John knew Lori would spill the beans to Mare very quickly which is why he told her it was Billy who killed Erin and is DJ's father. John is both.
*** MARE OF EASTTOWN *** (HBO Limited Series)
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Last: 1 mo ago by AJ02
And the receipt had no first name, so from a storytelling aspect it conveniently does not break the Billy ruse just yet
The preview shows the name of the person the police .38 revolver belonged to when he was a detective. IMDB doing some trickery with how his first name is spelled in other episode until the last one.
I don't think it is as clean as Billy did it or John did it. I do think Billy did it, but John knows his confession would lead to his guilt in a bigger picture....probably a sex ring involving a lot of people. Could the picture be of Potts, Billy,, John and Kenny?
Why would it be john? His affair was still on going & the girl is dead. The timeline doesn't match up with the "our little secret" scene where Lori is eavesdropping. She also asked Ryan after the school fight and he indicated that it was the same girl too.
Who knows how many women he's screwed around with. He got busted with the one for a 2nd time by his kid, but it doesn't mean she's the only one.
Back to Billy's comment about John not being able to keep his dick in his pants and not ever being accountable. It's a "this comment is broader than you think it is" nugget. He's got a 12 pack about to drink his woes away about a situation he feels Billy put him in
Back to Billy's comment about John not being able to keep his dick in his pants and not ever being accountable. It's a "this comment is broader than you think it is" nugget. He's got a 12 pack about to drink his woes away about a situation he feels Billy put him in
Sheesh, I don't have anything to add, but what an addicting show. So good.
I think both John & Billy were screwing Erin. The picture the captain got was maybe John and Erin in an intimate position? And right up until the end, when John's dad asked him if he was having an affair, John would never admit it. So I still think this current "affair" isn't actually going to turn out to be an affair. The kid thinks his dad is having an affair again, but he's up to something else.
Billy gave Erin the locket because he fell hard for her, her feelings were not reciprocated (which is why she tried to return it), Billy is now a scorned lover and killed Erin out of jealousy? Rage? So Billy could still have killed her, but John still very much did something with her that he doesn't want to come to light. That's why he's going to try to kill Billy before Billy can confess. So the whole truth doesn't come out about how he had sex with his underage cousin while he was married to Lori.
Billy gave Erin the locket because he fell hard for her, her feelings were not reciprocated (which is why she tried to return it), Billy is now a scorned lover and killed Erin out of jealousy? Rage? So Billy could still have killed her, but John still very much did something with her that he doesn't want to come to light. That's why he's going to try to kill Billy before Billy can confess. So the whole truth doesn't come out about how he had sex with his underage cousin while he was married to Lori.
As for the three teenagersstill might not be at all involved with the Erin murder. Perhaps they're involved with the other girls' kidnapping. Maybe running a side hustle with high school girls as prostitutes? And erin knew about it which is why they had to find her diaries and burn them?
tk for tu juan said:
The preview shows the name of the person the police .38 revolver belonged to when he was a detective. IMDB doing some trickery with how his first name is spelled in other episode until the last one.
interesting.
In that same shot you can see the room in the reflection, the room where that gun is now. I don't recognize it tough.
Also side note - Siobahn seemed to have everything so put together until this episode.
Honestly that makes me highly suspect of her now. Some deep issues there which you would expect but she hid it for so long. She resents mom obviously. And the drugs. She could have been involved in whatever Dylan et al are doing.
Also......the focus in that picture Mare was looking at from the lake trip was focused on Erin and Billy at the table staring at her.
But there was a third person standing behind Billy and facing away with a #4 Eagles jersey on.
Could be that person is who is in the other photo the police chief saw. All the Ross's were really evasive about who all was on this trip.
It seems like they're setting up for the following:
John was the one in a relationship with Erin, and he's the father of her baby
For a reason that's not entirely clear (but probably because Erin demanded money for the ear surgery or she'd go public), one of the brothers killed her. I tend to think Billy actually did it because of what we know so far, and John has a pretty good alibi with the engagement party. If this is what happened John was in on the plot though. And there's no reason at this point to believe Billy would be willing to take the fall for murder if he didn't actually kill her.
John is planning on killing Billy, blaming everything on him and making it look like a suicide. He told his wife it was all Billy because he knew she'd tell Mare and that would be the only way she'd hear the story before Billy was found dead in his plan.
I suspect John is the one in the picture, and this is why the writers were ambiguous with only going the last name on the jewelry purchase recipe.
Dylan is probably just trying to destroy all evidence of the father's identity so he and his parents can keep the baby.
