GrapevineAg said:

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So hire a hit man to eliminate your opposition and then immediately pardon them. Is that where we're headed?

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No you kill the hit man immediately, no pardons needed. Just like the guy on the roof didn't need a pardon.

Logos Stick said:

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Also, I see where Vindman is crying on social media about not getting a pardon. Hopefully he ends up in prison.

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Is prison the penalty for sedition?

bobbranco said:

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BMX Bandit said:

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Quote:

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The Constitution states the President has the power to pardon people convicted of crimes.

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where you getting this version of the constitution? temu?


its saying nothing about convictions:

Quote:

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The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

---

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Asking a stupid question. How do you classify it as an offense if no lawsuit is filed?

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Just has to be an act.

i hope that these peole who have been locked away illegally are better people than me. because there is no way i would not get revenge. if you had lost everything. like some have for nothing there is no way they wouldn't hear my name one more time. but that's just me.

HTownAg98 said:

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bobbranco said:

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BMX Bandit said:

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Quote:

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The Constitution states the President has the power to pardon people convicted of crimes.

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where you getting this version of the constitution? temu?


its saying nothing about convictions:

Quote:

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The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

---

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Asking a stupid question. How do you classify it as an offense if no lawsuit is filed?

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Just has to be an act.

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An act that has not been legally determined to be a crime?

Would love to see Trump issue a preemptive pardon to several random people just to troll the press.

bobbranco said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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bobbranco said:

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BMX Bandit said:

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Quote:

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The Constitution states the President has the power to pardon people convicted of crimes.

---

where you getting this version of the constitution? temu?


its saying nothing about convictions:

Quote:

---

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

---

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Asking a stupid question. How do you classify it as an offense if no lawsuit is filed?

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Just has to be an act.

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An act that has not been legally determined to be a crime?

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A court decides that.

I'd round up everyone of these treasonous "pre-pardoned" asshats in the middle of the night and put them on the first thing smoking to Guantanamo or a black site.

American Hardwood said:

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In the case of Fauci, can they bring him back to testify again and where he either lies again and perjure himself or he can tell the truth with the protection of the pardon?

We need to find a friendly country we have an extradition agreement with to bring suit against Fauci for crimes against humanity, preferably one with a poor track record of prisoner treatment, and send his evil ass to them to take care of.

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This is what needs to happen

if you lie during a Congressional Hearing AFTER a pardon you can be charged with perjury.

HTownAg98 said:

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bobbranco said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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bobbranco said:

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BMX Bandit said:

---

Quote:

---

The Constitution states the President has the power to pardon people convicted of crimes.

---

where you getting this version of the constitution? temu?


its saying nothing about convictions:

Quote:

---

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

---

---

Asking a stupid question. How do you classify it as an offense if no lawsuit is filed?

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Just has to be an act.

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An act that has not been legally determined to be a crime?

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A court decides that.

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Yes. If a court does not decide, how is it an offense?

Now we are going in circles.

Quote:

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A waste of time and resources. I'd rather DOJ spend their time deporting illegal immigrants.

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Deflect much? Why not both? These are not mutually exclusive.

GrapevineAg said:

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So hire a hit man to eliminate your opposition and then immediately pardon them. Is that where we're headed?

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In the wet dreams of many, I'm sure.

The only problem is what's good for the goose will be made good for the gander. That's where the real fun starts: when each side uses their victory march to the WH to eliminate anyone who opposed them.

Then we'll truly be no different than third-world sheethole countries like Russia. Good times.

Didn't Bidens DOJ tell Jan 6 folks that a pardon was admission of guilt?

Milley is another self-centered corrupt Catholic putz same as Biden.

I'm not understanding pardoning someone without them being charged with anything? Did the pardon include a situational condition "if charged with xxxx, then pardoned"? I'm sure if the justice system really found something, they could word it to by pass a pre-charge pardon.

Has this sort of pardon ever been done before?

HTownAg98 said:

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Conviction isn't mentioned anywhere in the pardon power in the constitution. It only refers to "offences." That could be something as little as an act that hasn't been charged.

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Quote:

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and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

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I want to see the list of "offenses" these individuals were pardoned for.

Yes, and also forgot --guilty for leaving an open border. That's arguably something the Pentagon should have exposed. Very unworthy batch past few years.

As a Catholic you won't find me defend fakes ones in the least. Any talking about `sanctity of abortion' like the hardline Dems like Biden are fake.

