There are some good youtube videos that break this down, one of which is Corridor Crew's channel. One advantage to blanks is you get a more real and visceral reaction from the actors to it.
Accidental shooting on movie set
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Last: 2 yr ago by Decay
aTmAg said:
3 deaths in 40 years is NOTHING. More people get killed in Chicago every weekend. Hollywood people aren't more important than the those victims.
Alec Baldwin is going to get his ass sued off and possibly face criminal charges. That is probably enough consequence to keep this from happening again for another few decades. There is no reason ban guns on set or use CGI or why of this nonsense.
To an extent I agree. As is normal after any incident though, there will be reactionary measures taken. I would assume they have a goal of zero injuries or deaths or incidents though, just like most industry, which is why significant measures will be taken. I think the entertainment industry is inclined to bend a little more to social pressures though so I imagine their reactionary measures could be significant depending on the uproar. I also think the fact that this happened during some union turmoil on and off set is going to increase the measures taken and scrutiny this incident gets by the people who are generally involved in these matters on set.
It is an option. John wick 1 at a minimum uses a true prop gun that doesn't fire. Sound and muzzle flash are added with fx.
There are videos on YouTube where you can see the difference between what was filmed and the final product.
There are videos on YouTube where you can see the difference between what was filmed and the final product.
nai06 said:
Props to History had a good explanation as to why Baldwin didn't check the gun. Essentially it's not his job and the process for filming doesn't work like that
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZM8D2xAda/
That is if he has an experienced, reliable staff managing the process and that there had not already been a bit of a safety **** show with the guns on this set. If some of these reports are true, then he's not going to get the free pass that a video like this wants him to
I bet it would cost a ton to shoot as many blanks as John Wick would require, and that it visually wouldn't look as cool. That it is cheaper and looks better to use CGI. But if you got an indy film with only a few shooting scenes total, then using a gun with blanks is the cheaper way to go. Just make sure they really are blanks.
I was raised that when you are handed a gun, you are responsible for it so you verify whether it's loaded every time. There's no convenience exception. Maybe this isn't the culture or expectation on set, and if so I would argue that that is a bad approach.
I wonder if this will affect actors being named producers when they really aren't. When you're titled like you're in charge, it's supposed to mean you're in charge. And let's be real: regardless of his formal title, Alec Baldwin is on charge on the set of a small movie.
He may have left some things to the experts, but if it comes down to "I, Alec Baldwin, told them to be more careful and follow procedure but little ol me is just a cog in the machine", I'm going to to call bulls***.
He may have left some things to the experts, but if it comes down to "I, Alec Baldwin, told them to be more careful and follow procedure but little ol me is just a cog in the machine", I'm going to to call bulls***.
Aggie12B said:
Here's my thoughts regarding the alec baldwin shooting. If it happened somewhere other than on a movie set, alec baldwin (as the person who pulled the trigger) would probably be charged with 2nd degree murder (or negligent homicde at a minimum) and potentially plea bargained down to manslaughter. The asst director (as the person who loaded the gun and handed it to the shooter) would be charged as an accessory to Murder in the 2nd degree, with the possibility of lesser charges
Alec himself would be tweeting for a harsher penalty...
Last… I suspect that Baldwin is in favor of unions generally, but perhaps not when it could inconvenience him.
Ulrich said:
Last… I suspect that Baldwin is in favor of unions generally, but perhaps not when it could inconvenience him.
Rules for thee but not for me
Ironically, one of the reasons that my industry opposes union workers is that they tend to be far less safe than non-union workers. The union makes sure they get paid well, but does not make sure they are qualified to do their jobs and doesn't let plant management make decisions about who can do what work. They are more expensive, and we have to hire additional people to make sure they don't accidentally kill themselves. Perhaps the dynamic is different in the film industry?
PatAg said:
There are some good youtube videos that break this down, one of which is Corridor Crew's channel. One advantage to blanks is you get a more real and visceral reaction from the actors to it.
Well the actors are being paid to act. If they cannot act with a visceral reaction, maybe they should consider a different line of work. (Not directed at PatAg... just a simple argument against needing real guns on a set)
That makes sense, but it reminds me of a breakdown of a single-take 20-min scene from Extraction. They were using the fake guns with no click or sound - all the actors had to know the timing and react accordingly without really being able to tell when Hemsworth was pulling the trigger. Clearly it's not impossible but it was very challenging - Hemsworth couldn't even mouth "bang" or something, they just had to time it right somehow. And all during what was meant to be about 15 or 20 minutes of nonstop action and stunt work. So I get the desire to have more "realistic" gun props on set, probably makes things a lot easier for everyone in a lot of ways.
Yeah... hindsight may be 20/20, but if these are real guns on set with just blanks loaded, I would want to be the one to verify blanks are loaded in the gun if I am to be handling the gun. Hell, I would assume you would put the actors through gun safety training before being handed a real gun.
Do they not go through safety training? I feel this just shows the sheer ignorance of certain people when it comes to firearms. People love to have opinions on them without really having any knowledge or training. From as early as I can remember, I was taught a gun is always loaded. I don't care if someone ejects the magazine and clears the chamber, if they point it at me, then we have a major problem.
On a movie set, I understand you have to point the gun at people. If that were the case, I would want to be the person to actually load the magazine with blanks and chamber the rounds. I mean, even if I had an expert on set who handed me every gun, I would eject the magazine and verify the rounds are not live.
