For years we have heard how homeschool kids are socially stunted.

I'm around a ton of them and while by no means are all the negative tech and internet platforms missing, I am constantly seeing how they are better prepared than their average peers.

They drive, they own lawn businesses, they have jobs, they have a plan for after graduating, they are involved with youth groups and sports teams, they can hold a conversation with an adult, they date, they have manners…

That's certainly not across the board, just like it's not across the board that every public school kid is behind. But it's a pretty stark difference on average.

I don't understand the driving thing either. I couldn't wait to get my learner's permit at 15 in 1979. My wife grew up in the country and her parents let her take the car at age 13 up and back from the local country store.

My boys couldn't wait to drive at 16. The wife and I teamed up getting them ready. My job when they were just about there was to ride with them learning how to get on the interstate safely. We would take every on ramp around Memphis, get off at the next exit, and then do it again. Some close calls as they learned what it meant to "look, accelerate smoothly, and blend into traffic", lol.

MasonB said:

---

For years we have heard how homeschool kids are socially stunted.

I'm around a ton of them and while by no means are all the negative tech and internet platforms missing, I am constantly seeing how they are better prepared than their average peers.

They drive, they own lawn businesses, they have jobs, they have a plan for after graduating, they are involved with youth groups and sports teams, they can hold a conversation with an adult, they date, they have manners…

That's certainly not across the board, just like it's not across the board that every public school kid is behind. But it's a pretty stark difference on average.

---

Regret I can anoint you with only a single star.

I think a lot of it has to do with how willing you are to be your kid's personal chauffeur.

My parents never drove me anywhere that didn't have to do with school or church. I couldn't wait to get my D/L so I if I wanted to go somewhere I could.

YouBet said:

---

Buck Turgidson said:

---

These threads stereotyping whole generations are always ******ed. This is as dumb as the whiny threads crying about boomers.

---

Agreed. Having said that, Gen X is the best generation that grew up in peak America.

---

Which made the boomers the best parents? :-)

Their mom didn't force it. The kids never pushed to get a license and showed zero interest in driving. Both are in college and still haven't felt the need to change anything. If that were my kid I guess I wouldn't force it either but once they turned 18 the days of getting chauffeured around in moms's minivan would be over.

Rubicante said:

---

I think a lot of it has to do with how willing you are to be your kid's personal chauffeur.

My parents never drove me anywhere that didn't have to do with school or church. I couldn't wait to get my D/L so I if I wanted to go somewhere I could.

---

That's the parent's angle for sure, but there's also the kid's angle.

I couldn't wait to drive and it had nothing to do with my parents not wanting to be my chauffeur. It was all about independence, doing grown up things, and connecting with friends easily.

The same thing drove my kids to get their license, although we were going to insist on it if they didn't.

I'm not sure about all of that. As a kid I remember watching PSA videos on what to do in case of a nuclear attack. Crouch under your desk or go into the hallway. If you are at home stuff towels and blankets along the cracks in the doorway and if someone dies of radiation sickness you put them in a closed room, wrap them in sheets and write their name on a tag and tie it to their big toe. I watched this at school before I was ten years old. My generation had constant reminder that the big bad Commies wanted to kill or enslave all of us and we didn't learn until the 90s how seriously ass backward the Soviets actually were. To me that seems at least an equivalent of living with the threat of a terror attack.

This same stuff was said about millennials.

I couldn't wait to get a driver's license. Of course, part of the reason was because if I wanted money, I had to have a job. Getting to work meant being able to drive. But even without the need for a job, I wanted that freedom.

Frok said:

---

Dogging on the latest young generation is typical, they'll be fine. Young people aren't mature.

---

Age and maturity have zero relationship. Some of the oldest folks I know are still immature. Older and wiser are also unrelated.

One thing that sucks for teens today is the shrinking number of part time job opportunities. By the time I was a Senior in HS I had already had four jobs and the majority of my peers had held jobs of some type or another.

Today while the opportunities for kids to work still exist the number of jobs available to them are far fewer. By the 1980s about 60% of teens held jobs and today it is around 35%. Not necessarily because they are lazy but the jobs have been taken up by the elderly and the demand for teens time through activities at school has increased. My kids are involved in athletics and band and they have practices after school until 5:30-7 several days a week. To play volleyball in school you also have to be heavily involved in outside tournament volleyball so an additional two days during the week of practice and weekend tournaments are tied up. More elderly people are entering the workforce for service jobs and if you are an employer do you give it to a 16 year old and try to work around their schedule or do you hire a 65 year old man with no obligations where you don't have to deal with a teenager?

AGHouston11 said:

---

It's amazing at how many don't care much about getting a driver's license as soon as possible!

---

It's really not that hard to figure out when all of their friends are online. We desperately wanted to drive and our generations because that's how you got to your friends. That's how you escaped.

My Gen Z kid is an extremely hard worker.

