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But rarely do the small guys make the top 4. Just staying out of relegation is a win.

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2020-21: Leicester #3, West Ham and Everton with a chance at top 6

2019-20: Leicester 5th, Wolves 7th

2018-19: Wolves 7th, Everton 8th

2017-18: Burnley 7th, Everton 8th

And Leicester won the whole thing in 2015.

They may not usually be top 4 but there's almost always a few smaller clubs in the mix and that's what makes it interesting, and we're also seeing more investment from a lot of those clubs the past few seasons. This league idea would completely kill that value, potentially kill off a lot of smaller clubs, reduce interest in the leagues because the top teams would be playing more reserve and second string players, and have lots of other negative effects on the game.

This is throwing decades of history out the window for a cash grab by clubs already worth billions.

Verne Lundquist said:

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We bought ourselves a great coach with all the money we have got since the move happened. Hopefully we can get ourselves an SEC championship then National Championship.

The same can happen with Tottenham and Arsenal

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Jose Mourinho is one of the highest paid managers in the world.

Teams like Tottenham and Arsenal aren't having issues because they're hurting for cash.

I would imagine that the 3 clubs they're waiting on are Bayern, Leipzig, and PSG

Presumably they'd be a candidate for one of the other 5 slots, right?

They were rumored to be in the next 3 added along with Bayern and Leipzig. So Porto and Bayern I believe have said no.

Decent amount of players (from uninvolved clubs) speaking out.

At the end of the day, the "problem" is how good the Champions League is and how much money there is to be made off of it. Whether it's now or later, the future of the sport is a pan-European league as the primary competition for these clubs. They have left domestic rivals behind.

Right now these clubs are mostly like if the Texas Rangers and Houston Astros had to pretend that their biggest games were some league games against the Frisch RoughRiders and Midland RockHounds while getting only a handful of games a year against teams like the Dodgers and Yankees

Adios to the Euro's for a lot of these players

Aston94 said:

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Verne Lundquist said:

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JCRiley09 said:

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So are we going to talk ourselves into being fans of this thing?

I went from thinking that UEFA could threaten to kick these teams out of all leagues, World Cup, and Olympics... but now I know money lies with the talent, and FIFA and UEFA can't afford to lose all the TV eyes without these teams.

This money is going to suck the talent right out of every other non super team.

BUT the soccer might be really good.

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I was always a fan.

When I read this I immediately thought of A&M football moving to the SEC.

We bought ourselves a great coach with all the money we have got since the move happened. Hopefully we can get ourselves an SEC championship then National Championship.

The same can happen with Tottenham and Arsenal

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A&M went from one formed conference to another formed conference. This is nothing like that. This would be like Texas, Ohio St. Notre Dame, Bama, USC and a few other "legacy powers" forming their own National Championship that played along side the other national championship. It would devalue the first one, while creating a power structure so that only those legacy powers would have the opportunity to win the old national championship (because they would have more money and more exposure---more recruits).

Too much soccer devalues all soccer. The schedule is already so full, this would add more games, and would completely diminish Champions League. We don't need another league or cup, we need to improve the structure in place.

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I think the analogy is a valid one because all of the conference realignments that have happened over the decades (I'll go back to the dissolution of the SWC) have happened because rich teams were willing to discard tradition for the sake of more money... and at the expense of the poorer schools.

And yes - lots of folks are dreaming/wishing that the Power 5 conferences would slough off some of their dead-weight and break away from the rest of the NCAA, so while it hasn't happened (yet) the dynamics at play (Money/Entertainment vs. Tradition) are nearly identical.

agdoc2001 said:

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Or they could have just enforced Financial Fair Play

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My post was already a wall of text, but I was going to raise this issue as another example that the ship has already sailed.

It's clear to me that it's impossible to enforce financial fair play over an entire continent. Even without it, this will at least put the top level of competition on par with one another (ie it will be all the rich clubs, and they will have the most money). It would also likely be much easier for these clubs to enforce spending limits on themselves (the way American sports leagues do) without worrying about who is spending money to win "minor leagues"

Man City should NOT even be in the competition of the Champions League this year.

Well at least so far all the rumored clubs that were supposedly gonna join the ESL behind the initial 12 have come out and said they won't be joining. I really don't think the founders expected there to be this united of a backlash against the idea.

