***********2024-2025 San Antonio Spurs Thread********************

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Enzo The Baker
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We haven't seen Zach Collins play basketball in over a week. Man it's been good.

Anyone know why Bassey is in the dog house?
Guitarsoup
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Sher Thing
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Enzo The Baker said:

We haven't seen Zach Collins play basketball in over a week. Man it's been good.

Anyone know why Bassey is in the dog house?
Mitch shortening the rotation right now is a little bit of a mystery to me. Definitely not something Pop would be doing right now. Although relegating our second best player through 30 games (Castle) to an end of the bench role for below average veteran players is definitely a Pop move. I like how Mitch started out but not enjoying his coaching work over the past couple weeks. Maybe Pop is up moving around now or something and calling the shots.
Enzo The Baker
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Sher Thing said:

Enzo The Baker said:

We haven't seen Zach Collins play basketball in over a week. Man it's been good.

Anyone know why Bassey is in the dog house?
Mitch shortening the rotation right now is a little bit of a mystery to me. Definitely not something Pop would be doing right now. Although relegating our second best player through 30 games (Castle) to an end of the bench role for below average veteran players is definitely a Pop move. I like how Mitch started out but not enjoying his coaching work over the past couple weeks. Maybe Pop is up moving around now or something and calling the shots.

I think we've seen Barnes' production taper off the last few weeks too. I wouldn't mind Castle replacing him in that first unit. Castle is young and he makes mistakes, especially with forcing the issue on drives. But he does so much more good than bad.
Guitarsoup
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Enzo The Baker said:

Sher Thing said:

Enzo The Baker said:

We haven't seen Zach Collins play basketball in over a week. Man it's been good.

Anyone know why Bassey is in the dog house?
Mitch shortening the rotation right now is a little bit of a mystery to me. Definitely not something Pop would be doing right now. Although relegating our second best player through 30 games (Castle) to an end of the bench role for below average veteran players is definitely a Pop move. I like how Mitch started out but not enjoying his coaching work over the past couple weeks. Maybe Pop is up moving around now or something and calling the shots.

I think we've seen Barnes' production taper off the last few weeks too. I wouldn't mind Castle replacing him in that first unit. Castle is young and he makes mistakes, especially with forcing the issue on drives. But he does so much more good than bad.


Yeah. Barnes last 10 games:

7.8p 1.9r 1.4a in 25mpg
.371/.316/.737 shooting
-4.3 +/-

Only 2 games above 10p, no games above 3r


First 20 games:
.514/.462/.803 for 11.6p 4.9r 1.7a in 29mpg with 2.1 +/-

The biggest thing to me is Castle is part of the long term plans. Barnes is a good mentor and leader... And expiring contract next year
Guitarsoup
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Luka strained his calf and he won't be reevaluated for a month. He will miss too many games to be All-NBA and MVP eligible. Better chance on Wemby 1st team.
Enzo The Baker
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Mike Brown fired. I would think it's less likely Fox gets traded now as they try to turn things around. Unless he just asks out.
Guitarsoup
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Enzo The Baker said:

Mike Brown fired. I would think it's less likely Fox gets traded now as they try to turn things around. Unless he just asks out.
Kings are in a weird situation. Their pick this year goes to Atlanta but top 12 protected. 1-10 protected in 26, then 2 seconds if not. They own all their own picks until 2031 , when they owe us an unprotected swap.

They are pushed right up to the luxury tax this year and have 25M in lux tax space next year with only 9 players under contract.

I feel like they have to tank for this year, but Fox wants to win now. Tank to get your 25 first and you piss off Fox and his agent Rich Paul.

Fox turned down a 3y165M contract and supposedly wants the 35% supermax that he will qualify for if he gets all-NBA 3rd team again.

As good as he is, I don't think he is a 35% guy and think that should only be MVP level guys, which he will never be.

DeRozan doesnt have any trade value, but his contract isn't that bad. 16% of cap next year and only 10M guaranteed the following (last year)

This summer will answer a lot of questions. Next year is the last year on the contracts of Fox, Heurter, and Keegan Murray. Murray is interesting because as a rookie he looked like a great D&3 forward and hit 41% of his threes, but this year he is at like 29% and looks pretty awful. Heurter is also just at 31%. They are the 5th and 6th options and forgot how to hit open shots?

