How to get Delta under control?

18,264 Views | 178 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by Zobel
Jbob04
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AG
No, if I remember right, it turned into an argument of course and it got deleted.
ETA: couldn't find the original thread but said it in another thread. Looks like ragoo said I was spreading lies.

https://texags.com/forums/84/topics/3178962/3#discussion
Charpie
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AG
Gotcha. To be fair, you had 1 person kinda call you out then the thread got derailed.

But I hear what you're saying. My daughter has been quick to remind us about how its not going to keep us from getting covid, but will lessen the symptoms. So I guess I'm kinda like not surprised about people who have been vaccinated getting sick.
PJYoung
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PJYoung said:

SoupNazi2001 said:

Goes against the narrative



Still not great:

Quote:

Sixty percent of people being admitted to hospital with COVID-19 are unvaccinated, the government's chief scientific adviser has said.

Earlier, Sir Patrick Vallance told a news briefing that figure was for in double-jabbed people. But he later corrected himself on Twitter, saying the original statistic was incorrect.

He posted: "Correcting a statistic I gave at the press conference today, 19 July.

"About 60% of hospitalisations from COVID are not from double-vaccinated people, rather 60% of hospitalisations from COVID are currently from unvaccinated people."

But when you consider most people in the UK are fully vaccinated it becomes a math problem.

PJYoung
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AG
1 more

cone
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the issue being that the vaccines were sold as being something that virtually insured a mild course (not requiring hospitalization) if you caught it

that was absolutely the official line as of two months ago

so something has changed and it's not just the math
Cyp0111
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The vaccine is covering an incredibly large subset of people of all ages. A lot of people in America are very very old, existing sick and even a minor occurrence could put them in the hospital.

Previously, this disease was wiping through retirement homes and it has greatly reduced the risk in the vulnerable populations.

If you placed almost complete personal faith in the vaccine to be an iron shield you were going to be upstet.

The vaccine and wide roll out/adoptions has been stated as the goal.
fig96
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cone said:

the issue being that the vaccines were sold as being something that virtually insured a mild course (not requiring hospitalization) if you caught it

that was absolutely the official line as of two months ago

so something has changed and it's not just the math
By the numbers, looking at total numbers vaccinated vs number of vaccinated hospitalized with serious cases, isn't the initial idea still accurate?-
Teslag
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cone said:

the issue being that the vaccines were sold as being something that virtually insured a mild course (not requiring hospitalization) if you caught it

that was absolutely the official line as of two months ago

so something has changed and it's not just the math


Per the data and doctors on this board it has not changed. Almost all of those hospitalized are unvaccinated.
PJYoung
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Yes 99.5% protected from serious illness isn't 100%.
RafterAg223
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PJYoung said:

Yes 99.5% protected from serious illness isn't 100%.


Anything less than a total force field will be unacceptable for certain people here.
cone
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Quote:

Yes 99.5% protected from serious illness isn't 100%.
i think the 99.5% number is being revised downwards

especially for people over 60

that's what i'm getting at
Teslag
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cone said:

Quote:

Yes 99.5% protected from serious illness isn't 100%.
i think the 99.5% number is being revised downwards

especially for people over 60

that's what i'm getting at


And that goes against US numbers and what doctors on this board are seeing.
Charpie
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You think? Where are you seeing this?
cone
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it doesn't go against Israeli numbers at all

and they have used Pfizer (gold standard) exclusively

it's okay to admit that the vaccine effectiveness is going to wane, especially without boosters and updates

that's why i'm happy to get a booster with an update
Teslag
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cone said:

it doesn't go against Israeli numbers at all

and they have used Pfizer (gold standard) exclusively

it's okay to admit that the vaccine effectiveness is going to wane, especially without boosters and updates

that's why i'm happy to get a booster with an update


Do you live in Israel or the US?
cone
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AG
https://www.timesofisrael.com/just-one-serious-covid-patient-in-israel-is-both-vaccinated-and-under-60-tv/

this article isn't alarmist at all but still they admit

Quote:

The Delta variant is believed to be more successful in bypassing the COVID vaccines than previous strains of the virus. Health Ministry figures released in early July indicated that the Pfizer COVID vaccine is only 64% effective in preventing infection, but it remains 93% effective at preventing hospitalization and serious symptoms.

Some health officials cast doubt on these figures, noting that they were gathered only over a period of a month, and they maintain that the Pfizer vaccine is actually more effective against Delta than claimed. Nevertheless, Pfizer cited data from Israel in seeking authorization from the US Federal Drug Administration for a third booster dose of its vaccine.

Last week, Israel began administering booster doses to those with weakened immune systems, including heart, liver and kidney transplant patients, despite the lack of approval from overseas regulatory agencies. But Health Ministry officials have indicated that third doses for the general population are not imminent, stressing that the vaccine remains largely effective.
Quote:

As to the question of why, in the over-60 group, the majority of seriously ill were vaccinated, the report noted that most people in the age group are vaccinated, and so that population is likely to get more representation. It is also possible that unvaccinated individuals have been more cautious than those who felt protected by the vaccines.
Teslag
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Your own article still says that the vaccine is 93% effective at preventing serious illness which corresponds to US numbers and what doctors on this board are saying. Not sure what drum you are trying to beat here.
RafterAg223
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Salute The Marines said:

Your own article still says that the vaccine is 93% effective at preventing serious illness which corresponds to US numbers and what doctors on this board are saying. Not sure what drum you are trying to beat here.


