Guitarsoup said:

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Ag Natural said:

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I thought you had to be retired for 5 years before being eligible? Gasol played the 18-19 season. Maybe it's just all the other sports that require that.

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And pop coached like two or three years ago

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As a player obviously. Jerry Jones is in the HOF and he never played.

Gregg Popovich the night before the draft lottery: https://t.co/s1FSVPbbmW

— Tom Petrini (@RealTomPetrini) March 29, 2023

Objective 1 in "Stenchy for the Frenchy"is complete.

The Spurs have secured a bottom 3 record (14% chance at 1st pick) with a loss to the Jazz by 11

The Spurs are now….

…19-57 overall
…13-26 at home
…7-39 vs the West

— Paul Garcia (@PaulGarciaNBA) March 30, 2023

Title #6
When is the reever parades?

Guitar is coming around on liking Wemby now

I'm all in, and if he can in fact add healthy weight to his frame, it could be fun. Next year is likely a tank year as well, so if you're the Spurs if you have Sochan + Wemby, that's a great start and you can look for some backcourt pieces that fit with those 2.

If someone is interested in Keldon or Vassell, this is the time to trade one of them if there is another mid first round talent like Keyonte George you like. Or if a 5-9 pick is somehow obtainable and you like the player, maybe you unload one of the future Raptors or Bills picks.

It's finally getting close to starting to watch some of these dominos fall into place, so hopefully the lottery balls bounce our way.

I still think his tiny little body breaks in half in the NBA.

I think we are in good shape with any of the top picks, especially if we get someone that proves out instantly and we can use our assets to acquire some talent.

Keldon is on a nice contract, but he is probably a 3rd option guy that too often doesn't give enough defensive effort. Rather keep Vassell than Keldon. Then Sochan and our new pick.

Johnson and Vassell aren't going anywhere.

Why do you think they aren't going anywhere?

Dejounte was our best young player and we traded him. If the value is there, you trade one of them. I think Keldon and Vassell are ok pieces, they are putting up 20ish a game, but with those 2 as your best players, the Spurs are the worst team in the league. That tells me that there's lots of room to improve that position.

AggieEP said:

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Why do you think they aren't going anywhere?

Dejounte was our best young player and we traded him. If the value is there, you trade one of them. I think Keldon and Vassell are ok pieces, they are putting up 20ish a game, but with those 2 as your best players, the Spurs are the worst team in the league. That tells me that there's lots of room to improve that position.

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DJ was traded because they knew they weren't going to be able re-sign him. Keldon just signed a 4 year deal. Vassell will get a new deal this offseason. Yeah so they aren't going anywhere unless some superstar becomes available via trade. Maybe a Jalen Brown if he's truly unhappy in Boston. It's not impossible but not likely.

Murray was traded with multiple years left on his contract.

He was traded because we got a lot of assets and we're at a point where we are borderline playoff with him, which makes it ridiculously hard to rebuild

Keldon is gone in a heartbeat if we get the right return

Guitarsoup said:

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Murray was traded with multiple years left on his contract.

He was traded because we got a lot of assets and we're at a point where we are borderline playoff with him, which makes it ridiculously hard to rebuild

Keldon is gone in a heartbeat if we get the right return

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There's no one on our current roster that's not available for the right price.

Which is not much

Wemby put-back off his own stepback. WOW. 🤯😱

(via @NBA)pic.twitter.com/Ufj65mjCY8

— Bleacher Report (@BleacherReport) April 2, 2023

Guitarsoup said:

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Murray was traded with multiple years left on his contract.

He was traded because we got a lot of assets and we're at a point where we are borderline playoff with him, which makes it ridiculously hard to rebuild

Keldon is gone in a heartbeat if we get the right return

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Both things are true. He wasn't going to sign an extension because the CBA limits the amount you can raise his salary. He is going to be a FA after this season. Atlanta might lose him for the same reason. Although the new CBA is going to increase the extension amounts so maybe they'll luck out if that kicks in soon enough.

They gave up a lot to get him. That was a great trade for the Spurs. DJ is a good player but he's got his shortcomings. You could say the same for Keldon but from the outside looking in I see Keldon as a much more impactful culture guy.

Ag Natural said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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Murray was traded with multiple years left on his contract.

He was traded because we got a lot of assets and we're at a point where we are borderline playoff with him, which makes it ridiculously hard to rebuild

Keldon is gone in a heartbeat if we get the right return

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Both things are true. He wasn't going to sign an extension because the CBA limits the amount you can raise his salary. He is going to be a FA after this season. Atlanta might lose him for the same reason. Although the new CBA is going to increase the extension amounts so maybe they'll luck out if that kicks in soon enough.

