Team doesn't have an identity other than go be athletic. The problem is they don't look they're willing as a unit to suffer enough to go all out press for that long (nor do I think that's a viable tactic against top teams at this point).

To me it starts and stops with the midfield and I don't know if there are any real, viable options other than what we've seen.

I don't think this squad has the mindset to go grind it out against Sweden...that's going to be a fist fight of a game and we just aren't up to it I fear.

Furlock Bones said:

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Made worse by the fact that it's carried from the group to the knockout stage. If I'm not mistake, you can pick up a yellow in the 1st group match, a second in the qtrs, and then miss the semis.

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While you can mis a knockout stage game from two yellows in group play, I thought once you make it to the knockout stage it resets.

I think Naeher is garbage. Don't think he has a choice to put a different GK in for a Round of 16 game though. remember the WWC in China when Solo got replaced by Scurry?

I'm in the minority but I don't think Ertz in midfield is the answer. She's still recovering from injury and not in full form yet. Playing her at CB keeps her running down and helps her. I'd probably rather see Sonnett in midfield than Ertz. The problem is that Cook is a better option at CB than Sonnett is at midfield so moving Ertz helps you get Cook onto the field.

O'hara is washed.

Part of Vlatko's problem is too many old players on this team.

Yellow cards reset after the quarterfinal, so that no one can miss the final due to yellow card accumulation

TXAggie2011 said:

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Yellow cards reset after the quarterfinal, so that no one can miss the final due to yellow card accumulation

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Thank you for correction

Hand Of God said:

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Completely agree. Earning a yellow each game just means you're playing hard but still within the rules. Why are we punishing people at the highest level for that?

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You think players should get a yellow card a game, every game?

Knucklesammich said:

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Team doesn't have an identity other than go be athletic. The problem is they don't look they're willing as a unit to suffer enough to go all out press for that long (nor do I think that's a viable tactic against top teams at this point).

To me it starts and stops with the midfield and I don't know if there are any real, viable options other than what we've seen.

I don't think this squad has the mindset to go grind it out against Sweden...that's going to be a fist fight of a game and we just aren't up to it I fear.

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are the even that more athletic? They looked slow, sloppy, and didn't pass very well at all.

Rapinoe came in and made bad passes, got out ran, and had lousy set pieces

Portugal wasn't outplayed, it could be argued they outplayed the US, they had the better shots at goal

Hand Of God said:

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Completely agree. Earning a yellow each game just means you're playing hard but still within the rules. Why are we punishing people at the highest level for that?

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I don't entirely agree. Yellow card play is in a grey area or perhaps, ahem, a "yellow" area, between hard play "within the rules" and what's clearly not "within the rules" (for which you get straight red cards.)

Every league I can think of has some sort of yellow card accumulation rule. Just like the NBA has flagrant foul accumulation rules.

Regular fouls exist to be used professionally and I was always coached in soccer and basketball that you're given them for a reason so use them. I don't think the intent of yellow cards is for them "to be used."


I think reasonable minds can disagree as to how many should result in a suspension, but again, I don't think yellow card fouls are behaviors we're trying to encourage, per se.

Yeah it's been weird to watch. The midfield has been a glaring weakness throughout the tournament. In addition it seems like we just hit it to smith and have her try to out run the defense. Surprised how selfish the front 3 are in front of goal there have been plenty of chances to play in another player with a better shot but take on a shot that has a less likely chance of being successful.

We've been very underwhelming. But what I don't know is if it's the players or if it's the coach.

KCup17 said:

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Yeah it's been weird to watch. The midfield has been a glaring weakness throughout the tournament. In addition it seems like we just hit it to smith and have her try to out run the defense. Surprised how selfish the front 3 are in front of goal there have been plenty of chances to play in another player with a better shot but take on a shot that has a less likely chance of being successful.

We've been very underwhelming. But what I don't know is if it's the players or if it's the coach.

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It's both. The team isn't very technically gifted so the coach has resorted to a simple style of play to use what little athleticism is left: lump it down the left side and hope for the best.

What also is frustrating is that Smith is our best attacking option and she constantly gets the ball with her back to goal.

Quote:

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The midfield has been a glaring weakness throughout the tournament. In addition it seems like we just hit it to smith and have her try to out run the defense.

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It's been a huge weakness under Vlatko's reign and he still hasn't fixed it. He introduced several new players in the pool, but chose to take one that barely played with the rest of the team.

I would have no issue with it.

A yellow is nothing more than a warning, so what's the problem?

Right but it's equivalent to a technical in the NBA. Two and you're out of a game. They don't suspend someone a game for two technicals over three games. They do it after 7 technicals are accrued both in regular season and playoffs.

Sure there are physical players in the NBA who skirt the line and the same would happen in soccer, but they err on the side of wait and see before they give a suspension

It's just too stiff a punishment in soccer in my eyes.

Jim01 said:

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Right but it's equivalent to a technical in the NBA. Two and you're out of a game. They don't suspend someone a game for two technicals over three games. They do it after 7 technicals are accrued both in regular season and playoffs.

Sure there are physical players in the NBA who skirt the line and the same would happen in soccer, but they err on the side of wait and see before they give a suspension

It's just too stiff a punishment in soccer in my eyes.

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You can't compare tournament rules to regular season rules. For example, if you pick up 5 YC in the 1st half of the EPL season (19 games), you're suspended 1 game.

Mathguy64 said:

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Hand Of God said:

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I would have no issue with it.

A yellow is nothing more than a warning, so what's the problem?

