bobbranco said:

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Ag83 said:

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bobbranco said:

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Ag83 said:

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bobbranco said:

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Ag83 said:

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bobbranco said:

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Whatever. It's in the impeachment document

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OK, you have no idea what you're talking about. l Thanks for confirming.

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You think the impeachment documents do not allege criminal acts or delineate criminal offenses?

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They do not represent formal criminal charges (which is/was my point) no matter how much you try to make it so. But I will concede that is more than we have for many of these Biden pardons.

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I was told an offense never makes it to a criminal charge by Pinochet... You now have a clue.

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Just stop. You obviously can't answer the question directly.

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I answered it. Nixon's crimes were known. What exactly are Milley's crimes? Or Cheney's? You have no paper trail with any alleged offenses.

You are not convincing me with your nuanced retorts.

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And you're not convincing me with your dodging. Nixon had no criminal charges against him. Period. Which was my initial point. You have refuted nothing.

Bunch of despicable democrats all need pargoning for there crimes.

Someone may challenge it, but it is highly likely they will lose. The pardon power is broad. And if you're going to limit it, it's going to require amending the constitution.

All crimes have elements, or acts or "offences" that must be proven to convict someone of a crime. The pardon basically says that any act that someone covered under the pardon may or may not have done is essentially an element that can't be used in charging someone with a crime.

Gnome Sayin said:

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So could Fauci kill a hooker at this point?

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Since pardons can't go into the future, no. And unless the murder was committed in DC, it would be a state crime, so also no.

HTownAg98 said:

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Biden believes they acted lawfully. Trump may believe they acted unlawfully. The pardon removes all doubt.

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Bull***** Biden is covering his and (secondarily) his family's ass and no amount of shameless lawyer language can deny that fact.

Pursue them criminally at the state level and civilly sue them into the poor house

You refuse to admit the criminal acts were delineated in the impeachment. Those impeachable acts and others would have been used to prosecute Nixon. The acts, err offenses, were known. If you don't understand this simple fact, I don't know what to say other than you are being purposefully obtuse and I can't trust any of your arguments.

I will ignore you.

HTownAg98 said:

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Someone may challenge it, but it is highly likely they will lose. The pardon power is broad. And if you're going to limit it, it's going to require amending the constitution.

All crimes have elements, or acts or "offences" that must be proven to convict someone of a crime. The pardon basically says that any act that someone covered under the pardon may or may not have done is essentially an element that can't be used in charging someone with a crime.

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So to my point earlier in the thread, had Biden chosen to pardon EVERY illegal alien currently in the United States by acclimation, then they too - even though they wouldn't be individually named - would have their offences washed clean because of the breadth of the pardon power?

I mean, since we're going there, why not? The Constitution doesn't mandate that the individuals be named. Based on your argument, he can blanket pardon an entire class of people because he doesn't like a law.

For that matter, why not pardon every Democrat for every action that they take while in DC? It would make those nasty Epstein issues go away for sure.

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So to my point earlier in the thread, had Biden chosen to pardon EVERY illegal alien currently in the United States by acclimation, then they too - even though they wouldn't be individually named - would have their offences washed clean because of the breadth of the pardon power?

I mean, since we're going there, why not? The Constitution doesn't mandate that the individuals be named. Based on your argument, he can blanket pardon an entire class of people because he doesn't like a law.

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Yes, he could pardon them.

But as explained several times here and other threads, Trump could still deport them!

bobbranco said:

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You refuse to admit the criminal acts were delineated in the impeachment. Those impeachable acts and others would have been used to prosecute Nixon. The acts, err offenses, were known. If you don't understand this simple fact, I don't know what to say other than you are being purposefully obtuse and I can't trust any of your arguments.

I will ignore you.

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I wish you had ignored me to begin with at this point. No criminal charges had ever been filed against Nixon. Which was my point all along to anyone who read, and more importantly, comprehended my original post.

You have no clue. Impeachment is a criminal matter and charges were defined and brought forward by impeachment process. Subsequent charges for actual criminal prosecution would and could be direct from impeachment. You are not making sense nor convince me with your head in sand observations.

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Article I, Section 3, Clause 7:

Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

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https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S3-C7-1/ALDE_00000037/#:~:text=Judgment%20in%20Cases%20of%20Impeachment,and%20Punishment%2C%20according%20to%20Law.

bobbranco said:

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You have no clue. Impeachment is a criminal matter and charges were defined and brought forward by impeachment process. Subsequent charges for actual criminal prosecution would and could be direct from impeachment. You are not making sense nor convince me with your head in sand observations.