Dre_00 said:

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I still don't think it happens but if it does happen, I absolutely will stop supporting Manchester United. I'll probably turn into a neutral with a larger interest in Salford City just for the feels.

I also think if it does happen, it's doomed to fail. At least for a portion of this group. If your entire brand is built on excellence and success what happens when you...suck for extended periods of time AND you alienate all of your generational, local fans? United haven't won the league in nearly a decade. Arsenal in nearly two decades. Spurs in...forever. Congratulations on finishing 16th in the Super League from now till the end of time. The Super League will naturally develop its tiers...just like the domestic leagues. Heck, it already has its tiers and it's not even officially a thing yet. And I'm going to point and laugh my ass off at the Uniteds, Arsenals, and Spurs of the league that become the perennial also-rans.

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Yea, I don't think I could just start supporting another English club, but my gut tells me any true fan of the game would have to stop supporting their club if they join the super league.
I've already felt somewhat disconnected from Manchester United the last 4-5 years as is, but some of that is due to my work schedule changing up.
I also feel like they used to air (or reair) more games in the afternoon on the weekends, and now they seem to only air them live.

deadbq03 said:

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That's why I'm in favor of this move IF (and only if) they could get their act together and make a proper avenue for teams to get promoted/relegated. Make a legitimate avenue for teams like Leicester to get a seat at the big-boy table... But it doesn't look like that's going to be the case.

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From what I have read the league is gonna start with 15 invited teams and 5 slots for promotion/relegation (20 total teams). I've heard mixed info on the future but have seen suggestions that the "founding teams" will only be protected from relegation for 5 years.

wangus12 said:

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Adios to the Euro's for a lot of these players

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Not a fan of the super league by any means but it would immediately make the PL more competitive. The disparity between clubs would be dramatically less and teams that come up from the championship would have a fighting chance. I also think that viewership of the PL would increase by the formation of the Super League. England is full of football purists and they are adamantly against the Super League

Tweet to provide perspective:

Lol

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"This evolved format will still keep alive the dream of any team in Europe to participate in the UEFA Champions League thanks to results obtained on the pitch and it will enable long-term viability, prosperity, and growth for everyone in European football, not just a tiny, self-selected cartel

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The French league, maybe, but you are showing complete ignorance of Euro football/soccer to say the German league is irrelevant. That is beyond ridiculous. But if you want to go there, the way the sport has evolved and disregarding history, and just looking at today based on $$, viewership, and competitiveness EVERY league but the EPL (still can't stop calling it that) is irrelevant as a league as they are so top heavy.

Germany - Bayern, Dortmund, RB Leipzig (now/recent).
Spain - Barca & Real Madrid
Italy- Juve & Milan x 2
France - PSG and nobody else cares....

The EPL is considered the strongest LEAGUE as the mid-table teams and even those further down are stronger than other leagues teams # 10-20. Just this weekend future SPL participant Arsenal were lucky to get a draw vs. lowly Fulham at home.

I am 100000% against this idea. Yes you always have certain teams that are ALWAYS in the UEFA Champions League last 16 (Bayern, Real, Barca) but there are many, many more teams that are not. This season Man U didn't even make it out of the group stage of the UCL, last year they were in the Europa League (or whatever they call it now), Man City is a relative newcomer to UCL, Arsenal did not qualify for the UCL this season and based on current table and projected finish would not qualify for either the UCL or Europa league next season, right now Liverpool would not qualify for either the UCL or Europa league next season. Right now West Ham, a traditional mid-table club, is in 4th and scrapping with their lives to retain the 4th and final UCL qualifying spot. Look at Chelsea prior to Abramovich, they were closer to being Fulhman than Man U or Liverpool.

Both sides have leverage, to think the domestic leagues and FIFA do not have substantial leverage is pure folly. I absolutely do think the idea of a Euro Super League they could have their own separate league and survive and even thrive, but there will be NO relegation to the domestic leagues or promotion from the domestic leagues and all domestic leagues are going to cut them out of the leagues, and it remains to be seen how it will play out for the players when they all realize they cannot play in the Euro, Copa Libertadores, Gold Cup, African Cup, and most importantly the World Cup. As well they will be out of their domestic Cup competitions which are very prestigious.

The assumption of playing mid-week games in addition to their regular domestic leagues was a huge mistake on the part of the Super League. They should have assumed from day 1 it would be an entirely independent league and the teams will no longer have a domestic league presence.

