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We may need to hire the Croatian officials. They made it to the WC Finals from a country of only 4 million people.

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Only 4 million people, but a 3 division pro soccer pyramid with around 36ish teams if i remember correctly. Top division has about ten. Could you imagine Houston or Dallas having 10 Dynamo level teams plus 2 minor leagues? Because thats what they have. With a big system like that scouting, identifying, and developing talent gets a lot easier. We need to double, triple, quadruple the amount of teams and academies we have. Plus a bunch of other stuff, like getting youth programs to focus on development over winning, etc.

heddleston said:

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Quote:

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We may need to hire the Croatian officials. They made it to the WC Finals from a country of only 4 million people.

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Only 4 million people, but a 3 division pro soccer pyramid with around 36ish teams if i remember correctly. Top division has about ten. Could you imagine Houston or Dallas having 10 Dynamo level teams plus 2 minor leagues? Because thats what they have. With a big system like that scouting, identifying, and developing talent gets a lot easier. We need to double, triple, quadruple the amount of teams and academies we have. Plus a bunch of other stuff, like getting youth programs to focus on development over winning, etc.

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Also, just the amount of land we have to cover in the US a big impediment.

PatAg said:

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heddleston said:

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Quote:

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We may need to hire the Croatian officials. They made it to the WC Finals from a country of only 4 million people.

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Only 4 million people, but a 3 division pro soccer pyramid with around 36ish teams if i remember correctly. Top division has about ten. Could you imagine Houston or Dallas having 10 Dynamo level teams plus 2 minor leagues? Because thats what they have. With a big system like that scouting, identifying, and developing talent gets a lot easier. We need to double, triple, quadruple the amount of teams and academies we have. Plus a bunch of other stuff, like getting youth programs to focus on development over winning, etc.

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Also, just the amount of land we have to cover in the US a big impediment.

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This got me thinking. Should Texas youth development secede from US soccer federation? What could that look like?

It would be 3 divisions

North
East
South

Ain't nothing in West

MookieBlaylock said:

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carl spacklers hat said:

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We may need to hire the Croatian officials. They made it to the WC Finals from a country of only 4 million people.

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Wouldn't work, Croatia isn't working with entitled, pampered children. Who have to buy $300 kids with matching bags. The style of play you see out of the Croats comes from a bunch of hungry dogs. American footballers, as a whole, aren't hungry, and our style of play reflects that. Klinnsman, Arena, Bradley, whoever is next and likely to qualify for 2022, doesn't matter. Expectations should be moderated to account for how soft we are as a soccer country.

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Now that's a load of b.s.

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Gonna need more detail than that.

PatAg said:

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heddleston said:

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Quote:

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We may need to hire the Croatian officials. They made it to the WC Finals from a country of only 4 million people.

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Only 4 million people, but a 3 division pro soccer pyramid with around 36ish teams if i remember correctly. Top division has about ten. Could you imagine Houston or Dallas having 10 Dynamo level teams plus 2 minor leagues? Because thats what they have. With a big system like that scouting, identifying, and developing talent gets a lot easier. We need to double, triple, quadruple the amount of teams and academies we have. Plus a bunch of other stuff, like getting youth programs to focus on development over winning, etc.

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Also, just the amount of land we have to cover in the US a big impediment.

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true. And our top tier league still makes its player fly commercial.

If it isn't a load of B.S. then explain why the U.S. lags its international peers in the soccer community? Explain how a U.S. national team that need only a tie at Trinidad and Tobago to qualify for the WC gets outplayed the entire match? Explain why the U.S., with its wealth of superior athletes, can't field a team to get out of CONCACAF qualifiers? You might not like the message but the situation is what it is. Soccer in the U.S. is a rich kid's sport due to the pay-to-play system, which keeps a lot of kids out of the system because they simply can't afford the price of admission. If you want to open your eyes, go visit some foreign academies and watch. You'd be shocked at the gap between our academy programs here and those of our foreign counterparts. The "head-in-the-sand" mentality isn't going to fix the issue.

I would put many items before the pay to play aspect, though it certainly doesnt help the matter.