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Article I, Section 3, Clause 7:

Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

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https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S3-C7-1/ALDE_00000037/#:~:text=Judgment%20in%20Cases%20of%20Impeachment,and%20Punishment%2C%20according%20to%20Law.

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For the Love of God ignore me like you said you were going to do. I wish I had ignored you. You have no business telling anyone else they don't understand.

You are not convincing me. Apologies.

outofstateaggie said:

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Biden pardons this morning on his way out include Anthony Fauci, Liz Cheney, Bennie Thompson, Zoe Lofgren, Adam Schiff, Pete Aguilar, Stephanie Murphy, Jamie Raskin, Elaine Luria and Adam Kinzinger.

If they did nothing wrong, why the pardons?

Unless…

— Joe Concha (@JoeConchaTV) January 20, 2025

Adam Schiff as well.

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How many more spots are needed for the public gallows?

bobbranco said:

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You are not convincing me. Apologies.

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And you are not convincing me. But for these Biden pardons, the recipients aren't even subject to the impeachment process, much less had specific and explicit criminal wrongdoings filed against them. I was simply trying to distinguish between alleged wrongdoings in the political realm (impeachment) vs formal criminal charges in the judicial realm. Again, I do not know if all those cases in Trump's first term pardons were, indeed, charged in the judicial system or not, but they seem to have been. We know Nixon had never been formally charged in the judicial system.

If you are incapable/unwilling to comprehend the difference between these, I can't help you further.

Don't we have Cheney on record illegally tampering with a witness? There are texts.

Ag83 said:

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bobbranco said:

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You are not convincing me. Apologies.

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And you are not convincing me. But for these Biden pardons, the recipients aren't even subject to the impeachment process, much less had specific and explicit criminal wrongdoings filed against them. I was simply trying to distinguish between alleged wrongdoings in the political realm (impeachment) vs formal criminal charges in the judicial realm. Again, I do not know if all those cases in Trump's first term pardons were, indeed, charged in the judicial system or not, but they seem to have been. We know Nixon had never been formally charged in the judicial system.

If you are incapable/unwilling to comprehend the difference between these, I can't help you further.

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Before making assumptions maybe confirm. Trump was not charged in the judicial system for the Ukraine crap. It was made up jibberish. It was considered a criminal act by the Democrats and Mitt Romney.

I know exactly what you are trying to say but it means absolutely nothing vis-a-vis you trying to correlate Ford's pardon of Nixon pardon to any one of the recent Biden pardons. Nixon's pardon was due to the known criminal acts in the impeachment proceedings. They were ready to bring criminal charges even though he resigned.

There are no known criminal acts EVER defined against Milley, or Fauci, or Hunter. Very simple distinction. The ONLY similarity between Ford's pardon of Nixon and the Biden pardons are that they are blanket pardons.

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Before making assumptions maybe confirm.

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It's like you never bothered to try to understand my original post that you were responding to. Or you were just incapable of understanding it. Whatever. You can't cite any criminal charge(s) against Nixon that was my point of that pardon.

Ag83 said:

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Quote:

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Before making assumptions maybe confirm.

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It's like you never bothered to try to understand my original post that you were responding to. Or you were just incapable of understanding it. Whatever. You can't cite any criminal charge(s) against Nixon that was my point of that pardon.

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I cited the criminal charges from the impeachment. Those are known acts and offenses that you completely disregard along with the fact that impeachment is a criminal proceeding. Non judicial but does not matter if the same acts can become a judicial matter.

You don't like to study but make assumptions. I get it.

See the link I provided previously and study before making claims I don't understand.

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Those who have been impeached and removed from office are still subject to criminal prosecutions for the same underlying factual matters, and individuals who have already been convicted of crimes may be impeached for the same underlying behavior later.

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YouBet said:

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Don't we have Cheney on record illegally tampering with a witness? There are texts.

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Yes.

bobbranco said:

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Ag83 said:

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bobbranco said:

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You are not convincing me. Apologies.

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And you are not convincing me. But for these Biden pardons, the recipients aren't even subject to the impeachment process, much less had specific and explicit criminal wrongdoings filed against them. I was simply trying to distinguish between alleged wrongdoings in the political realm (impeachment) vs formal criminal charges in the judicial realm. Again, I do not know if all those cases in Trump's first term pardons were, indeed, charged in the judicial system or not, but they seem to have been. We know Nixon had never been formally charged in the judicial system.

If you are incapable/unwilling to comprehend the difference between these, I can't help you further.