There is obviously big $$ involved, but I'd like to see an analysis for Real Madrid, Man U., etc. of the economics of their revenues based on domestic league and cup competitions vs. UCL. The Super League founders basically went into this assuming the domestic league and domestic Cup revenues would continue to flow, that is now off the table completely and changes the dynamics substantially.

FIFA is a corrupt organization, so anything to ruffle their feathers is good, though I do think FIFA does a good job organizing, monitoring and regulating the sport and providing a system for the various competitions and Cups at the confederation and global level. The Super League idea is all about extracting more $$$ from the UEFA Champions League, getting a much larger share of the revenue.

Will be interesting to see how it all plays out. I don't think the Super League teams have as much leverage as they think and my guess is the vast majority of fans and former players, even former players of Super League clubs, will be adamantly opposed to it.

Also apparently if the clubs accept the 300m bonus, that money must be repaid if they leave the super league at any point

Can't wait for the SL!

I like the idea. Current leagues are too diluted. Even the UCL

deadbq03 said:

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Aston94 said:

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Verne Lundquist said:

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JCRiley09 said:

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So are we going to talk ourselves into being fans of this thing?

I went from thinking that UEFA could threaten to kick these teams out of all leagues, World Cup, and Olympics... but now I know money lies with the talent, and FIFA and UEFA can't afford to lose all the TV eyes without these teams.

This money is going to suck the talent right out of every other non super team.

BUT the soccer might be really good.

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I was always a fan.

When I read this I immediately thought of A&M football moving to the SEC.

We bought ourselves a great coach with all the money we have got since the move happened. Hopefully we can get ourselves an SEC championship then National Championship.

The same can happen with Tottenham and Arsenal

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A&M went from one formed conference to another formed conference. This is nothing like that. This would be like Texas, Ohio St. Notre Dame, Bama, USC and a few other "legacy powers" forming their own National Championship that played along side the other national championship. It would devalue the first one, while creating a power structure so that only those legacy powers would have the opportunity to win the old national championship (because they would have more money and more exposure---more recruits).

Too much soccer devalues all soccer. The schedule is already so full, this would add more games, and would completely diminish Champions League. We don't need another league or cup, we need to improve the structure in place.

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I think the analogy is a valid one because all of the conference realignments that have happened over the decades (I'll go back to the dissolution of the SWC) have happened because rich teams were willing to discard tradition for the sake of more money... and at the expense of the poorer schools.

And yes - lots of folks are dreaming/wishing that the Power 5 conferences would slough off some of their dead-weight and break away from the rest of the NCAA, so while it hasn't happened (yet) the dynamics at play (Money/Entertainment vs. Tradition) are nearly identical.

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A&M going to the SEC is like some good French team leaving the French Ligue 1 and going to the Premier League. Its a selfish move for the club to go to the better, wealthier conference but its not institutionalizing advantages and special treatment.

What these teams is doing is more akin to what A&M fans routinely say destroyed the Big 12...Texas going out and creating the Longhorn Network.

Remember, these clubs want to continue to play in their domestic leagues and also want special treatment within their own, new league.

I keep going back and forth on this. I want to support my club, but I don't think this is a great idea. I wonder how much these clubs lost to Covid and empty stadiums? Enough to want to jump start a new revenue stream?

On a related note, I've never fully picked a Bundesliga team to support. I always watched games that have American players I liked, and I've had teams I liked playing as in various FIFA games in the past (probably 10+ years ago at this point). At one point I liked Bayer Leverkusen, but that could just be because the name seemed cool.

It would feel wrong to just pick Bayern Munich, even though they have always played really attractive football.
I don't want to just pick Dortmund because Reyna currently plays there, though I guess thats how a lot of us picked teams back when we first started getting into the sport when we were young.

For example, I chose Manchester United because they were one of the few teams you could watch on TV. They played well and were fun to watch. I don't think I even knew that they were winning championships when I decided to fully support them.
The first 5-10 years I followed European soccer, I don't think I even truly picked a team to support like I do with Mavs,Cowboys,Rangers, Stars. Which makes sense because I am NOT from anywhere in England.
I also really liked watching Arsenal play, Bergkamp at first and then later also Overmars were favorites of mine ( the Dutch were my national team to root for when the US werent doing well).