watching college football, going to the beach and dating cute women?

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Yes if you can put together an entertaining YouTube channel.