Murray has some value but way less than he had two years ago. KH has basically no value as a 31% shooter.

My interest in Fox would be entirely dependent on what extension he wants. Even a 30% max seems a little high to me. But he didn't sign Rich Paul to take less than the max.

I think it is more likely that the Rockets break the bank for Fox than us. They can send a few young players and a lot of picks. We dont have as much depth as they do to do that and I don't know that I would move Devin, Castle or Jeremy plus picks for him when we still have so many holes.
Enzo The Baker
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Maybe some day Mitch will realize that small ball doesn't work.
LawHall88
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First quarter puts the "ug" in ugly. 3-23 from the field so far.
LawHall88
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LawHall88 said:

First quarter puts the "ug" in ugly. 3-23 from the field so far.
22-11, 4-25 from the field. Keldon with a long 3 at the buzzer, but somehow he got 8 shots and Wemby got 3.
LawHall88
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Spurs 19-2 run, from 22-8 down to 27-24 lead. This Nets team is ... not good.
LawHall88
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This might be the worst half of basketball since James Naismith hung up his first peach basket.
LawHall88
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Is Wemby still on the team? No idea what we are doing here. 41-41 at the half.
LawHall88
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Started out 22-8 Nets, 79-48 Spurs since. This Nets team is atrocious.
FTAG 2000
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Kind of concerning we came out so flat after listening to Wemby, Paul, and others say what they did after the Knicks loss.
LawHall88
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Guitarsoup
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Guitarsoup
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LawHall88 said:


I still think the Spurs wait until the season is over unless there is just a ridiculously good deal on the table they can't pass on. The players that are available now like Fox would be too expensive, and the players like Butler don't move the needle.

I wouldn't mind dumping the contract of Barnes, Collins, or Keldon, but I don't think we make a move just to make a move.

Just keep praying for the Hawks to fall apart.
LawHall88
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Guitarsoup
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Trade Deadline thoughts:

Players considered on the block:

Bigs:

DeAndre Ayton, Portland, 1y 35M left on contract. Motor problems, but double double machine. Wouldn't be able to play with Wemby, but would be a great 2nd team PnR center. Poor Man's DeAndre Jordan from 10 years ago.

Nikola Vucevic, Chicago. 1y 21M (14% of cap) left at 34yo. Solid offensive, not so solid defensively.

Rob Williams. 27y 1y13M. I think he is the ideal backup center to Wemby because he needs minutes restrictions, but I think Portland wants too much for him. They have a massive center logjam with Rob, Ayton, Clingan, and Duop.

Jonas V, 32yo, 2y20M left, but only one more year guaranteed. If we could get him cheap, would love him as Wemby's backup. I think a lot of teams want him, though.


Myles Turner, ending contract. Offensively, his shooting range would work, but defensively, he is just a rim protector and wouldn't work next to Wemby. I don't think he can guard on the perimeter like we would want. He would be the ideal guy to put next to someone like Zion.

Forwards
Cam Johnson, 28yo, 2y43M total, Brooklyn. Would fit nicely next to Sochan as an upgrade to Barnes and can play both ways, but I think they are asking too much for him. Contract is only 13% of the cap for the next two years, which is nice.

DFS: 31yo, Nets. Player option for next year. Nets seem to want a 1st for him, dont think he is worth taking. Expect Grizzlies to go after him.

Zion: 24yo, 3y left at 25% of cap, but all unguaranteed. I don't trust him and he and Wemby essentially play the same spot on offense, with the exception of Zion not being able to hit threes.

Jerami Grant 30yo, 20% of cap for 3y. Offensively would be a great fit, but he is awful defensively and way overpaid. Dont really want to be stuck with three years of his salary.

Kuzma 29yo, 2y 41M left, Wizards. He shoots awful numbers on high volume and doesn't play defense. What is there not to like?

