***Official USMNT-WCQ Octagonal Thread***

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BJM1781
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In reply to JJxvi • 2:13p, 11/5/21
AG
JJxvi said:
because they are generally the only guys in the player pool old/experienced enough to drink (when in the US) in most cases.
OK. I will concede your point there on the age. And I like how you framed it.

Our best players certainly skew toward the young end. Though, I still disagree that another manager would continue to bring in these same guys.

Regardless, I am 100% behind this team and whomever manages it. Been that way for several decades now. I just enjoy debating the merits of every manager/coach, so thanks for indulging me!

And don't get me started on Ole...
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JJxvi
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2:24p, 11/5/21
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Yeah, I don't think any coach would relish the prospect of picking basically a U-23 team and have a view that that would be the best and most balanced team to pick.

Look at the midfielders and forwards in the team just named. The guys we are talking about (Acosta, Lletget, Roldan, and Arriola) are the only ones older than 23. And this is a roster picked to play a game against Mexico. Reyna would obviously be in the team if healthy, but it would be hard for any coach to decide that he's gonna drop experienced players to play with all 18-21 year olds like Hoppe, Sargent, Pomykal, etc etc. He's also already had once incident in qualifying where he had to send a 23 year old home (and one who previously has worn the armband for this team).
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BJM1781
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2:27p, 11/5/21
AG
Really missing Reyna. And just saw he's going to be out longer than expected. Dortmund is hoping he can play before the end of the year, but it ain't looking great.

Hoping this is just an anomaly and we don't have a Pulisic situation with recurring injuries.

Good news is that all of these young guys will be in their prime and more mature when we host the Cup. Already have high hopes for a deep run in '26.
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jessexy
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In reply to deadbq03 • 9:54p, 11/5/21
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deadbq03 said:
IIRC, Sands looked good as a middle CB in a back 3 in Gold Cup but then looked like sheer dog poo as a 6 in our first WCQ window.

Looked it up: yeah he stank it up as a 6 against Honduras and got subbed off.
Sands stunk it up at both CB and 6 during the Gold Cup. People were perplexed by him remaining in the lineup more than any of Berhalter's other odd decisions in that tournament. Sands looked extremely out of place the entire time he was on the field.
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jessexy
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10:07p, 11/5/21
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Just wanted to point out there are 6 FC Dallas players in this roster and they've played together at different points in their careers as pros or in the academy. Pepi and Jesus are there together and work excellently together. I know most haven't been watching FCD lately, but Jesus has been awesome, even better than Pepi, for FCD.

McKennie played with Jesus and Reggie Cannon in the academy and they know each other very well. Chris Richards is a bit younger, but has experience with both Pepi and Jesus also. Hell, they were all in Germany together training with Bayern Munich over winter breaks too. and they hung out with both McKennie (Schalke) and Pulisic (BVB) at different times.

Kellyn Acosta played with these guys as they were academy players training with the first team. McKennie looked up to him as a youth and he actually helped show Reggie the right back ropes since that's where Kellyn started out as a pro.

I'm not even including Zimmerman, who was a FCD draft pick as a teenager and started several years. IMO, Berhalter is looking for a certain familiarity in this team with these selections. I'm not convinced that works, but it's very similar to when Spain was calling 6-8 players from Barcelona and putting them on the field together (admittedly that's a stretch but nobody else can say what Berhalter is thinking in his head).
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PatAg
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10:24p, 11/5/21
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I really hope Pomykal can fully recover, and then stay healthy. Could be wishful thinking at this point, unfortunately.
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jeffk
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9:01a, 11/8/21
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Interesting. https://soccer.nbcsports.com/2021/11/08/christian-pulisic-message-thomas-tuchel-usmnt-injury/

Quote:
Chelsea 'worried' about Pulisic being overused

A reporter asked Tuchel if he was worried about Pulisic being called straight back into the USMNT squad after a lengthy period out with his ankle injury.