Trying to stir up fear on a vaccine that is far more successful than any influenza vaccine at achieving its main objective. Preventing serious illness in 93% of patients is a fantastic number any way you choose to look at this. Even preventing infection at a 64% clip is a great success.
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Charpie
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Where were you told that?
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BCG Disciple
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I think I found the answer


Charpie
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AG
Your post still doesn't say that.
Teslag
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SoupNazi2001 said:

Charpie said:

Where were you told that?


https://texags.com/forums/84/topics/3209587/replies/59654004


That single poster was wrong.
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cone
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I don't think I'm crazy to recall that vax effectiveness was once described at 94% avoid symptoms 99.5% serious illness

it's okay if this has waned

but let's be honest even if there's a couple of bumps in the road

and why would the Israeli plan of getting/giving boosters be a bad thing? I'm here for it.
PJYoung
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cone said:

I don't think I'm crazy to recall that vax effectiveness was once described at 94% avoid symptoms 99.5% serious illness

Quote:

A large 2020 trial, involving 30,420 adult volunteers at various sites across the U.S., reports that the Moderna vaccine has a 94.1% efficacy rate against COVID-19, including against severe disease

Quote:

Another study
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.02.15.21251623v3 , which has yet to undergo peer review, investigated the real world effectiveness of the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines. The researchers compared 31,069 vaccinated individuals (having received at least one dose of either vaccine) with 31,069 unvaccinated people.

The findings suggest that getting both doses of either COVID-19 vaccine was 88.7% effective in preventing infection.

Those who did get COVID-19 following vaccination had significantly lower 14-day hospital admission rates than unvaccinated people of a similar demographic.
RafterAg223
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cone said:

I don't think I'm crazy to recall that vax effectiveness was once described at 94% avoid symptoms 99.5% serious illness

it's okay if this has waned

but let's be honest even if there's a couple of bumps in the road

and why would the Israeli plan of getting/giving boosters be a bad thing? I'm here for it.
New Jersey just released data on more than 4.4 million fully vaccinated individuals in their state. They have had about 3,500 breakthroughs and 83 hospitalizations in the vaccinated group. Those numbers reflect a 99% success rate of the vaccine and less than 1/10 of 1% of vaccinated people in their hospitals. Are these numbers good enough for you? Or do only the Israeli numbers continue to count even though the conflict with Jersey, Canada, Scotland, UK?


https://nypost.com/2021/07/19/nj-study-vaccines-more-than-99-effective-against-covid-19/
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PJYoung
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SoupNazi2001 said:

RafterAg223 said:

cone said:

I don't think I'm crazy to recall that vax effectiveness was once described at 94% avoid symptoms 99.5% serious illness

it's okay if this has waned

but let's be honest even if there's a couple of bumps in the road

and why would the Israeli plan of getting/giving boosters be a bad thing? I'm here for it.
New Jersey just released data on more than 4.4 million fully vaccinated individuals in their state. They have had about 3,500 breakthroughs and 83 hospitalizations in the vaccinated group. Those numbers reflect a 99% success rate of the vaccine and less than 1/10 of 1% of vaccinated people in their hospitals. Are these numbers good enough for you? Or do only the Israeli numbers continue to count even though the conflict with Jersey, Canada, Scotland, UK?


https://nypost.com/2021/07/19/nj-study-vaccines-more-than-99-effective-against-covid-19/



You do realize many people have only been vaccinated for a couple of months. Highly likely this number continues to rise over coming months. Many people are seeing that in the trends.


Why would the % of hospitalized rise?

83 out of 3,500 breakthrough cases is pretty amazing.
KlinkerAg11
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I'm fully vaccinated and was directly exposed to a friend who now has Covid.

I'll let you know first hand how well the vaccine is working.

Male 32 moderna.
Capitol Ag
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cone said:

the issue being that the vaccines were sold as being something that virtually insured a mild course (not requiring hospitalization) if you caught it

that was absolutely the official line as of two months ago

so something has changed and it's not just the math


It pretty much still does ensure a mild case. And many were saying in the spring that break through a would happen, hospitalizations would happen and even some deaths. It's still rare now.
74OA
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cone said:

the issue being that the vaccines were sold as being something that virtually insured a mild course (not requiring hospitalization) if you caught it

that was absolutely the official line as of two months ago

so something has changed and it's not just the math
The Israeli experience with Delta confirms that vaccination prevents hospitalization more than 90% of the time. STILL TRUE
cone
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so the >90% figure was hospitalization?

i'm sorry i think that's retconning the initial clinical trial's efficacy figure.
Teslag
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The original efficacy was based on illness, not infection.
 
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