So with Scola gone, the longest tenured Rocket is Kevin Martin who most people believe is on the way out. If some combination of Martin, Patterson, Parsons or Morris get traded, they may only have 1-2 people leftover from last year. Has there ever been crazy turnover like this recently in the NBA? It's almost like a brand new expansion team.

From Espn

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Rockets officials, though, remain steadfast in their belief that, even if the Bulls decline to match on Asik, that they'll be able to absorb at least three of the four aforementioned Magic role players: Richardson, Davis, Duhon and Turkoglu. Sources say that the Rockets would have to send Kevin Martin, Patrick Patterson, Marcus Morris and Chandler Parsons to the Magic from their current roster to make the salary-cap math work, as well the draft rights to Jeremy Lamb, Royce White and Terrence Jones, all selected in last month's first round.

The Rockets, in addition, would also have to waive a handful of players with non-guaranteed contracts (Shaun Livingston, Courtney Fortson, Josh Harrellson, Jerome Jordan, Jon Leuer, Diamon Simpson and Greg Smith) to clear sufficient cap space. But Houston, sources say, is also offering multiple first-round picks to the Magic, including a potential lottery pick acquired this week from Toronto in the Kyle Lowry deal. Future picks are known to hold great appeal to new Magic general manager Rob Hennigan and no team in the recent running for Howard -- Brooklyn and the Los Angeles Lakers are the other two top suitors -- has a first-rounder of that caliber to send to Orlando.

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So who would be left on the team?

do the Rockets receive Howard, or are they still working on the three-team trade with LAL?

I guess Clyde and Bull are under contract with the Rockets still right?

Matt Maloney still under contract until 2021

Morey's willing to completely gut the team to get a year rental.

The more he feverishly tries to slam this trade through, the more the Magic are going to extort from him.

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Morey's willing to completely gut the team to get a year rental.

The more he feverishly tries to slam this trade through, the more the Magic are going to extort from him.

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I'm not even sold on the fact that DH would play. What if he has back "issues" again?

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He's 6'9, 6'10 in shoes. Not many teams START a PF taller than 6'9 on a regular basis

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Scola is 6'8" with no vertical.

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I don't think his personal financial situation really matters here. Let's try to keep the discussion to basketball matters and leave the player's private life out of it.

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Typo but I'll leave it there.

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I'm not even sold on the fact that DH would play. What if he has back "issues" again?

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Basically. Yeah, the team has needed a reboot for a couple of years now, but this much for Howard? When he was surrounded by great complementary players and a more than capable coach, he still played with about 80% effort. This whole off-season has disaster written all over it.

Wow, after reading the proposed trade I tried to think of who we would have left and I literally could not think of anyone except DM at the 4. Here's my attempt at resetting the roster (taken from page 1) after the trade. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong:

New Roster (after DH12 trade)

Guards:
Chris Duhon
Jason Richardson
Toney Douglas
Earl Boykins(Free Agent)
Aaron Brooks (possible FA pickup)

Forwards:
Turkey-glue
Glen Davis
Donatas Motiejunas
Furkan Aldemir
Jon Leuer
Jon Brockman
Gary Forbes

Centers:
Dwight Howard
Omer Asik (maybe a 25% chance that Bulls don't match the offer sheet, from what I'm reading)

Guys not listed above but are on the Summer League Roster:

Guards:
Ish Smith (left ORL summer league at last minute to come to Houston)
Zoran Dragic (brother of Goran)
Kyle Fogg
Manny Harris
Jai Lucas
Scott Machado

Forwards:
Jerai Grant

Centers:
Eli Holman (also plays forward of course)

D-League Rio Grande Valley Vipers Roster

Guards:
Vance Cooksey
Lee Humphrey
Kelvin Lewis
Jermaine Taylor

Forwards:
Marshall Brown
Tyren Johnson

Centers:
Charles Okwandu
Scott VanderMeer

Probable? 2-deep (I'm only listing guys that I've heard of at least once in my life before the day that I read this roster)
1: Chris Duhon / Earl Boykins
2: Jason Richardson / Toney Douglas (I thought he was a more natural 2, but maybe I'm thinking of someone else)
3: Turkey-glue / ??
4: Big Baby / Donatas M
5: Dwight Howard / Maybe Asik, but probably "??"

Surely DM has a white board somewhere and has this same roster written down. How can he possibly look at this and think that this is a good deal?

At this point I would prefer either of the other 2 options that the Rockets have at this point:
1) Being the third team in the Lakers/Magic deal and end up with Bynum. I don't remember off-hand what we would be giving up in that deal (I remember the Toronto 1st rounder, and at least one of Lamb, Jones, White, and probably a tad more), but our team wouldn't be completely gutted AND Bynum has a much greater chance of re-signing.

2) Youth movement. With the Scola amnesty, we finally have a chance to see what our 29 power forwards can do. Let the kids play, and hope that Asik comes to provide some interior defense.

Either of those would be infinitely more palatable than gutting 3 years of "acquiring assets" for 1 year of having a whiny Dwight Howard here.

