There is good reason the Ls have never gained a toe hold.

It's simply NOT was a substantial portion of Americans want.

Hell, I think socialism is likely more popular than libertarianism these days.

The left convinces dem voters that voting L ensures the evil right will gain power. The right convinces GOP voters that voting L ensures the evil left will gain power. Both sides fall in line every time there is any 3rd option. Maybe one day a solid L candidate will break past that, but unlikey considering how ignorant the electorate is.

There it is. The veiled innuendo that somehow being libertarian means "enlightened".

If only more people would think independently, if only they see the light, then one day the golden age of libertarianism shall be fulfilled!

Or it could be thats those ideals are NOT where a significant number of voting Americans is at.

Also, we did elect a 3rd party candidate in the last 3 elections. His name is Donald J Trump.

Leave the furries (libertarians) alone!

That's the first funny joke he's ever told. https://t.co/zmXC6BEIKm

— Bad Hombre (@Badhombre) March 4, 2026

President of Rand Paul's Fan Club.

FobTies said:

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The left convinces dem voters that voting L ensures the evil right will gain power. The right convinces GOP voters that voting L ensures the evil left will gain power. Both sides fall in line every time there is any 3rd option. Maybe one day a solid L candidate will break past that, but unlikey considering how ignorant the electorate is.

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The problem the Ls have is that voting for their candidates in a national election or even statewide elections requires a giant leap of faith to believe they can win. You have to take a candidate who typically has not won any other major election victory and who has little name recognition outside of the libertarian world and believe that voting for them has a realistic chance of resulting in them actually being elected. The price of being wrong on that leap of faith is getting a democrat elected instead in a race that should be easily won by a R. Most R voters, even those with strong libertarian tendencies, are unwilling to take that chance on a leap of faith. The stakes are simply too high these days with the hard leftward tilt to the democratic alternative.

To produce viable candidates who can inspire that leap of faith, the libertarians should be working really hard to get serious candidates with real world ideas and policy positions elected at the local level. Build recognition of them as serious people with real world solutions to problems and let them build a track record of good governance. THEN you can start running them at the state level and have some hope for success. When you win some statewide races and build a track record of successfully running a state on libertarian principles, THEN you can hope to have that same success running in a federal election. Until you can do that, it is a bridge too far to ask people to take that leap of faith on unproven and largely unknown candidates who too often make their name as bomb throwers whose biggest platform policy is legalizing all drugs.

The problem with running somebody like Rand or Massie as a republican and then trying to vote and legislate on very strict libertarian grounds is that they ran for office as a republican. They put themselves on team R and asked for people's votes on that basis. So when they have a disagreement with team R, people expect them to work out that disagreement within the team and find a way to advocate for their L positions when the opportunities arise to do so WITHOUT HURTING TEAM R IN THE PROCESS. Instead, all too often, Massie throws a big fit and goes to cozy up with his democrat buddies to accomplish things that are objectively not always aligned with team R...the team under whose banner he voluntarily ran for office.

In trying to run for office as an R and then legislate as an L, he is trying to serve two masters. And when his L leanings (and emotional tantrums) lead him to side with the Ds against team R, it is reasonable for people who voted for him as a member of team R to feel like he is acting like a McCain in order to please a different audience.

I am convinced there is not even an argument here. The chances of today's democrat entertaining a true, libertarian candidate is in the very low single digits. Even the most socially liberal libertarian isn't going to be a hard pass for a dem when it comes to entitlements/spending/small government. The fallout from suggesting cuts to any social program is all the evidence you need.

On the other hand there a quite a few republicans who align with the fiscally conservative and smaller government aspects of the platform (see the tea party). That number is much higher depending if the candidate doesn't stray to far into liberal social issues and isolationism with regards to national defense.

Unfortunately where we are today, conservatives like myself will hold my nose and support the republican that aligns with me on 30-90% on policy over today's progressive democrat that can't even approach 10% alignment. Even examples like Bill Maher and Fetterman that get red-pilled here and there still vote in lock step with dems 90% of the time.