"The answer is if you look at the minutes like you said, the question is maybe answered. I hope that they don't overuse him and are responsible enough," Tuchel said.

"Christian still feels some pain. It is a matter of pain management. It's not a matter of a re-injury or being still injured. It's just still painful. He has tried hard. He wants desperately to come back. We needed him back. It was a good start for him in Malmo. Today he had 10 minutes [against Burnley]. We are a bit worried.

"Hopefully everybody, including himself, is responsible and doesn't get carried away by emotions and by helping his country to win a super important match. Hopefully it all goes well and the minutes will elevate him and he will come back stronger."

Given Pulisic's lengthy injury issues since he joined Chelsea in the summer of 2018, Tuchel's concern is understandable.
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oh no
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9:12a, 11/8/21
AG
wonder if Gregg uses CP10 as a super sub in both games or just starts him v Mexico and he doesn't come in @Jamaica.


edit: I suppose, Greggg could try to fight like hell for a point in Cincinnati v Mex without CP and if we get no points, start him and try to get three points and some away goals in JAM?


good news is there is no games in Panama, Honduras, El Salvador, etc. where concacafing would be the most brutal.
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Mathguy64
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9:27a, 11/8/21
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The clubs are really starting to complain about players like CP who are working back to fitness after an injury and who then leave on to play for their national team in breaks.

Right now PSG is openly angry at Messi. He's rehabbing an injury and has missed games for the club and he's leaving to fly 6000 miles to play for Argentina.

This has always been an issue. I get the sense it's becoming a big one especially with FIFA clamoring for a money grab WC every two years.
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PatAg
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In reply to Mathguy64 • 9:57a, 11/8/21
AG
Mathguy64 said:
The clubs are really starting to complain about players like CP who are working back to fitness after an injury and who then leave on to play for their national team in breaks.

Right now PSG is openly angry at Messi. He's rehabbing an injury and has missed games for the club and he's leaving to fly 6000 miles to play for Argentina.

This has always been an issue. I get the sense it's becoming a big one especially with FIFA clamoring for a money grab WC every two years.
Like you said, clubs have always behaved this way, but players are always going to choose to play in World Cup Qualifying and they have to deal with it.

I am as against a WC every two years as I can be in the sports world. It makes no sense at all.
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TamuKid
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10:02a, 11/8/21
AG
Not talked about enough on here as everyone focuses on gameday lineups, tactics, etc.

But this is a great, well thought out article on an unsung portion of camp:

https://watke.substack.com/p/usmnt-team-dinner-seating-chart
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akm91
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In reply to TamuKid • 10:06a, 11/8/21
AG
Watke gets a B- for failure to include adjacent or adjacency in his article.
"And liberals, being liberals, will double down on failure." - dedgod
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TamuKid
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In reply to akm91 • 10:52a, 11/8/21
AG
akm91 said:
Watke gets a B- for failure to include adjacent or adjacency in his article.


That's a concern, but what the more shocking omission to me was lack of discussion around table shape and centerpiece. He assume circular tables. What if rectangular? That's a completely different dynamic. And I'd the centerpiece is large and obstructive that could also throw the dynamics off. I agree, while fairly thorough compared to most journo standards today, it lacks final finish.
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deadbq03
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In reply to PatAg • 10:56a, 11/8/21
AG
PatAg said:
I am as against a WC every two years as I can be in the sports world. It makes no sense at all.
I'd be all for it if (and only if) they overhauled the amount of CONCACAF BS. I'd much rather watch us play in a WC every two years than suffer through Nations League or whatever BS comes out next at the CONCACAF level.

In conjunction, the WCQ path would need to be overhauled if it was a two year cycle. I'd honestly like to see Gold Cup turn into a Champions League style format, with group stage, then home-and-home knockouts instead of one-offs. If you do that, then you can reasonably make Gold Cup become the qualifying event for the next WC. And with it being just a 2 year cycle, it's not the end of the world if you had a bad Gold Cup and failed to qualify.