They gave up a lot to get him. That was a great trade for the Spurs. DJ is a good player but he's got his shortcomings. You could say the same for Keldon but from the outside looking in I see Keldon as a much more impactful culture guy.

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We got three firsts (two unprotected) and a first round swap (also unprotected) for DJ.

I agree Keldon is a better culture guy, but at his best, he's still just a 22/5/3 wing with 55% TS. There are maybe two dozen wing that can put up those numbers. Keldon is a great cultural guy, but he's a young wing on a team-favorable contract. He isn't a unicorn and if the Spurs need a young guy to include in a trade, they are pulling the trigger on him before Vassell and Sochan.

If the goal is to win big again, which I hope it is, the Spurs have to be bold and creative with how to find the right 8-9 guys to fill the roles needed to play winning basketball. Right now the team has like 2-3 guys that fit that description, Sochan + Vassell and maybe Keldon when it's a good day. The problem is none of those 3 seem like stars, and you need stars to win.

That means they need to find 5-6 guys to fill the roles they value and 2 of those guys needs to be a star level talent. Hopefully, this pick coming this year nets a star, but they still need to find one more. With the assets we have, if you think you found a star, you make the move and get him.

Right now, we're in it for the #1 pick, so let's get Wemby and be ready to deal if the right player is available to pair with him.

AggieEP said:

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If the goal is to win big again, which I hope it is, the Spurs have to be bold and creative with how to find the right 8-9 guys to fill the roles needed to play winning basketball. Right now the team has like 2-3 guys that fit that description, Sochan + Vassell and maybe Keldon when it's a good day. The problem is none of those 3 seem like stars, and you need stars to win.

That means they need to find 5-6 guys to fill the roles they value and 2 of those guys needs to be a star level talent. Hopefully, this pick coming this year nets a star, but they still need to find one more. With the assets we have, if you think you found a star, you make the move and get him.

Right now, we're in it for the #1 pick, so let's get Wemby and be ready to deal if the right player is available to pair with him.

---

Spurs may get to draft a legit #1 guy this year. Wemby or Scoot. We are about 30% to pick 6th or 7th. 70% top 5. We are 1 back in the win column from the Rockets at #2, which would be 80% drafting 1-5. No matter where we end up, we are about 50% 1-4. I don't like Miller, but I think his talent would be used well. I'd rather have Amen, Scoot or Wemby.

Detroit's young players:

PG Killian Hayes (10/6, can't shoot, 21yo)
Combo Cade Cunningham (20/6/6, 21yo)
Combo RJ Hampton (22yo, probably backup level)
SG Jaden Ivey (16/5/4 21yo)
PF Marv Bagley (24yo, 12/6, backup level)
C Isaiah Stewart (almost 22, 11/8)
C Wiseman (22yo, 13/9)

With Ivey/Cade, I think even with the #2 pick, they go Miller. They need that range and he would slot in perfectly. Scoot doesn't seem to move the needle there, and not sure they need more 6'5 guards.

Houston definitely takes Scoot with the 2nd pick. Last year they took Jabari with the #3 pick and Miller is the same position. KPJ is just a headache. Green seems settled in to be their low-efficiency volume shooter. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think you can build an impressive team with Jabari, KPJ, Green, Seguin, and Lil KMart.

Hornets:
With Rozier/Ball/DS, I think the Hornets skip Scoot for Miller, too. I think they would take Ausar over Amen, since they need more of a wing.

If we pick top 5, we end up with Wemby, Scoot, Miller, or Amen. Drop below that, and maybe Anthony Black as a defensive PG. With Sochan, I don't think Walker or Whitmore are guys we are going to go after. But maybe a big rotation of Sochan, Collins, Bassey, Walker is good enough? I think you need a real post defender like Naz Reid with the big men in the West.

Guitarsoup said:

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AggieEP said:

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If the goal is to win big again, which I hope it is, the Spurs have to be bold and creative with how to find the right 8-9 guys to fill the roles needed to play winning basketball. Right now the team has like 2-3 guys that fit that description, Sochan + Vassell and maybe Keldon when it's a good day. The problem is none of those 3 seem like stars, and you need stars to win.

That means they need to find 5-6 guys to fill the roles they value and 2 of those guys needs to be a star level talent. Hopefully, this pick coming this year nets a star, but they still need to find one more. With the assets we have, if you think you found a star, you make the move and get him.

Right now, we're in it for the #1 pick, so let's get Wemby and be ready to deal if the right player is available to pair with him.