1. Culture- simply put, soccer is
at best fourth on the sports hierarchy here. Relatively few kids grow up wanting to have the winning shot at the world cup. Far far more dream of catching a td in the super bowl or or hitting a buzzer beat in the nba final. The cycle of hierarchy is repeated daily via espn and other usa based sports media. Just take a look at the geneal board and see how prevalent the ignorant view of soccer is.

Conversely, soccer is the only sport that really matters in those countries with soccer success. The only sport. Until soccer passes up other sports up in local prestige, the lag will continue to exist in our national teams success. Attention is divided and it shows

2. History- we have none.

3. How soccer is structured in the states and college- if you have the talent, college is a bad decision for ones game. I have a friend from Stanford who played tennis, won four national championships and the arthur ashe award and he said college was the worst sports decision of his life. 18-22 year old soccer players need to be training with the pros. This is starting to change. Title 9 doesnt help either.

The coaching is starting to change too. However, the days of know nothing dads coaching soccer need to go. Fundamentals need to be the focus, winning secondary. We won everything (clint was on my little league team), but my left foot never got any better.
4. Small tent- widen the tent by making the game cheaper. How many clint dempseys have fallen through the gap because they couldnt pay? His family barely made it. Barely.

I still think the top issues are exposure and prestige, specific to the united states. Fix those and you will draw more kids and families. Unfortunately, Ronaldo and messi, even being the biggest sports stars in the world, still dont out draw the lebrons, kds, tom bradys, etc. In the states.

The worm is turning, just really slowly.

Soccer in the United States is still a toddler compared to the grown man programs across Europe and in South America.

carl spacklers hat said:

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If it isn't a load of B.S. then explain why the U.S. lags its international peers in the soccer community? Explain how a U.S. national team that need only a tie at Trinidad and Tobago to qualify for the WC gets outplayed the entire match? Explain why the U.S., with its wealth of superior athletes, can't field a team to get out of CONCACAF qualifiers? You might not like the message but the situation is what it is. Soccer in the U.S. is a rich kid's sport due to the pay-to-play system, which keeps a lot of kids out of the system because they simply can't afford the price of admission. If you want to open your eyes, go visit some foreign academies and watch. You'd be shocked at the gap between our academy programs here and those of our foreign counterparts. The "head-in-the-sand" mentality isn't going to fix the issue.

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My head isn't in the sand

But your hyperbole is

You talk about needing dogs and not entitled players

Croatian players make more than US players

A dog for your precious croatia refused to play and got sent home pretty much handicapping your dog's

That is the definition of entitlement

American players play balls to the wall and that is our strongest trait

Yes we live in a country where basketball as bad as it is rules

But to call our soccer players entitled is bs

They are shunned in Europe and have been for 40 years

Pretty decent (but super short) summarization of how US Soccer needs to change from TT:

Can't believe he and lalas are the voice of US soccer

But looking at it Donovan pos
And Thomas Dooley only played 4 games for us

carl spacklers hat said:

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If it isn't a load of B.S. then explain why the U.S. lags its international peers in the soccer community? Explain how a U.S. national team that need only a tie at Trinidad and Tobago to qualify for the WC gets outplayed the entire match? Explain why the U.S., with its wealth of superior athletes, can't field a team to get out of CONCACAF qualifiers? You might not like the message but the situation is what it is. Soccer in the U.S. is a rich kid's sport due to the pay-to-play system, which keeps a lot of kids out of the system because they simply can't afford the price of admission. If you want to open your eyes, go visit some foreign academies and watch. You'd be shocked at the gap between our academy programs here and those of our foreign counterparts. The "head-in-the-sand" mentality isn't going to fix the issue.

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This mindset is why your whole way of thinking is flawed.

This is also mostly BS, I played in the top Dallas league, no one on my teams were rich. Most top club teams have a system set in place now to pay for 'less privileged' .

I think a lot of people's opinions are based on outdated knowledge.