93MarineHorn said:

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Honest questions and I hope one of you can explain it to me: There are plenty of living victims of Epstein and his "pedo" pals, right? Why can't they start naming names? You know, ACCUSE somebody of wrongdoing and then we can have a real investigation instead guilt by association and innuendo.

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My guess is that they are scared of getting killed like what happened with that blonde girl named Virginia who write the book. No way she committed suicude. She has told all of her family and friends and even publicly said we would never commit suicide and if she ended up dead that meant someone killed her.

Nothing the media loves more than a rebel traitor "Republican"

How many Americans has Massie killed?

McCain killed at least five in his naval career, but the son of an Admiral gets to keep flying.

Why can't they both be POS?

murphyag said:

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93MarineHorn said:

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Honest questions and I hope one of you can explain it to me: There are plenty of living victims of Epstein and his "pedo" pals, right? Why can't they start naming names? You know, ACCUSE somebody of wrongdoing and then we can have a real investigation instead guilt by association and innuendo.

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My guess is that they are scared of getting killed like what happened with that blonde girl named Virginia who write the book. No way she committed suicude. She has told all of her family and friends and even publicly said we would never commit suicide and if she ended up dead that meant someone killed her.

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You may want to "check your facts" on Virginia. Her family confirmed her suicide, shared a note and encouraged others to work on their mental health. She was very emotionally unstable, damaged which is no surprise given the abuse, scrutiny and infamy she endured.

But don't just blindly feed a conspiracy.

Gilligan said:

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How many Americans has Massie killed?

McCain killed at least five in his naval career, but the son of an Admiral gets to keep flying.

Why can't they both be POS?

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Does Massie have a statue in a foreign war zone commemorating their part in an enemy's victory? Didn't think so.

A lot of folks clearly don't remember how terrible a person John McCain really was.

Military career, political career (russiagate, obamacare, Ukraine-forever wars, Keating 5, just to name a few), his whole life was a farcical, spiteful parody of patriotism/honor.

Mark Kelly continues his legacy well.

Votes like a Democrat and collects money like Democrats

Quote:

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BREAKING - Newly revealed FCC records show Thomas Massie received several $7,000 donations from donors surnamed Mahrouq, who also backed Ilhan Omar, Ro Khanna, Cori Bush, and Keith Ellison, with 79% of his donors also contributing to Democrats and ActBlue.

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BREAKING - Newly revealed FCC records show Thomas Massie received several $7,000 donations from donors surnamed Mahrouq, who also backed Ilhan Omar, Ro Khanna, Cori Bush, and Keith Ellison, with 79% of his donors also contributing to Democrats and ActBlue. pic.twitter.com/xPQseqkwgK

— Right Angle News Network (@Rightanglenews) March 6, 2026

Interesting. Sounds a lot like the fake conservatives in the Texas House. Not principled, just on the take.

Prostitution is the oldest profession in the world, after all.

You make some fair points. But miss the biggest reason no L can win. Even if the perfect winnable L candidate ran, the duopoly machine would change debate rules, limit media exposure, and handicap in other ways. At least up to now. Maybe with X and other new viral capabilities, that systematic barrier can be broken. Probably a couple elections cycles away.

Most Americans are actually Libertarian in principle wanting more freedom to live life how they choose, under a gov that is fiscally responsible. Trump ran on many anti-establishment Libertarian principles:

No new wars, DODGE/eliminating regs, cutting taxes, appointing Judges to repeal Roe vs Wade, de-scheduling weed, only candidate to ever speak at L convention, and more.

Forum Troll said:

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Quote:

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would be having a nuclear meltdown if you swap a democrat for Trump and keep everything else the same

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This. Massie is one of the few people in govrnement I can say I still respect

FarmerFran said:

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Forum Troll said:

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Quote:

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would be having a nuclear meltdown if you swap a democrat for Trump and keep everything else the same

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This. Massie is one of the few people in govrnement I can say I still respect

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votes with libs and takes money from the same donors and lobbyists. Always good to respect a guy who pledges allegiance only to himself. So principle.