---

Spurs may get to draft a legit #1 guy this year. Wemby or Scoot. We are about 30% to pick 6th or 7th. 70% top 5. We are 1 back in the win column from the Rockets at #2, which would be 80% drafting 1-5. No matter where we end up, we are about 50% 1-4. I don't like Miller, but I think his talent would be used well. I'd rather have Amen, Scoot or Wemby.

Detroit's young players:

PG Killian Hayes (10/6, can't shoot, 21yo)
Combo Cade Cunningham (20/6/6, 21yo)
Combo RJ Hampton (22yo, probably backup level)
SG Jaden Ivey (16/5/4 21yo)
PF Marv Bagley (24yo, 12/6, backup level)
C Isaiah Stewart (almost 22, 11/8)
C Wiseman (22yo, 13/9)

With Ivey/Cade, I think even with the #2 pick, they go Miller. They need that range and he would slot in perfectly. Scoot doesn't seem to move the needle there, and not sure they need more 6'5 guards.

Houston definitely takes Scoot with the 2nd pick. Last year they took Jabari with the #3 pick and Miller is the same position. KPJ is just a headache. Green seems settled in to be their low-efficiency volume shooter. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think you can build an impressive team with Jabari, KPJ, Green, Seguin, and Lil KMart.

Hornets:
With Rozier/Ball/DS, I think the Hornets skip Scoot for Miller, too. I think they would take Ausar over Amen, since they need more of a wing.

If we pick top 5, we end up with Wemby, Scoot, Miller, or Amen. Drop below that, and maybe Anthony Black as a defensive PG. With Sochan, I don't think Walker or Whitmore are guys we are going to go after. But maybe a big rotation of Sochan, Collins, Bassey, Walker is good enough? I think you need a real post defender like Naz Reid with the big men in the West.

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I really hope we end up with a top 2 pick so that it takes some of the guess work out of it. From a basketball talent perspective, I really like Brandon Miller. However, there's quite a bit of baggage that has been hashed and rehashed a thousand times already. Throw in the fact that our most recent lottery pick from Bama had issues, it's more than enough to give PATFO hesitancy about picking him. Amen is a much more intriguing prospect than Ausar, but both Thompson boys need a lot of work on their shots just to be passable at the NBA level.

I think if you add a legit star to this team the turnaround will be very quick. There's a lot of guys on this team who have shown some real potential, especially offensively. Defense and late game execution has been the issue. Its not like they just stunk it up all season with g league players.

I really like Vassell, Collins, Branham and Sochan. Keldon doesn't have as much upside but he's a winning player too. KDB is also really interesting.

Ag Natural said:

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I think if you add a legit star to this team the turnaround will be very quick. There's a lot of guys on this team who have shown some real potential, especially offensively. Defense and late game execution has been the issue. Its not like they just stunk it up all season with g league players.

I really like Vassell, Collins, Branham and Sochan. Keldon doesn't have as much upside but he's a winning player too. KDB is also really interesting.

---

I like Keldon as a 3rd wing. Would love him as our bench scoring option.

We need a legit primary playmaker and to upgrade center/wing. I think Collins is about as great as we could possibly do for a 20-25mpg guy, but he is never going to be more than that. He's a balls to the wall guy that is injury and foul prone. But for those 20mpg, he is great.

Vassell didn't score as much as Keldon, but he is a better shooter, passer, and defender. But ideally, I think Vassell is our 3rd option on a playoff team.

What sucks is there aren't a lot of guys available this summer that are those first/second options.

Kyrie (but he has lived through 31+ revolutions of the sun around the earth)
VanVleet (29yo and a 20/7 player)
Vucevic (32yo, 17/11 guy that plays no defense)
Jeremi Grant (29yo stretch 4 that doesn't rebound)
Kuz (28yo - 20/7 stretch 4 that only hits 33% from downtown)
Christian Wood (Dallas plays better with him off the court than on because his defense is so awful)
Draymond Green - 33yo and easily the greatest 8p/8r/8a player in the history of the NBA.
Khris Middleston - almost 32 with lots of injuries. Would have loved him to start over Keldon when he was younger, but glad he got that ring. Doesn't fit our plans now.
Josh Hart -28yo great rebounding for a SG/SF, good passing, but wish he was better than a 35% shooter from 3.
Jordan Clarkson - bring the 31yo combo guard that can't shoot home, pop.