I've loved the show thus far, but one MAJOR plot hole if the story plays out this way is that the paternity test would have already told the police that Erin and her baby's father were related. They're second degree cousins, and the test would easily ascertain the parents were closely related. They wouldn't know who, but given everything else Erin's dad and John/Billy would be the only real suspects at that point.
John was the one in a relationship with Erin, and he's the father of her baby
For a reason that's not entirely clear (but probably because Erin demanded money for the ear surgery or she'd go public), one of the brothers killed her. I tend to think Billy actually did it because of what we know so far, and John has a pretty good alibi with the engagement party. If this is what happened John was in on the plot though. And there's no reason at this point to believe Billy would be willing to take the fall for murder if he didn't actually kill her.
John is planning on killing Billy, blaming everything on him and making it look like a suicide. He told his wife it was all Billy because he knew she'd tell Mare and that would be the only way she'd hear the story before Billy was found dead in his plan.
I suspect John is the one in the picture, and this is why the writers were ambiguous with only going the last name on the jewelry purchase recipe.
Dylan is probably just trying to destroy all evidence of the father's identity so he and his parents can keep the baby.
I've loved the show thus far, but one MAJOR plot hole if the story plays out this way is that the paternity test would have already told the police that Erin and her baby's father were related. They're second degree cousins, and the test would easily ascertain the parents were closely related. They wouldn't know who, but given everything else Erin's dad and John/Billy would be the only real suspects at that point.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Great episode, great post.
f burg ag said:
I don't think it is as clean as Billy did it or John did it. I do think Billy did it, but John knows his confession would lead to his guilt in a bigger picture....probably a sex ring involving a lot of people. Could the picture be of Potts, Billy,, John and Kenny?
Potts played cards with somebody...
The kidnapped girl is probably going to run into one of them around town and start screaming or something.
PooDoo said:f burg ag said:
I don't think it is as clean as Billy did it or John did it. I do think Billy did it, but John knows his confession would lead to his guilt in a bigger picture....probably a sex ring involving a lot of people. Could the picture be of Potts, Billy,, John and Kenny?
Potts played cards with somebody...
The kidnapped girl is probably going to run into one of them around town and start screaming or something.
The only issue I have with that idea for the picture is - the picture meant something to Jess such that she kept it.
Unless she knows Potts I don't know why she would keep a picture of Billy, Kenny, John, and a guy she doesn't know.
As for the the kidnapped girl - if the cops didn't already ask her if he was working alone that would be an epic fail. And they seem to think the crimes are unrelated because Potts had an alibi.
Infection_Ag11 said:
It seems like they're setting up for the following:
John was the one in a relationship with Erin, and he's the father of her baby
For a reason that's not entirely clear (but probably because Erin demanded money for the ear surgery or she'd go public), one of the brothers killed her. I tend to think Billy actually did it because of what we know so far, and John has a pretty good alibi with the engagement party. If this is what happened John was in on the plot though. And there's no reason at this point to believe Billy would be willing to take the fall for murder if he didn't actually kill her.
John is planning on killing Billy, blaming everything on him and making it look like a suicide. He told his wife it was all Billy because he knew she'd tell Mare and that would be the only way she'd hear the story before Billy was found dead in his plan.
I suspect John is the one in the picture, and this is why the writers were ambiguous with only going the last name on the jewelry purchase recipe.
Dylan is probably just trying to destroy all evidence of the father's identity so he and his parents can keep the baby.
I've loved the show thus far, but one MAJOR plot hole if the story plays out this way is that the paternity test would have already told the police that Erin and her baby's father were related. They're second degree cousins, and the test would easily ascertain the parents were closely related. They wouldn't know who, but given everything else Erin's dad and John/Billy would be the only real suspects at that point.
I agree with a lot of this but also have some issues.
John's alibi for the engagement party is no better than Billy's. John was at the bar presumably with his wife Lori after the basketball thing at the school which was the same night. As Mare talked to RIchard we saw John leave and Frank was behind him. So the engagement party did not go for very long. This was at the same time that Siobahn was in the woods and she was also at the party with her band playing and was at the woods when the Erin thing went down with Dylan. Seems like the engagement party did not go for long at all.
I too suspect John is in the picture though. But as for him deciding to set up Billy and kill him - putting the gun in the tackle box seems like a poor plan. Why wouldn't he keep the gun on himself or better hidden if they were sharing the tackle box (apparently).
I don't think we know when John got in that night - do we? Billy was around 3:30 according to his dad who saw him but I'm not sure john has even been asked. Lori would know of course unless he also snuck out later like Dylan did.
Here is something I found interesting though.