KentK93 said:

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Votes like a Democrat and collects money like Democrats

Quote:

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BREAKING - Newly revealed FCC records show Thomas Massie received several $7,000 donations from donors surnamed Mahrouq, who also backed Ilhan Omar, Ro Khanna, Cori Bush, and Keith Ellison, with 79% of his donors also contributing to Democrats and ActBlue.

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BREAKING - Newly revealed FCC records show Thomas Massie received several $7,000 donations from donors surnamed Mahrouq, who also backed Ilhan Omar, Ro Khanna, Cori Bush, and Keith Ellison, with 79% of his donors also contributing to Democrats and ActBlue. pic.twitter.com/xPQseqkwgK

— Right Angle News Network (@Rightanglenews) March 6, 2026

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This is my shocked face…. For somebody so principled, I would have expected his price to be higher.

Yeah. He stands up for those who are paying him off. Truly worthy of respect.

Damn the people he represents. Damn America.

What a tool! Votes like a Democrat & sounds like a Democrat!

Massie: Iran is not Venezuela. The Ayatollah was not a president. He was a religious leader… The United States and Israel turned him into a martyr. And in the process of doing so, we've already expended billions of dollars and… solemnly, six American families must now lay to… pic.twitter.com/UVjaym6K7E

— unusual_whales (@unusual_whales) March 8, 2026

KentK93 said:

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What a tool! Votes like a Democrat & sounds like a Democrat!

Massie: Iran is not Venezuela. The Ayatollah was not a president. He was a religious leader… The United States and Israel turned him into a martyr. And in the process of doing so, we've already expended billions of dollars and… solemnly, six American families must now lay to… pic.twitter.com/UVjaym6K7E

— unusual_whales (@unusual_whales) March 8, 2026

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Wonder how much that speech earned him?

The both suck. They both took a heavy payday to determine how the would vote and could care less about the common people as politicians.

Again Massie principled is the same as the far left but remember it's principled but is just the same as the left but a principled vote that looks like a leftist vote you don't understand this is a principled vote that is the same as a leftist vote but it's a principled vote just like all the other principled votes that are the same as the left but Massie's is principled!

https://pjmedia.com/tim-o-brien/2026/04/17/thomas-massie-votes-with-the-squad-to-remove-president-trumps-war-powers-n4951900

I still think it's so weird that we didn't hear anything about the Epstein files between 2020 and 2024.

annie88 said:

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I still think it's so weird that we didn't hear anything about the Epstein files between 2020 and 2024.

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Does that indicate something to hide?

annie88 said:

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I still think it's so weird that we didn't hear anything about the Epstein files between 2020 and 2024.

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Remember when we learned that our wealthiest and most powerful people were connected to a guy who ran a literal child sex trafficking ring? And then that guy died mysteriously in a jail? And now we just don't talk about it.

— JD Vance (@JDVance) September 4, 2021

I heard Massie won't even worship Putin and Orban like the typical republicans do! Yikes

KentK93 said:

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Again Massie principled is the same as the far left but remember it's principled but is just the same as the left but a principled vote that looks like a leftist vote you don't understand this is a principled vote that is the same as a leftist vote but it's a principled vote just like all the other principled votes that are the same as the left but Massie's is principled!

https://pjmedia.com/tim-o-brien/2026/04/17/thomas-massie-votes-with-the-squad-to-remove-president-trumps-war-powers-n4951900

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I will be voting NO on final passage of the FISA 702 Reauthorization Bill if it does not include a warrant provision and other reforms to protect US citizens’ right to privacy.

Yesterday I offered these 3 amendments to fix the program, but they were not allowed last night. pic.twitter.com/VjN1DVwieP

— Thomas Massie (@RepThomasMassie) April 15, 2026

Hey make sure you post this one too, just Massie voting for the constitution again.

MAGA was all about ending FISA until Trump flipped on it and now we have to maintain the government's surveillance apparatus

it is crazy how quick MAGA is to abandon their principles for their principal.

Seek help.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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Seek help.

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seek help quickly