Again, this comes from my over 30 years of upbringing around firearms and having gun safety drilled into me by my parents.
Do they not go through safety training? I feel this just shows the sheer ignorance of certain people when it comes to firearms. People love to have opinions on them without really having any knowledge or training. From as early as I can remember, I was taught a gun is always loaded. I don't care if someone ejects the magazine and clears the chamber, if they point it at me, then we have a major problem.
On a movie set, I understand you have to point the gun at people. If that were the case, I would want to be the person to actually load the magazine with blanks and chamber the rounds. I mean, even if I had an expert on set who handed me every gun, I would eject the magazine and verify the rounds are not live.
Again, this comes from my over 30 years of upbringing around firearms and having gun safety drilled into me by my parents.
rhutton125 said:
That makes sense, but it reminds me of a breakdown of a single-take 20-min scene from Extraction. They were using the fake guns with no click or sound - all the actors had to know the timing and react accordingly without really being able to tell when Hemsworth was pulling the trigger. Clearly it's not impossible but it was very challenging - Hemsworth couldn't even mouth "bang" or something, they just had to time it right somehow. And all during what was meant to be about 15 or 20 minutes of nonstop action and stunt work. So I get the desire to have more "realistic" gun props on set, probably makes things a lot easier for everyone in a lot of ways.
Even stuff like getting a realistic physical reaction to a gun going off - recoil, shock traveling up the forearms, minute twitches in the faces of everyone on camera. Some of those aren't things you can really act out, they are purely physiological. I don't object to using blanks, but it seems like they might want to engineer guns that look real but don't have an actual firing pin and unobstructed barrel.
The armorer on Baldwin’s movie set, who’s 24 years old, “took the gun back” after the fatal shooting “and removed a spent casing before handing it to sheriff’s deputies” https://t.co/yxc8yIb3b6
— Bill Grueskin (@BGrueskin) October 24, 2021
Saw a segment today on CNN where they had an excerpt from a podcast interview the 24-year-old armor gave relatively recently in which she literally expressed how she wasn't confident loading blanks, it's the thing she feared the most in her work, etc. Not only that, but she actually seemed relived that nothing went wrong on the only other movie she's ever been an armor on, a recent Nic Cage movie. She's only been doing it for one year, and this was just her second movie. Her dad is apparently some "legendary" Hollywood armor, and she'd been learning from him since she was 16.
Clearly, though, a narrative is starting to take shape. It sounds like the producers hired the cheapest armor they could find, with hardly any experience, and it was potentially her inexperience/lack of confidence that led to the tragedy.
Clearly, though, a narrative is starting to take shape. It sounds like the producers hired the cheapest armor they could find, with hardly any experience, and it was potentially her inexperience/lack of confidence that led to the tragedy.
Also, this confirms that isn't wasn't the union props department that walked off set. Just part of the camera crew, apparently.
Goodness. Someone is getting sued to Bolivia.
I hope when she says loading blanks, she is talking about hand loading them, otherwise there is no reason to be scared of putting the round in the weapon and in fairly certain there is no difference between loading the gun with live rounds or blanks. We use dummy rounds at work and there's no difference with them vs live rounds.
I honestly have no clue. She just sounded noticeably apprehensive about doing it.
Yea, what I'm saying is that she was apprehensive about just putting a round in a gun, she absolutely had no business being authorized to handle them, let alone the responsible party for them.
This is outside of all of the other reasons it seems she shouldn't have been authorized to handle them.
This is outside of all of the other reasons it seems she shouldn't have been authorized to handle them.
Sea Speed said:
I hope when she says loading blanks, she is talking about hand loading them, otherwise there is no reason to be scared of putting the round in the weapon and in fairly certain there is no difference between loading the gun with live rounds or blanks. We use dummy rounds at work and there's no difference with them vs live rounds.
It sound like hand loading to me. Still not great from your armorer.
Yea sounds like it but doesn't make it completely clear. I'm not sure what is different about loadig blanks. Obviously you have the casing, primer and powder but put something other than the bullet in to keep the powder in place. Are they really done any different than hand loading standard rounds?
I think the end is usually crimped as well. But very similar to normal reloading
Crimped makes sense. That's what my dog training gun uses, so I can definitely picture it.
Found a story online with all the same podcast quotes from her. She literally called loading blanks the "scariest thing"…
Head Armorer on Alec Baldwin movie 'Rust' was 'nervous' about experience level before taking job: So is this young inexperienced armor going to get blamed for the shooting. Will she be the scapegoat https://t.co/K55RMvGM3O
— T.F. (@Lakotasky) October 23, 2021
Like these:
?v-cache=1547474328
https://www.westernstageprops.com/40-acp-brass-blank-ammunition-p/sa37.htm
?v-cache=1547474328https://www.westernstageprops.com/40-acp-brass-blank-ammunition-p/sa37.htm
Welp, Hollywood armorer is another job where nepotism should be avoided
Yep those are exactly what my dog trainer rounds look like but in. 22
That's not an armorer. That's just some dumbass girl they allowed to be in charge of the guns for some insane reason. This is going to get very expensive for those in charge, and deservedly so. Some negligent homicide jail time seems like it may he in order too
https://www.tmz.com/2021/10/23/alec-baldwin-rust-gun-accident-used-off-set-target-practice/
CNN is an enemy of the state and should be treated as such.
Man. How could they be so stupid/careless?
This is reading like a crime novel. Which of the 50 things that went wrong killed her?!
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