Over_ed said:

---

YouBet said:

---

Buck Turgidson said:

---

These threads stereotyping whole generations are always ******ed. This is as dumb as the whiny threads crying about boomers.

---

Agreed. Having said that, Gen X is the best generation that grew up in peak America.

---

Which made the boomers the best parents? :-)

---

No, my parents are Silent Generation. Both still kicking!

I would argue there aren't as many low skilled, entry level jobs available for Gen Zers. Many of them can and would work but frankly there are fewer available positions due to higher minimum wages, automation, and older workers not moving outward and upward

Queso1 said:

---

My Gen Z kid is an extremely hard worker.

---

Our new hires have been great where I work. With very few exceptions. I am dismayed by many of the Gen Z'ers I see out in public in day to day life, but encouraged by the ones I have worked with in the corporate world. I think our company does a really good job of hiring and attracting quality talent.

People tend to forget the # of loser kids they grew up with back in the day.

Yup.

Us millennials still catch strays bullets from Gen X and boomers. I have to remind them when I hear it - I grew up driving a stick, have owned 3 houses now, have to take BP meds, and hang overs are a 2 or 3 day problem.

Enviroag02 said:

---

I think we've all heard the reports about Gen Z. They don't want to work. They don't want to drive. They don't want to get married. They don't want kids.

I'm actually seeing this play out in my nieces and nephews. First, they weren't in a rush to get their drivers license when they turned 16. What the heck is that about? Then they dropped college courses because they weren't motivated. Now they're saying there is no hope for them to be able to obtain a job that will provide them with the life comforts that their parents provided for them. They have no interest in entry level jobs. They can't see beyond the first few years an envision what a career might look like. In fact, one of nephews' dream is become an economics college professor, but he's not willing to go to school for it because he doesn't think that profession will pay enough. He grew up in a household with an income > 350,000/yr.

Where is this all coming from? Is it the relative successes of Gen X and Y setting unrealistic expectations or is it a lack of motivation and vision driven by a reliance on social media and its inherent unrealistic expectations?

This won't end well.

---

Yeah but there will be an end.

MasonB said:

---

For years we have heard how homeschool kids are socially stunted.

I'm around a ton of them and while by no means are all the negative tech and internet platforms missing, I am constantly seeing how they are better prepared than their average peers.

They drive, they own lawn businesses, they have jobs, they have a plan for after graduating, they are involved with youth groups and sports teams, they can hold a conversation with an adult, they date, they have manners…

That's certainly not across the board, just like it's not across the board that every public school kid is behind. But it's a pretty stark difference on average.

---

Homeschooling does a good job of producing well above average products. Nobody falls through the cracks. Education serves an actual purpose.

It mostly fails at cultivating scholars, innovators, polymaths, etc., if the curriculum and nurturing are not rigorous enough. When homeschools try to address this shortcoming, they tend to make the mistake of showering the GT kids with more work, when what they actually need is the opposite. However, teachers who are merely "above average" have trouble dealing with the exceptional students at all levels, including public schools. The difference is the homeschoolers may not have critical mass of iron around to sharpen them.

The lack of dating is a real thing.

Both of my daughters. 1 wants to the other couldn't care less.

it's very sad for mom.

MemphisAg1 said:

---

I don't understand the driving thing either. I couldn't wait to get my learner's permit at 15 in 1979. My wife grew up in the country and her parents let her take the car at age 13 up and back from the local country store.

My boys couldn't wait to drive at 16. The wife and I teamed up getting them ready. My job when they were just about there was to ride with them learning how to get on the interstate safely. We would take every on ramp around Memphis, get off at the next exit, and then do it again. Some close calls as they learned what it meant to "look, accelerate smoothly, and blend into traffic", lol.

---

Your wife and I had the same experience. I may have been a little younger driving to the country store and back. Was driving all farm vehicles to one degree or another starting around 8 within our farm and on our roads leading to the fields. But to the local country store and back was probably around 10-11. I drove my date to our 8th grade dance.

Unfortunately I wasn't raising my children on a farm so they had to wait until they were about 11 before I let them have their first driving experience. It was in the countryside at a family property we would visit during the holidays and summers and remained their place to learn driving until about 13 and then we started to let them drive us from the country property into the local town and back. They loved it and were hooked. They were very comfortable behind the wheel by the time they reached their permit year and it became legal for them to drive on the roads.

Millions of suburban and urban children should be sent out to our farms to work and learn things. This country would be a much better place for it. But I digress….

So...upper millenial here...I pretty much had to be forced to get my license. I just didn't care. I grew up in the middle of nowhere, small school full of kids with zero motivation or ambition, whereas I decided in elementary school that I would attend A&M and become an engineer, and applied myself thusly. So there was nothing to do, and I had zero friends to do anything with even if there was something to do. So for me it was...yeah, I'll get it eventually, but what's the rush?

And keep in mind...a lot of these kids are in big cities where a car is a royal PITA.