MookieBlaylock said:

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Can't believe he and lalas are the voice of US soccer

But looking at it Donovan pos
And Thomas Dooley only played 4 games for us

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I don't always agree or disagree with the guy, but I do wonder why we should be taking his opinion so seriously. He was basically a no one outside of MLS.

PatAg said:

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MookieBlaylock said:

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Can't believe he and lalas are the voice of US soccer

But looking at it Donovan pos
And Thomas Dooley only played 4 games for us

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I don't always agree or disagree with the guy, but I do wonder why we should be taking his opinion so seriously. He was basically a no one outside of MLS.

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Well we get 3rd rate Scottish and Mexican players
And a blonde english chick that managed to turn herself blackish

PatAg said:

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carl spacklers hat said:

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If it isn't a load of B.S. then explain why the U.S. lags its international peers in the soccer community? Explain how a U.S. national team that need only a tie at Trinidad and Tobago to qualify for the WC gets outplayed the entire match? Explain why the U.S., with its wealth of superior athletes, can't field a team to get out of CONCACAF qualifiers? You might not like the message but the situation is what it is. Soccer in the U.S. is a rich kid's sport due to the pay-to-play system, which keeps a lot of kids out of the system because they simply can't afford the price of admission. If you want to open your eyes, go visit some foreign academies and watch. You'd be shocked at the gap between our academy programs here and those of our foreign counterparts. The "head-in-the-sand" mentality isn't going to fix the issue.

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This mindset is why your whole way of thinking is flawed.

This is also mostly BS, I played in the top Dallas league, no one on my teams were rich. Most top club teams have a system set in place now to pay for 'less privileged' .

I think a lot of people's opinions are based on outdated knowledge.

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I have played with and against players that won MLS rookie of the year, played for the national team and players that are on the relay team with Usain Bolt

None of them are entitled and none of them are well off

This entitled bs theory is a joke

"This entitled bs theory is a joke"

100% agree. As stated above, I played in Dallas and while there were entitled teams, there were plenty that were not including my team of misfits.

Folks making those statements must not have kids playing today. Come to SA. A fair amount of our yearly fees go to Scholarships.

If the theory is true there should be a bunch of data on young inner city kids playing at an early age and then dropping out in their teens.

Final keeper kit color standings:




Interesting how the red end of the color spectrum dominated the tournament.

jeffk said:

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Final keeper kit color standings:




Interesting how the red end of the color spectrum dominated the tournament.

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Did you at least breakeven?

who?mikejones said:

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I would put many items before the pay to play aspect, though it certainly doesnt help the matter.

1. Culture- simply put, soccer is
at best fourth on the sports hierarchy here. Relatively few kids grow up wanting to have the winning shot at the world cup. Far far more dream of catching a td in the super bowl or or hitting a buzzer beat in the nba final. The cycle of hierarchy is repeated daily via espn and other usa based sports media. Just take a look at the geneal board and see how prevalent the ignorant view of soccer is.

Conversely, soccer is the only sport that really matters in those countries with soccer success. The only sport. Until soccer passes up other sports up in local prestige, the lag will continue to exist in our national teams success. Attention is divided and it shows

2. History- we have none.

3. How soccer is structured in the states and college- if you have the talent, college is a bad decision for ones game. I have a friend from Stanford who played tennis, won four national championships and the arthur ashe award and he said college was the worst sports decision of his life. 18-22 year old soccer players need to be training with the pros. This is starting to change. Title 9 doesnt help either.

The coaching is starting to change too. However, the days of know nothing dads coaching soccer need to go. Fundamentals need to be the focus, winning secondary. We won everything (clint was on my little league team), but my left foot never got any better.
4. Small tent- widen the tent by making the game cheaper. How many clint dempseys have fallen through the gap because they couldnt pay? His family barely made it. Barely.

I still think the top issues are exposure and prestige, specific to the united states. Fix those and you will draw more kids and families. Unfortunately, Ronaldo and messi, even being the biggest sports stars in the world, still dont out draw the lebrons, kds, tom bradys, etc. In the states.