Edit: Still drinking my morning coffee and forgot to add the players that Orlando is sending to Houston. That's much better, but I think I would still prefer either of the other options that I listed. On paper, I would have a hard time rooting for that particular group of players...but after the season starts, if they end up winning, I'm sure that I wouldn't care too much who the guys are, as long as they're winning.

[This message has been edited by coop-aero-06 (edited 7/13/2012 9:04a).]

You left out the players Houston would get from Orlando.

Chris Duhon
Jason Richardson
Hedo Turkoglu
Glen Davis

PG: Duhon/Toney Douglas/Boykins
SG: Richardson
SF: Turkeyglue
PF: Davis?
C: Howard

coop-aero... that's pretty scary once you put it in print like that.

I agree with you. I'm sure Morey knows what we have left, but to the casual fan, it looks like we're trading everything and the washing machine for Howard and being left with nothing. Why the hell would he stay?

Thanks for the reminder, soup. I edited my post.

We can't be giving them 7 freaking guys and 2 first rounders. I'm thinking we keep Parsons and either Lamb/White. Also, we won't be taking all 4 of their bad contracts only 2 or 3.

[This message has been edited by YESSIR! (edited 7/13/2012 9:07a).]

I don't know if I could be a Rockets fan any more after an asinine trade like that to get some whiny ***** for one season.

I'd rather have a super star and 3 role players than 12 role players.

Agreed. The deal being discussed likely makes the Rockets a top 5 team in the West, which is a start. They then have Dwight to work a sign and trade if he leaves the next season (possibly roll him into Bynum?).

I don't get how the Rockets can ellude the playoffs for this many seasons and fans aren't satisfied unless they have a sure fire championship contender off the bat and get picky and particular about exactly which superstar might land here. They'd rather the team tank which is such an overrated method of rebuilding.

That trade that is mentioned by ESPN is, like much of what ESPN spews, ridiculous. Houston is not going to do that. Here's the thing, Houston has the upper hand right now. The Nets can't Howard anymore and the Lakers can't provide anything of value since Bynum won't agree to a long-term deal with the Magic. If the Magic want to get Howard traded this off-season, which is sounds like they do, then it is going to have to go through Houston. Now, that could mean, Howard comes here or he goes to the Lakers, I don't know. But, it has to go through Houston.

A more likely trade scenario, would be Houston giving up K-Mart (for the expiring contract), the Toronto lottery pick, the Dallas first round pick and 2 out of the three first rounders Houston drafted this past season. If the Magic wanted him, I would also throw in Patterson. I would be very shocked if Parsons was not the starting SF next year. I would also be very shocked if either Jones or White was not still on the team.

My prediction is Houston looks a little something like this next year:

C: Bynum/???
PF: Motiejunas/Big Baby
SF: Parsons/either White or Jones
PG: Brooks/Douglas
SG: Richardson/???

I would be fine going out with that line-up next season as you still have some young guys to try and groom. Then, if D-Mo shows he is legit and Parsons keeps improving, you can focus next summer on the backcourt.

"Sports do not build character. They reveal it."
-John Wooden

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The Houston Rockets have reconstructed their trade proposal to the Orlando Magic for superstar center Dwight Howard, vowing to take back even more long-term salary from the Magic than before in hopes of convincing Orlando to consent to trade Howard directly to Houston, according to sources briefed on the trade talks.

Sources told ESPN.com that the Rockets, should they go ahead with their widely reported plans to release starting power forward Luis Scola via the NBA’s amnesty clause, are prepared to absorb the contracts of Jason Richardson, Glen Davis and Chris Duhon — in addition to sending Orlando multiple future first-round picks and recent draftees — to give the Magic an opportunity to wipe their payroll virtually clean for their post-Howard rebuilding effort.

via Marc Stein and Chad Ford of ESPN

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The problem with that is that Orlando wants to use Howard's trade to get rid of their other contracts.

Specifically:
Duhon
Richardson
Turkeyglue
Big Baby Davis
QRichardson

Remember Orlando has the #2 salary in the NBA. If they are going to tank, they don't want to pay luxury tax to do so.

I agree aggie_acct; and that's one of the reasons why I would be pretty upset if the Rockets did do that deal (as reported). The Rockets have the leverage. Orlando can posture all they want saying "we can wait and just trade him mid-season" but there's no way that happens. They are desperate to trade him now, and you're right, it has to involve the Rockets.

Maybe I am one of those delusional Rockets fans that just gets upset if we're not a title contender, but so what. I don't think you do a deal like this unless it makes you a title contender. We would have literally nothing left for the future. Now if it turns out that we get to keep one of White, Lamb, Jones and keep Parsons, that's more reasonable.

You guys are looking at this like homers.

In the NBA, it doesn't matter what the situation is when there's this much time on the clock until the player is a free agent. If one team is trying to trade a bunch of nickels, dimes, and quarters for a 5 dollar bill, the team with the 5 dollar bill absolutely always holds all of the leverage.