Lori said she did not see any signs of John cheating this time. What if he wasn't.
He could have gotten his son to see him with that woman just so he would get busted - and conveniently leaving the door to the bedroom ajar when talking to his son so Lori would hear. Then he gets kicked out so he has to move in with his father, giving him ample opportunity to work Billy over and plant the idea that he was drinking too much (which maybe he was as well). We saw a cut back to John telling Billy he needed to hear him say it. But what was said before that? Seems like it is very manipulative but that he wanted to be there so he could continue covering his tracks and getting the story down.
Maybe John finds Billy passed out before or after killing Erin. So he covers him in her blood, plants the body and lets Billy wake up thinking he did it and is just reinforcing it now. The gun is another issue - looks like in the preview it is back in its case. I guess Billy would not know where the gun he used was but think it was his and then finds it in the tackle box? Could be part of Johns plan - planting the gun to reinforce it, and so Billy kills himself with it maybe.
NOTE: I'm just spoiler tagging something here from the preview clip since it is something that has not aired yet technically and based on some people doing some digging on the web.
But as for the actual murder weapon - if it is the one in the preview - based on some internet sleuthing the owner has been ID'd. How the killer got it is a bit of a mystery but..... it appears that whoever was stalking the old couple early on in the series probably stole the gun from Mr. Carroll. If that was John and Lori's son and John found the gun he might have used it and put it back. Or as a longshot maybe the kid Ryan killed Erin because he found out about John and Erin, John discovered it and is covering it up by blaming the loser brother to protect Ryan. Or simply convinced Billy to take the fall to protect Ryan. Lori could also know. Of interest when John talked to Lori after Billy confessed he says we have to keep it from Mare to protect the family we assumed he meant Billy but maybe he meant their son as well.
One thing struck me as very odd. When John told Lori about the situation Billy was in, her reaction was not what I would have expected. She was fairly calm and seemed stressed as opposed to shocked/hysterical. It seemed like the reaction of someone who knew their family was in a pickle, but reality was just setting in. Ans she asks something like :what does this mean for Billy?" If it was as straightforward as Billy is the killer with no strings attached, the answer is obvious....1st degree murder charges.
f burg ag said:
One thing struck me as very odd. When John told Lori about the situation Billy was in, her reaction was not what I would have expected. She was fairly calm and seemed stressed as opposed to shocked/hysterical. It seemed like the reaction of someone who knew their family was in a pickle, but reality was just setting in. Ans she asks something like :what does this mean for Billy?" If it was as straightforward as Billy is the killer with no strings attached, the answer is obvious....1st degree murder charges.
Yes again like the conversation with Billy's "confession" (that picks up with John saying he needs to hear him say it) the conversation with Lori picked up midstream.
John has his hands over his face and Lori looks concerned as you say but her first words are "Billy?" We are left to fill in what we think John said.
I thought the whole "I need you to say it" part of that conversation was odd, made me wonder if he was wearing a wire or something.Zombie Jon Snow said:f burg ag said:
One thing struck me as very odd. When John told Lori about the situation Billy was in, her reaction was not what I would have expected. She was fairly calm and seemed stressed as opposed to shocked/hysterical. It seemed like the reaction of someone who knew their family was in a pickle, but reality was just setting in. Ans she asks something like :what does this mean for Billy?" If it was as straightforward as Billy is the killer with no strings attached, the answer is obvious....1st degree murder charges.
Yes again like the conversation with Billy's "confession" (that picks up with John saying he needs to hear him say it) the conversation with Lori picked up midstream.
John has his hands over his face and Lori looks concerned as you say but her first words are "Billy?" We are left to fill in what we think John said.
It is and so is the fact that Billy is keeping his distance from his brother as they go fishing. It's coming across as if he does not trust him at all. It reminds me of the scenes in Yellowstone where they off people that don't make it on the ranch.WES2006AG said:I thought the whole "I need you to say it" part of that conversation was odd, made me wonder if he was wearing a wire or something.Zombie Jon Snow said:f burg ag said:
One thing struck me as very odd. When John told Lori about the situation Billy was in, her reaction was not what I would have expected. She was fairly calm and seemed stressed as opposed to shocked/hysterical. It seemed like the reaction of someone who knew their family was in a pickle, but reality was just setting in. Ans she asks something like :what does this mean for Billy?" If it was as straightforward as Billy is the killer with no strings attached, the answer is obvious....1st degree murder charges.
Yes again like the conversation with Billy's "confession" (that picks up with John saying he needs to hear him say it) the conversation with Lori picked up midstream.
John has his hands over his face and Lori looks concerned as you say but her first words are "Billy?" We are left to fill in what we think John said.