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Just now getting to this thread now that I've been able to finally watch my DVR of the match. I think your comments are right on... And they're interrelated. As far as I know it, the US is the only country in the world that unloads college scholarships to athletes. It's set up a system where parents put their kids in sports for the explicit purpose of perhaps getting a scholarship. With the lack of men's soccer programs due to Title 9, it makes soccer a poor option (for men, for women on the other hand...).

But I don't think we're doomed to stay here. First, even with the US out of the World Cup, I think it got more media buzz than it did a decade ago. I could be wrong... I truly wasn't paying attention to soccer then (2010 was the first time I ever watched a game). As others have said, the sport is still in its infancy here.

Second, I feel like the college athletics culture in the US is nearing a tipping point. Between the financial loss for programs outside the Top 50 or so and looming issues of compensation and likeness rights, I think we're going to see a very different system by the end of the next decade. Maybe this is just wishful thinking on my part.

And finally, I think the issue of head trauma (amongst other injuries) in football is a factor as well. I have a feeling that a lot more parents will dissuade kids from playing football. I certainly will not be volunteering my 2 boys for it (but will allow it if they want to). If football starts declining, it will open the door for soccer.

fig96 said:

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OregonAggie said:

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I'm excited about our future so I definitely don't want to seem like a Debbie downer here. We've always had great goalies and I'm certain one will emerge. Someone has to take the damn job though. We haven't had a young guy step up and grab it yet

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Its definitely the one area we've had world class players for quite some time, and even now we've got a lot of younger guys in the euro leagues. Will be interesting to see who makes a move, there's no clear #1 for the first time in a long time.

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My kid is 7 and is in my opinion getting really good at this game. He has real power in his shots way above his peers and a nose for the goal. I just need to figure out how to get him into the system and have him ready for 2030.

Where r u?

Let me clarify a few things for you and you may better understand the point I'm making:

My head isn't in the sand - OK

But your hyperbole is - Debatable

You talk about needing dogs and not entitled players - I'm talking about the youth players in the respective countries. Croatian youth kids definitely do NOT have the same type of upbringing our American kids do. Those kids are hungrier by circumstance - for a number of them (perhaps most), soccer is THE way out, the way to a better life. In the U.S., soccer is a hobby, a pastime, an avocation, which is perfectly fine, and a result of living in a country that does a great many things better than Croatia, but it ******s the development of our soccer players, in general, as compared to Croatia, or a lot of other countries, for that matter. Those kids ARE hungrier. They are dogs, and that is a compliment to their fight to make it on the soccer pitch

Croatian players make more than US players - Yes they do, because they are FAR superior players, otherwise they wouldn't be playing in the Bundesliga, La Liga, EPL, Seria A or Ligue Un. They earn way more than American players because they are way better. This comment is mostly from you not understanding that my point is focused on the youth programs in each country. My bad

A dog for your precious croatia refused to play and got sent home pretty much handicapping your dog's - And yet sending back one entitled apple didn't keep them from advancing all the way to the WC final. And more to my point, the Croatian player was sent back because he thought he should be on the pitch and the coach thought otherwise. Its refreshing to see a program that is willing to boot the prima donnas who won't play for the shield, or take a seat when told to by their boss. That one player who did show a sense of entitlement was sent off. Your point isn't a counter argument to my assertion that American kids feel entitled

That is the definition of entitlement

American players play balls to the wall and that is our strongest trait - I would say the team the U.S. ran out through CONCACAF qualifiers was an exception to this notion (most, not all-see Pulisic). I mostly agree with your assertion, that American players play balls to the wall, but my original post was directed toward the youth players, which are softer than their foreign counterparts. I would absolutely agree with you that the U.S. has developed a reputation of playing hard, but that also has been a product of having to out hustle their opponents because of the lack of technical ability, historically speaking. As our players have developed more on the technical side, I think the hard-nosed attitude has waned some, and there are others in the U.S. soccer community who have noted the same, that the latest USMNT lacked that grit and fight

Yes we live in a country where basketball as bad as it is rules - Sadly, you are correct. Add football and you greatly reduce the talent pool available for soccer development

But to call our soccer players entitled is bs - I was speaking to our youth soccer players, which I will continue to contend are much more entitled than their foreign counterparts

They are shunned in Europe and have been for 40 years - Ever ask the question WHY? Why would American players be shunned in Europe? Is it simply because they are American, or is there a solid reason for it, such as a lack of quality, lack of technical ability, or maybe a soft mental state? I'm prodding on this one because you put forth this notion. Why have Americans been shunned in Europe for the last 40 years?