I'd also love it if the Rockets got Howard for nothing. But the Magic are in rebuilding mode and they would get 2 picks out of this deal neither of which are likely top 5 picks in a weak draft. In order to get Howard, Houston will have to take on salary and the idea that they'd get him without giving up any less than 2 or 3 of their young cheap assets as well is delusional.

[This message has been edited by ATM9000 (edited 7/13/2012 10:30a).]

ATM 9000-

Normally I agree with you. But, Orlando has a brand new GM trying to work a deal with two guys that are relatively smart in Morey and Kupchak. Add-in that Howard is such a baby and is adament about being traded before the start of the season, that the new GM might feel the pressure to get rid of him now.

"Sports do not build character. They reveal it."
-John Wooden

Maybe I am looking at it like a homer, but if the $5 bill is a big whiny baby, then I disagree.

The Rockets options are:
1 - trade for Howard, we have the most to offer
2 - assist in the Laker trade and end up with Bynum, probably give up less in the process
3 - let the kids play

The Magic options are:
1 - trade Howard before the season starts. If he starts the season on the Magic it's going to be ugly for them.

So maybe we'll just agree to disagree, but I don't see Orlando with much leverage here.

The fact that the GM is new works against the Rockets as well in my opinion since Howard's really all he's got right now. If I were him I'd be more concerned about making sure I get absolutely everything I can for him vs. making him happy.

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In order to get Howard, Houston will have to take on salary and the idea that they'd get him without giving up any less than 2 or 3 of their young cheap assets as well

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I would be fine with that. Maybe I should blame my frustrations on ESPN because their article made it sound like we would be giving up Lamb, White, Jones, Parsons, Morris, and Patterson, and the picks.

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Houston officials, though, remain steadfast in their belief that, even if the Bulls decline to match on Asik, they'll be able to absorb at least three of the four aforementioned Magic role players: Richardson, Davis, Duhon and Turkoglu. Sources say the Rockets would have to send Kevin Martin, Patrick Patterson, Marcus Morris and Chandler Parsons to the Magic from their current roster to make the salary-cap math work, as well the draft rights to Jeremy Lamb, Royce White and Terrence Jones, all selected in last month's first round.

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http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8162534/houston-rockets-reconstruct-trade-proposal-orlando-magic-center-dwight-howard

Doesn't matter if Howard's a whiney baby. He's still a top 3 player in the league. If it were as easy as taking on a few contracts and giving up a couple of first rounders, a bunch of teams would have already done the deal even if Howard only sticks around for a season.

I'd also not count the Hawks out in this. Rumor is they are offerring up Horford and willing to take salary back. The Magic have more offers on the table and options than you guys are acknowledging.

Howard is so much more valuable than he would have been twenty years ago because there aren't any good centers in the league. Twenty years ago, we had Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Shaq, Zo, Deke, Kevin Willis (before you laugh, he averaged 18/16 in 92), Brad Daughtery (20-10 for three straight years), and others. The talent just isn't there anymore. I'm not sure we even had a single 20/10 center this year.

This year Tyson Chandler was All-NBA 3rd team with 11.3/9.9/1.4. In 96, Gheorghe Muresean averaged 14.5/9.6/2.3.

So when you have a guy like Howard and there are no other players anywhere near his level at his position, he becomes MUCH more valuable. He would have been a 5-10 center 20 years ago.

The ESPN article is just trying to make the numbers work. I doubt we'd give up Patterson, White, and Jones. Probably 2/3, with one being Patterson. Also I doubt we give up both Parsons and Morris, with Morris being more likely to stay. K-Mart is a sure-fire inclusion, and Lamb is damn close if not guaranteed as well. 7 players plus picks for Dwight and bad contracts is not realistic. 5 and picks is.

Also, can we use some of the players we just acquired? I know we need to shed some of the non-guaranteed contracts to make it work, but could others be included to help make the numbers match up? Orlando could then get rid of them.

The Hawks could get a deal done too, but I don't think they have the draft assets Houston does. We have a guaranteed lottery pick and other picks that will be more than any other team can offer. Horford and Teague would be an enticing package though.

A look at some of the salaries we might potentially be taking on:

Al Horford trumps the Rockets draft assets.

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Al Horford trumps the Rockets draft assets.

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Maybe in your opinion. Dwight for Horford and no draft assets? Not to mention cap relief. Not buying it. Jeff Teague would have to be involved, and possibly a 3rd team.

Atl can't absorb as much money and probably doesnt have as attractive draft picks.

Jonathan_Feigen Twitter

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That seems to be the main question, but was asked about the gamble. It's all in. Morey is the guy that stands up and waits for the river.

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^That sounds like a pretty accurate summary.

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Jonathan_Feigen Last I heard, Rockets were not offering both of last season's rookies and all three of this year's picks. Many could be in a deal, though.

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Jonathan_Feigen Very good comments coming in. Objections seem to be giving up so many kids (they're not) and Dwight leaving after 1 year (he might.)

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