BTKAG97 said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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Conviction isn't mentioned anywhere in the pardon power in the constitution. It only refers to "offences." That could be something as little as an act that hasn't been charged.

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Quote:

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and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

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I want to see the list of "offenses" these individuals were pardoned for.

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That's the Achilles Heal of this whole thing. Somewhat doubtful its valid --- pardoning for unspecified crimes. So could they join Hamas and blow up London and not be charged? How does a blanket pardon work legally?

Cromagnum said:

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You cant pardon someone that isn't convicted of anything. I would investigate those POS's anyways.

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Yes, the President can. And accepting pardons are generally considered an admission of guilt by the DOJ. Not that that amounts to anything.

Silvertaps said:

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I'm not understanding pardoning someone without them being charged with anything? Did the pardon include a situational condition "if charged with xxxx, then pardoned"? I'm sure if the justice system really found something, they could word it to by pass a pre-charge pardon.

Has this sort of pardon ever been done before?

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Ford's pardon of Nixon.
Carter pardoning draft dodgers that were never charged.

dmart90 said:

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Cromagnum said:

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You cant pardon someone that isn't convicted of anything. I would investigate those POS's anyways.

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Yes, the President can. And accepting pardons are generally considered an admission of guilt by the DOJ. Not that that amounts to anything.

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More fake news, and we have an appellate court that ruled on this very issue. https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca10/20-3055/20-3055-2021-09-23.html

jkag89 said:

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Hypocrites.

Incredible. https://t.co/cKK0nb8sgX

— Scott Jennings (@ScottJenningsKY) January 20, 2025

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Do we expect a liar NOT to lie?

bobbranco said:

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HTownAg98 said:

---

bobbranco said:

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HTownAg98 said:

---

bobbranco said:

---

BMX Bandit said:

---

Quote:

---

The Constitution states the President has the power to pardon people convicted of crimes.

---

where you getting this version of the constitution? temu?


its saying nothing about convictions:

Quote:

---

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

---

---

Asking a stupid question. How do you classify it as an offense if no lawsuit is filed?

---

Just has to be an act.

---

An act that has not been legally determined to be a crime?

---

A court decides that.

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Yes. If a court does not decide, how is it an offense?

Now we are going in circles.

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The court doesn't decide if an act happened. It decides whether you are guilty of that act. For example, if a person commits a crime and is not prosecuted in time and the statute runs, it doesn't mean the crime didn't happen nor does it mean the person responsible can't be held responsible in other ways. It means you weren't convicted.

"Offences" is the term for something happened and has nothing to do with the judicial system's response to it. We went through this over and over with Hunter Biden's pardon. Pardons are supposed to be the check on the judicial branch's power.

Go after these ****bags every way possible. Financial and reputational ruin. State or congressional investigations. Ruin them with lawfare and make their lives miserable.

That's how the left does it. And these losers deserve justice.

titan said:

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BTKAG97 said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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Conviction isn't mentioned anywhere in the pardon power in the constitution. It only refers to "offences." That could be something as little as an act that hasn't been charged.

---

Quote:

---

and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

---

I want to see the list of "offenses" these individuals were pardoned for.

---

That's the Achilles Heal of this whole thing. Somewhat doubtful its valid --- pardoning for unspecified crimes. So could they join Hamas and blow up London and not be charged? How does a blanket pardon work legally?

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No. They can't be pardoned for future crimes.

BMX Bandit said:

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From sock CinC:

President Biden issues pre-emptive pardons.

“That is why I am exercising my authority under the Constitution to pardon General Mark A. Milley, Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the Members of Congress and staff who served on the Select Committee, and the U.S. Capitol and D.C. Metropolitan…

— Manu Raju (@mkraju) January 20, 2025

Quote:

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That is why I am exercising my authority under the Constitution to pardon General Mark A. Milley, Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the Members of Congress and staff who served on the Select Committee, and the U.S. Capitol and D.C. Metropolitan police officers who testified before the Select Committee. The issuance of these pardons should not be mistaken as an acknowledgment that any individual engaged in any wrongdoing, nor should acceptance be misconstrued as an admission of guilt for any offense. Our nation owes these public servants a debt of gratitude for their tireless commitment to our country.

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I see this issue as a cover up of wrong doing and preventing any meaningful investigation into crimes these people committed.

I encourage dialogue from others.

\More info here

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The president can only pardon people for federal offenses. That leaves personal offenses by people who were affected by Covid and all of Fauci's quackery and any states that may have been affected by his fraudulent activities.