This made my soccer pants go crazy.

The USMNT will never be a serious contender in world football until we find an effective way to scout and develop the Latino player.

Start there, and a lot of the blanks will start to fill themselves in.

WTF? What part of the Latino population is not being scouted and developed? Here's the most recent U18 MNT roster and it seems like the Latino population is as well-represented as one would expect.

U.S. U-18 MNT Roster by position:
GOALKEEPERS (3): *Owen Finnerty (Crew Sc Academy Wolves; Walled Lake, Mich.), *John Pulskamp (LA Galaxy; Bakersfield, Calif.), Alex Rando (New York City FC; New York, N.Y.)

DEFENDERS (9): Julian Araujo (Barca Academy; Lompoc, Calif.), *Edward Berumen (Sacramento Republic FC; Salida, Calif.), *Kendall Edwards (Atlanta United FC; Atlanta, Ga.), Justin Haak (New York City FC; Brooklyn, N.Y.), *Julian Hinojosa (FC Dallas; Garland, Texas), *Erwin Martinez (Real Salt Lake; Gilbert, Ariz.), David Mendoza (Chicago Fire; Gage Park, Ill.), *Andre Reynolds (Chicago Fire; Chicago, Ill.), Leonardo Sepulveda (LA Galaxy; Corona, Calif.)

MIDFIELDERS (9): Luis Arriaga (Real Salt Lake; Santa Rosa, Calif.), *Michael Carmona (Atletico Madrid; Madrid, Spain), *Jeffery Copper (Chargers SC; Tampa, Fla.), Cameron Duke (Sporting Kansas City; Overland Park, Kan.), Hunter George (Sacramento Republic FC; Lincoln, Calif.), Azriel Gonzalez (Seattle Sounders FC; Las Vegas, Nev.), Aidan Morris (Crew SC Academy; Ft. Lauderdale, Fla.), Thomas Roberts (FC Dallas; Little Rock, Ark.), *Tanner Tessmann (FC Dallas; Birmingham, Ala.)

FORWARDS (6): Quincy Butler (Sacramento Republic FC; Sacramento, Calif.), *Salvatore Esposito (S.S.C. Napoli; Manhattan, N.Y.), *Charlie Kelman (Southend United; Wickford, England), *Gibran Rayo (FC Dallas; Dallas, Texas), Gabriel Segal (Bethesda SC; Bethesda, Md.), *Julian Vazquez (Real Salt Lake; Sandy, Utah)

France
Croatia
Belgium
England
Sweden
Russia
Brazil
Uruguay

Last 4 wc winners
France
Germany
Spain
Italy

Seems we need some Europeans. Or maybe being good at soccer doesnt depend on where you live, grow up or your nationality. Maybe it depends on talent, opportunity, coaching and some luck.

Yeah. That's not why.

You can go pro at 16 in the MLS and then go to a Europe at 18. We need more kids to stop playing football and start playing soccer.

Did you read any of the interviews that Jonathan Gonzalez or his family gave after he committed his future to Mexico?

My point is that we aren't effectively tapping into our largest and deepest talent pool - that just happens to be Latino in our country.

Not to turn this into some sort of racist sounding comment on superior genetics, but the latino player is not the athlete we need to develop more to be great. Europe is winning World Cups partly because they have strong development, but they are also putting superior athletes on the field relative to central and south america.

DannyDuberstein said:

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Not to go all superior genetics, but the latino player is not the athlete we need to develop more to be great. Europe is winning World Cups partly because they have strong development, but they are also putting superior athletes on the field relative to central and south america.

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If Johnny Manziel has started playing soccer instead of football, he would be the greatest ever.

His athleticism is perfect for the beautiful game.