Now...a year and a half later when I got my first gf, that obviously changed the calculus, but I think a lot of you are blowing the license thing out of proportion.

1981 Monte Carlo said:

---

Rapier108 said:

---

Quote:

---

but also life is less fair.

---

Life has never been fair.

One of the first truths of life my dad taught me when I was a kid.

To make it "fair" means everyone is equally miserable.

---

I will just say they face certain challenges previous generations didn't. I am not advocating for socialism here.

In his mid 20's, my father was able to get the first home for our family for like $70k in Houston, on a salary of $35-40k I believe. Zoned to solid schools.

This is just one example, but you understand how something like home ownership is much more difficult for people in their 20's and 30's now right? It was tough for us to buy our first home in 2013 to be honest, but I am thankful I am not in my upper 20's low 30's trying to buy our first home now.

I think a lot of us would have turned out differently had social media been an integral part of our daily lives too. Takes humility to put yourself in other peoples shoes. Some of the founding fathers would have been deadbeats if born in the early 2000's.

---

Rational thinking. It will go over many heads though. And few are prepared to ask why or contemplate where this trend is heading.

There are going to be some alphas that are going to dominate the next several years

My kids got their licenses at 16, but a lot of their friends didn't, and one of the biggest reasons why was the high cost of insurance and their parents' inability or unwillingness to pay it.

The TV show, Wheel of Fortune, will have to search far and wide to find contestants. Not to mention Jeopardy.

Jv106 said:

---

Yup.

Us millennials still catch strays bullets from Gen X and boomers. I have to remind them when I hear it - I grew up driving a stick, have owned 3 houses now, have to take BP meds, and hang overs are a 2 or 3 day problem.

---

Yep, it's very similar. It's easy to insult the youngest generation for being immature.

Are there issues? Of course. But we created them so I guess we are to blame.

This is squarely on the shoulders of GenX. We were alone, found eachother, and got tough out of necessity. We are pragmatic, determined, self reliant, though a bit cynical, but out generational response to being independent and self reliant by necessity was to coddle and baby Gen Z so that they are relatively soft and weak and unsure. We didn't prepare them for adulthood properly.


To be fair, it isn't all of them. My sister and bro-in-law have raised three every capable and motivated GenZ young adults BUT a lot of their peers are much less so.

Enviroag02 said:

---

They don't want to work.

---

TBF, most Gen X/Y people don't either, but we have to.

Waffledynamics said:

---

This same stuff was said about millennials.

---

I don't remember millennials in droves not wanting to drive. Maybe they didn't but I don't remember that.

Only half way done but so much good information here if we want to instill better values in our children and ourselves. I don't know much about the schools Ian Rowe runs but I love his 4 pillars of success that each student must recite every day:



Truth be told, I was really concerned about Gen Z but the more of them I meet and work with the better I feel. Yes, many our lost but the one's that have their head screwed on straight can spot BS from a mile away and are done with it.

Smittyfubar said:

---

I don't get the not wanting to drive or get their license. That was Lola a right of passage growing up. Me and all my friends could not wait until the day we could drive.

---

Thanks to the internet, people have more exposure to people in other countries that didn't go all in on car culture, and see it as a better lifestyle than American car-dependent suburban sprawl. Especially if you don't realistically expect to get married and have kids any time soon, since that's the demographic that suburbia was designed for.

Plus, vehicles gotten more expensive. Traffic has gotten heavier. Graduated licensing rules restrict teenagers from driving around with other teenagers. It makes driving less appealing.

FWIW, I got my license when I was 18, and my first car (Dad's hand-me-down Ford) when I was 20. So I never really associated "freedom" with driving, but with going to A&M and living relatively independently walking everywhere.

And I would be happy if American car culture were to die with the Boomers.

94chem said:

---

MasonB said:

---

For years we have heard how homeschool kids are socially stunted.

I'm around a ton of them and while by no means are all the negative tech and internet platforms missing, I am constantly seeing how they are better prepared than their average peers.

They drive, they own lawn businesses, they have jobs, they have a plan for after graduating, they are involved with youth groups and sports teams, they can hold a conversation with an adult, they date, they have manners…

That's certainly not across the board, just like it's not across the board that every public school kid is behind. But it's a pretty stark difference on average.

---

Homeschooling does a good job of producing well above average products. Nobody falls through the cracks. Education serves an actual purpose.

It mostly fails at cultivating scholars, innovators, polymaths, etc., if the curriculum and nurturing are not rigorous enough. When homeschools try to address this shortcoming, they tend to make the mistake of showering the GT kids with more work, when what they actually need is the opposite. However, teachers who are merely "above average" have trouble dealing with the exceptional students at all levels, including public schools. The difference is the homeschoolers may not have critical mass of iron around to sharpen them.

---

I've had a few students in my classes who were homeschooled. Mostly by very conservative parents. The ones I've heard talk about it are now mostly skewing liberal and feel like their parents were trying too hard to control them.