Guys 27 and younger:
Post/Stretch - Kristaps (27 & injury prone)
Point/Combo: D'Angelo Russell - 27yo - 17/6 guy with no defense. If we end up with Miller, I could be a buyer on a 3y50mm contract. But I don't think he is a PG that leads a team to a title.
Wing: Dillon Brooks - elite wing defender, awful volume shooter
Stretch: Cameron Johnson - 27yo, I think he and Sochan could coexist as SF/PF and have Keldon as 6M.
Wing: Gary Trent. 24yo Scores, but doesnt do anything else.
Post: Naz Reid - 24yo, probably my #1 choice on the FA market. He would compliment Collins/Bassey perfectly.
Wing/PF: Grant Williams 24. Defensive guy, but turned down a 15mm contract. Not sure he is worth that. 8p5r in 26mpg, and hit over 40% from three. He's an RFA and Boston is deep in tax if they keep him and horford.
SG: Coby White (smaller role with Chicago each year)

Who's gonna be the difference maker here? Maybe Kristaps if you get Scoot, but I don't really feel great about putting all my eggs in that broken down Latvian basket.

Guitarsoup said:

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Ag Natural said:

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I think if you add a legit star to this team the turnaround will be very quick. There's a lot of guys on this team who have shown some real potential, especially offensively. Defense and late game execution has been the issue. Its not like they just stunk it up all season with g league players.

I really like Vassell, Collins, Branham and Sochan. Keldon doesn't have as much upside but he's a winning player too. KDB is also really interesting.

---

I like Keldon as a 3rd wing. Would love him as our bench scoring option.

We need a legit primary playmaker and to upgrade center/wing. I think Collins is about as great as we could possibly do for a 20-25mpg guy, but he is never going to be more than that. He's a balls to the wall guy that is injury and foul prone. But for those 20mpg, he is great.

Vassell didn't score as much as Keldon, but he is a better shooter, passer, and defender. But ideally, I think Vassell is our 3rd option on a playoff team.

What sucks is there aren't a lot of guys available this summer that are those first/second options.

Kyrie (but he has lived through 31+ revolutions of the sun around the earth)
VanVleet (29yo and a 20/7 player)
Vucevic (32yo, 17/11 guy that plays no defense)
Jeremi Grant (29yo stretch 4 that doesn't rebound)
Kuz (28yo - 20/7 stretch 4 that only hits 33% from downtown)
Christian Wood (Dallas plays better with him off the court than on because his defense is so awful)
Draymond Green - 33yo and easily the greatest 8p/8r/8a player in the history of the NBA.
Khris Middleston - almost 32 with lots of injuries. Would have loved him to start over Keldon when he was younger, but glad he got that ring. Doesn't fit our plans now.
Josh Hart -28yo great rebounding for a SG/SF, good passing, but wish he was better than a 35% shooter from 3.
Jordan Clarkson - bring the 31yo combo guard that can't shoot home, pop.



Guys 27 and younger:
Post/Stretch - Kristaps (27 & injury prone)
Point/Combo: D'Angelo Russell - 27yo - 17/6 guy with no defense. If we end up with Miller, I could be a buyer on a 3y50mm contract. But I don't think he is a PG that leads a team to a title.
Wing: Dillon Brooks - elite wing defender, awful volume shooter
Stretch: Cameron Johnson - 27yo, I think he and Sochan could coexist as SF/PF and have Keldon as 6M.
Wing: Gary Trent. 24yo Scores, but doesnt do anything else.
Post: Naz Reid - 24yo, probably my #1 choice on the FA market. He would compliment Collins/Bassey perfectly.
Wing/PF: Grant Williams 24. Defensive guy, but turned down a 15mm contract. Not sure he is worth that. 8p5r in 26mpg, and hit over 40% from three. He's an RFA and Boston is deep in tax if they keep him and horford.
SG: Coby White (smaller role with Chicago each year)

Who's gonna be the difference maker here? Maybe Kristaps if you get Scoot, but I don't really feel great about putting all my eggs in that broken down Latvian basket.

---

So guys can't get better? Vassell and Keldon were very young when they got here. Sochan and Branham are 19. Collins is actually still a very young guy. I've seen a lot of promise in all of them. I watch every game like a maniac. They've lost so many games because Pop is literally tanking. We rarely play a full roster. Add one real difference maker and things change quickly.

Ag Natural said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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Ag Natural said:

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I think if you add a legit star to this team the turnaround will be very quick. There's a lot of guys on this team who have shown some real potential, especially offensively. Defense and late game execution has been the issue. Its not like they just stunk it up all season with g league players.

I really like Vassell, Collins, Branham and Sochan. Keldon doesn't have as much upside but he's a winning player too. KDB is also really interesting.

---

I like Keldon as a 3rd wing. Would love him as our bench scoring option.