Michael Porter Jr. 26yo, 2y left at 25% each. Often injured, but plays decent defense and is an excellent movement shooter, just way overpaid. Is passing better this year than previous years. Only way to get him would be to facilitate a trade for another player such as LaVine or Butler.

Kuminga, 23yo, Warriors, ending rookie contract. Only gets moved for a star.

Wings

Brandon Ingram, 27yo, 36M ending contract. Pelicans. I think he is too ball dominant to fit on the Spurs and doesn't have enough of a 3pt shot. Mostly a DeRozan-type midrange guy. Not interested.

Jimmy Butler, 35yo, player option next year. Doesn't fit for Spurs.

Guards

Cam Thomas: 23yo RFA next year. He can light it up, but plays no defense. I think he is an empty stat on a bad team guy that will get overpaid. Not really interested unless he is cheap.

Zach LaVine, 29yo, 2 more seasons at 29% of the cap, often injured. He doesn't play defense, but is a great scorer and can be a secondary ball handler. I don't think any Texas teams would want him, but Houston or SA could be facilitators in a trade of Lavine to a different team.

Lonzo Ball, 27yo, ending contract. Cant shoot and is struggling to make a comeback after awful knee injuries sidelined him for 2.5 years. If the Bulls wanted Barnes or Collins, I would send them out to get off the contract. Keldon straight up would work, too. He's a vet min guy next year.

Anfernee Simons 25yo, 1y28m 18%. Portland. He's a bucket getter, but awful defensive player. I don't see his fit here. Career lows or close to it from the field and three.

Malcolm Brogdon 32yo ending contract. Great 6th man, but we need a 2nd and 5th man first.

DeAaron Fox. 1y left wants 35% max contract extension. I don't think he is worth a max extension and Sacramento likely demands two of Castle, Sochan, Vassell plus multiple picks. Spurs don't have the depth to do that.




I dont think Spurs trading for a big name is likely, but we may get involved as a facilitator to acquire more assets or move off Collins or someone like that. We obviously need to upgrade forward over Barnes and Julian with a better shooter, upgrade Devin's backup, and upgrade our backup big. With two decent picks coming to us this summer, I don't think we rush anything, unless something ridiculous falls in our lap.
Enzo The Baker
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I get what you're saying about the upgrade at forward, but I'm more convinced that Julian can be a role player on a good team than I am that Devin can be a 3rd-4th guy on a good team. I like Julian a lot better than Devin right now if we are talking about what each contributes to a Victor-led team. I also think Julian has surpassed Devin as a better defender.
LawHall88
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Enzo The Baker
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LawHall88 said:



I think that's a fake account.
LawHall88
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Enzo The Baker said:

LawHall88 said:



I think that's a fake account.
Oops, I think you're right. Stupid social media.
Enzo The Baker
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You never know though. Especially with Klutch, which is all the more reason to not go after Fox.
Guitarsoup
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Enzo The Baker said:

I get what you're saying about the upgrade at forward, but I'm more convinced that Julian can be a role player on a good team than I am that Devin can be a 3rd-4th guy on a good team. I like Julian a lot better than Devin right now if we are talking about what each contributes to a Victor-led team. I also think Julian has surpassed Devin as a better defender.
Julian is definitely a better defender but way less useful and inconsistent on offense. I think he's a decent D&3 bench guy on a good team. I have doubts he is ever going to be a starter on a contender. Julian has no offensive ability other than spot up.

Spurs need a #2 scorer and we know it wont be Devin or Jeremy.

We could go after Cam Johnson, but he can't create. I think his fit is great as basically a consistent shooter on offense and maybe even or slight upgrade to Julian defensively. Huge upgrade over Barnes defensively. But I think Cam is a #3 on offense. Can we win if we have Wemby+ three #3s and Castle?

Our big problem is that 35% of the cap goes to Barnes, Collins, and Keldon next year.

I can see Julian in a playoff rotation, but mainly as a backup D&3 unless he can get to consistent 40%+ shooting.

I could also see Devin become a 6th man role like Manu since he can run the offense and score consistently.

