rhutton125 said:

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What movie or plot would be gay enough to justify (in your mind) having a gay character? America Chavez, to my knowledge, has always been depicted as lesbian. Should we have not seen her origin in Doctor Strange because the plot wasn't about homosexuality?

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Maybe her character was hand picked for the movie because she's a lesbian and not because she's anywhere near a significant character in the MC Universe?

I think the critical distinction is that religious zealots fundamentally believe the behavior to be wrong. Further, we believe that normalizing it and even promoting it simply encourages more to be confused and partake in the behavior, leading to more mental issues. Studies showing participation rates increase with the environment are buried because of potential hate. Backwoods thinking I know, but we still believe it to be a reality.

The fabric of your society is woven with Christian morality. I know we like to pick what elements we don't agree with and justify it, but it doesn't change your foundation. It is not a stretch that some have not accepted the continued erosion of this fabric, even though you believe the real world is your liberal Hollywood version of reality.

I generally have an issue with other immoral behavior that is embraced in movies. Heist movies, movies justifying murder, etc. In general they justify it with good v bad, but I would shield my kids from thinking stealing was cool and would not stead them toward wanting to see it.

All that being said, this is a PG-13 movie. It is not Lightyear. There should be an expectation that these elements are in the movie and may be presented in a way that we should be prepared for.

Too gay for China (as were several other films). I would be pissed if I were a shareholder and Disney's agenda was hurting my pocketbook.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dexerto.com/tv-movies/china-blocking-thor-love-and-thunder-release-over-lgbtq-scenes-1867135/amp

Cromagnum said:

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Too gay for China (as were several other films). I would be pissed if I were a shareholder and Disney's agenda was hurting my pocketbook.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dexerto.com/tv-movies/china-blocking-thor-love-and-thunder-release-over-lgbtq-scenes-1867135/amp

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Your argument that Disney shouldn't have pandered to gay people hinges on the fact that its hurting their profits in China and therefore their stockholders, which is a country well known to enslave, sterilize, and kill hundreds of thousands of their own citizens? Can I assume then that you've never argued against Disney pandering to China in order to increase their audience and profits?

If you want to argue against Disney's gay agenda that's your right. But using the "hurt their profits in China" angle is just foolish, because typically the same people concerned with the "gay agenda" are the same people arguing against us catering to China. You can't choose to flip flop your indignation just based on whatever point you're trying to make. Are you mad at Disney because they catered to China or are you mad at them because they didn't?

I've actually never taken a stance one way or the other on Disney pandering (or not) to China. My only point is that as a corporation, forcing an agenda into a product that results in loss of value makes very little sense. What is the upside in repeatedly doing this?

It's a bit of a stretch to consider this pandering though when people stateside don't care about the content (at best) or they outright refuse to watch it too (at worst).

ok, so the next MCU movie is what, Wakanda Forever? can we go ahead and start the following two threads?

*** BLACK PANTHER- WAKANDA FOREVER *** (Spoiler Thread)

and

*** BLACK PANTHER- WAKANDA FOREVER *** (Politics Thread)

Can you imagine if they re-titled the movie, Wakanda: Black Lives Matter? It would be so amazing.

The Collective said:

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Can you imagine if they re-titled the movie, Wakanda: Black Lives Matter? It would be so amazing.

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this board:

Holy eff, I don't want to contribute to this ongoing stupid debate, but your reading comprehension regarding my post was terrible.


there is an agenda to represent more minorities and gays. they have said this. it is to normalize depiction of minorities and alternative lifestyles in media. They have said this. Therefore, stop being shocked when it happens.

Also, it is no shock when people are annoyed because things they like are tainted by an agenda they don't agree with. It happens all the time everywhere. Stop being shocked when people are annoyed by an agenda.

Everyone go to their corners and don't come back until they have something to say about the movie that ISNT about *****es*, vaginas, or holding hands


*Thor's towel removal scene can be discussed as much as anyone would like

jackie childs said:

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The Collective said:

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Can you imagine if they re-titled the movie, Wakanda: Black Lives Matter? It would be so amazing.

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this board:

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More like.

BCG Disciple said:

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I think the critical distinction is that religious zealots fundamentally believe the behavior to be wrong.