We need a legit primary playmaker and to upgrade center/wing. I think Collins is about as great as we could possibly do for a 20-25mpg guy, but he is never going to be more than that. He's a balls to the wall guy that is injury and foul prone. But for those 20mpg, he is great.

Vassell didn't score as much as Keldon, but he is a better shooter, passer, and defender. But ideally, I think Vassell is our 3rd option on a playoff team.

What sucks is there aren't a lot of guys available this summer that are those first/second options.

Kyrie (but he has lived through 31+ revolutions of the sun around the earth)
VanVleet (29yo and a 20/7 player)
Vucevic (32yo, 17/11 guy that plays no defense)
Jeremi Grant (29yo stretch 4 that doesn't rebound)
Kuz (28yo - 20/7 stretch 4 that only hits 33% from downtown)
Christian Wood (Dallas plays better with him off the court than on because his defense is so awful)
Draymond Green - 33yo and easily the greatest 8p/8r/8a player in the history of the NBA.
Khris Middleston - almost 32 with lots of injuries. Would have loved him to start over Keldon when he was younger, but glad he got that ring. Doesn't fit our plans now.
Josh Hart -28yo great rebounding for a SG/SF, good passing, but wish he was better than a 35% shooter from 3.
Jordan Clarkson - bring the 31yo combo guard that can't shoot home, pop.



Guys 27 and younger:
Post/Stretch - Kristaps (27 & injury prone)
Point/Combo: D'Angelo Russell - 27yo - 17/6 guy with no defense. If we end up with Miller, I could be a buyer on a 3y50mm contract. But I don't think he is a PG that leads a team to a title.
Wing: Dillon Brooks - elite wing defender, awful volume shooter
Stretch: Cameron Johnson - 27yo, I think he and Sochan could coexist as SF/PF and have Keldon as 6M.
Wing: Gary Trent. 24yo Scores, but doesnt do anything else.
Post: Naz Reid - 24yo, probably my #1 choice on the FA market. He would compliment Collins/Bassey perfectly.
Wing/PF: Grant Williams 24. Defensive guy, but turned down a 15mm contract. Not sure he is worth that. 8p5r in 26mpg, and hit over 40% from three. He's an RFA and Boston is deep in tax if they keep him and horford.
SG: Coby White (smaller role with Chicago each year)

Who's gonna be the difference maker here? Maybe Kristaps if you get Scoot, but I don't really feel great about putting all my eggs in that broken down Latvian basket.

---

So guys can't get better? Vassell and Keldon were very young when they got here. Sochan and Branham are 19. Collins is actually still a very young guy. I've seen a lot of promise in all of them. I watch every game like a maniac. They've lost so many games because Pop is literally tanking. We rarely play a full roster. Add one real difference maker and things change quickly.

---

No one has said they can't get better. You're better than that.

I think having a legitimate point will help out a lot, just look at Keldon's shooting numbers last year with DJ and this year with Tre/Graham.

But ultimately, I don't think Keldon becomes a superstar. I like him a lot, and maybe with better players around him he improves a lot, but he also doesn't always give effort on defense that we expect. I do not think he has the tools to be an All-NBA player.

I don't think that Vassell becomes a 1st option scorer. Maybe he becomes a 2nd option, but I don't think he is dynamic as you would want a 2nd option scorer SG to be. But Vassell is absolutely a guy I would want in my core. He just does everything well. That said, we all wanted Halliburton to be drafted over Vassell and man, that would have completely changed this team.

As for Sochan, the sky is the limit. His commitment to improvement we have seen just in this season shows he could be truly elite on both ends of the court.

I think Collins can gain skills, but I think he is who we are seeing here. He comes in, plays hard, contributes a lot in limited minutes. I do not think he will ever be a 35mpg primary player.

I don't think Tre Jones will ever be more than a quality backup. Unless he somehow was on a team with multiple HOFers, I don't think he's a starter on a championship-contending team.

I would love to be wrong here, but I don't think Keldon or Vassell will ever be an All-NBA-level player. I think Sochan might.

Guitarsoup said:

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Ag Natural said:

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Guitarsoup said:

---

Ag Natural said:

---

I think if you add a legit star to this team the turnaround will be very quick. There's a lot of guys on this team who have shown some real potential, especially offensively. Defense and late game execution has been the issue. Its not like they just stunk it up all season with g league players.

I really like Vassell, Collins, Branham and Sochan. Keldon doesn't have as much upside but he's a winning player too. KDB is also really interesting.

---

I like Keldon as a 3rd wing. Would love him as our bench scoring option.