Maybe we draft a Tre Johnson and Liam McNeeley and we run Wemby, Liam, Sochan, Tre, Castle then Tre, Devin, Julian and whoever we can land as a backup big.
Sher Thing
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As far as Fox goes… I don't know much about him personally but the Spurs should have a good read on him with the Mile Brown connection and Harrison Barnes. Let's just assume character issues aren't an issue..

The spurs are going to have to make a move for a similar player at some point in the near future. You can't just wait around for the perfect fit. I would do a Vassell and a couple picks for Fox swap. I think he would be a great fit next to Victor and I think him and Castle can coincide also. As far as paying him goes… I agree it's a lot of money but with the new TV deals and CBA increases… a max deal today I believe would actually be close to 24% of the cap in 5 years and at that point it isn't a bad deal.
Don't think it happens though and he appears to maybe have some character flaws the Spurs likely won't look past.

I think the Spurs should focus on Cam Johnson. I think he would be a great fit.
Sher Thing
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I would guess Fox ends up in Houston. They have more desirable assets compared to us anyway.
Guitarsoup
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Quote:

As far as Fox goes… I don't know much about him personally but the Spurs should have a good read on him with the Mile Brown connection and Harrison Barnes. Let's just assume character issues aren't an issue..


I don;t know of any character problems with Fox and I do think he has given Sacramento more than enough time to get their **** together. But he is represented by Rich Paul and wants the 35% max contract. I think he is worth in the 25-30% range. I would rather not deal with Rich Paul. And I think teams with guys on Fox's level demanding a 35% contract are the teams that wont win titles.

The difference between having a guy like Fox at 25% and a guy like Fox at 35% is an entire rotation player, maybe two. The full MLE is about 9%. Chris Paul and Buddy Hield signed for less than 9%.



Quote:

The spurs are going to have to make a move for a similar player at some point in the near future. You can't just wait around for the perfect fit. I would do a Vassell and a couple picks for Fox swap. I think he would be a great fit next to Victor and I think him and Castle can coincide also. As far as paying him goes… I agree it's a lot of money but with the new TV deals and CBA increases… a max deal today I believe would actually be close to 24% of the cap in 5 years and at that point it isn't a bad deal.
Jaylen Brown's kicked in this year and in y5 is expected to dip to just 31.5%. If Fox makes All-NBA 3rd team again, his max is 35%, which is 5y345M. I think it will still be in the mid-30s.

I am just wary of giving a guy that isnt good enough a max deal and being in the situation that Denver has been in the last two years where they have to let key players walk because they dont have the ability to keep them.



Quote:


I think the Spurs should focus on Cam Johnson. I think he would be a great fit.

I agree. Supposedly his asking price is 2 firsts. If they would take the Chicago and Charlotte firsts, I am all in. I don't really want to give up the ATL picks and our 25 picks should be off limits. The 26, 28, 30, and 31 picks are tied into swaps. So our own 27 or 29th could be tradable?

The difficult thing about him for other teams is he has a bunch of incentives on his contract, so his 22.5M salary counts 27M against the apron for apron teams, which makes him way more difficult to trade, but means basically nothing for us. Also, OKC apparently wants him and have more young guys they can include with picks.

We can do Keldon, Collins or Barnes straight up for Cam with whatever picks are needed.
Sher Thing
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I agree if Fox makes all nba and is eligible for the supermax then count me out on that. Don't think he will though and I don't think a regular max deal will look that bad down the line considering the new cba and year over year cap increases.


I'm also pretty lukewarm on Vassell. Just not sure he has it and it might be wise to move him before everybody else figures that out. Or maybe I'm wrong.
Guitarsoup
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Guitarsoup
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Sher Thing said:

I agree if Fox makes all nba and is eligible for the supermax then count me out on that. Don't think he will though and I don't think a regular max deal will look that bad down the line considering the new cba and year over year cap increases.


I'm also pretty lukewarm on Vassell. Just not sure he has it and it might be wise to move him before everybody else figures that out. Or maybe I'm wrong.
I'm also not convinced we need an elite PG to be a champion. I think having multiple guys that can create, shoot, and defend is more ideal than a non-portable player that is a very good PG, but doesn't shoot well and isn't able to switch around.