HTownAg98 said:

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dmart90 said:

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Cromagnum said:

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You cant pardon someone that isn't convicted of anything. I would investigate those POS's anyways.

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Yes, the President can. And accepting pardons are generally considered an admission of guilt by the DOJ. Not that that amounts to anything.

---

More fake news, and we have an appellate court that ruled on this very issue. https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca10/20-3055/20-3055-2021-09-23.html

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Quote:

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The Justice Department has long construed acceptance of pardons as an admission of guilt, even though it's legally disputed. Prosecutors recently warned that Jan. 6 defendants who accept pardons from Trump would similarly be admitting guilt, and some of them have signaled their intent to turn down clemency to continue fighting their convictions.

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https://www.politico.com/news/2025/01/20/biden-pardons-fauci-milley-jan-6-committee-00199244

HTownAg98 said:

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2023NCAggies said:

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CDUB98 said:

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Everyone be sure to understand, this is not Biden doing this, this is the Commie regime protecting itself. It just happens to be Biden's signature.

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Go after them, F this piece of paper

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A waste of time and resources. I'd rather DOJ spend their time deporting illegal immigrants.

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Wow. Pursuing justice is never a waste of time. They can do both. We've got the money and resources, especially after he fires half of your brethren who work for the worthless agencies.

bobbranco said:

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HTownAg98 said:

---

bobbranco said:

---

HTownAg98 said:

---

bobbranco said:

---

BMX Bandit said:

---

Quote:

---

The Constitution states the President has the power to pardon people convicted of crimes.

---

where you getting this version of the constitution? temu?


its saying nothing about convictions:

Quote:

---

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

---

---

Asking a stupid question. How do you classify it as an offense if no lawsuit is filed?

---

Just has to be an act.

---

An act that has not been legally determined to be a crime?

---

A court decides that.

---

Yes. If a court does not decide, how is it an offense?

Now we are going in circles.

---

Nixon's pardon also included crimes that weren't charged. It's common.

Pinochet said:

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bobbranco said:

---

HTownAg98 said:

---

bobbranco said:

---

HTownAg98 said:

---

bobbranco said:

---

BMX Bandit said:

---

Quote:

---

The Constitution states the President has the power to pardon people convicted of crimes.

---

where you getting this version of the constitution? temu?


its saying nothing about convictions:

Quote:

---

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

---

---

Asking a stupid question. How do you classify it as an offense if no lawsuit is filed?

---

Just has to be an act.

---

An act that has not been legally determined to be a crime?

---

A court decides that.

---

Yes. If a court does not decide, how is it an offense?

Now we are going in circles.

---

The court doesn't decide if an act happened. It decides whether you are guilty of that act. For example, if a person commits a crime and is not prosecuted in time and the statute runs, it doesn't mean the crime didn't happen nor does it mean the person responsible can't be held responsible in other ways. It means you weren't convicted.

"Offences" is the term for something happened and has nothing to do with the judicial system's response to it. We went through this over and over with Hunter Biden's pardon. Pardons are supposed to be the check on the judicial branch's power.

---

Three things. And I will shut up. And sorry I did not participate on the treatise of weasel words wrt to absolving Hunter.

The judicial branch's power is only exercised when the bad actor is tried and convicted. The judicial branch never exercises any power when ignoring criminal acts.

I wonder how the definition of offence has changed over time.

And if there is no offense defined in the pardon then what is the pardon for exactly?

ETA: I added the third item.

that acceptance of a pardon comes from dicta in Burdick v. US

its an interesting discussion, but not one that really matters legally.

also, "acceptance" of the pardons requires that the person uses the pardon as a defense when they are charged with a crime. I don't think we will ever get to that point.

Adam Kinzinger in 2022: “The only reason to ask for a pardon is because you think you’ve committed a crime.” pic.twitter.com/0R5WDrIu0c

— Natalie Winters (@nataliegwinters) December 13, 2024

HTownAg98 said:

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Silvertaps said:

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I'm not understanding pardoning someone without them being charged with anything? Did the pardon include a situational condition "if charged with xxxx, then pardoned"? I'm sure if the justice system really found something, they could word it to by pass a pre-charge pardon.

Has this sort of pardon ever been done before?

---

Ford's pardon of Nixon.
Carter pardoning draft dodgers that were never charged.

---

But their alleged crimes were known. What are these clowns admitting to -- sedition?