We need a legit primary playmaker and to upgrade center/wing. I think Collins is about as great as we could possibly do for a 20-25mpg guy, but he is never going to be more than that. He's a balls to the wall guy that is injury and foul prone. But for those 20mpg, he is great.

Vassell didn't score as much as Keldon, but he is a better shooter, passer, and defender. But ideally, I think Vassell is our 3rd option on a playoff team.

What sucks is there aren't a lot of guys available this summer that are those first/second options.

Kyrie (but he has lived through 31+ revolutions of the sun around the earth)
VanVleet (29yo and a 20/7 player)
Vucevic (32yo, 17/11 guy that plays no defense)
Jeremi Grant (29yo stretch 4 that doesn't rebound)
Kuz (28yo - 20/7 stretch 4 that only hits 33% from downtown)
Christian Wood (Dallas plays better with him off the court than on because his defense is so awful)
Draymond Green - 33yo and easily the greatest 8p/8r/8a player in the history of the NBA.
Khris Middleston - almost 32 with lots of injuries. Would have loved him to start over Keldon when he was younger, but glad he got that ring. Doesn't fit our plans now.
Josh Hart -28yo great rebounding for a SG/SF, good passing, but wish he was better than a 35% shooter from 3.
Jordan Clarkson - bring the 31yo combo guard that can't shoot home, pop.



Guys 27 and younger:
Post/Stretch - Kristaps (27 & injury prone)
Point/Combo: D'Angelo Russell - 27yo - 17/6 guy with no defense. If we end up with Miller, I could be a buyer on a 3y50mm contract. But I don't think he is a PG that leads a team to a title.
Wing: Dillon Brooks - elite wing defender, awful volume shooter
Stretch: Cameron Johnson - 27yo, I think he and Sochan could coexist as SF/PF and have Keldon as 6M.
Wing: Gary Trent. 24yo Scores, but doesnt do anything else.
Post: Naz Reid - 24yo, probably my #1 choice on the FA market. He would compliment Collins/Bassey perfectly.
Wing/PF: Grant Williams 24. Defensive guy, but turned down a 15mm contract. Not sure he is worth that. 8p5r in 26mpg, and hit over 40% from three. He's an RFA and Boston is deep in tax if they keep him and horford.
SG: Coby White (smaller role with Chicago each year)

Who's gonna be the difference maker here? Maybe Kristaps if you get Scoot, but I don't really feel great about putting all my eggs in that broken down Latvian basket.

---

So guys can't get better? Vassell and Keldon were very young when they got here. Sochan and Branham are 19. Collins is actually still a very young guy. I've seen a lot of promise in all of them. I watch every game like a maniac. They've lost so many games because Pop is literally tanking. We rarely play a full roster. Add one real difference maker and things change quickly.

---

No one has said they can't get better. You're better than that.

I think having a legitimate point will help out a lot, just look at Keldon's shooting numbers last year with DJ and this year with Tre/Graham.

But ultimately, I don't think Keldon becomes a superstar. I like him a lot, and maybe with better players around him he improves a lot, but he also doesn't always give effort on defense that we expect. I do not think he has the tools to be an All-NBA player.

I don't think that Vassell becomes a 1st option scorer. Maybe he becomes a 2nd option, but I don't think he is dynamic as you would want a 2nd option scorer SG to be. But Vassell is absolutely a guy I would want in my core. He just does everything well. That said, we all wanted Halliburton to be drafted over Vassell and man, that would have completely changed this team.

As for Sochan, the sky is the limit. His commitment to improvement we have seen just in this season shows he could be truly elite on both ends of the court.

I think Collins can gain skills, but I think he is who we are seeing here. He comes in, plays hard, contributes a lot in limited minutes. I do not think he will ever be a 35mpg primary player.

I don't think Tre Jones will ever be more than a quality backup. Unless he somehow was on a team with multiple HOFers, I don't think he's a starter on a championship-contending team.

I would love to be wrong here, but I don't think Keldon or Vassell will ever be an All-NBA-level player. I think Sochan might.

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I guess I evaluate these guys a lot differently. I tend to focus on whether or not they have an elite trait. If you put together a team of guys who can all do something great and also not suck in a major area, you can win a lot of games. Add or develop one true star and you can start contending.

Keldon won't ever be all NBA, agreed. But he is an elite finisher, the likes of which we haven't seen much of on the Spurs. He's been a very streaky shooter in both directions.

Vassell went through a stretch where he showed real promise as a shot creator/maker. Injuries plagued him. But at his size his shot can get off against almost anyone at an elite level.

Sochan. All around playmaker in every way. Future stud.

Collins. After Poeltl was traded Collins has played really well on both ends. He's way tougher and much more skilled than I thought. He can also be a threat from deep and that has a place on any contending team.

