ABATTBQ11 said:

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But did they keep the sets and costumes for 3 years after the final season of GoT?

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This is a different show and in its second season. I'm assuming they kept all the sets and costumes of the first season because timewise it's set like minutes after the end of the first season.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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The Porkchop Express said:

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I appreciate you coming up with a real answer!

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I try...

To understand the problem with the budget, you have to understand how people process disappointment and surprise. The human brain doesn't process them directly, but in relation to prior expectations. The greater the deviation between what's observed and what was expected, the greater the joy/disappointment. Knowing beforehand that the show had such a huge budget, I think people expected something much closer to Andor than Kenobi, and that was totally justified considering the cost per minute of runtime. Instead, we got something comparable to Kenobi for the cost of Andor.

TLDR, the disappointment is high because a certain inflated expectation was set by the budget.

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I think this just falls back into the strata of fandom though. I have literally never known how much any other TV series cost in my entire life and I'm a pretty big entertainment nerd, as the last 2 decades of TexAgs have shown.

It feels more like a place for critics to latch on to and bang the drum over and over. Much like the creator's sexual orientation. .

MASAXET said:

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Well maybe I'm the exception, but I'm enjoying it. And I thought this was a really intriguing episode. Yes, the pacing isn't what I want but the story is interesting to me. And I think Sol and Quimir are really intriguing and the actors have done a great job in the roles. The Osha / Quimir interactions are super interesting to me.

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I'm right there with you and having my non-Star Wars nerd kid be really into it tells me that it's not just for Star nerds.

Some of them bailed after episode 2, for obvious reasons. Some of us keep watching. A handful of people I know are digging it (counting the three or four of yall on here) but most people I mentioned it to are like WTF is this. It does seem most palpable to a youngish female audience, broadly speaking.

Unemployed said:

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The Porkchop Express said:

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Cliff.Booth said:

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The Porkchop Express said:

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Cliff.Booth said:

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The Porkchop Express said:

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and having my non-Star Wars nerd kid be really into it tells me that it's not just for Star nerds.

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I think it's damn near exclusively for them.

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I've got a wife and a daughter proving that theory wrong every damn week.

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I've got a group of friends and family, online ratings, and social media commentary making it pretty plausible. I feel like people still aren't understand that Leslye said she made it for herself as a teenager. It is that, in particular.

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So your friends and family also all continue to watch a show that they all think is terrible?

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It's just like Aggie football. We keep on coming back even though the product on the field sucks.

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Speak for yourself. I bailed after that UCLA game 7-8 years ago.

The Porkchop Express said:

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justnobody79 said:

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obviously not a 1:1 exact comparison but House of the Dragon has roughly the same budget but twice the run length

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I have to believe sets, costumes, and special effects are a big part of a budget. HOTD is reusing, at a guess, 80% of the sets, 80% of the same costumes, and has the dragon models already built for CGI, so no original work there.

TC - if you get on later - can you give some insight on what a writing/production budget looks like from an existing work vs. an original work? I don't know if there is a difference, but it seems at least somewhat inherently easier to write a script from source material that already exists in pretty heavy detail vs. something completely original.

Just as a caveat, some of the Acolyte definitely has looked a little "Star Trek Enterprise" to me but I still can't figure out why people watching the show are mad about the budget.

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I don't quite know what you mean by existing work vs an original work. For the former, are you talking about something that has already had a season or two? Because if so, honestly, sets aren't really that expensive, relatively speaking. The biggest costs are always salaries and VFX, and those are "new" every season.

All that said, here's what I could find in terms of comparisons, so you guys can judge for yourself. Basically, these are some of the most expensive shows in the streaming era, within the same, basic, big-budget action genre...

$465M / 08 episodes = $58.12M per episode = The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power (Season 1)
$350M / 07 episodes = $50.00M per episode = Citadel (Season 1)
$270M / 09 episodes = $30.00M per episode = Stranger Things (Season 4)
$225M / 09 episodes = $25.00M per episode = WandaVision (Season 1)
$140M / 06 episodes = $23.00M per episode = Loki (Season 2)
$180M / 08 episodes = $22.50M per episode = The Acolyte (Season 1)
$250M / 12 episodes = $20.08M per episode = Andor (Season 1)
$200M / 10 episodes = $20.00M per episode = House of the Dragon (Season 1)
$160M / 08 episodes = $20.00M per episode = Westworld (Season 4)
$150M / 08 episodes = $18.75M per episode = Fallout (Season 1)
$136M / 08 episodes = $17.00M per episode = One Piece (Season 1)
$135M / 09 episodes = $15.00M per episode = The Last of Us (Season 1)
$120M / 08 episodes = $15.00M per episode = The Mandalorian (Season 3)
$120M / 08 episodes = $15.00M per episode = The Sandman (Season 1)
$100M / 08 episodes = $12.50M per episode = Ahsoka (Season 1)

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All that said, here's what I could find in terms of comparisons, so you guys can judge for yourself.

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Broad question: Do y'all think at this point in time, ~900 years since the Sith are last seen, the Jedi are still training/teaching Padawans about their ancient enemy?

2 things I found interesting from the last scene of the episode

1) You can't see crap of the Darth Teeth helmet, which meant Qui'mir fought entirely with only the Force guiding him for most of the fight in Episode 5.

2) That scene of her trying the helmet on is very reminsicent of something from one of many scrapped earlier versions of ROTJ where Luke defeats Vader and dislodges the helmet. At the Emperor's bidding, Luke puts the helmet on (imagine that smell) and is commanded to fire the Death Star's laser onto Endor to complete his journey to the Dark Side, but instead he fires it at a star destroyer and then the whole thing with the lightning and Vader's redemption happen.