That would be a manageable workload and I think be more entertaining… every summer is a Gold Cup or a World Cup. But it would obviously be a monumental shift in how things are done so I imagine it'll never happen.
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PatAg
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In reply to deadbq03 • 12:11p, 11/8/21
AG
deadbq03 said:
PatAg said:
I am as against a WC every two years as I can be in the sports world. It makes no sense at all.
I'd be all for it if (and only if) they overhauled the amount of CONCACAF BS. I'd much rather watch us play in a WC every two years than suffer through Nations League or whatever BS comes out next at the CONCACAF level.

In conjunction, the WCQ path would need to be overhauled if it was a two year cycle. I'd honestly like to see Gold Cup turn into a Champions League style format, with group stage, then home-and-home knockouts instead of one-offs. If you do that, then you can reasonably make Gold Cup become the qualifying event for the next WC. And with it being just a 2 year cycle, it's not the end of the world if you had a bad Gold Cup and failed to qualify.

That would be a manageable workload and I think be more entertaining… every summer is a Gold Cup or a World Cup. But it would obviously be a monumental shift in how things are done so I imagine it'll never happen.
I think you are ignoring all the other qualifying that goes on before the last stage.
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akm91
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12:25p, 11/8/21
AG
USMNT Twitter posted that Aaron Long is in spending the week with the team in camp as he continues to rehab.

"And liberals, being liberals, will double down on failure." - dedgod
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oh no
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1:01p, 11/8/21
AG
Do we still like A Long after two significant injuries better then Miazga?
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akm91
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In reply to oh no • 1:09p, 11/8/21
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oh no said:
Do we still like A Long after two significant injuries better then Miazga?
It's not either or. The more options there are the more likelihood that we'll be able to select CB that are playing consistently and playing well.
"And liberals, being liberals, will double down on failure." - dedgod
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deadbq03
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In reply to PatAg • 1:32p, 11/8/21
AG
The teams that need those early stages to try to get into the next Gold Cup won't be playing in the current World Cup so that could happen in the Spring/Fall on both sides of a WC. Being in the WC would be an automatic qualification to the next Gold Cup's group stage.

The only reason we have a 4 year cycle at all is because travel used to be prohibitively expensive in both time and money. (And they modeled it on the Olympics, which suffered from the same problem). Commercial air travel was in its infancy… most (all?) teams in the early competitions would've probably traveled for weeks on a boat. 70-90 years ago, teams were doing dang near nothing between WCs.

Now their plate is full of all kinds of BS because travel is cheaper and easier than they could've imagined. Call me crazy, but I'd rather see the elite WC games happen more frequently, and get rid of all the extraneous BS that's grown up to fill airtime around an a 4 year cycle.
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KCup17
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4:22p, 11/8/21
AG
Alex Mighten, 19 yo Nottingham Forest winger, is set to commit his future to the USA. Has played with the England youth teams from U15 through U20. One to keep your eye on for future cycles.
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tysker
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In reply to KCup17 • 7:45p, 11/8/21
AG
Solid name
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theNetSmith
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In reply to TamuKid • 8:10a, 11/9/21
AG
TamuKid said:
akm91 said:
Watke gets a B- for failure to include adjacent or adjacency in his article.


That's a concern, but what the more shocking omission to me was lack of discussion around table shape and centerpiece. He assume circular tables. What if rectangular? That's a completely different dynamic. And I'd the centerpiece is large and obstructive that could also throw the dynamics off. I agree, while fairly thorough compared to most journo standards today, it lacks final finish.
Most round dining tables I've seen at large dining functions seat either 6 or 8 people. Either way, who gets left out and has to sit at the staff table?
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akm91
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In reply to theNetSmith • 8:34a, 11/9/21
AG
Of course it would be the cool adjacent players get to sit with staff.
"And liberals, being liberals, will double down on failure." - dedgod
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jeffk
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9:16a, 11/9/21
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Berhalter responds to Tuchel: https://soccer.nbcsports.com/2021/11/09/christian-pulisic-usmnt-message-thomas-tuchel-usmnt-injury-berhalter/

"I think the important thing is that Christian leaves camp healthy and ready to push on with Chelsea," Berhalter said. "That's gonna be first and foremost in our minds, and then when we get him in camp, seeing exactly where he's at and seeing exactly what his role will be, so we haven't determined exactly what his role will be but I'm sure he'll be on the field in these games."