WHY do you believe the "behavior" to be wrong? Every time you guys b*tch and moan about this stuff, and say that it's wrong, you never explain WHY you think it's wrong. And your reasoning can't just be, "The bible says it's wrong." Because that's not a response that justifies why we should all have to live by the arbitrary rules you choose believe in.

Further, we believe that normalizing it and even promoting it simply encourages more to be confused and partake in the behavior, leading to more mental issues. Studies showing participation rates increase with the environment are buried because of potential hate. Backwoods thinking I know, but we still believe it to be a reality.

Again, WHY is it bad that more people take part in the "behavior"? And if your reasoning is that they can't procreate, well, they can certainly adopt all the additional babies that conservatives are now forcing to be born. So it's a win-win there. Otherwise, if yours isn't an issue of population, it's an issue of morality. So what, exactly, is so morally wrong about a man being in a loving relationship with a man, as opposed to a man being in a loving relationship with a woman? WHY is one "wrong" and the other isn't? I've never once heard a Christian explain this in rational terms that satisfy logic outside of religious reasoning.

Further, the vast majority gay people aren't "confused." They're no more confused about their attraction to the same sex than you or I are about our attraction to the opposite sex.

The fabric of your society is woven with Christian morality. I know we like to pick what elements we don't agree with and justify it, but it doesn't change your foundation. It is not a stretch that some have not accepted the continued erosion of this fabric, even though you believe the real world is your liberal Hollywood version of reality.

Again, WHY does the act of gay people being in loving relationships with other gay people lead to the "continued erosion of this fabric"? Yes, the moral fabric of YOUR moral belief system is being eroded, but just because our society was founded 200+ years ago on Christian morals doesn't mean that, in 2022, our society is objectively falling apart because gay people are increasingly coming out and increasingly represented in media. I mean, Christians once believed that slaves were part of the moral "fabric" of our society, and used the Bible to justify owning them. But guess what? We EVOLVED. Just like we're doing now, despite certain beliefs of yours that the rest of us believe hold us back as a society.

I generally have an issue with other immoral behavior that is embraced in movies. Heist movies, movies justifying murder, etc. In general they justify it with good v bad, but I would shield my kids from thinking stealing was cool and would not stead them toward wanting to see it.

Again, WHY is being gay "immoral"? Other than "Because the bible says it is"? Why on earth would any rational person ever compare two people of the same sex being in a loving relationship to stealing, murder, etc?

All that being said, this is a PG-13 movie. It is not Lightyear. There should be an expectation that these elements are in the movie and may be presented in a way that we should be prepared for.

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Being annoyed by an agenda and calling it propaganda are two different things. You calling it propaganda is stupid. You being annoyed by an agenda to represent gay people more is valid.

MBAR said:

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Re the gay debate:

Texags is a bubble. There are people here who have opinions and views that I would honest never encounter in my every day life. No one I know personally cares about gay rock people in Disney or marvel movies. No one in my life has a problem with Valkyrie or that Jane was thor. And it's not like I don't have Christianity in my life. I was raised as a confirmed Catholic and my mother in law is a Methodist minister. But this place is the only one I visit where I get a selection of options where people clutch their pearls over these issues and view them as anything but a normal representation of life.

Make of that what you will, but I seriously doubt I'm the only one here with this experience. I like quite a few posters I. Here and I come back to read their thoughts on things inspite of those of you who are constantly bothered by Disney simply acknowledging that women, brown people, and gay people exist.

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This. Certainly not in California but not even in Texas do I EVER encounter people like this. And I'm very good friends with tons of conservatives and Christians, whom I speak to on a daily basis (despite the people here who don't know me, but are convinced I live in a "Hollywood bubble"). For whatever reason, TexAgs serves as some kind of lighthouse for these zealots, and I've never understood why.

TCTTS said:

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This. Certainly not in California but not even in Texas do I EVER encounter people like this. And I'm very good friends with tons of conservatives and Christians, whom I speak to on a daily basis (despite the people here who don't know me, but are convinced I live in a "Hollywood bubble"). For whatever reason, TexAgs serves as some kind of lighthouse for these zealots, and I've never understood why.

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Maybe your "tons of conservative friends" just don't want you to unleash another diatribe about how horrible they are. And the people on TexAgs don't care.

TCTTS said:

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BCG Disciple said:

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I think the critical distinction is that religious zealots fundamentally believe the behavior to be wrong.