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Before making assumptions maybe confirm. Trump was not charged in the judicial system for the Ukraine crap. It was made up jibberish. It was considered a criminal act by the Democrats and Mitt Romney.

I know exactly what you are trying to say but it means absolutely nothing vis-a-vis you trying to correlate Ford's pardon of Nixon pardon to any one of the recent Biden pardons. Nixon's pardon was due to the known criminal acts in the impeachment proceedings. They were ready to bring criminal charges even though he resigned.

There are no known criminal acts EVER defined against Milley, or Fauci, or Hunter. Very simple distinction. The ONLY similarity between Ford's pardon of Nixon and the Biden pardons are that they are blanket pardons.

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Impeachment is purely a political process. No one will ever be thrown in jail after being impeached. However, evidence that comes out in an impeachment could be used in a criminal trial. But those are two distinct matters, and you don't need to do anything criminal to be charged with impeachment. You can literally impeach someone for putting beans in their chili.

I am going to be a little bit of a contrarian and go against the grain here in terms of Biden. As he leaves the White House. I believe you should give credit where credit is due. Biden is an old man in the winter of his life.
However, year after year and decade after decade he has been extraordinarily consistent
as a person in terms of being a complete POS. As he leaves the White House, it is obvious he has recommitted himself to that goal till the bitter end of his corrupt amoral life.

aggiehawg said:

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YouBet said:

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Don't we have Cheney on record illegally tampering with a witness? There are texts.

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Yes.

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Hey aggiehawg, I don't know if you answered this. If you did can you just give me a quick response. Can he proactively pardon somebody for a crime they have not been charged with ?? Thanks !!!

HTownAg98 said:

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bobbranco said:

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Ag83 said:

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bobbranco said:

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You are not convincing me. Apologies.

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And you are not convincing me. But for these Biden pardons, the recipients aren't even subject to the impeachment process, much less had specific and explicit criminal wrongdoings filed against them. I was simply trying to distinguish between alleged wrongdoings in the political realm (impeachment) vs formal criminal charges in the judicial realm. Again, I do not know if all those cases in Trump's first term pardons were, indeed, charged in the judicial system or not, but they seem to have been. We know Nixon had never been formally charged in the judicial system.

If you are incapable/unwilling to comprehend the difference between these, I can't help you further.

---

Before making assumptions maybe confirm. Trump was not charged in the judicial system for the Ukraine crap. It was made up jibberish. It was considered a criminal act by the Democrats and Mitt Romney.

I know exactly what you are trying to say but it means absolutely nothing vis-a-vis you trying to correlate Ford's pardon of Nixon pardon to any one of the recent Biden pardons. Nixon's pardon was due to the known criminal acts in the impeachment proceedings. They were ready to bring criminal charges even though he resigned.

There are no known criminal acts EVER defined against Milley, or Fauci, or Hunter. Very simple distinction. The ONLY similarity between Ford's pardon of Nixon and the Biden pardons are that they are blanket pardons.

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Impeachment is purely a political process. No one will ever be thrown in jail after being impeached. However, evidence that comes out in an impeachment could be used in a criminal trial. But those are two distinct matters, and you don't need to do anything criminal to be charged with impeachment. You can literally impeach someone for putting beans in their chili.

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Huh? I know this. Are you saying that Nixon was impeached for a non-criminal act similar to putting beans in chili? News to me.

Your trial will be fair... https://t.co/mOBZvc5vwF

— @amuse (@amuse) January 20, 2025

Yep.

bobbranco said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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bobbranco said:

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Ag83 said:

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bobbranco said:

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You are not convincing me. Apologies.

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And you are not convincing me. But for these Biden pardons, the recipients aren't even subject to the impeachment process, much less had specific and explicit criminal wrongdoings filed against them. I was simply trying to distinguish between alleged wrongdoings in the political realm (impeachment) vs formal criminal charges in the judicial realm. Again, I do not know if all those cases in Trump's first term pardons were, indeed, charged in the judicial system or not, but they seem to have been. We know Nixon had never been formally charged in the judicial system.

If you are incapable/unwilling to comprehend the difference between these, I can't help you further.

---

Before making assumptions maybe confirm. Trump was not charged in the judicial system for the Ukraine crap. It was made up jibberish. It was considered a criminal act by the Democrats and Mitt Romney.

I know exactly what you are trying to say but it means absolutely nothing vis-a-vis you trying to correlate Ford's pardon of Nixon pardon to any one of the recent Biden pardons. Nixon's pardon was due to the known criminal acts in the impeachment proceedings. They were ready to bring criminal charges even though he resigned.