Tre Jones has probably been the guy who has surprised me the most. The team really struggles when he's not playing. A true PG. He does it all and it's hard to say how good he will eventually be. He's way more athletic than I thought and he's developed a real nice floater. A poor man's Mike Conley. I don't know if he's a for sure starter on a good team but he's in a rotation.

I actually liked what I saw from Bassey as well before he got injured. He's a big, tough dude who was developing.

For me it's not just having an elite skill that I'm looking for, it's having an elite skill that forces the other team into a dilemma that you can exploit. So a bit of nuance, I'm looking for specific elite skills. Namely perimeter shooting and playmaking bigs.

For example what we've seen from both the Bucks and Nuggets recently is using a playmaking big, if you can force a switch you have a huge advantage. That advantage forces the rest of the defense to shift in a way that opens up cuts and shooters. This is why in a perfect world I want Wemby, his elite skill is perimeter playmaking at 7 ft tall. You could run a play every time down the floor to create a mismatch that then makes the game easier for everyone.

The 15-present warriors have been great because of Steph's generationally elite shooting. That one skill effects everything the other team does on defense, again making the game easier for all of Steph's teammates.

This is why for me, a team of Vassells, and Keldons and Sochans just won't cut it. Put 2 more guys on the team at their level, and this is a 5-6 seed in the playoffs team, they'll win more than they lose but the ceiling is 2nd round in the playoffs.

As mentioned previously, Halliburton is border line one of those guys, and we could have had him but missed. I'll reiterate, other than Sochan, anyone should be available in a trade if you think you can find a guy with the skill set to make your whole team better. Heck, if the Spurs get Wemby, and Scoot is still there at 3 or 4, offer what you have to, and give up those picks to get them both. In the NBA you have to be bold to get the players to win.

AggieEP said:

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For me it's not just having an elite skill that I'm looking for, it's having an elite skill that forces the other team into a dilemma that you can exploit. So a bit of nuance, I'm looking for specific elite skills. Namely perimeter shooting and playmaking bigs.

For example what we've seen from both the Bucks and Nuggets recently is using a playmaking big, if you can force a switch you have a huge advantage. That advantage forces the rest of the defense to shift in a way that opens up cuts and shooters. This is why in a perfect world I want Wemby, his elite skill is perimeter playmaking at 7 ft tall. You could run a play every time down the floor to create a mismatch that then makes the game easier for everyone.

The 15-present warriors have been great because of Steph's generationally elite shooting. That one skill effects everything the other team does on defense, again making the game easier for all of Steph's teammates.

This is why for me, a team of Vassells, and Keldons and Sochans just won't cut it. Put 2 more guys on the team at their level, and this is a 5-6 seed in the playoffs team, they'll win more than they lose but the ceiling is 2nd round in the playoffs.

As mentioned previously, Halliburton is border line one of those guys, and we could have had him but missed. I'll reiterate, other than Sochan, anyone should be available in a trade if you think you can find a guy with the skill set to make your whole team better. Heck, if the Spurs get Wemby, and Scoot is still there at 3 or 4, offer what you have to, and give up those picks to get them both. In the NBA you have to be bold to get the players to win.

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Exactly right. The Beautiful Game Spurs and the 04 Pistons are basically the only championship teams without an elite superstar.

Warriors - Curry (plus All-NBA Klay, All-NBA and DPOY Draymond, and Superstar Durant for two)
Bucks - Giannis
Lakers - Caruso
Raptors - Kawhi (I think he was a transcendent superstar at that point, avg 31p/9r/4a/2s in the playoffs)
Cavs - LeBron
14 Spurs - Paker led the team in the playoffs with 17ppg, Kawhi averaged 14/6.7
Heat - LeBron/Wade
Mavs - Dirk
Lakers - Kobe
Celtics - 3 HOF players just past their peak (all were about 31yo)
Spurs - Duncan
Heat - Elite Wade (28/6/6/2 in playoffs), and just past his prime Shaq (19/9 in playoffs at 33yo)
04 Pistons - no real super star. DPOY/HOF Ben Wallace. 3x AS Rip Hamilton, 3x All-NBA Chauncey Billups, 4x All-Defense Tayshaun Prince, 4x All-Star Sheed, pre-prime Memo Okur (future All-Star)
Lakers - Shaq/Kobe/Phil
Bulls - Jordan
Rockets - Hakeem/Clyde
Pistons - Thomas plus HOF Dumars/Rodman, 3x AS Mark Aguirre, 4x AS and Rebounding Champ Laimbeer and future Spurs great Vinnie Johnson.
Lakers - Magic/Kareem
Celtics - Bird/McHale/Johnson/Parish/Walton/etc
76ers - Doc/Moses


That's every team in the modern NBA (3-pt line added)


If we want to win, we need a superstar and ideally more than one All-NBA player to go with them.