Boston: Jrue and White, ran offense through Tatum
Denver: Murray, but offense ran through Jokic
Golden State: Curry is a Combo, ran offense through Draymond
Bucks: Jrue, ran offense through Giannis, playmaker in Khris
Lakers: Caruso, Rondo, ran offense through LeBron
Toronto: Lowry and FVV, Offense was primarily Kawhi Isos (31/9/4 in playoffs)
Golden State: Curry is a Combo, ran offense through Draymond
Golden State: Curry is a Combo, ran offense through Draymond
Cleveland: Kyrie, offense ran through LeBron
Golden State: Curry is a Combo, ran offense through Draymond
Beautiful Game Spurs: Diaw led in assists in Finals, No one had over 5apg in the playoffs
Heat: Mario CHalmers. Offense ran through LeBron and Wade
Heat: Mario CHalmers. Offense ran through LeBron and Wade
Mavs: post-prime Kidd and JJ Barea. Dirk ISOs for days.
Lakers: Derek Fisher, ran through Kobe and Gasol

We just need more shooters and creators. We don't necessarily need a prime Chris Paul, and if you look at the true PGs in the Finals, maybe you argue Parker in 07 was an elite PG, but I think the last true elite PG to win the Finals was Isiah Thomas.

We are 17th in offense and 13th in defense.

20th in 3pt%
14th in 2pt%
8th in APG (we were 2nd last year)
17th in turnovers

The study from The Athletic I posted last year said a championship team needs an MVP candidate, a top 20ish player, a top 40-50ish player and five solid role players and you need the POA, wing, rim protection defenders with overall good to elite team defense.

I think Wemby is already pushing into that top 5 category. We just need shooters around him so he can work down low when his 3pt shot isn't hitting.

We need our #2 star that is All-NBA or borderline.

I last year I thought that Devin would be able to become that borderline top 40/50 All-Star player, but I have less confidence this year. I do think if we found another good SG, he would be a really elite 2nd team/6th man Combo. He seems to be more comfortable with the ball in his hands. But he may be a 4th option guy instead of a 3rd. We really need him to put together some healthy seasons and be able to defend as the #3 option better.

I think Sochan has the ability to become a top 40-50 guy. This year he is putting up 15/9/3 and playing high end defense and most importantly, he is taking the ball up quick and not hesitating. His FG% has jumped from 44% to 54% this year. He is making 72% of his shots at the rim and 33% of his corner threes. He's pretty much useless anywhere else on the court, though. He is top 15 in offensive rebounds. Being the 2nd team center right now should give him some more time to develop his game.

Julian has a great body and when he is hot, a deadly shot. He was 5/7 from three the other night in the 4th quarter... before literally giving the game away by doing something other than shoot theres. Long-term, I think he has a good spot in the rotation as a D&3 wing, but I don't think he should be a starter on a championship team. He is hitting 43% on corner threes.

Castle is showing a lot of promise, and I hope Mitch gets him more minutes so he can get those reps in. I think he can easily be a 15/5/5 guy and All-Defense guy on defense. We just need him to be able to hit threes as well. He is actually hitting 39% on corner threes, but he only takes 11% of his threes from the corner. Castle is shooting 60% a the rim and 33% or worse everywhere else on the floor... except the corner three. He has a lot of development to do, but I think he gets there.

I still like Tre Jones as a backup PG and think we extend him to a reasonable contract again. He won't win us games, but he won't lose them either.

I don't see a long term fit in the playoff rotation for Keldon, Bassey, Barnes, Branham, Wesley, etc.

Wesley could feasibly develop into a player, but he can't shoot and how many PGs are we going to carry that can't shoot? I love his energy and speed, so there is always a place for that at the end of the bench.

Done with Branham. Just send him out in whatever trade happens.

Barnes is a great teammate and leader, and I think his presence has helped teach the younger guys a lot. But he doesn't have a long term spot. He has 1 more year at 18M.

Bassey is like Wesley, he plays hard, he scoops up rebounds and will be a lob threat and does a good job protecting the rim, but he is completely incapable of playing in a set offense. He's completely lost. Great end of the bench guy when you need a guy to hustle and grind, but I don't think he is ever going to understand how to work in the offense. That just isn't in him. But for end of the bench, have him and Wesley running transition for a few minutes could be really good.