My wildcard guess is that Guy Pearce was funding and/or running this sex ring and is involved with the murder somehow.
Silky Johnston said:
My wildcard guess is that Guy Pearce was funding and/or running this sex ring and is involved with the murder somehow.
Yeah Richard is still a suspect - seen in the preview loading boxes in his car.
If he was just the love interest that seemingly ended this week. So why is he in there at all unless still involved with the plot.
If it is a wide ranging sex ring thing could involve - John, Billy, Kenny, Potts, Richard and maybe others.
Spitballing a ridiculous idea, but it half makes sense to me. What if Ryan killed Erin? They spent way too much time on his issues with keeping a secret for it just to be about his dad cheating again. Lori stated she had no inclination of cheating this time. The show really focused on Ryan's reaction to the reports of Erin's death. Lori thought John was asking Ryan to keep his secret, but in reality John was possibly making a promise to Ryan to keep his involvement a secret. When John was talking to Lori, the conversation was heavily edited, but he ends it with "can you do it for our family?". Also, during that conversation, she is not shocked at the suggestion of Billy turning himself in, she is quizzical. "Billy? What's gonna happen to him?" As if he was doing some selfless act rather than having murdered an innocent teen.
Basically, my working completely bonkers theory is John is the dad of Erin's baby. Gaslights Billy into thinking it's his. Ryan knew the truth and confronts Erin, killing her. Billy helps Ryan by getting rid of the body. John convinces Billy that the best thing to do is to turn himself in. John knows Billy is too weak to keep his mouth shut for long, so plans to kill him and make it look like a suicide, and now with all the dominos in place (Lori lying to Mare that it was Billy who killed Erin, the father seeing the blood stained shirt, and Billy putting his name down for the necklace), Billy will ultimately go down as the murderer, case closed. That was until Erins friend came forward.
Basically, my working completely bonkers theory is John is the dad of Erin's baby. Gaslights Billy into thinking it's his. Ryan knew the truth and confronts Erin, killing her. Billy helps Ryan by getting rid of the body. John convinces Billy that the best thing to do is to turn himself in. John knows Billy is too weak to keep his mouth shut for long, so plans to kill him and make it look like a suicide, and now with all the dominos in place (Lori lying to Mare that it was Billy who killed Erin, the father seeing the blood stained shirt, and Billy putting his name down for the necklace), Billy will ultimately go down as the murderer, case closed. That was until Erins friend came forward.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Not sure. Probably the same reason we have to sit through the lesbian relationship storyline. My GF still thinks he's involved just because. It's a murder mystery so everyone is a suspect and we're all overlooking and dissecting the show. I think he's inserted for us to have him as a possibility with no actual reasoning. We're going into the last episode and he's peculiar because he's not the usual type of person to settle in Easttown.Zombie Jon Snow said:Silky Johnston said:
My wildcard guess is that Guy Pearce was funding and/or running this sex ring and is involved with the murder somehow.
Yeah Richard is still a suspect - seen in the preview loading boxes in his car.
If he was just the love interest that seemingly ended this week. So why is he in there at all unless still involved with the plot.
If it is a wide ranging sex ring thing could involve - John, Billy, Kenny, Potts, Richard and maybe others.
Not bonkers at all - i said pretty much the same thing above in the spoiler part i posted. Not because that is a spoiler it is a theory but the part i was not revealing related to who the weapon belonged to since that has not aired.
Not a big deal really though so I changed the spoiler tag section to be smaller and only about the gun's owner.
This is how I said it:
Quote:
Or as a longshot maybe the kid Ryan killed Erin because he found out about John and Erin, John discovered it and is covering it up by blaming the loser brother to protect Ryan. Or simply convinced Billy to take the fall to protect Ryan. Lori could also know. Of interest when John talked to Lori after Billy confessed he says we have to keep it from Mare to protect the family we assumed he meant Billy but maybe he meant their son as well.
But you elaborated well about the secrets Ryan may be holding, his reactions, etc. Like even in this episode it was a weird look from Ryan when Mare came over to talk to Lori and sent the kids upstairs.
They have spent a lot of time making Richard seem like a very nice, yet real guy. You would think they would write in something shady about him if he was going to be involved. I do think he will have a big role in the last episode. But I think it will be a positive one. All the Rosses know that Mare is their biggest threat at his point. And at least one, maybe two, have shown they will go to murdering extremes to solve their problems. Maybe they come after Mare to kill her and Richard, although appearing to leave town, is in the right place at the right time and saves Mare.Zombie Jon Snow said:Silky Johnston said:
My wildcard guess is that Guy Pearce was funding and/or running this sex ring and is involved with the murder somehow.