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A yellow is a signal that your behavior has crossed a line and to not do it again.

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You literally just defined the word warning.

Jim01 said:

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Right but it's equivalent to a technical in the NBA. Two and you're out of a game. They don't suspend someone a game for two technicals over three games. They do it after 7 technicals are accrued both in regular season and playoffs.

Sure there are physical players in the NBA who skirt the line and the same would happen in soccer, but they err on the side of wait and see before they give a suspension

It's just too stiff a punishment in soccer in my eyes.

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Flagrant fouls are more akin to red and yellow cards, probably. The NBA uses a points system but can be suspended after 5 flagrant 1s or 3 flagrant 2s.

The NBA season is also 82 games and they play 7 game playoff series.

I don't know the answer, but I also don't think any soccer fan would watch the two highlights from Rose and think she deserves to sit an entire game. How about maybe just sit a half? Or go more champions league where its three yellow cards between Matchday 1 of the group stage and the second leg of the quarter-finals.

Anyway, I digress.

Further, I wouldn't overlook the policy choice that they want attractive soccer at these big tournaments.

Nor do they want overmatched teams coming in and just beating the **** out of better teams in order to secure a draw.

2 does feel harsh but if you go to 3 yellow cards, you start to eat up the rule because you could get a yellow in every group game and not be suspended.

Hand Of God said:

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Mathguy64 said:

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Hand Of God said:

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I would have no issue with it.

A yellow is nothing more than a warning, so what's the problem?

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A yellow is a signal that your behavior has crossed a line and to not do it again.

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You literally just defined the word warning.

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Except it's more than a warning.

A foul can carry a warning in the way of a quiet verbal cue, even a public ass chewing. The yellow is saying you have gone too far and if you do it again you are done and your team is punished. It's saying "change your behavior. Now". And everyone on the field and stadium now knows it.

TXAggie2011 said:

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Further, I wouldn't overlook the policy choice that they want attractive soccer at these big tournaments.

Nor do they want overmatched teams coming in and just beating the **** out of better teams in order to secure a draw.

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Soccer penalty box?

I maybe would do accumulation of 2 in consecutive games. That way if you pick one up in game 1 or 2 you can modify how you play for a game and get out of yellow card jail.

Or we follow hockey one step further and just let the enforcers duke it out.

My biggest issue with the rule as it stands is that it's very harsh relative to the fact that a yellow card is very broadly defined and games can vary wildly in how they are called (and therefore what constitutes a yellow card).

You can get a yellow for time wasting. You can get a yellow for a reckless challenge. You can get a yellow for a lot of insignificant challenges (persistent infringement). You can get a yellow for diving. You can get a yellow for complaining about a call (dissent). Comparing it to a technical foul or a flagrant foul doesn't do it justice because I feel both of those are much more defined and vary less between referee.

There are just way too many things you can get a yellow for in order for that suspension to make any sense. You add on top of that the fact that what constitutes each of those offenses above can vary significantly by referee and it's just a nonsensical punishment in a tournament that will be at most 7 games.

I wish they'd review all yellow cards after matches and use some sort of metric to determine if they're worth considering towards accumulation and a match ban. Sure, it's probably tricky and would make for some head scratching decisions, but you'd also eliminate a missed match due to a flop or a referee losing their **** and tossing too many soft cards around.

My biggest problem too. Some referees give out yellows like candy, and others never give yellows, so it really becomes a crapshoot. I am not in favor of the 2 yellows and you sit a game rule at all. 3 in 3? maybe, but 2 in 3, too strict, and the fact that it actually becomes 2 in 4 or 5 games is ridiculous.

jeffk said:

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I wish they'd review all yellow cards after matches and use some sort of metric to determine if they're worth considering towards accumulation and a match ban. Sure, it's probably tricky and would make for some head scratching decisions, but you'd also eliminate a missed match due to a flop or a referee losing their **** and tossing too many soft cards around.

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You could separate yellows for fouls versus misconduct. Take out dissent, delaying a restart or failure to respect the distance that is almost never given anyway. Accumulate reckless challenges and handling.

Fair points by all but...that feels like the first step to creating an orange card (or something similar). If you're going to parse out the "important" and "unimportant" yellow card offenses, you might as well just call them two separate things.

I'm not saying an orange card, or something similar, is a bad idea. Just pointing it out.

The reality is most cards are reckless fouls, handling and dissent. The rest are just a collection of spots on a bingo card. Let the in game punishment stand. A second yellow for anything and you are done. Just accumulate the ones you want to really have the player stop doing.

Hand Of God said:

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The "foul" Lavelle earned her yellow on was a joke. She got pushed from behind and fell into the player making it look like a hard tackle. She was right to be upset with the ref.

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She was out of control and fell into the player trying to hold up on her tackle. You don't have to be doing an intentionally dangerous challenge to get a yellow. The other player barely touched her.

Mathguy64 said:

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The reality is most cards are reckless fouls, handling and dissent. The rest are just a collection of spots on a bingo card. Let the in game punishment stand. A second yellow for anything and you are done. Just accumulate the ones you want to really have the player stop doing.

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The only thing I would be in favor of, would be reviewing cards to see if the ref was fooled by a dive.
But it would have to be an independent committee, and theyd have to be the same one for the whole tournament to be consistent.
Then the question is, how do you decide if its a dive? No contact at all? Exaggeration? Its tough

A lot of players are fouled, and then exaggerate the contact so that the foul is noticed.

It would be a tough job…