Top teams the past few years.

21 Bucks: Giannis Superstar, Khris and Jrue, multiple all-stars and elite defensive players. Lopez, 1x AS and All-Def
21 Suns: Booker/Paul Superstars, Bridges All-Defense, Ayton solid post (15/11)
22 Celtics (runner up): Tatum Superstar, Brown all-star, DPOY Smart, 8 players in double digits in points, Great to Elite defenders in Smart, White, Horford, Williams, Williams


We need one or more elite players with elite skills. We have some very nice players.

And to your point about trading up for second player, I would absolutely do that. If Detroit or Charlotte doesn't want Scoot at #2 or #3, I would absolutely trade multiple picks to get him now to pair with Wemby or Miller, or whereever we land.

I love you slipping the bald mamba in there

This has been a long painful season knowing the Spurs were never trying to win, so I can't wait for the lottery drawing and the draft to find out what the Spurs do.

Here's a question:

Miles Bridges was a SF for Charlotte. Was RFA last year, but arrested for hitting his GF in front of their children. Pled guilty, no jail time, probation, etc. Did not play this season and is a UFA.

Would you sign him, considering the problems we had last year with Primo?

Bridges turned 25 two weeks ago and last year put up 20/7 with 4 assists, a steal and a block and his shooting is erratic like Keldon, but he's a much better defensive player. But, baggage.

If Charlotte doesn't want to bring him back and we have the #1 pick, Detroit gets #2, and Charlotte gets #3, what about this trade:

We take #3 pick (probably Scoot) and Gordon Hayward, Cody Martin (awful contract) as well as a S&T of Bridges.

We send Charlotte:
Doug (last year deal)
Graham (last year deal)
Branham and/or Wesley
Charlotte's own 1st rounder back
Toronto's 1st or Chicago's 1st
SA 2024 or 25 1st

They dump two bad contracts, get two ending contracts and two rookie deal guys and get 3 first round picks for their #3 pick. Another tank year, but now they have cap space, too. And they need cap space because PJ Washington, Kelly Oubre, and Dennis Smith are free agents.

Wemby/Collins/Bassey
Sochan/Hayward
Bridges/Keldon
Vassell/Keldon
Scoot/Tre (resigned)

I wouldn't want to take Bridges be because I don't think it's the Spurs way to take on questionable guys, but I do think the Spurs should be engaged with teams with bad contracts seeing if they can grab a free pick in exchange for taking on the contract.

Specifically in regards to Charlotte, they have Ball and Rozier so they might not value Scoot the same as others would at 3 or 4, you'd think they want a wing scorer or a big, but if they don't want the baggage of Brandon Miller, they might be willing to listen on some variety of trade that nets them a wing and unloads Hayward. Maybe you send Keldon + Bulls pick and Atlanta 27 unprotected pick in exchange for Gordon Hayward and Charlotte removing protection from the pick they owe us in order to let it convey this year if that gets you Scoot.

This is of course dependent on getting the #1 pick.

I think you can win big eventually with a lineup of

Scoot
Vassell
(Insert 3 and D guy)
Sochan
Wemby

They'd need a couple of years to mature and learn to play with each other but that's the team I'd be trying to build.

Also re: our previous discussions on Wemby, I think the thing I like most about him, is that he seems to love basketball and want to compete. The NBA isn't a league full of guys that give full effort every night, so if you can get a guy that cares night in and night out, that is a big deal. I always thought that was one of the big things about the Manu, Tim and Tony Spurs, they had rest games every once in a while, but when they played, they played hard.

My thought with Charlotte is they can't rebuild with those two awful contracts, plus they need to pay PJ Washington. Oubre, Richards, Williams, Ball, Rozier, and Washington is a solid core if healthy, but if Wemby and Miller are gone, Scoot doesn't help b/c Ball and Rozier. Washington and Walker are too similar. They need 3pt shooting and the Thompson twins won't give them that. So do they draft for need, draft for best available, even though BA is same as your best player or do they take 4 first round picks and clear cap space? Win/win, right?

I agree that after Primo, we are probably less likely to take on a guy with a felony domestic abuse conviction.

Alternatively, we use that 2nd round pick on Caitlin Clark.

I know this. I can't wait until that lottery selection on May 16 because whatever happens that night, the real discussion and wheeling and dealing takes place.

please #1 pick please