WHY do you believe the "behavior" to be wrong? Every time you guys b*tch and moan about this stuff, and say that's it's wrong, you never explain WHY you think it's wrong. And your reasoning can't just be, "The bible says it's wrong." Because that's not a response that justifies why we should all have to live by the arbitrary rules you choose believe in.

Further, we believe that normalizing it and even promoting it simply encourages more to be confused and partake in the behavior, leading to more mental issues. Studies showing participation rates increase with the environment are buried because of potential hate. Backwoods thinking I know, but we still believe it to be a reality.

Again, WHY is it bad that more people take part in the "behavior"? And if your reasoning is that they can't procreate, well, they can certainly adopt all the additional babies that conservatives are now forcing to be born. So it's a win-win there. Otherwise, if yours isn't an issue of population, it's an issue of morality. So what, exactly, is so morally wrong about a man being in a loving relationship with a man, as opposed to a man being in a loving relationship with a woman? WHY is one "wrong" and the other isn't? I've never once heard a Christian explain this in rational terms that satisfy logic outside of religious reasoning.

Further, the vast majority gay people aren't "confused." They're no more confused about their attraction to the same sex than you or I are about our attraction to the opposite sex.

The fabric of your society is woven with Christian morality. I know we like to pick what elements we don't agree with and justify it, but it doesn't change your foundation. It is not a stretch that some have not accepted the continued erosion of this fabric, even though you believe the real world is your liberal Hollywood version of reality.

Again, WHY does the act of gay people being in loving relationships with other gay people lead to the "continued erosion of this fabric"? Yes, the moral fabric of YOUR moral belief system is being eroded, but just because our society was founded 200+ years ago on Christian morals doesn't mean that, in 2022, our society is objectively falling apart because gay people are increasingly coming out and increasingly represented in media. I mean, Christians once believed that slaves were part of the moral "fabric" of our society, and used the Bible to justify owning them. But guess what? We EVOLVED. Just like we're doing now, despite certain beliefs of yours that the rest of us believe hold us back as a society.

I generally have an issue with other immoral behavior that is embraced in movies. Heist movies, movies justifying murder, etc. In general they justify it with good v bad, but I would shield my kids from thinking stealing was cool and would not stead them toward wanting to see it.

Again, WHY is being gay "immoral"? Other than "Because the bible says it is"? Why on earth would any rational person ever compare two people of the same sex being in a loving relationship to stealing, murder, etc?

All that being said, this is a PG-13 movie. It is not Lightyear. There should be an expectation that these elements are in the movie and may be presented in a way that we should be prepared for.

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Your response essentially boils down to repeatedly asking why the Bible says it's wrong. That is an entirely different topic of discussion, but you are right that it is at the core of our fundamental disagreement. I look to the Bible for moral absolutes. Without moral absolutes, everything is relative in a particular society / time / demographic / country / city / location. There are oppressive regimes and social hierarchies that are foreign to us because it is not our culture. Young ages for sex and marriage, women limited in appearance and actions, anarchy culture where anything goes, cultures which assign prestige to being able to seduce and land your neighbor's wife, and the list can go on. Everything we know about equality and treating people is in some form based on the Bible and the outlined moral absolutes we have defined as being needed in our culture. So yes, I look to it for guidance. In thinking about why it is there, I assume it's because it is at its core needed for the survival of our species. I will always accept and respect someone's personal decision making, but that doesn't mean I have to accept it as the correct and proper decision based on my moral absolutes.

I don't know what specific explanation you're looking for. Understanding why something is the way it is in the Bible is always a difficult path. Why is stealing wrong? Everything is arbitrary. When I start squinting really hard, justifying actions based on evolving societies and interpreting my bible to align in that manner, it starts looking like idolatry and that I'm worship myself and my own concepts of what I think God should be. I also completely understand this is a foreign concept to you, but for some of us not in your real world, we believe this to be critical to our existence.

Don't you boys think we've beaten this horse enough at this point?

Yeah I'm out. See y'all when She-Hulk has a gay villain or something.

TCTTS said:

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You're clearly offended that I think *some* Christians have backwards beliefs, which gives you an excuse to make just as many snide remarks and regard me in the same way you think I'm regarding you.

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I'm not offended. At all.