Collins has had every opportunity to not suck. Man that contract looks bad. 18M next year.

Mamu is a good rebounder and passer, and has even hit threes at a high rate in the few minutes he plays. Worth keeping for the body, but he isn't a backup big. He's a depth guy.

Playoff rotation long term:

C: Wemby. #1 option; Rim protector
F: ??? Needs to be decent defender, great shooter, hopefully can create, #2 option?
F: Sochan. Screener, cutter, rollman, rebounder on offense. Wing or POA defender on defense.
G: Vassell. #3 option, shooter, PRBH; 3rd wing defender
G: Castle. Inverted PnR screener/rollman with Wemby; secondary ballhandler; POA defender

Bench:

Big: ??? Need a Rob Williams type 15-25mpg guy that can run PnR and protect the rim
Wing: Julian. D&3. Wouldn't mind upgrading him, but his value is super high.
Guard: ??? - need a high level guy here that can rotate with Vassell.
PG: Tre Jones

Cam Johnson is probably the best player available that fits our needs. But they want 2 firsts for him and he turns 29 in March. He is putting up 19.5/4/3 on 49/43 shooting but on a bad team. He's maybe Julian level on defense. Mostly a spot/movement shooter on offense. Maybe poor man's MPJ. Is he really a top 50 guy? He at least gives us the shooting forward we desperately need and he passes well enough to work in the offense.

Backup big needs to be Rob Williams or someone similar. Rob's just never healthy. But his fit would be impeccable. Maybe Kevon Looney if he is included in a GSW trade. Capela is a free agent after this year and Atl is letting him go. Wouldn't mind him for that 15mpg role.

Nice thing about Castle is I think he will be able to rotate through 1-3 positions once everything starts clicking.
Guitarsoup
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We are projected to have about 18MM in cap space. MLE is 12-13. Free agents are Chris Paul, Tre Jones, Mamu and Bassey. Barnes, Collins, Sochan, Wesley, Branham will be on ending contracts so we expect to have massive cap space in summer 26 before extensions start kicking in (which is why Devin and Keldon's contracts drop then)

2025 Free Agents that fit our needs:

Backup Big:

Brook Lopez. He is old but still a great rim protector. He's actually playing 32mp. May not want to take a 15mpg job when he should be locking up his last contract.

Clint Capela. He's a 23mpg guy for ATL and still putting up 10/9. Roll man, rim defender, rebounder. They have tried to trade him for a couple years with no luck. Getting him for the MLE would be perfect.

Al Hortford. I would be shocked if the Celtics didnt keep him.

Kevon Looney.

Luke Kornet. Would love this pickup. He's from the Denton area, too. Assume Boston wants to keep him for the same reason I would like to pick him up.



Forwards:

Khris Middleton. Actually older than Barnes, but also more effective when healthy, which seems to be not very often

John Collins. Still an awful defender, can't pass, but hitting 52/42 this year and rebounding pretty good.

Duncan Robinson. Can opt out of his $20M but I dont expect him to. High variability as a movement shooter. Elite Spurs name. No defense.

DFS. High level D&3. What I wish Julian could be. But expect him to stay in LA.

Bobby Portis. Offensively would fit well, defensively... at least he would have Wemby and Sochan next to him.

Justin Champagnie. Cornering the market on Champagnies wouldnt be a bad idea.

Ben Simmons. How bad could it be for a vet minimum?



Guards:

Malcolm Brgodon. Would be that high level 6th man that could fill in for Devin.

Bruce Brown. High level glue guy on the Nuggets championship team.

Lonzo Ball. Wouldn't mind giving him a vet min to see if he could play 3rd string PG.

Caris LaVert. I think he would be a really good combo to put in with Devin. Could start or be 6th man. Playing good defense and passing well in Cleveland. Hitting 47% of his threes this year.

Dennis Schroeder.

NAW. Nice to steal a solid D&3 backup guard from Minnesota.

Tyus Jones: Way worse defensive player than his brother, way better offensive player.

jteagle
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