I missed light whip scars, but I'd say the biggest other big indicator of future events in this episode was Qui-mir saying nobody can read your mind when you have the helmet on. That would suggest maybe Osha has it on in a climactic moment where she has to decide Dark or LIght, and surprises (probably Sol) by killing him.

would be sort of like the incredible ending to X-Men First Class when Magneto gets Kevin's Bacon helmet off him and puts it on himself to keep Charles from interfering when Magneto kills Kevin Bacon.

redline248 said:

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Broad question: Do y'all think at this point in time, ~900 years since the Sith are last seen, the Jedi are still training/teaching Padawans about their ancient enemy?

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I asked that same question after the Sith reveal by Qui-mir. The council seems very secretive, so I bet not. I bet it's something you only hear about if you get to a certain level. IDK if any of you guys have read "The Passage" series by Justin Cronin, but that theory reminds me of that book.

In that book, the US has been overrun by a sort of bio-engineered vampiric creature. There's a colony of survivors in California that have about 100 years of sustainable power. Their kids all stay in sort of sanctuary where they rarely see their parents for the first 12-14 years of their life. They don't teach them anything at all about what the world outside is like until they are old enough to go start working a job outside in the colony.

Feels like only if you became a Jedi Master or were on that track would they mention it.

Also interested in how old Qui-mir is. He seems to elude he's a lot older than he looks.

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Feels like only if you became a Jedi Master or were on that track would they mention it.

Also interested in how old Qui-mir is. He seems to elude he's a lot older than he looks

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So if Qimir is a former Jedi, like he says, who wants to be left alone and do what he wants, when/where did he learn about the Sith? At the temple, or from another Sith that found him?

Osha and Mae are like 24, so I would guess Qimir is pushing mid-30s to 40? Another question is how long ago did he find Mae? How long ago did he get "thrown away," to use his words.

redline248 said:

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Feels like only if you became a Jedi Master or were on that track would they mention it.

Also interested in how old Qui-mir is. He seems to elude he's a lot older than he looks

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So if Qimir is a former Jedi, like he says, who wants to be left alone and do what he wants, when/where did he learn about the Sith? At the temple, or from another Sith that found him?

Osha and Mae are like 24, so I would guess Qimir is pushing mid-30s to 40? Another question is how long ago did he find Mae? How long ago did he get "thrown away," to use his words.

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Qi Mir could be much older than he looks like vernestra

The Porkchop Express said:

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TCTTS said:

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All that said, here's what I could find in terms of comparisons, so you guys can judge for yourself.

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Nope, we need everything spoonfed to us, way to be disengenous in your research of information for others. Classic TC.

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I've had a few positives to say along the way, they're just overshadowed by a really poorly written and produced show. The show is being carried by the acting of Jacinto and Lee Jung-Jae. I found some of the fighting sequences in episode 5 to be well choreographed. But overall the pacing is weird, the dialogue is bad, most of the acting is really poor, and with only 2 episodes left this entire season seems to be mostly pointless. I'm genuinely curious why/how this series is as off as it is. Part of me has thought maybe the next episode will somehow take us somewhere that elevates what we've seen so far, but with each passing episode I'm kind of baffled at the choices made.

For a general question, something I thought about, but it was kind of overshadowed in rhein that happened in Ep 5...

Is this the first time in Star Wars history that someone just shrugged off a stun? Does cortosis somehow negate sin effects?

redline248 said:

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For a general question, something I thought about, but it was kind of overshadowed in rhein that happened in Ep 5...

Is this the first time in Star Wars history that someone just shrugged off a stun? Does cortosis somehow negate sin effects?

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In the Darth Bane book where he starts life as a slave mining cortosis, it is resistant to all forms of energy, so they have to mine it with traditional equipment, which is why Darth Bane is built like a middle linebacker because they use straight mechanical equipment, not laser cutting stuff.

I do remember some of those books, including his mining background making him a slab. Don't remember the cortosis, at all. I suppose that will have to be why it didn't work.

I'm in the "enjoyed the last two episodes" camp. Writing still isn't great but it was better. I like sol and Qimir. Solid acting from those guys. I hope they can trend more in this direction rather than what we saw in the previous ones.

Agree last episode was slow but it was the first episode where I feel like
acting and the way it was shot felt far better but it was probably just those 2 carrying it. Think episode 6 was better than 1-4.

Finally caught up. I felt 5 was easily the best so far, but even then I didn't leave fully satisfied. 6…eh, better than 1-4 but that's such a low hurdle in my book that it doesn't feel like much. I will echo the sentiments that several others have; I think the plot has a lot of potential, but the way they're telling it is just keeping that potential from coming to fruition. I'm not a film nerd or expert or anything, so I don't know how to explain what keeps bothering me aside from this weird feeling of wanting to know what happens next, but being simultaneously utterly bored with what's on the screen.

One question for those of you more versed in the lore/canon: the whole "Jedi can't strike an 'unarmed' person," has that always been so stupid? Like when Sol has his blade at Qimir's throat and Osha stops him…why didn't he just say "did you see homie throw 5+ Jedi across the meadow?! If his head is on his shoulders, he's armed…" I would think that rule goes away when dealing with force users. But maybe that's true to canon (still stupid, but at least I'd understand why it's in the show)

I think it's more about sol falling to the dark side by killing out of anger. When he has disabled quimir, he can detain and arrest him which would be the right thing to do. Killing him would be revenge, and letting his emotions control him.

This