This is an entertainment forum. I like reading people's opinions about entertainment, even TV shows and movies I don't watch.

I also believe the discussion about Hollywood's "agenda" when it comes to representation -- or overrepresentation -- is fair game on this board, even if you find it repetitive or frustrating. You can't longer separate social issues or politics from Hollywood's product today, and that is entirely the fault of the entertainment industry itself.

My only reason for replying to you previously was that your responses to those evil F16ers are usually more histrionic and hateful than their posts, and I found that funny. Hence the .

And as I said before, I appreciate your insights otherwise.

Cromagnum said:

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jackie childs said:

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The Collective said:

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Can you imagine if they re-titled the movie, Wakanda: Black Lives Matter? It would be so amazing.

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this board:

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More like.

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ok after I initially laughed at this....i kept laughing at it.....so dang good.....

and swimmer....this is for you (sorry couldn't find one with his actual butt not blured)

Quote:

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religious zealots fundamentally believe the behavior to be wrong.

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Religious zealots like every writer of every holy scripture of every major religious tradition. Like the Pope and all devout Muslims and Jews and, until like 10 years ago, every devout Christian of every major Christian denomination.

Oh, and Jesus.

But Disney is for it. Like, Disney thinks all those people are horrible monsters. Basically like slave traders. Because to think that homosexual sexual behavior is harmful for yourself and society is basically to be Hitler. The greatest moral imperative of our time is to fix the stupidity of all the great moral and religious traditions from all time prior to about 2013.

This is so ****ing stupid. I click on this thread wanting to read people's opinions on this movie but it continues to be the same argument. I found it a little amusing early on. But now, just shut the **** up.

An L of an Ag said:

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My wife and I saw it last night. Was it as good as Ragnarok? No. Was it entertaining? Totally!

I agree with others here on the underutilization of Bale's character. Also regarding the premature dispatch of villains that could be interesting and developed story arcs - a great example of this was Dorammu in the first Dr. Strange. He was a MAJOR and ongoing threat in the comics.

Which brings me to my main point regarding MCU4 vs MCU3. The odyssey that concluded with "Endgame" was a story arc that was familiar to me from the comics. It was probably the last such major storyline that I paid attention to, as I've really not followed since.

I knew this going into the Disney+ series, and the MCU4 movies so far. My payoff for watching these has not involved any conscious or subconscious comparison to the comics, but rather just wanting to enjoy an entertaining tale from a trusted source. Checking out the next chapter, if you will.

So far so good, using this standard.

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But was he killed in the first Dr Strange? From what I remember he bargained with Dr Strange to release his hold on the Earth to escape the time loop Strange had locked him in. So he could come back.

Also…..holy crap man…..I just finished Loki!!!!

Ohhh that's right. He isn't exactly gone! That's cool! I'd like to have that whole thing as available story fodder.

Edit to add: Congrats on finishing "Loki". That was my favorite of the series'.

TCTTS said:

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MBAR said:

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Re the gay debate:

Texags is a bubble. There are people here who have opinions and views that I would honest never encounter in my every day life. No one I know personally cares about gay rock people in Disney or marvel movies. No one in my life has a problem with Valkyrie or that Jane was thor. And it's not like I don't have Christianity in my life. I was raised as a confirmed Catholic and my mother in law is a Methodist minister. But this place is the only one I visit where I get a selection of options where people clutch their pearls over these issues and view them as anything but a normal representation of life.

Make of that what you will, but I seriously doubt I'm the only one here with this experience. I like quite a few posters I. Here and I come back to read their thoughts on things inspite of those of you who are constantly bothered by Disney simply acknowledging that women, brown people, and gay people exist.

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This. Certainly not in California but not even in Texas do I EVER encounter people like this. And I'm very good friends with tons of conservatives and Christians, whom I speak to on a daily basis (despite the people here who don't know me, but are convinced I live in a "Hollywood bubble"). For whatever reason, TexAgs serves as some kind of lighthouse for these zealots, and I've never understood why.

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FWIW neither do I except on rare occasions, both living in Houston and Austin and attending church regularly. And when I do it's a random opinion from someone who also continues to go see all their films and subscribes to Disney+.

Also, the effort put towards Western Christianity puts towards "the gay agenda" relative to other sin, particularly with consideration to how often it's covered in scripture, is wildly disproportionate.