There are no known criminal acts EVER defined against Milley, or Fauci, or Hunter. Very simple distinction. The ONLY similarity between Ford's pardon of Nixon and the Biden pardons are that they are blanket pardons.

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Impeachment is purely a political process. No one will ever be thrown in jail after being impeached. However, evidence that comes out in an impeachment could be used in a criminal trial. But those are two distinct matters, and you don't need to do anything criminal to be charged with impeachment. You can literally impeach someone for putting beans in their chili.

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Huh? I know this. Are you saying that Nixon was impeached for a non-criminal act similar to putting beans in chili? News to me.

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If you read that into what I said, I now realize why this has been a futile effort on my part.

nortex97 said:

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Your trial will be fair... https://t.co/mOBZvc5vwF

— @amuse (@amuse) January 20, 2025

Yep.

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On behalf of defense companies across the world we would like to thank you for your exceptional leadership in guiding Russian to invade Ukraine. Through you and Biden's core policies of appeasement and cowardice being the foundation of our foreign policy in dealing with hostile nations that hate the United State. Nations that want to break our country's back. Your inside the Beltway brilliance of Replacing " Peace through strength " with incompetence through gaveling and weakness, has benefitted the defense industry worldwide allowing them and their shareholder to reap the rewards for decades to come !!

HTownAg98 said:

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bobbranco said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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bobbranco said:

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Ag83 said:

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bobbranco said:

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You are not convincing me. Apologies.

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And you are not convincing me. But for these Biden pardons, the recipients aren't even subject to the impeachment process, much less had specific and explicit criminal wrongdoings filed against them. I was simply trying to distinguish between alleged wrongdoings in the political realm (impeachment) vs formal criminal charges in the judicial realm. Again, I do not know if all those cases in Trump's first term pardons were, indeed, charged in the judicial system or not, but they seem to have been. We know Nixon had never been formally charged in the judicial system.

If you are incapable/unwilling to comprehend the difference between these, I can't help you further.

---

Before making assumptions maybe confirm. Trump was not charged in the judicial system for the Ukraine crap. It was made up jibberish. It was considered a criminal act by the Democrats and Mitt Romney.

I know exactly what you are trying to say but it means absolutely nothing vis-a-vis you trying to correlate Ford's pardon of Nixon pardon to any one of the recent Biden pardons. Nixon's pardon was due to the known criminal acts in the impeachment proceedings. They were ready to bring criminal charges even though he resigned.

There are no known criminal acts EVER defined against Milley, or Fauci, or Hunter. Very simple distinction. The ONLY similarity between Ford's pardon of Nixon and the Biden pardons are that they are blanket pardons.

---

Impeachment is purely a political process. No one will ever be thrown in jail after being impeached. However, evidence that comes out in an impeachment could be used in a criminal trial. But those are two distinct matters, and you don't need to do anything criminal to be charged with impeachment. You can literally impeach someone for putting beans in their chili.

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Huh? I know this. Are you saying that Nixon was impeached for a non-criminal act similar to putting beans in chili? News to me.

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If you read that into what I said, I now realize why this has been a futile effort on my part.

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You adding the beans in chili was a perfect opportunity for sarcasm. LOL.

YouBet said:

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Don't we have Cheney on record illegally tampering with a witness? There are texts.

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This is the one that screams. She (and others) doesn't need to be convicted and sentenced, but her lying ass needs to be in front of a committee answering questions that will set a record straight and be the embarrassment to the Dems it should be.

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Huh? I know this. Are you saying that Nixon was impeached for a non-criminal act similar to putting beans in chili? News to me.

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Newsflash: Nixon was never impeached by the House. Articles were drawn up but never voted on since he resigned. One other item of note the firing of Archibald Cox was NOT in the Articles of impeachment against Nixon. IOW, he had authority to fire him.

aggiehawg said:

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Huh? I know this. Are you saying that Nixon was impeached for a non-criminal act similar to putting beans in chili? News to me.

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Newsflash: Nixon was never impeached by the House. Articles were drawn up but never voted on since he resigned. One other item of note the firing of Archibald Cox was NOT in the Articles of impeachment against Nixon. IOW, he had authority to fire him.

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I know this news. Even though the impeachment remained in committee when Nixon was told to and he did resign, the criminal charges, part and parcel to the impeachment process, were being actively pursued. Heck the basis of many impeachment claims were based on grand jury deliberations. The Supreme Court got involved with the tapes. There were long knives out for Nixon as you know. The only thing that saved Nixon from impeachment and the resulting criminal prosecution was his resignation and eventual pardon.

Now any politician can go completely rogue and wait for a pardon?

WTH?