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deadbq03
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In reply to jeffk • 10:45a, 11/9/21
AG
Having him off the bench is better than not having him at all.
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jeffk
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In reply to deadbq03 • 10:48a, 11/9/21
AG
Indubitably.
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oh no
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11:03a, 11/9/21
AG
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PatAg
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In reply to jeffk • 12:07p, 11/9/21
AG
jeffk said:
Berhalter responds to Tuchel: https://soccer.nbcsports.com/2021/11/09/christian-pulisic-usmnt-message-thomas-tuchel-usmnt-injury-berhalter/

"I think the important thing is that Christian leaves camp healthy and ready to push on with Chelsea," Berhalter said. "That's gonna be first and foremost in our minds, and then when we get him in camp, seeing exactly where he's at and seeing exactly what his role will be, so we haven't determined exactly what his role will be but I'm sure he'll be on the field in these games."

In my mind, I would have him as a super-sub against Mexico. How early depends on how the game is going. Maybe at halftime, maybe not until the 60th minute, we will see.

Ideally we wouldnt even need him against Jamaica, but potentially as a super sub again

I think it would be better to use him as a sub, then start him and KNOW you are spending a sub on him. I think having him come on against tired legs would be most effective.
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jeffk
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12:25p, 11/9/21
AG
Herc Gomez brought up a good point on his show about this by saying it was a little concerning that this conversation happened in public and through the media. Also that all three parties (Greg, Tuchel, and CP) are well aware of his status and they should all be working towards getting him fit but apparently at least one of the parties thought it necessary to air this out publicly. So there's a rift here somewhere.
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oh no
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12:32p, 11/9/21
AG
I predict Greggg uses him as a sub on both match days, just as Tuchel did with him the last two Chelsea matches.

edit - if we're getting our asses kicked in 2H in Cincy, don't even play him, then consider starting him in Jamaica so we can fight like hell for some away points
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TamuKid
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12:50p, 11/9/21
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If he's healthy enough to go at least 45 against Mexico he needs to start.
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KCup17
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In reply to TamuKid • 12:59p, 11/9/21
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I think he should only start if he can go 60-70 mins. Anything less than that he needs to come off the bench.
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Rudyjax
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1:00p, 11/9/21
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I think we should plan on him playing 30 and if we don't need him, don't play him.

And he's my favorite player all time.
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theNetSmith
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In reply to TamuKid • 3:32p, 11/9/21
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TamuKid said:
If he's healthy enough to go at least 45 against Mexico he needs to start.
seems to me the risk of injury against Mexico is exponentially higher than against our other opponents.

i wouldn't want to be in the same stadium with some of those guys for 45 minutes.
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deadbq03
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In reply to jeffk • 4:50p, 11/9/21
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jeffk said:
Herc Gomez brought up a good point on his show about this by saying it was a little concerning that this conversation happened in public and through the media. Also that all three parties (Greg, Tuchel, and CP) are well aware of his status and they should all be working towards getting him fit but apparently at least one of the parties thought it necessary to air this out publicly. So there's a rift here somewhere.
I'm not trying to shoot the messenger here, but do we know for sure that this conversation only happened publicly via the media?

We see Tuchel answering media questions about Pulisic. Then presumably someone asked Gregg about it and he answered. But the fact that both guys answered questions about it to the media doesn't necessarily mean there wasn't a private conversation or email exchange or whatever beforehand.

I view both coaches' comments as them simply managing fan expectations. Maybe I'm wrong.
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