Yeah Richard is still a suspect - seen in the preview loading boxes in his car.
If he was just the love interest that seemingly ended this week. So why is he in there at all unless still involved with the plot.
If it is a wide ranging sex ring thing could involve - John, Billy, Kenny, Potts, Richard and maybe others.
I noticed the look he gave Mare as well. Seemed weird and made me thing he was somehow involved in all of this.Zombie Jon Snow said:
Not bonkers at all - i said pretty much the same thing above in the spoiler part i posted. Not because that is a spoiler it is a theory but the part i was not revealing related to who the weapon belonged to since that has not aired.
Not a big deal really though so I changed the spoiler tag section to be smaller and only about the gun's owner.
This is how I said it:Quote:
Or as a longshot maybe the kid Ryan killed Erin because he found out about John and Erin, John discovered it and is covering it up by blaming the loser brother to protect Ryan. Or simply convinced Billy to take the fall to protect Ryan. Lori could also know. Of interest when John talked to Lori after Billy confessed he says we have to keep it from Mare to protect the family we assumed he meant Billy but maybe he meant their son as well.
But you elaborated well about the secrets Ryan may be holding, his reactions, etc. Like even in this episode it was a weird look from Ryan when Mare came over to talk to Lori and sent the kids upstairs.
He also gave Lori a weird look when she said she was considering taking in Erin's kid. At first I thought it was just a kid not wanting a sibling that did not belong....but it might be disbelief because he knows the father of the kid.Zombie Jon Snow said:
Not bonkers at all - i said pretty much the same thing above in the spoiler part i posted. Not because that is a spoiler it is a theory but the part i was not revealing related to who the weapon belonged to since that has not aired.
Not a big deal really though so I changed the spoiler tag section to be smaller and only about the gun's owner.
This is how I said it:Quote:
Or as a longshot maybe the kid Ryan killed Erin because he found out about John and Erin, John discovered it and is covering it up by blaming the loser brother to protect Ryan. Or simply convinced Billy to take the fall to protect Ryan. Lori could also know. Of interest when John talked to Lori after Billy confessed he says we have to keep it from Mare to protect the family we assumed he meant Billy but maybe he meant their son as well.
But you elaborated well about the secrets Ryan may be holding, his reactions, etc. Like even in this episode it was a weird look from Ryan when Mare came over to talk to Lori and sent the kids upstairs.
if they attempted a murder out there at the fish camp, it failed. we know that much from the preview.f burg ag said:They have spent a lot of time making Richard seem like a very nice, yet real guy. You would think they would write in something shady about him if he was going to be involved. I do think he will have a big role in the last episode. But I think it will be a positive one. All the Rosses know that Mare is their biggest threat at his point. And at least one, maybe two, have shown they will go to murdering extremes to solve their problems. Maybe they come after Mare to kill her and Richard, although appearing to leave town, is in the right place at the right time and saves Mare.Zombie Jon Snow said:Silky Johnston said:
My wildcard guess is that Guy Pearce was funding and/or running this sex ring and is involved with the murder somehow.
Yeah Richard is still a suspect - seen in the preview loading boxes in his car.
If he was just the love interest that seemingly ended this week. So why is he in there at all unless still involved with the plot.
If it is a wide ranging sex ring thing could involve - John, Billy, Kenny, Potts, Richard and maybe others.
I think it would happen in town late in the episode.
All things are possible - he could still be purely good or really bad and sneaky.
A testament to how well this is written I think.
apparently Winslett said on a podcast shes open to a 2nd season of the show
Could is be John's son as the killer? He was pissed about his dad cheating.Zombie Jon Snow said:
I feel pretty good about my Billy prediction - even though it now does not seem like it was him. Damn I was so pleased with myself when he confessed.
I'm betting the picture is Erin and John in some intimate situation.
The receipt for the pendant could easily be John's of course.
But how did John convince him, I guess if he was really drunk and John set him up somehow so even he believes he did it.
Hmmm... pretty good twist if so but it better be believable in how it happened.
One other odd moment that I just remembered. After Erin was discovered, John and Billy went with Mare to tell Kenny the bad news. He had a very angry and somewhat violent reaction to them being there. At the time I thought it was odd for him to react to his cousins that way. But in hindsight, I think Kenny was in on/knew about whatever shadiness was or is still happening. Whatever is going on, I think the entire family is in on covering it up.
Dammit, now I feel like I need to go re-watch the whole series to scrutinize and overthink every character's reactions to every event and every bit of dialogue. 
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